A civil discussion on hunting, please.

[Clarence]

Once all these areas where hunting is allowed are ruined by deer over population and humans building cities and these hunters end up on the streets coz they have no where else to scavenge thier kills can we start killing the hunters coz they are in danger of leaving a dent in my car which is obviously an important animal on this planet. Chevy, mother natures finest species.

 

[Guest]

I'm very against hunting but i eat meat so i have no room to talk if you hunt for food. If you hunt for sport I think it's sick

 

[marx2k]

Do you live in a building that sits in a spot which was once natural habitat?
Do you drive a car on roads? Do you consume produce from farms?

I find it very hypocritical that people who endorse the erosion of natural habitats byliving a lifestyle where most of your daily activities support habitat eroding conditions, want to challenge the necessity they help perpetuate.

Bottom line is... Given the current state of man's civilization, population control of wild animals is necessary to preserve some of the balance we have upset with our population expansion/ habitat destruction, and the most efficient way to manage those populations is thru hunting.

Environmentally conscious hunters perform a service to both the human and the animal populations.

You're correct and I agree. I don't kid myself that I am not living in balance in nature. But that doesn't keep me from forming an opinion on others' lifestyles when it's the subject of the thread.

Do you live in a building that sits in a spot which was once natural habitat?
Do you drive a car on roads? Do you consume produce from farms?

#1, yes, but no one on this planet doesn't
#2, no - I bike - The bus I ride every day does drive though
#3, yes, but mainly local sustainable organic farms

 

[marx2k]

I think humans should be allowed to hunt humans in special zones. Animals cant fight back but hunters could hunt hunters easily and with much more pride available on the kill. Wheres the kudos in killing a deer that just wanted to run away anyway? Much better to pitch you all against each other. Far more efficient way to control the hunting and it's not murder as you would all have to join willingly. Animals get to survive and even prosper and the humans can satisfy their urge to kill anything and everything for 'fun'.

Yay!, a win win for hunters. Unless your scared of course..... Mwahahaha

Sounds like both a George Carlin solution and Spain's Running Of The Bulls

 

[motaco]

well I just have a problem with people that eat meat and bitch about hunters. like its so much nicer to keep animals in a 4x4 pen its entire life, never have sex or any kinda life, and come kill them when you feel like eatin on. the way nature intended.

Me thinks not. Speaking as someone that has almost died of natural causes and I've also been stabbed. I'd take bein stabbed to death anyday over dying of natural causes. Believe it or not. Aburpt intense but short pain is a godsend over a slow confusing death.

Besides "natural causes" in nature is starvation or being pulled apart by coyotes when they find you (you= any animal of example) and you're weak or injured which isn't pleasant or quick. I think they'd rather a well placed broadhead. Sometimes they don't even feel it. They'll sniff the arrow that passed through them and go back to eating and pass out from the blood loss a few minutes later. I've seen it.

The way we treat animals in feed lots and everything else is really a crime against nature. Much better they at least get a chance to escape, but more importantly live a free life prior to that.

If you are a vegetarian or a vegan and you complain. I don't have a problem with you I actually think its sweet some people are too nice to kill anything. Though I do think its pussified and unrealistic about life. But I don't hate on them. I hate on meat eaters who think meat is a chemical process rendered from a factory out of sugarbeets and water.

It's not. Its an animal that had no life, was mated by a redneck with a turkey baster, lived in a space it can't take one step forward or backwards, forcefed antibiotics and steroids and all sorts of shit. But the people that eat it want to take NO responsibility for the situation THEY produced by not acquiring their own meat FORCING a disgusting market to develop just like it did for drugs. And then bitch at hunters for shooting an animal.

its no different than buying drugs from a gangbanger and calling a personal homegrower a criminal. Everybody l;kes meat but nobody likes the butcher.

