red foxx and red buttons? huh? LOL
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THE PABLOS
Tell ya...just started soaking Phillthy's Grom Bx1, which is Grom x (RM's Grom x GK).
Smoking Pre-98 bubba x GK aka BKGK via RM beans as I type.
Grape krush was blah as a strain, but all the hybrids I have run just shine. Guess it's one of those lines...
dank.Frank
I have no interest in Grape Krush other than in outcrosses. I'm kind of over taking any Blue lines and blending them together (as in Blue on Blue)...but...when used properly in outcrosses I can find them fun. I doubt I'll ever grow just a straight Blue again...nor can I find any reason to keep recirculating that pool within itself.
IMO....Original Flo was the best thing DJ Short ever did. I'll take the Floral side of his genetics over the Berry (kush) side. There are structures/profiles in the florals that I've not seen in the berries. To me the florals appear more consistent. Current Flo...and F13...though now more berry bred....still seem to have many of those desirable traits.
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THE PABLOS
What more can be done but.....modify?
What more can be done but.....modify?
I agree with you about F13. I've only grown this hybrid of it in Retardo's Tweedy IX1
...and never really pursued the F13 itself...my feelings being...that after having grown Original Flo...I'd find myself on a roundabout chase for what I've already possessed in Flo. My Flo mom...a mutant low yielding purple bitch...that was done every round at day 58. Resin machine...a hash plant...with vanilla/floral flavors. I crossed her out several Xs...in several ways....and now I don't know why. What did I hope to improve? I must be a conceited motherfucker...sucked under delusion
To this extent I possess very little of the work I did with my Flo mom...I have given away most of the genetics. For the right growers....you will see my Flo mom in every cross she was used in...and will enjoy her. It's not an everybody line....and either are any other genetics....but even more so...Blue lines have a particular fan base.
The Blueberries...the Blue Moonshines...the New Age Blueberries (Grape Krush)....and all the many many outcrosses that have besieged the Blue Lines (with necessity imo).....all that I have done myself or grown out from commercial offered Blue hybrids...all that...over years...and I still would vouch most honestly for Flo. Peeps either grasp her or they don't...it is an expression thing called Floral...for that alone...Short is a fucking legend in my book.
***It should be duly noted here: the F13 leaning Tweedy IX1 I keep showing....is a text book green pheno Flo imo. I'm super stoked to have this girl bred into my program (pollinated with Odessa IX1).....as I pointed out in an earlier post...I never bred the green pheno Flo I had....for me this is redemption from having selected away from the greenie Flo some years back. I'll foundation off this F13 leaning female...I'm pretty sure she is "all that"
I don't give a fuck...if I don't have the genetics...I'll seek a source and make them my own damned self. There are so many directions...roll it on I say
What more can be done but.....modify?
the f13 is the best for finding good shit, try re circulating that pool in itself and it will cost a lot of seeds and electricity if you dont get lucky first try..
looking good bro!
I agree with you about F13. I've only grown this hybrid of it in Retardo's Tweedy IX1
...and never really pursued the F13 itself...my feelings being...that after having grown Original Flo...I'd find myself on a roundabout chase for what I've already possessed in Flo. My Flo mom...a mutant low yielding purple bitch...that was done every round at day 58. Resin machine...a hash plant...with vanilla/floral flavors. I crossed her out several Xs...in several ways....and now I don't know why. What did I hope to improve? I must be a conceited motherfucker...sucked under delusion
To this extent I possess very little of the work I did with my Flo mom...I have given away most of the genetics. For the right growers....you will see my Flo mom in every cross she was used in...and will enjoy her. It's not an everybody line....and either are any other genetics....but even more so...Blue lines have a particular fan base.
The Blueberries...the Blue Moonshines...the New Age Blueberries (Grape Krush)....and all the many many outcrosses that have besieged the Blue Lines (with necessity imo).....all that I have done myself or grown out from commercial offered Blue hybrids...all that...over years...and I still would vouch most honestly for Flo. Peeps either grasp her or they don't...it is an expression thing called Floral...for that alone...Short is a fucking legend in my book.
