60 DE Nanolux 600 Coco DTW setup/grow

[coxnox]

very nice show

 

[Earlmarne]

Right? lol. I randomly clicked with no idea it was the same nute regimen I am running for first time and really needed to learn about. On top of that it is done to perfection.

I have been absent for many years from the mag but came back recently and the past two pages of contributors has renewed my faith in knowledgeable and competent posters still being around.

My last couple months with jacks has been hell with 3/2/1. Always chasing deficiencies

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

My last couple months with jacks has been hell with 3/2/1. Always chasing deficiencies

You getting them in flower as well? Greengenes formula? He is who put me onto it. I ran 760 ppm 3.6/2.4/1.2 from clone to now 15 inches veg. At 10 inches virtually all bad signs disappeared my first sign I was giving too much as I suspected from start and not too little). I now have perfect plants but for a very slight cal deficiency on some I noticed last night which I am assuming why Erics formula has bit more. I am switching to the formula here on a new set of test clones as we speak and will report back.

I am sure with the experience here both you and me will be squared away after a run or two so hang in there

PS what lights are you using?

 

[Earlmarne]

You getting them in flower as well? Greengenes formula? He is who put me onto it. I ran 760 ppm 3.6/2.4/1.2 from clone to now 15 inches veg. At 10 inches virtually all bad signs disappeared my first sign I was giving too much as I suspected from start and not too little). I now have perfect plants but for a very slight cal deficiency on some I noticed last night which I am assuming why Erics formula has bit more. I am switching to the formula here on a new set of test clones as we speak and will report back.

I am sure with the experience here both you and me will be squared away after a run or two so hang in there

PS what lights are you using?

Im running 2 solis tek de 1k with philips bulbs with a generic 630 cmh between them with philips bulbs.
Got no deficiencies at the moment but running at 1.4 ec recirc in a 4 site ppk unit.
I hope like hell I can reach a level of dialed the op has someday.
Just flipped yesterday

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Eric2028 veg and stretch solution:

3 grams jacks 5-12-26
2.5 grams caltrate

145.837ppm N
43.33ppm P
178.45ppm K
120.83ppm Ca
52.5ppm Mg
68.33ppm S
2.5ppm iron
0.4167ppm Mn
0.125ppm Zn
0.125ppm Cu
0.4167ppm B
0.083ppm Mo

My recommend modification to Eric2028's veg and stretch formula (more caltrate):

3 grams jacks 5-12-26
3.32 grams caltrate

180ppm N
43.33ppm P
178.45ppm K
160.46ppm Ca
52.5ppm Mg
68.33ppm S
2.5ppm iron
0.4167ppm Mn
0.125ppm Zn
0.125ppm Cu
0.4167ppm B
0.083ppm Mo

Eric2028 bloom solution for after stretch ends:
(This is great as is)

3 grams jacks 5-12-26
2.5 grams caltrate
0.5 gram monopotassium phosphate

145.837ppm N
73.33ppm P
215.95ppm K
120.83ppm Ca
52.5ppm Mg
68.33ppm S
2.5ppm iron
0.4167ppm Mn
0.125ppm Zn
0.125ppm Cu
0.4167ppm B
0.083ppm Mo

When I added up your ppm on the 3/3.6 ratio I got 600 and some Ppms. When I just mixed a 5 gallon with it (15 grams of the 5-12-26 and 16.6 grams calnit) I got 880 ppms (500 scale) and 1.8 ec on my meter. Makes me question my ec meter? It picks up no reading from the straight tap water.

@e's ratio 810ppm 1700 ec

 

[Ibechillin]

In the jacks 5-12-26 thread its recommended to mix batches of solution by adding the jacks to RO water until the desired EC/ppm from it is reached and then adding caltrate until total EC/ppm strength is achieved.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Ok thanks a ton. Does anyone have any seedling advice at all? I have a few damping off which I never had before in soil and coco. Before I was starting seeds in solo cups though and moved to 1 gal. Now i have started straight in 5 inch pot which looks almost a gallon. Could this be the issue or was my 130 ppm Jack's clone mix feeding too much or too little.? I am also experimenting with 5 ml clonex clone and seedling fert at 360 ppm. My seedlings dont look great like they do in my soil. Some have burnt edges or grow little funky in both test batches...almost tempted to just veg in soil to start but the whole point was to be rid of it entirely.

PS sorry to take up so much room in thread as soon when I got the basics down I'll shut up and watch =p

 

[Ibechillin]

Damping off usually caused by medium being/staying too wet from what I understand, the soil I plant germinated seeds into is practically hydrophobic because I fear this happening so much.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Eh I am in coco but add cup of chunky perlite to these testers coco. Pots are like a litre I believe 5 inch. It could be the fungus gnats as well. 4 stems randomly just slumped in the mid section. Got very skinny and dry where they slump so I know they are goners. I was watering once a day cup at a time to try to get little run off....