But the amount of ignorance and arrogance nonhunters have about things they know nothing about and form conclusions about how others live their lives sickens me. you think people like watchin animals roll around in death pains after you shot it? are you f'n kiddin me? People like to hunt because you will NEVER understand nature like a hunter does. Where animals will be, how to track them, what foods are in season for what species, weather patterns, moon cycles, barometic pressure, stealth, the stalk, marksmanship, and not to mention cooking. It sickens me people are so arrogant they think they know anything about something they've never done and don't understand. And then form wildy accusational opinons such as you get off shooting animals. And they call us stupid in the south. wtf.

 

[FarmerJoe]

^Agreed. I feel better about eating wild meat than farmed meat, farmed meat is an abomination of nature.

 

[Scagnetti]

Like to hunt and fish for food and fun. I don't understand people complaining about hunting with a mouth full of chicken McNuggets.

 

[motaco]

I would like to reccomend though as I made the switch.

If you grow weed or keep weed in your house and are in any kind of un-friendly state don't keep firearms in your house. It's asking for trouble. A bow is a much more court friendly item if you know what I'm sayin.



On a different note anyone see this a-hole steve scott advertising gamo adult air rifles to take down "back yard game"?

I was thinking "wtf is backyard game?" and sure enough its this moron shooting bluebirds and squirrels off of feeders in his backyard and turtles off of stumps in ponds with upbeat exciting music set to it. I swear to god if I didn't know better I'd have thought it was a video made by anti hunters for propoganda.

He shoots a hog through a thicket in the skull the the pellet gun and says " I don't know if this can take him but we'll see"

first off you don't shoot through thickets period much less with a bb gun. and why would you shoot an animal with something you dont even know if it can be killed with?

check out the first and third video. They kept the REALLY bad stuff off the site. They probably got alot of angry letters. These are a few clips from the half hour promotional video.

http://www.gamousa.com/Catalog.aspx?Action=Videos

 

[marx2k]

I'm very against hunting but i eat meat so i have no room to talk if you hunt for food. If you hunt for sport I think it's sick

I doubt that the factory farms that produce your meat have employees who go out into the wild and stalk the wild cow.

 

[Pops]

As a young man,I grew up poor and hunting was a necessary part of our lives. Back in the 50's and 60's there were so many deer in Idaho,that the legal limit in some areas was 3 deer each. I remember seasons when we had as many as 7 deer hanging in our garage, before we butchered them. We also raised a calf for slaughter every year and I raised rabbits that I killed with a blow to the back of the neck with a hammer handle.

I was never concerned with shooting animals for sport or trophy, as we couldn't afford to hunt for any reason than to feed our family. Unlike the many California hunters who came to Idaho(because of cheap out-of-state hunting licenses), I didn't blast anything that moved. My stepdad and I have been shot at on several occasions by these out-of-staters. It is unfortunate that people have to pass a drivers test before they can operate a vehicle, but any fool with the money for a license can wield a high caliber weapon and blast farm animals and other hunters.

Due to my early hunting experiences, I was able to qualify as an expert marksman when I entered the military. Of the 60 men in my squadron, only 3 of us qualified. One was from Kentucky, one from Oregon and I was from Idaho. We all had similar backgrounds and similar scores. My three times of qualifying gave me scores of 297/300, 299/300 and 298/300.

I have not hunted for 40 years. I still would enjoy the experience, but do not need the meat. I also no longer have the ability to hike to the tallest peaks and haul down a 240 lb. animal after killing it. I still occasionally go fishing, but it is catch and release, as I don't care for fish that much. If I do accidently kill a fish while bringing it in, I give it to someone who likes it and needs it.

I have no problem with people hunting as it has been part of mans way of life for the last 500,000 years. I do have a problem with allowing idiots to buy a game license when they have absolutely no idea how to hunt, no idea of weapon safety or even how to take care of their weapons. We didn't have that problem 10,000 years ago. The guy who didn't know how to use his club or spear properly became lunch for an animal that could fight back.

