A civil discussion on hunting, please.

[marx2k]

No matter how you look at it there will always be a need to kill and to eat,we are carnivores and cannot survive on just a vegan diet.

We're actually omnivores, and yes, you can. You also cannot survive on an all-meat diet, hence that should tell you we're not carnivores.

 

[RED145]

Remove your hunting tools and suddenly your place in the food chain becomes reconfigured.

No,we are still top predator in the food chain,even buck naked in the field.

We're actually omnivores, and yes, you can. You also cannot survive on an all-meat diet, hence that should tell you we're not carnivores.

I stand corrected,we ARE omnivores,but NO you cannot live on an all vegan diet,just as you cannot an all meat diet,without supplementation

anyways,I like veggies with my meat!

 

[Stoner4Life]

Yep. You totally could've done it without the boldface, though.

And as soon as someone goes off topic and attempts to belittle or ridicule on a personal level, well, they look & sound like a horses patoot. Even w/o the triple bypass.......

most of your points were less than valid & your analogies reek of passive/aggressive behaviour issues likely smothered in a lack of self esteem. If I'm not mistaken recently you've probably been aware of friends and acquantances avoiding you and actually eliminating you/your input from their lives. Buy a dog their forgiving, faithful, and can't read, so you're safe there.

 

[marx2k]

And as soon as someone goes off topic and attempts to belittle or ridicule on a personal level, well, they look & sound like a horses patoot. Even w/o the triple bypass.......

And a good example of that would be...

most of your points were less than valid & your analogies reek of passive/aggressive behaviour issues likely smothered in a lack of self esteem. If I'm not mistaken recently you've probably been aware of friends and acquantances avoiding you and actually eliminating you/your input from their lives. Buy a dog their forgiving, faithful, and can't read, so you're safe there.

So, what was that about attacking people on a personal level?

Throwing blanket statements, without singling out any point or giving any counterpoints is easy when you have nothing to actually say but feel the need to reply anyway. Get back on topic and stop hijacking the thread with personal attacks.

 

[marx2k]

you cannot live on an all vegan diet,

People do it all the time and live full, healthy lives. Please tell me what you think is in meat that is essential to sustain life.

 

[blAsia]

I think humans should be allowed to hunt humans in special zones. Animals cant fight back but hunters could hunt hunters easily and with much more pride available on the kill. Wheres the kudos in killing a deer that just wanted to run away anyway? Much better to pitch you all against each other. Far more efficient way to control the hunting and it's not murder as you would all have to join willingly. Animals get to survive and even prosper and the humans can satisfy their urge to kill anything and everything for 'fun'

He does have a point. I have always thought the same. If you want to kill a beautiful Tiger (shouldn't) or bear, you should stand there with a spear, and shield and call the tiger/bear out... let them see you, acknowledge you, and fight or leave. It will never be a sport with only one side playing.

Peace.

If you kill, you should use the entire "animal" for any/all purposes. I use bone meal, a scrap from killing cattle, but I feel that it would be wasted, so, why not put it to good use, and participate in using all parts of the animal. like I suggest.

 

[Aestivus]

He does have a point. I have always thought the same. If you want to kill a beautiful Tiger (shouldn't) or bear, you should stand there with a spear, and shield and call the tiger/bear out... let them see you, acknowledge you, and fight or leave. It will never be a sport with only one side playing.

Peace.

If you kill, you should use the entire "animal" for any/all purposes. I use bone meal, a scrap from killing cattle, but I feel that it would be wasted, so, why not put it to good use, and participate in using all parts of the animal. like I suggest.

First (and foremost) beutifal plant, she looks very healthy!

Bone Meal! I had not thought about that and your post inspired me to do a bit of research. Through that research I have come to the simple conclusion that I need to start a compost heap... how I had not come to this conclusion earlier is beyond me! Thank you. With a compost heap I will be able to utiliize a much larger ammount of my organic 'waste' than without.

As far as standing in the woods with shield and spear you are not going to accomplish much other than... standing in the woods with a shield and spear. Wild animals avoid humans at almost all cost with few exceptions.