Did I noob it? Should I have watered with much less like 80 ml?

 

[watts]

Yeah I think you noob'd it 40. Sounds like too much water to me. I have better luck starting seeds in rapid rooters or rockwool cubes and then go to coco once they are stronger.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Jack's is usually used with the 3-2-1 formula? Greengene has done a lot of videos on said formula and he usually grows really nice bud:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUoTFGXfb60

As I said before he put me on to jacks. I used his 3-2-1 (3.6-2.4-1.2) from start of clone to 15 inches. My clones did not like it all from 4 different varieties. I believe this was because I was just going by raw weight measurements when PPM seems to be what you should be going for when mixing. He recommended 760 ppm I believe.

With Ibechillins recommended changes veg in order for me to have the 620~ ppms (per 5 gallon of water) I use 10.5 Jacks NPK and 11.2 of cal nit. This is a big difference in weight imo not only from Ibechillins but also Greengenes recommendations. Hopefully I am doing things right.


With green genes my plants looked pretty good at 12+ inches. Most people would be very happy. I was not however. I saw slight cal, mag, and possibly n issues. The growth was not as lush green as OP's. I was watering 2 x day to 20% run off from clone on.

We will see how Ibechillins measures up in a week or two on new set of clones I am currently feeding it to.

I just transplanted yesterday the original set grown using Greengenes forumal to 2 gallons and switched it to Ibechillins. They look a little droopy light on mag and nitrogen. I watered right when I transplanted. I wonder if I should have just stuck in the wet coco which was precharged with the same nutes instead of watering to 20% run off right off the bat? I remember needing to go easy on new transplants but not exactly what I used to do. I used 6/9 gh formula years ago and had perfect plants from the start seed and all. Hell bent on learning the jacks I have though.

 

[Ibechillin]

jidoka on feeding rooted clones in coco:

need to start with one or two wet to bone dry cycles. To the point petioles droop but before stems do. After one of these cycles do you see roots poking out all over the bottom...yes, move on to daily watering with runoff; no, repeat the dry down

How fast that can happen will depend on transpiration. I find 80F, 80-85rH% and 500-600 par 18 hrs per day...if you have t5s slammed down about 8 inches above the tops

Now you are set up for healthy growth, which happens to be shockingly fast growth

Counting on what is on the cation exchange sites of coco is never a good idea. Inevitably there is too much K, and Mg (I have seen 20% on coco with an M3) and not enough Ca. You are feeding toddlers sugar from the get vs high fat and protein

I start my plants in 6 inch with an EC of 2.4 of a balanced mix. I water to a lot of runoff and then let them sit one day before planting

Remember my goal is to fill that pot with roots ASAP with a dry down that makes Ca way more available. If you go 0.8 you are going to run out of food way before water

When I roll into daily feed I stay with 2.4

In early veg I use lower P by replacing it with either sulfate or silicate. But this is a minor one and you won’t see a big diff

I realize 2.4 might make you think I am an idiot. But unlike bottle nutes you have the balance to pull it off. I would urge at least 1.8

View attachment 480636

6 inch regular ol nursery pot. Fed mostly 2.4 since day 1 in this pot. I tried cutting feed back but stems started getting hollow and petioles red...so back up it went

This one also has very low P. P=Mg=0.2 Ca. An experiment based on fluence bioengineering research that says 24 ppm P is enough. I couldn’t go less than 40 but it is working for me. That is a real OG looking too stout.

You want that dry down to happen in 5-7 days. Move some air to control how fast it happens

View attachment 492818

This clone is in a 2 inch pot (CO thing) under 4 t5s fed 164-30-164-200-30 2-3x per day. There is no tip burn

 

[eric2028]

I run wet/dry cycles for the entire time the clone is in the cup. Eventually though it drys out daily and requires daily watering. In veg I initially run wet/dry cycles also. By about week 3 they require daily watering. If I happen to see any deficiencies in veg it’s usually time to start watering daily and it clears up. I run that 3/2.5 mix from right out the cloner to flush at full strength.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Well, I guess this is going to be rougher than I thought. That jikoda person runs and recommends 2.4 ec with perfect clones and plants in veg and I had burned tips at 1.8? Fuckin confused now. Especially with everyone recommending 600-700 ppms which isn't even close to 2.4 ec Just checked plants now they look completely starved since switching to the 620 ppm formula. This happened quick.



Is watering once a day the problem or is lack of nutes?

Just now looking at the plants I grew first time ever coco 6 years ago with lucas formula GH nutes and I am starting to get frustrated. My seedlings and clones were perfection too. Although I'd love to blame the nutes you guys have perfect plants.