 

[Boxy Brown]

I like to hunt tofu

 

[marx2k]

well I just have a problem with people that eat meat and bitch about hunters. like its so much nicer to keep animals in a 4x4 pen its entire life, never have sex or any kinda life, and come kill them when you feel like eatin on. the way nature intended.

What about meat eaters that prefer not to buy their meat at Walmart and actually choose free-range, organic meats? I

Me thinks not. Speaking as someone that has almost died of natural causes and I've also been stabbed. I'd take bein stabbed to death anyday over dying of natural causes. Believe it or not. Aburpt intense but short pain is a godsend over a slow confusing death.

I'll go ask my grandmother if she'd rather die of natural causes or have me take her out with a scope rifle.

Besides "natural causes" in nature is starvation or being pulled apart by coyotes when they find you (you= any animal of example) and you're weak or injured which isn't pleasant or quick. I think they'd rather a well placed broadhead. Sometimes they don't even feel it. They'll sniff the arrow that passed through them and go back to eating and pass out from the blood loss a few minutes later. I've seen it.

Is this like the theory that fish don't feel pain? What happens when the hunter misses and instead shatters a hip or breaks some ribs but the animal runs away and has to live with that for a while. That happens a lot, too. Also, the animals are being taken down by hunters in the prime of their lives, not when they're weak or injured.

So would you like to die of natural causes or be taken out when you're at the top of your game?

The way we treat animals in feed lots and everything else is really a crime against nature. Much better they at least get a chance to escape, but more importantly live a free life prior to that.

I agree.

If you are a vegetarian or a vegan and you complain. I don't have a problem with you I actually think its sweet some people are too nice to kill anything. Though I do think its pussified and unrealistic about life.

I was a vegan for a while. It wasn't because I was against killing animals. It was mainly because of the scenarios you described earlier (factory farming). I was too poor to purchase proper cage free, free roaming meat and I didn't want to support factory farming methods. If anything, buying factory meat that was pretty much produced on an assembly line like Chinese toys is unrealistic in regards to life.

(And then bitching about salmonella and recalls is unrealistic as well. You don't want poisonous food? Don't buy your meat based on price. You don't want lead in your toys? Buy American.)

But I don't hate on them. I hate on meat eaters who think meat is a chemical process rendered from a factory out of sugarbeets and water.

It's not. Its an animal that had no life, was mated by a redneck with a turkey baster, lived in a space it can't take one step forward or backwards, forcefed antibiotics and steroids and all sorts of shit. But the people that eat it want to take NO responsibility for the situation THEY produced by not acquiring their own meat FORCING a disgusting market to develop just like it did for drugs. And then bitch at hunters for shooting an animal.

And it's been that way for a VERY long time. Very little has changed since Upton Sinclair has written "The Jungle". Working conditions may have improved slightly (though not by much if a recent update on conditions in Fast Food Nation are accurate), but the conditions for the animals themselves in factory farms are still exactly the same.

its no different than buying drugs from a gangbanger and calling a personal homegrower a criminal. Everybody l;kes meat but nobody likes the butcher.

I'll go one further... Everybody likes the meat, nobody likes the butcher and no one even thinks about themselves and their actions in regards to their place in that horrific unnatural food chain.

But the amount of ignorance and arrogance nonhunters have about things they know nothing about and form conclusions about how others live their lives sickens me. you think people like watchin animals roll around in death pains after you shot it? are you f'n kiddin me? People like to hunt because you will NEVER understand nature like a hunter does. Where animals will be, how to track them, what foods are in season for what species, weather patterns, moon cycles, barometic pressure, stealth, the stalk, marksmanship, and not to mention cooking.

Seriously dude, how many hunters are like that anymore. These days, like with most things, people go to a sports shop, buy a tree stand, a camo beer cooler, some scent, etc.. For most people (at least around the northwoods around here), it's just something to do.. like football season. While I have no problem with people who take hunting seriously and treat it as an art, I don't think most hunters do. It's a social scene, like anything else. Hunting buddies, hunting trips with the buddies, cell phones on hunts, GPS locators, XM radio to keep track of how the game's going, etc.