***It should be duly noted here: the F13 leaning Tweedy IX1 I keep showing....is a text book green pheno Flo imo. I'm super stoked to have this girl bred into my program (pollinated with Odessa IX1).....as I pointed out in an earlier post...I never bred the green pheno Flo I had....for me this is redemption from having selected away from the greenie Flo some years back. I'll foundation off this F13 leaning female...I'm pretty sure she is "all that"
I don't give a fuck...if I don't have the genetics...I'll seek a source and make them my own damned self. There are so many directions...roll it on I say
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THE PABLOS
Roll it on.....yup...most definitely
Roll it on.....yup...most definitely
Odessa IX1= Casey Jones X Cindy Jones
Cindy Jones= Casey Jones X C99BX
Here is one....now at day 42. She has been "Halo Trained" and has taken to that training discipline very well. She is a replica of my favorite Odessa mom I used to make the IX1 (her pheno name was "Mindless"...done any day after 60...I used several moms but kept the beans from Mindless separate..my 2nd time digging in).....a strong branching and very aggressive Casey Jones dominant. Fast fast fast
Flowers....dense/heavy....blasters. The smell is berry/fruit/funk...in a vertical set up pumped with gas...this kind of expression will get massive. Partially pollinated with Tweedy IX1
I'm a fucking barbarian of a grower....running moving hot 600s at close range over a very well trained canopy....no gas....but lots of gusto. If I kept a room of these and added gas...I'd fold my garden.
Aggressive in all stages....I must have aggression....they have to want to perform. They must want to get there heavy and fast. They must be of top quality smoke. They must have flavor off the vine. The head must be a soaring trance inducing head ripper. That is my game. I see nothing wrong with getting what I work for.
***favorite contemporary (post 90's) crosses that have had a lot of influence in my program.
Casey Jones: Grateful H3ad
Strawberry Dog (aka SCreme 'n Dawg): ClearBarbedFunk
Roll it on.....yup...most definitely
Odessa IX1= Casey Jones X Cindy Jones
Cindy Jones= Casey Jones X C99BX
Here is one....now at day 42. She has been "Halo Trained" and has taken to that training discipline very well. She is a replica of my favorite Odessa mom I used to make the IX1 (her pheno name was "Mindless"...done any day after 60...I used several moms but kept the beans from Mindless separate..my 2nd time digging in).....a strong branching and very aggressive Casey Jones dominant. Fast fast fast
Flowers....dense/heavy....blasters. The smell is berry/fruit/funk...in a vertical set up pumped with gas...this kind of expression will get massive. Partially pollinated with Tweedy IX1
I'm a fucking barbarian of a grower....running moving hot 600s at close range over a very well trained canopy....no gas....but lots of gusto. If I kept a room of these and added gas...I'd fold my garden.
Aggressive in all stages....I must have aggression....they have to want to perform. They must want to get there heavy and fast. They must be of top quality smoke. They must have flavor off the vine. The head must be a soaring trance inducing head ripper. That is my game. I see nothing wrong with getting what I work for.
***favorite contemporary (post 90's) crosses that have had a lot of influence in my program.
Casey Jones: Grateful H3ad
Strawberry Dog (aka SCreme 'n Dawg): ClearBarbedFunk
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sounds like you found similar to dj's idea of f13 in flo anyway, so no losing out for you..i still think the new flo is not what i want in it..shoudlnt get herms from f1's so easy, but genes dont express the same everywhere..the taste is lacking for sure..a specimen from flo x jacks cleaner x flo is still my favourite tasting/smelling weed so i know this new flo aint a patch on the old...sunycheba made some good x's with black russian, and had the vision to use a nepal tasting flo too..
dj gear is an aquired taste, in product and production the gig aint for everyone...one of two f13's i keep is such a pita, but is real good smoke..im holding out on the f13's in the hope of a bx to oaxacan.
mvtf looks like a very good option for filling jars with heavy buds, whats the nose like?....
dj gear is an aquired taste, in product and production the gig aint for everyone...one of two f13's i keep is such a pita, but is real good smoke..im holding out on the f13's in the hope of a bx to oaxacan.
mvtf looks like a very good option for filling jars with heavy buds, whats the nose like?....
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THE PABLOS
sounds like you found similar to dj's idea of f13 in flo anyway, so no losing out for you..i still think the new flo is not what i want in it..shoudlnt get herms from f1's so easy, but genes dont express the same everywhere..the taste is lacking for sure..a specimen from flo x jacks cleaner x flo is still my favourite tasting/smelling weed so i know this new flo aint a patch on the old...sunycheba made some good x's with black russian, and had the vision to use a nepal tasting flo too..
dj gear is an aquired taste, in product and production the gig aint for everyone...one of two f13's i keep is such a pita, but is real good smoke..im holding out on the f13's in the hope of a bx to oaxacan.
mvtf looks like a very good option for filling jars with heavy buds, whats the nose like?....