I run wet/dry cycles for the entire time the clone is in the cup. Eventually though it drys out daily and requires daily watering. In veg I initially run wet/dry cycles also. By about week 3 they require daily watering. If I happen to see any deficiencies in veg it’s usually time to start watering daily and it clears up. I run that 3/2.5 mix from right out the cloner to flush at full strength.

What is your ppms with that weight since weight seems only to be a guide line and ppms everything?

 

[Ibechillin]

1.8 - 2.4 ec from rooted clone to harvest is with custom balanced feed solution (like 164-30-164-200-30 in his 2 inch pot quote scaled to 2.4 ec), with clones cut from mothers on the same balanced feed program. Not possible to feed plants that way with only jacks 5-12-26 and caltrate, or any premade nutrient solution really.

This is the post about mixing by ppm and not weight/volume:

hi, mixing equal weight is wrong. their instructions show several ways to mix it.

they recommend equal volume.

however, as snook mentioned, the best way to mix is by ec or ppm.

you also won't need any magnesium sulfate, the base formula has over 6% magnesium.

i'm going to assume that you don't have a meter and that's why you are talking about mixing by weight.

if you take a 1/4 teaspoon plus a 1/8 teaspoon of each, 3/8 teaspoon total of each, you will get approx 750 ppm or ec 1.5. this is per gallon.

if you do have a meter, you don't need to measure water volume.

600 ppm is 360 ppm jacks and 240 ppm calcinit 240/360=.67

750 ppm is 450 ppm jacks and 300 ppm calcinit 300/450=.67

900 ppm is 540 ppm jacks and 360 ppm calcinit 540/360=.67

i cannot imagine a situation where you will need a solution stronger than this.

i have grown a 22.5 oz plant in a 3.5 gal container of coco with 600 ppm for life with no displays or problems, no additives or boosters or even ph adjusters.

if you mix it properly you won't have any ph issues.

the ratio is 1/.67 jacks/calcinit

d9

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

Figure I will give a noob update while we wait for the real deal

I was able to recoup plants to looking pretty damn good and cloned them for another tester round. I am pretty sure I set my self up for failure by not using RO water even with the advice given here. I am waiting on the RO unit the OP purchased to arrive and will hopefully have it set up by Friday. Then we start again =)

I also did some testing with GH 6/9 which I previously used to perfection with 0 RO water or anything really other than a pH pen. Entirely different water source however. Plants have issues that got it which has led me to believe that RO was the key.

So major noob mistakes everyone can learn from:

1. Use RO water. No exceptions.

2. Mix by PPM's not by weight!!! Mix your NPK then your Cal nit. If using MG (not recommended) for whatever reasons add before Cal nit.

3. Let everything FULLY dissolve before adding any other part of the nutrient mix. Using hot water speeds this up ten fold.

4. Don't drown vegging plants in coco, especially seedlings. Do a wet dry cycle much like soil. You can drown plants in coco if roots aren't established. I have had to learn this lesson twice now. I looked back at old posts of mine in coco and sure enough wet/dry cycle was what I was using in veg and being very light with watering seedlings like teaspoon or less to prevent drying out of seedling when needed. Then let it sit till it dries up a bit half way down from top of container and then water.

5. Don't feed seedlings until cotyledon leaves use up their nutrients. I have lush green seedlings with just 320 ppm clonex. Will be working on jacks formula over time but for now clonex solution is an ok crutch.

 

[Ibechillin]

40amps sounds like your on the right track getting an RO system and re evaluating your watering habits, this thread might be of some help its about root health in coco:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338851

 

[Earlmarne]

Figure I will give a noob update while we wait for the real deal

I was able to recoup plants to looking pretty damn good and cloned them for another tester round. I am pretty sure I set my self up for failure by not using RO water even with the advice given here. I am waiting on the RO unit the OP purchased to arrive and will hopefully have it set up by Friday. Then we start again =)

I also did some testing with GH 6/9 which I previously used to perfection with 0 RO water or anything really other than a pH pen. Entirely different water source however. Plants have issues that got it which has led me to believe that RO was the key.

So major noob mistakes everyone can learn from:

1. Use RO water. No exceptions.

2. Mix by PPM's not by weight!!! Mix your NPK then your Cal nit. If using MG (not recommended) for whatever reasons add before Cal nit.

3. Let everything FULLY dissolve before adding any other part of the nutrient mix. Using hot water speeds this up ten fold.

4. Don't drown vegging plants in coco, especially seedlings. Do a wet dry cycle much like soil. You can drown plants in coco if roots aren't established. I have had to learn this lesson twice now. I looked back at old posts of mine in coco and sure enough wet/dry cycle was what I was using in veg and being very light with watering seedlings like teaspoon or less to prevent drying out of seedling when needed. Then let it sit till it dries up a bit half way down from top of container and then water.

5. Don't feed seedlings until cotyledon leaves use up their nutrients. I have lush green seedlings with just 320 ppm clonex. Will be working on jacks formula over time but for now clonex solution is an ok crutch.