It sickens me people are so arrogant they think they know anything about something they've never done and don't understand. And then form wildy accusational opinons such as you get off shooting animals. And they call us stupid in the south. wtf.

Though my opinion on hunting is mixed, you don't have to be fully trained in hunting to have an opinion on it. Sure, it's an outsider's opinion, but it's still a valid opinion. I like drum and bass music. If someone else doesn't like it, I don't try to tell them about 'the art of drum and bass music' and sound layering, and beat tempos, etc to get them to like it or respect it. You don't need to be a nuclear scientist to have an opinion on nuclear energy or nuclear warfare.

Yes, some people's opinions are reflex opinions that are given without much forethought. However, some people have thought it through and give valid opinions. You don't have to have shot a deer to form an opinion.

 

[marx2k]

I would like to reccomend though as I made the switch.

If you grow weed or keep weed in your house and are in any kind of un-friendly state don't keep firearms in your house. It's asking for trouble. A bow is a much more court friendly item if you know what I'm sayin.



On a different note anyone see this a-hole steve scott advertising gamo adult air rifles to take down "back yard game"?

I was thinking "wtf is backyard game?" and sure enough its this moron shooting bluebirds and squirrels off of feeders in his backyard and turtles off of stumps in ponds with upbeat exciting music set to it. I swear to god if I didn't know better I'd have thought it was a video made by anti hunters for propoganda.

He shoots a hog through a thicket in the skull the the pellet gun and says " I don't know if this can take him but we'll see"

first off you don't shoot through thickets period much less with a bb gun. and why would you shoot an animal with something you dont even know if it can be killed with?

check out the first and third video. They kept the REALLY bad stuff off the site. They probably got alot of angry letters. These are a few clips from the half hour promotional video.

http://www.gamousa.com/Catalog.aspx?Action=Videos

The problem with snuff flicks isn't only that there are people making snuff flicks/child porn. It's that there's a large market FOR snuff flicks/child porn.

 

[marx2k]

As a young man,I grew up poor and hunting was a necessary part of our lives. Back in the 50's and 60's there were so many deer in Idaho,that the legal limit in some areas was 3 deer each. I remember seasons when we had as many as 7 deer hanging in our garage, before we butchered them. We also raised a calf for slaughter every year and I raised rabbits that I killed with a blow to the back of the neck with a hammer handle.

I was never concerned with shooting animals for sport or trophy, as we couldn't afford to hunt for any reason than to feed our family. Unlike the many California hunters who came to Idaho(because of cheap out-of-state hunting licenses), I didn't blast anything that moved. My stepdad and I have been shot at on several occasions by these out-of-staters. It is unfortunate that people have to pass a drivers test before they can operate a vehicle, but any fool with the money for a license can wield a high caliber weapon and blast farm animals and other hunters.

Due to my early hunting experiences, I was able to qualify as an expert marksman when I entered the military. Of the 60 men in my squadron, only 3 of us qualified. One was from Kentucky, one from Oregon and I was from Idaho. We all had similar backgrounds and similar scores. My three times of qualifying gave me scores of 297/300, 299/300 and 298/300.

I have not hunted for 40 years. I still would enjoy the experience, but do not need the meat. I also no longer have the ability to hike to the tallest peaks and haul down a 240 lb. animal after killing it. I still occasionally go fishing, but it is catch and release, as I don't care for fish that much. If I do accidently kill a fish while bringing it in, I give it to someone who likes it and needs it.

I have no problem with people hunting as it has been part of mans way of life for the last 500,000 years. I do have a problem with allowing idiots to buy a game license when they have absolutely no idea how to hunt, no idea of weapon safety or even how to take care of their weapons. We didn't have that problem 10,000 years ago. The guy who didn't know how to use his club or spear properly became lunch for an animal that could fight back.