So I'm smoking blended joints of Prudence Highland and the BBS pheno of Cleveland Sage (100some day flower).....I'd have to say the high has some old skool belch to it. Fine uppity head...flavors of berry fruit and that old skool sativa taste.
so much in that blend: My Flo mom, Highland Mex, Blueberry, Querkle, Chem DD, Grape Krush, Kali Mist...etc etc...the shit gets deep pretty quick when flipping through crosses. The list of genetics I used to make these productions is vague to even me...without researching back to what was done. I like blending joints though...art form in itself.
Sounds all kind of mutt-like...but in reality mutts become their own thing after a while. I look at crossing my favorite stuff as having a never ending supply of quality bagseeds....find the plants I used to propagate my pathway...all the time. I never seem to lose touch with them....they like to stop back by.
I'm working on being able to select via just looking at a handful of beans (out of a given batch)...and finding the ones I'm looking for. Of the notion that beans have habit. It is not as far fetched as it sounds.
****MVTF X Grape Krush aroma increases notably as they flush. Grapey aromas with musk..not sweet. So subjective on aroma....but yup they all are objectively going to yield well. It's another cross made by Retardo. I'm spinning some of his crosses at the moment.
I wouldn't put Flo near the top in flavor. I found it lacking in regard to directness...but if one is key to the subtle undertones as well as subtle heads...that's where Flo shines. For sure not in your face. I think it's about the function of the head that makes Flo desirable.
I've been blessed with nice plants....I don't take that lightly...but I have put in a lot of time/effort overall. The beans I found my Flo mom in...were older Dutch Passions...and I went on a mission to get them. Sometimes it works out....for a while anyway...then I must move on. I remember the trip to get the beans....
EDIT: I think I had some Black Russian (is it in Purple Bastard?) in Purple Bastard Haze...not sure...but those PBHs are killer tasting plants. I'll have to get back in there...find the non Haze leaner again....Hazes as much as I like them...don't work as well in my garden. I'd like to grow/work with Black Russian....so selecting toward the Purple Bastard I find reasonable.
"Grapey aromas with musk - not sweet."
That is the heavy influence from RM's male for certain. I've run three of his lines with the GK daddy. Couldn't describe the smell any more perfect! I'm weird about it too / on the fence. Makes me look twice for any old or PM ...lol. But can't ignore the quality.
Love your chaotic focus! Forward march.
Odessa Ix1 coming to the bay maybe???
dank.Frank
That is the heavy influence from RM's male for certain. I've run three of his lines with the GK daddy. Couldn't describe the smell any more perfect! I'm weird about it too / on the fence. Makes me look twice for any old or PM ...lol. But can't ignore the quality.
Love your chaotic focus! Forward march.
Odessa Ix1 coming to the bay maybe???
dank.Frank
yeah man, the purp bastard was black russian progeny...made by jaws i think.
i like the idea of making a gene pool instead of just making x's and lines, always wanted to do that...at present id like to make reproductions of the pure lines in the fridge, and at the same time back up my female clones with pollen donors i think will combine well, the blue lines to oaxacan, the deep congo to congo x ciskai and the same using x18 as the pollen source...looking to the future and making the most of now..
the recombination of the mixed bag genepools is staggering, id like to do a version using colombian, african, mexican, nepalese and indian sativas to see what would come of it, i feel that the majority of landrace share lineage as they travel from india across africa to south america..that particular journey that the species made is a subject that i think about a lot..
some of the old flo were real skunky and left a great meaty smell in the room after tokin..thats what i was basing the taste on..
keep u the good work.
i like the idea of making a gene pool instead of just making x's and lines, always wanted to do that...at present id like to make reproductions of the pure lines in the fridge, and at the same time back up my female clones with pollen donors i think will combine well, the blue lines to oaxacan, the deep congo to congo x ciskai and the same using x18 as the pollen source...looking to the future and making the most of now..
the recombination of the mixed bag genepools is staggering, id like to do a version using colombian, african, mexican, nepalese and indian sativas to see what would come of it, i feel that the majority of landrace share lineage as they travel from india across africa to south america..that particular journey that the species made is a subject that i think about a lot..
some of the old flo were real skunky and left a great meaty smell in the room after tokin..thats what i was basing the taste on..
keep u the good work.
T
THE PABLOS
"Grapey aromas with musk - not sweet."
That is the heavy influence from RM's male for certain. I've run three of his lines with the GK daddy. Couldn't describe the smell any more perfect! I'm weird about it too / on the fence. Makes me look twice for any old or PM ...lol. But can't ignore the quality.
Love your chaotic focus! Forward march.
Odessa Ix1 coming to the bay maybe???
dank.Frank
Can't get motivated beyond indoor gardening and blogging the thread today...weather is junk...sitting by the fire staying warm. Lazy day.