I need to get an RO system.
Im with you on the wet dry cycle. For me, until Ive really rootbound a container. Wet/dry is absolutely necessary.
I am not great with seedlings. Got 9 nila wafers going on like 4 weeks. Fed nothing but bacteria and a cap full of kelp per 5 gal. Healthiest seed plants Ive ever had. Didnt lose any to damping off.
Going to try mixing by ppm tonight for main res. Kind of a pain with my truncheon. What scale are these instructions above? I pay mind to ec these days due to ppm being 2 dif scales

 

[eric2028]

Figure I will give a noob update while we wait for the real deal

I was able to recoup plants to looking pretty damn good and cloned them for another tester round. I am pretty sure I set my self up for failure by not using RO water even with the advice given here. I am waiting on the RO unit the OP purchased to arrive and will hopefully have it set up by Friday. Then we start again =)

I also did some testing with GH 6/9 which I previously used to perfection with 0 RO water or anything really other than a pH pen. Entirely different water source however. Plants have issues that got it which has led me to believe that RO was the key.

So major noob mistakes everyone can learn from:

1. Use RO water. No exceptions.

2. Mix by PPM's not by weight!!! Mix your NPK then your Cal nit. If using MG (not recommended) for whatever reasons add before Cal nit.

3. Let everything FULLY dissolve before adding any other part of the nutrient mix. Using hot water speeds this up ten fold.

4. Don't drown vegging plants in coco, especially seedlings. Do a wet dry cycle much like soil. You can drown plants in coco if roots aren't established. I have had to learn this lesson twice now. I looked back at old posts of mine in coco and sure enough wet/dry cycle was what I was using in veg and being very light with watering seedlings like teaspoon or less to prevent drying out of seedling when needed. Then let it sit till it dries up a bit half way down from top of container and then water.

5. Don't feed seedlings until cotyledon leaves use up their nutrients. I have lush green seedlings with just 320 ppm clonex. Will be working on jacks formula over time but for now clonex solution is an ok crutch.

Well said sir!! A couple thoughts I wanted to mention. I Havnt cracked beans lately but previously for seedling I would use a spray bottle to moisten them very early on. You don’t have to drench them. Just spray the surface of your medium to moist only when it’s dry(but not bone dry). There is a learning curve. I’ve never lost a seedling ever. Also, I do still mix by weight but here’s a couple things to do.
1. Always store powder nutes of any kind in an airtight container. I like 5 gallon black buckets with gamma seal lids(on amazon).
2. Always store said containers in a controlled environment. Obviously high humidity being the biggest issue.
3. Calibrate your meter. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with ro water, make sure it’s exactly 5 gallons. Check your ec, Write it down. Now add part A, check your ec, write it down. Now add part B, check your ec, write it down. Now check your ph and yes write it down. Now you know exactly where your values always need to be know matter what. Sorry to spell this out for the old pros but it’s helpful for guys getting their feet wet.

I need to get an RO system.
Im with you on the wet dry cycle. For me, until Ive really rootbound a container. Wet/dry is absolutely necessary.
I am not great with seedlings. Got 9 nila wafers going on like 4 weeks. Fed nothing but bacteria and a cap full of kelp per 5 gal. Healthiest seed plants Ive ever had. Didnt lose any to damping off.
Going to try mixing by ppm tonight for main res. Kind of a pain with my truncheon. What scale are these instructions above? I pay mind to ec these days due to ppm being 2 dif scales

I use ec but a quick way to convert it to the 500 scale is for example 1.74 ec x1000/2=870 ppm on .5 scale. Hope that helps.

I ll get an update very soon friends!!

 

[Earlmarne]

Well said sir!! A couple thoughts I wanted to mention. I Havnt cracked beans lately but previously for seedling I would use a spray bottle to moisten them very early on. You don’t have to drench them. Just spray the surface of your medium to moist only when it’s dry(but not bone dry). There is a learning curve. I’ve never lost a seedling ever. Also, I do still mix by weight but here’s a couple things to do.
1. Always store powder nutes of any kind in an airtight container. I like 5 gallon black buckets with gamma seal lids(on amazon).
2. Always store said containers in a controlled environment. Obviously high humidity being the biggest issue.
3. Calibrate your meter. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with ro water, make sure it’s exactly 5 gallons. Check your ec, Write it down. Now add part A, check your ec, write it down. Now add part B, check your ec, write it down. Now check your ph and yes write it down. Now you know exactly where your values always need to be know matter what. Sorry to spell this out for the old pros but it’s helpful for guys getting their feet wet.



I use ec but a quick way to convert it to the 500 scale is for example 1.74 ec x1000/2=870 ppm on .5 scale. Hope that helps.

I ll get an update very soon friends!!

Thanks man, looking forward to the update