You've summed up my opinion with hunting and the problems with hunting succinctly. Very nice.

It's not hunting out of necessity that I have an issue with. It's idiots who do it just to do it with no reason behind it aside from "the experience"

 

[Boxy Brown]

People like to hunt because you will NEVER understand nature like a hunter does. Where animals will be, how to track them, what foods are in season for what species, weather patterns, moon cycles, barometic pressure, stealth, the stalk, marksmanship, and not to mention cooking.

since when are hunters meteorologists/culinary artists ?

(I minored in meteorology and also took culinary arts and so far iv never met a hunter that knows more about ether subject than me)

 

[motaco]

I think pretty much all of your argument was pretty weak on a whole lot of levels. without going to deep into a quick rundown:

so what the cows you eat free roam aren't taken "at the top of their game?" The irony of that is most hunters select older animals that are no longer of a breeding age on large game and are out of their prime unlike your free roam.

go ask your grandma if she'd rather die of lung cancer for seven years hackin up blood all day or if she'd rather take a .22 to the skull. you might be surprised the answer. look into euthanasia in a'dam. its pretty common.

you don't get to pick whether you die of natural causes at the top of your game or not. When I almost died of natural causes I was twenty and it was from digestive problems stopping me from eating. and nor was I a lil old man when I was stabbed. that doesn't have anything to do with anything. neither does fish not feeling pain. It's about unavoidable death and what is the easier route.


killing animals to eat you say is un natural? and yet you admit to doing it?


how many hunters are like that? most of them. you obviously don't know many of them but have very firm beliefs. and gps are to stop you from getting lost in the woods they aren't satelite locators to where deer are. scoped rifles increase the accuracy of those misplaced shots you're so sure happen constantly. walki taklie are for safety if someone gets hut. You know absolutlely nothing about what you are saying but your adamant about it.

if you like drum and bass music and others don't than yeah. actually you should explain it to them so they aren't another ignorant moron talking about its just a buncha banging noises and spreading misinformation. and despite what you apparently think its generally (at least around here) thought of as a bad thing to have devout opinons on things you've no experience with. we call it talking out of our asses.

But being as argumentative as I am I'm going to get out of here before I get this thread shut down. It's probably inevitable but I don't want it because of me.

 

[Jack D Ripper]

since when are hunters meteorologists/culinary artists ?

(I minored in meteorology and also took culinary arts and so far iv never met a hunter that knows more about ether subject than me)

I think he means that hunters understand the relationship between weather, seasons, and the actions of various species. A hunter knows when a deer is in the rut, how to stay downwind from his prey, conditions that make deer bunker down or move about and feed, etc.

hunters are also very good at tracking. Where someone else may look around and see nothing, a hunter will find drops of blood, broken twigs and grass, antler rubs on trees, recognize different animal tracks/droppings...

and as far as cooking goes, hunters are always very proud of the food they make from their kills. So they all think they're great cooks, but many are not.

 

[Jack D Ripper]

go ask your grandma if she'd rather die of lung cancer for seven years hackin up blood all day or if she'd rather take a .22 to the skull. you might be surprised the answer. look into euthanasia in a'dam. its pretty common.

Im all for euthanasia... but I dont think a .22 will get the job done

 

[Boxy Brown]

I think he means that hunters understand the relationship between weather, seasons, and the actions of various species. A hunter knows when a deer is in the rut, how to stay downwind from his prey, conditions that make deer bunker down or move about and feed, etc.

hunters are also very good at tracking. Where someone else may look around and see nothing, a hunter will find drops of blood, broken twigs and grass, antler rubs on trees, recognize different animal tracks/droppings...

and as far as cooking goes, hunters are always very proud of the food they make from their kills. So they all think they're great cooks, but many are not.