Hunting with a rifle is not easy. This is not a video game where your weapon is unaffected by range or wind. As a hunter you have to take so many things into account when you are finally presented with a clean shot. Range; if you dont have a rangefinder(and I don't) you have to train yourself to expertly recognize range. Trajectory; bullets do not fly flat they travel in an arc and as a hunter you must know where your bullet is in that arc at different ranges. Slope; if your target is below you then you must compensate properly for the trajectory of your round, same thing if the target is above you.

To even be presented with a shot a hunter has to do so much that I could go on and on and on. It ranges from mastering calls to positioning; wind and concealment being the major factors here.

I shouldnt have hit the vape so hard before browsing this thread but I have lost complete track of what else I wanted to say here and I think I am gonna go lay down.

 

[DogBoy]

No,we are still top predator in the food chain,even buck naked in the field.

I stand corrected,we ARE omnivores,but NO you cannot live on an all vegan diet,just as you cannot an all meat diet,without supplementation

anyways,I like veggies with my meat!

Firstly, butt naked in a field means you either die of exposure or get mauled. I defy you to state that you could take on a family of hungry coyotes butt naked. Maybe you could survive the deer but some predators would mince you if you did not have your weapons. How about a bear, think your skull would survive a bear attack if you were naked? Would you let us find out! lol

Man cant survive without tools in the wild, we are now adapted to creature comforts and without clothes and weapons a single human is nothing. Numbers, tools and brains are what makes man such a fearsome killer.


Secondly,

I have 2 friends who are 'macrobiotic' ( i think ) which means they only eat food that fell naturally from the plant. they wont even pick food from plants. This to me is crazy but they are both healthy people and they have lived live this for several years. you think maybe they are undead or something cos they dont eat meat? I also have a couple of veggie friends and they seem to be fine too.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Man can live on an all veggie diet. Man can also live on an all meat diet.
Man will be the healthiest on an omnivorous diet.

He investigated Inuit diets, and consulted Dr Vilhjalmur Stefansson, who had lived with the Inuit, and had subsequently taken part in a year-long meat-only diet under close medical scrutiny. Donaldson became convinced that a meat-only diet was necessary for his patients, and began prescribing it, with great success.

Or there is the blog by the All meat dieter 'rob' who has eten nothing but meat since feb 3 2006... He was inspired to eat only meat by Owsley Stanley's book "diet and exercise"... Here are the rules he eats by:

1. Eat only from the animal kingdom.

2. Avoid eating carby animal food, like lactose (dairy) and more than a very small, occasional, few ounces of liver. Do not measure what you eat and do not worry about variety.

3, Do as little cooking of your food as you can tolerate. Eat the fatty part preferentially in each meal first, then finish as much of the lean as you want. Leftovers will keep.

4. You do not need 'recipes' or 'sample meals' to follow. When away from home, no matter if it is a restaurant, family or friends, or business meal, eat only from the animal kingdom, avoid the rest, practice doing this unassumingly and make pleasant, distracting comments if bailed up on it.

5. Learn to politely refuse alcohol.

It is pure ignorance to suggest that man cannot live on meat alone.
I guess the Eskimos had gardens and fruit trees in their arctic tundra?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Grat, but even eskimos eat parts of the animals that people who think they can just eat steak without any other veggie eat. in siberia, just as in artic tundras, there grows small grasses that the animal/game they hunt do eat, and they in turn eat plenty of the digestive system as well as stomach of the animal, you can still see the green in that meat; i rather have salad with my steak if one were to only eat lean meat, it be pretty hard to do number 2 too.

peace

 

[Guest]

It's true.Also meat eaters produce inferior quality JenKem.

 

[DogBoy]

If you research further you will see that those mosses you refer to can only be eaten once they have passed through the animals intestines or been processed in some way. Research the WWII raid on the Heavy water factory in Norway and you will find that they ( the troops sent to watch the factory )had to process the moss before it became edible. Quickest and easiest way to do this is to let animals eat it first. The lack of fire availability meant they often could not eat it, unless it was processed first. eating the raw moss produced sickness which actually loses nutrition. Only when safe in huts and fire was available could they process it themselves. Also note that leather from their shoes proved more nutritious and was often added in with the moss to prevent sickness and increase the nutritional value of the 'food'.