One of the things RM and I have in common: the prolific use of our Grape Krush males. Pretty sure we'd agree that our GK males benefited our programs. Turns out...as far as Blues goes...GK tends to outcross well. I would only want the outcrosses from the male side however. Really prefer outcrosses where the Blues come either heavily washed or from the Male side...find Blue outcrosses from the female side too hard to escape. That is....they tend to dominate.
I don't believe I make enough beans of any single cross to be in a position to send them into the Bay. Plus...peeps might find out I don't know what the hell I'm going on about. They might find it detrimental that I can't promise results or even what specific expressions were used. Not keeping specific parent plants (as I keep no cuts)....nothing specifically locked down trait wise...it can easily be viewed that I've not done any actual breeding...but I suppose I have made a lot of beans from a lot of different plants...just unsure of what that says.
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THE PABLOS
yeah man, the purp bastard was black russian progeny...made by jaws i think.
i like the idea of making a gene pool instead of just making x's and lines, always wanted to do that...at present id like to make reproductions of the pure lines in the fridge, and at the same time back up my female clones with pollen donors i think will combine well, the blue lines to oaxacan, the deep congo to congo x ciskai and the same using x18 as the pollen source...looking to the future and making the most of now..
the recombination of the mixed bag genepools is staggering, id like to do a version using colombian, african, mexican, nepalese and indian sativas to see what would come of it, i feel that the majority of landrace share lineage as they travel from india across africa to south america..that particular journey that the species made is a subject that i think about a lot..
some of the old flo were real skunky and left a great meaty smell in the room after tokin..thats what i was basing the taste on..
keep u the good work.
Dude...just give me the Holy Grail 5gal bucket of beans made by my friends and myself and that's all I need. Guess that's what's going on here...the thread made to document the journey....filling the bucket. It's about the freedom of choice....no rules...grow what you like...settle for nothing less than the best you can do. Every man a king.....hunting trophies...mapping the routes to where they can be found.
I love me Congo...you got my attention there....I've been playing with Congo crosses lately....have me some lines on Deep Congo that have or will eventually find me. I'll be playing with Congo crosses on and off...I promote the use of Ace's Congo for sure.
That Purple Bastard Haze (limited release from Connoisseur) I have outcrossed and inlined into the IX1 generation. I've run the IX1 (in this thread)....anyway...not many have that Haze cross....and it's pretty damn good imo. The Purple Bastard impressed me in there. I'd also grown their Hazeolope...which used the same G13 X Haze...but I preferred the PBH. I'll have to get in there and mess about....see if I can't pull out something cherry. PBH slipped by a lot of peeps...
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excellent info you shared there and in thinking about it, yeah, that *seems* a very accurate statement from my more limited growing experiences, not crossing, as well...I'm just getting balls enough for that. Pun intended. Makes me more excited to get to work with my collection.
Hahahahahaha...that got a good chuckle out of me. Thanks, 1/2 under the weather here...needed that dose of medicine!
dank.Frank
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THE PABLOS
Common Themes
Common Themes
The Odessa IX1 I'm showing this morning is a batch mate to the expression I showed yesterday. Also partially pollinated with the Tweedy IX1 males....now at day 43..Halo Trained
I've seen this expression before...there was one in the other round of Odessa IX1 (the round bred to make the Hell Hounds) I did over the summer. It is a more flimsy expression...flower meat is lighter/whiter....but the leaves are kind of Casey Jones(ish)....seems more a blend of Trainwreck/C99....I'll refrain from describing aroma at this time....seems to be in a transition. Nice aromas though.
Looking at all the Odessa (at different stages) I'm running currently...I'm reminded of clones. There are such predictable/obvious expressions that reappear...it's like growing the exact same plants over again. Consistently nice stuff flowing out of the Odessa.
***Simple Talk: A solid mom plant will reappear in the 1st generation of a cross. When brought into the IX1 generation....generally I feel I'll find the momma plant expression 2 out of 10...that's only a guideline...and viewed from my very limited populations/experience....but I'm comfortable enough in that knowledge...that I'm not surprised when it happens...and...in fact...count on it to happen.
*An example is the Odessa IX1 rounds of late. As stated...I used several moms to make the IX1...but...separated the beans from my favorite. To this point...the 2 IX1 rounds have come from beans from only that plant (Mindless). I have enough diversity for what I'm attempting....and all those other IX1 beans for a more general preservation. Hunting specifically at the moment...I would think that progression eventually drains into the specific ocean. Dialing of sights...locking in the dope
Beans from the "Mindless" phenotype: I'm using her mostly for her aggression and size. She is put into the current crosses to add those attributes (to see if it works that way)....