I hope thats what he ment because most hunters are far from meteorologists, also you got the cooking thing right, most think they are great cooks just because they can marinate some meat

 

[marx2k]

I think pretty much all of your argument was pretty weak on a whole lot of levels. without going to deep into a quick rundown:

so what the cows you eat free roam aren't taken "at the top of their game?" The irony of that is most hunters select older animals that are no longer of a breeding age on large game and are out of their prime unlike your free roam.

The choice was between factory farms and free range, not free range, factory farms or hunting. Hunters typically will try to take down anything that meets regulations for a kill. A lot of the regulations also include animals in the prime of their lives.

go ask your grandma if she'd rather die of lung cancer for seven years hackin up blood all day or if she'd rather take a .22 to the skull. you might be surprised the answer. look into euthanasia in a'dam. its pretty common.

Of course there's also a chance that my grandmother will pass away in her sleep, peacefully. Drastic, prolonged, traumatic death isn't the only way out of life. And even when it is, some people will choose to face that versus being put out of their misery at the hands of others. I have no problem with euthanasia, but only if it's a conscious choice by the recipient.

you don't get to pick whether you die of natural causes at the top of your game or not. When I almost died of natural causes I was twenty and it was from digestive problems stopping me from eating. and nor was I a lil old man when I was stabbed. that doesn't have anything to do with anything. neither does fish not feeling pain. It's about unavoidable death and what is the easier route.

So we should all be shot through the head to take the easier route? While I agree that we do not choose how we die, half the point of living life is to find out for ourselves. Remember the sniper attacks a few years back? That caused some very deep-seated horror by people not only directly affected by it but also by people who were afraid to go outside because the next thing they'd know... they're dead. Now, the snipers were doing that for sport. Would it have been ok if they were doing it for food?

I'm just posing a question there. Like I said before, I'm not against hunting out of necessity.

killing animals to eat you say is un natural? and yet you admit to doing it?

Nope that's not what I said at all. Factory farming is unnatural. Killing animals to eat has been happening forever. Putting them on a conveyor belt to face assured mechanized death as a way out of a life of incarceration in a 4x4 pen, living in your own shit, blood and vomit seems as wrong as forcing them to live that way.

how many hunters are like that? most of them. you obviously don't know many of them but have very firm beliefs. and gps are to stop you from getting lost in the woods they aren't satelite locators to where deer are. scoped rifles increase the accuracy of those misplaced shots you're so sure happen constantly. walki taklie are for safety if someone gets hut. You know absolutlely nothing about what you are saying but your adamant about it.

Well, actually I live in a fairly large hunting community, so I do have some semblance of background on that which I speak of. If you're a real hunter, you will not be getting lost in the woods. If you are good with your rifle, you will not need a scope. Hunters have been hunting since people have been around. Personally, I feel anything more than a bow and arrow or a knife is a modern convenience that pussifies the activity. But that's just me. I didn't mention walkie talkies.

if you like drum and bass music and others don't than yeah. actually you should explain it to them so they aren't another ignorant moron talking about its just a buncha banging noises and spreading misinformation. and despite what you apparently think its generally (at least around here) thought of as a bad thing to have devout opinons on things you've no experience with. we call it talking out of our asses.

Why would I explain music to someone? I don't like pushing my opinions on others. I'm not one of those people that try to explain WHY some form of music is good or is worth listening to. Either you like it, or you don't. And if you don't, that's up to you, not me. If you think it sounds like a bunch of banging noises, that's your opinion. Me explaining the 'banging noises' isn't going to change that. People that try to sit there and explain to me why the music they enjoy is good just end up annoying me and pushing me further from that form of music. "But dude, it's so textured and there's so much going on right here ... dude... dude... "

You shouldn't consider knowing people's experiences based on their opinions. Not everone that is against hunting (which I am not) lacks experience with hunting and hunters or the food/clothing/etc that's produced by them. My issue is with people who have no real respect for life going into the bush to take down some animals for any reason aside from using as much of the animal as possible out of necessity.