6-Benzylaminopurine (BAP) to Possibly Increase Budset and Productivity of Marijuana

[stealthy21]

i am going to try a spray in a few weeks at week 4 of BAP-6 on some 14 week sativas i have going, no control, but i will put before and after spray pics up here also, i am thinking of a spray at 150 ppm, i also thinking of rasing the ppm a bit as i am only spraying it once, any thoughts?

 

[overmyhead]

Just bumping. Very interested in results.

 

[overmyhead]

Once you make the 2% solution, how long before it has to be used? 10-20 liters is a lot of foliar spray especially for small experiments

 

[stealthy21]

so far i have used this product the one time in flower, about four days ago, at 250ppm and they are budding out quite profusely. it didnt break down that well in my opinion into the potassium hydroxide. the powder stuff did, but the big crystalline pieces were a bit tougher. i microwaved for 30 second intervals, no avail. I then just let that shit sit out in the solution and broke up the big pieces with a toothpick. eventually in broke down and once added to my sprayer, i put right up to the light and it had definitely all dissolved after 2 1/2 hours.

but .2 grams makes around a 200 ppm solution. in a 2 liter sprayer.

i also tried in the poly 20. and it did not work. so acetone is the solvent of choice for this or what???? i have 91% iso, i am gonna try that tonight most likely.

Is there any reason people do not just leave it in powder form besides the fact that you have too mix it every time??? i am pretty sure i was reading that a breakdown into acetone and freezing the vials is the most ideal way of storage over time?

 

[Cayenne]

100mg BAP dissolve excellent in 10ml isopropyl

is there any good reason to use methanol or ethanol rather than iso?

 

[dontexist]

The most important question to me is will 6-BAP alter the terpene profile, for people who have used it does the taste, smell and effect change drastically.

 

[OG_TGR]

Thank you DizzleKush, this is a very informative and engrossing thread. I am very much looking forward to starting experiments of my own.

 

[sparty]

I've read the entire thread

I've read the entire thread

Lots of good info. Thanks everyone that shared their data and techniques

So now I'm going to make up a batch of BAP at 50ppm. I have a couple plants that are 4 weeks into a 10 week bloom period that I;ll apply them to.

When I get a minute I'll post some pics.

 

[Bongstar420]

I got the branching effects at 20ppm with a spreader sticker. I think it makes it more effective since Ive never had that kind of branching at those levels. I also gave 1ppm or so of IBA but that stuff makes it more stretch. Harvest was not hastened by the treatment and buds were only branchy not noticeably fatter for the cuts. Spray was around 13 hrs daylight or the beginning of flower.

 

[shaggyballs]

so far i have used this product the one time in flower, about four days ago, at 250ppm and they are budding out quite profusely. it didnt break down that well in my opinion into the potassium hydroxide. the powder stuff did, but the big crystalline pieces were a bit tougher. i microwaved for 30 second intervals, no avail. I then just let that shit sit out in the solution and broke up the big pieces with a toothpick. eventually in broke down and once added to my sprayer, i put right up to the light and it had definitely all dissolved after 2 1/2 hours.

but .2 grams makes around a 200 ppm solution. in a 2 liter sprayer.

i also tried in the poly 20. and it did not work. so acetone is the solvent of choice for this or what???? i have 91% iso, i am gonna try that tonight most likely.

Is there any reason people do not just leave it in powder form besides the fact that you have too mix it every time??? i am pretty sure i was reading that a breakdown into acetone and freezing the vials is the most ideal way of storage over time?

Did you heat the KOH before adding the hormone.IF it still not disolving get it as close to a boil as you can..but be carefull!!!...you could crush it to a fine powder if that wont do the trick make sure to use RO water
hope that helps.

Brass tends to degrade faster than BAP so freezing is recommended for long term storage!

 

[shaggyballs]

Timing is important with BAP the right amount at the right time is where it is at,,,,just need to tie up some loose ends ......I think I have a rough idea how to use it correctly.

I used 100 PPM BAP at switch to 12/12 and vertical growth was stopped- bud set was instantaneous ,I just topped them 1 week before and ended up with what looks like a 2 headed bud monster 2-4 inch long at week 5.

It decreased yield...for sure!!!

It did speed up bud set well!!

Last round
I had a good experience with a spray of brass/bap, 1 week later 100 ppm BAP, 1 week later switch light to 12/12 and spray with brass/bap again.

No stretch large buds!
Stretchy strain but it was well developed!

I think my mistake was not letting them grow longer after topping them and spraying them with 100 ppm BAP.

So get your plant where you want it before you act.
With short strains allow time for more growth.
A stretchy strain give less time before spray.
I have proven it effects all strains differently, depending on it's inherited traits.

 

[MassSpectrum]

Hello thread. I'm a PGR supplier, and grower of many things, but until next year I still wont be able to grow the big one here. But I intend to start frequenting this sort of forums until that day comes to be ready to hit the ground running. I have lots in general horticulture insight into these (PGR) matters, so hope to offer what I can while hoping to also learn from others experiences with PGR's & Cannabis in particular.

@shaggyballs:
You might try switching the lights for a certain amount of days and let the plant naturally switch into flowering... and then spray with 'BAP' (6BA). Or the other way would be to spray right at the switch (as you did), let them go into that initial flower boost you described, and then spray again after x amount of days.