Reindeer are the same with the mushrooms they eat which is why reindeer piss is a hallucinogen. If you eat the mushrooms raw you get sick, if the deer goes first then you can eat them. Food provision in the tundra is a damn hard skill.

 

[RED145]

"Man can live on an all veggie diet. Man can also live on an all meat diet.
Man will be the healthiest on an omnivorous diet."

I stand corrected again,this statement makes sense.I always thought that you could go 90% one way or the other but needed supplements for the things not recieved in your diet.Learn a little sumtin every day here.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

if one were to only eat lean meat, it be pretty hard to do number 2 too.

peace

Not according to those actually trying the all meat diet, and it is not an all lean diet, just all animal... I've read the fat should actually be consumed first.

Make all the assumptions you want... I'll get my info from those with experience, not those with speculation...

 

[Verite]

It's true.Also meat eaters produce inferior quality JenKem.

Its all about the BenJenkemins.

 

[marx2k]

What would prevent things like scurvy in an all-meat diet?

 

[R.A.]

Originally posted by some dickhead

"Now onto the moral issues of killing. I do not believe that animals have a right to life, if we disagree here then I am sorry but we may as well not discuss it. I will not be able to convince you otherwise and you will not be able to convince me."

Wake up. You are an animal to. And because of what you said, your are the only animal that has no right to life.

So just shoot your self.
Peace out.

edit: Hope that's civil enough for you

 

[Aestivus]

Listen, perhaps I should have said humans are the only animals that have a right to life. You don't need to be so awfully uncivil for something thats no more than an error. -k

 

[R.A.]

you listen, perhaps i was kind enough in my first post.

Take your -k and stick it up your "only animal with the right to live" ass.

Your mind is in a state of error. So load your shotgun and do all the animals a favor.

Awfully uncivil??? Stay out of my way and you'll never know what uncivil is. I wake up in the morning only to smoke weed and shoot injustice in the face.

Like you said, don't discuss it. It's not why i posted. Just to let everyone know what a dickhead in case they missed it.

Peace out.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

What would prevent things like scurvy in an all-meat diet?

Scurvy is not an issue for those on an all meat diet...
There is nothing that the body requires that cannot be gotten from an all meat diet.

Meat contains virtually insignificant amounts of vitamin C, yet arctic explorers have long known its ability to prevent scurvy. The average sailor's diet, by contrast, consisted largely of carbohydrate in the form of biscuits, and little protein - weevils not withstanding - as well as significant amounts of alcohol, all factors known to increase the risk of developing scurvy.

Despite the fact that fresh meat was well-known as a practical antiscorbutic among civilian whalers and explorers in the Arctic, at the time of Scott's mission to the antarctic, the prevailing medical theory was that scurvy was caused by "tainted" canned food, and it wasn't until 1932 that the connection between vitamin C and scurvy was established.

I have read many passages here and there extolling the virtues of fresh meat in preventing scurvy, one is even quoted in Nourishing Traditons, where this capacity is attributed to "some unknown factor" in the meat.

In fact, meat not only prevents scurvy because it contains tiny quantities of vitamin C, it prevents it because it bypasses the need for vitamin C.

Vitamin C is required to form collagen in the body, and it does this - despite being described everywhere as an antioxidant - by oxidation. Vitamin C's role in collagen formation is to transfer a hydroxyl group to the amino acids lysine and proline. Meat, however, already contains appreciable quantities of hydroxylysine and hydroxyproline, bypassing some of the requirement for vitamin C. In other words, your vitamin C requirement is dependent upon how much meat you do not eat.

AND...

R.A., You're an asshat for telling someone to kill themselves because they realize that 'right to life' is a concept which only exists in man's imagination. Rights are as much a construct as laws. A deer has no more 'right' to live, than I have the 'right' to eat it... Every animal has the instinctual desire to live, but not the right to... A right is a moral or legal entitlement, are you trying to imply that any animal other than man has a morality or legal system other than "If I'm hungry I eat, If I'm tired I sleep, If I'm horny I look for something to screw, and protect the DNA I've passed along"...