Common Themes
The Odessa IX1 I'm showing this morning is a batch mate to the expression I showed yesterday. Also partially pollinated with the Tweedy IX1 males....now at day 43..Halo Trained
I've seen this expression before...there was one in the other round of Odessa IX1 (the round bred to make the Hell Hounds) I did over the summer. It is a more flimsy expression...flower meat is lighter/whiter....but the leaves are kind of Casey Jones(ish)....seems more a blend of Trainwreck/C99....I'll refrain from describing aroma at this time....seems to be in a transition. Nice aromas though.
Looking at all the Odessa (at different stages) I'm running currently...I'm reminded of clones. There are such predictable/obvious expressions that reappear...it's like growing the exact same plants over again. Consistently nice stuff flowing out of the Odessa.
***Simple Talk: A solid mom plant will reappear in the 1st generation of a cross. When brought into the IX1 generation....generally I feel I'll find the momma plant expression 2 out of 10...that's only a guideline...and viewed from my very limited populations/experience....but I'm comfortable enough in that knowledge...that I'm not surprised when it happens...and...in fact...count on it to happen.
*An example is the Odessa IX1 rounds of late. As stated...I used several moms to make the IX1...but...separated the beans from my favorite. To this point...the 2 IX1 rounds have come from beans from only that plant (Mindless). I have enough diversity for what I'm attempting....and all those other IX1 beans for a more general preservation. Hunting specifically at the moment...I would think that progression eventually drains into the specific ocean. Dialing of sights...locking in the dope
Beans from the "Mindless" phenotype: I'm using her mostly for her aggression and size. She is put into the current crosses to add those attributes (to see if it works that way)....
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Here's the CDD, I think she's about done.
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THE PABLOS
That'll be some good weed Lean. Looks awesome. Some are better than others....but generally I have found there are no real bummers in the DD populations.
yo P,got a thread started to show the new barbie dream garden build...on day three....knees hurt,shoulder is a knot of pain....gonna be a sweet set up...
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=225842
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=225842
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THE PABLOS
Early morning pickings
Early morning pickings
Took this MVTF X GK at day 51. Stanky flowers in the wee morning. Fast finisher? Yup...but her sisters are still going...so...she may just be an early girl. The others will not be that far behind...however.
Forging on ahead...1 of 2 DTC99 F4s that was partially pollinated with Odessa IX1 (Casey Jones X Cindy Jones). She is now at day 40...matches up well with Odessa in the aggressive/fast-to-hit-flower-making-stride....probably another 70-75 day phenotype...so far all the DTC99s have this flower structure. Looks very Thai influenced.
I'm promoting my own geniusjump with the matching of DTC99 and Odessa...the cross will work on so many different levels.
Early morning pickings
Took this MVTF X GK at day 51. Stanky flowers in the wee morning. Fast finisher? Yup...but her sisters are still going...so...she may just be an early girl. The others will not be that far behind...however.
Forging on ahead...1 of 2 DTC99 F4s that was partially pollinated with Odessa IX1 (Casey Jones X Cindy Jones). She is now at day 40...matches up well with Odessa in the aggressive/fast-to-hit-flower-making-stride....probably another 70-75 day phenotype...so far all the DTC99s have this flower structure. Looks very Thai influenced.
I'm promoting my own genius
jump with the matching of DTC99 and Odessa...the cross will work on so many different levels.
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G
guest121295
I can't believe that DTC99 made it another generation and still held the Thai traits, they really look pure sativa.I'd be interested to see if they make male flowers right before they finish.The pollen is usually quite viable and I think the flowers would indicate a Thai lineage??
i have only grown Dutchgrowns f2's made from original brothers grimm stock,had one pheno go to close to 100 days with no nanners in a room i know had light leaks,and after 4-5 runs of it never noted any problems but i understand these f4's were selected for thai-ness so i wonder if that would be a factor....
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THE PABLOS
I don't know man...I have one at day 69...hardly doing anything at all but finishing up. She has not thrown a single nanner the entire run. Her flush has been very chill...hell...once I controlled her stretch...she has just been chill. Lot easier than I was expecting for such sativa dominants. She'll harvest soon...I'll post her up in the morning for another look.
To me....I see textbook (in my mind anyway) Thai flowers. I'm surprised at how quick they are though....they get in and start going at it. I'm looking everyday for nanners on all of them (I have them at 69, 40, and one just shy of 14 days)...and watching them chow down their bottom leaves. That's about all I do beyond feeding and keeping them trained....they are workers. I love rapid fire sativa dominants....that's where I'm at.
They are sweet dude...I'm seeing exactly what I wanted and have nailed them with the desired pollen. I get along very well with these sorts of expressions.
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