The reason, my instincts tell me, is that initial PGR rush is probably soaking up the available energy just making the phase shift. By the time swelling is underway the treatment is long 'gone' and having little effect into that stretch of the plants endeavor. When treating with PGR's you're manipulating forces already present, so the best way to look at it is as not the fuel but more like dumping octane booster into the fuel tank. When the tank runs out and is refilled with regular gas the engine is going to normal again. That analogy came to mind for this discussion, but my preferred way to explain it is PGR's aren't the fuel, they're extra lead foot on the gas pedal; turbo switches on the engine. As they are utilized / wear off, the gas pedal eases back. Of course, some PGR's instead signal inhibition, as well as too much of the ones that normally boost growth may also inhibit growth, so in these scenarios PGR's can also hit the BRAKE pedal.

I'd never really expect significant growth boosting effects more than a couple weeks out of an moderate single shot PGR treatment.

 

[MassSpectrum]

I think my mistake was not letting them grow longer after topping them and spraying them with 100 ppm BAP.

If doing a late treatment, so close to the end, consider trying Kinetin (6FA) instead. It's one of the most natural chems I know about, as apparently virtually every living cell on earth produces it. With some plant types I've read about (tomatoes & eggplants) it had its most effectiveness when used very early on, but it should still have plenty of effects at any other time in a plants life.

 

[MassSpectrum]

The Auxin/Cytokinin Ratio:

I went thru the entire thread and didn't notice anyone cover this. While auxins deal with plants 'linear' growth tendencies, and cytokinins deal with 'fractal' growth aspects, getting the best growth results isn't simply a matter of eliminating one or the other. That is, treating with just one or the other wont promise you true boosts in growth, but rather a shifting of energy one way or the other. By combining both together in a treatment you may actually get the most booster effects. That is, exploiting the proper ratio while flooding the plant with 'liquid activator signals' wont merely make a plant bushy, but will boost all growth in general. So, if you have the ratio shifted towards the cytokinins then you have max growth boost as the directive and bushy plant as the objective. This all assumes you're dosages are in the plants "sweet spot range" (and every type of plant in the world have their own ranges).

Indole Acetic Acid (IAA) is the proper auxin for these types of effects.

Also adding a pinch of Gibberellins to the mix really takes it as far as it can go, but I suspect most grow rooms would quickly get overcrowded if not designed for it. When properly balanced, the cell stretching helps drive monster growth (while it alone only causes cell stretching and is highly unrecommended).

And now for the dancing monkey:

Auxin exerts its inhibition on cytokinin on several levels; mechanisms range from its biosynthesis to the suppression of its signaling [6]. Reciprocally, cytokinin antagonistically impacts the flux, distribution, and signaling of auxin [7]. Antagonism between auxin and cytokinin is not the only type of interaction that governs developmental outputs in plants. Rather, synergistic interaction between auxin and cytokinins also exists in processes such as nodule organogenesis [8], light-mediated leaf initiation, and organ positioning [9].
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3510258/

For the past few years, genetic and molecular evidence has revealed the interaction between auxin and cytokinin during plant development (Dettmer et al., 2009; Růžičkaa et al., 2009; Wolters and Jürgens, 2009; Zhao et al., 2010). Many recent biochemical and genetic investigations have further confirmed that the intricate cross-talk and integration of hormone signaling are required for differentiation and maintenance of plant meristems.
http://mplant.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/02/28/mp.ssr007.full
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CYTOKININ–AUXIN CROSS-TALK CONTROLS SHOOT MERISTEM DEVELOPMENT
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The auxin–cytokinin cross-talk also controls the root meristem development (Werner et al., 2003; Dello Ioio et al., 2007). Several studies have shown that cytokinin and auxin mutually regulate their signaling pathways or their metabolisms through certain integrators, which are the basis of interaction between these two hormones to determine a specific developmental output in root meristem (Dello Ioio et al., 2008; Moubayidin et al., 2009; Růžičkaa et al., 2009). Recently, a genetic framework has shown that antagonistic interaction between cytokinin and auxin is responsible for the control of cell division and cell differentiation in the root meristem (Dello Ioio et al., 2008; Moubayidin et al., 2009).

 

[shaggyballs]

If doing a late treatment, so close to the end, consider trying Kinetin (6FA) instead. It's one of the most natural chems I know about, as apparently virtually every living cell on earth produces it. With some plant types I've read about (tomatoes & eggplants) it had its most effectiveness when used very early on, but it should still have plenty of effects at any other time in a plants life.

First off let me say welcome to the forum!!!

This forum needs more people like you here!!!

Do you have a rough starting point for PPM range for a early (veg)and late (early flower) application of Kinetin??
By the way I am using your Kinetin!!
shag

 

[shaggyballs]

The Auxin/Cytokinin Ratio:

This all assumes you're dosages are in the plants "sweet spot range" (and every type of plant in the world have their own ranges).
Can you elaborate on where this sweet spot might be for cannabis??

Indole Acetic Acid (IAA) is the proper auxin for these types of effects.
Why do you feel IAA is a better choice than IBA????

Also adding a pinch of Gibberellins to the mix really takes it as far as it can go, but I suspect most grow rooms would quickly get overcrowded if not designed for it. When properly balanced, the cell stretching helps drive monster growth (while it alone only causes cell stretching and is highly unrecommended).

What are you considering a pinch of gibb?
My notes indicate less than 0.01 PPM but like you said RATIO..RATIO.....RATIO!!!!

And now for the dancing monkey:

shag

 

[shaggyballs]

bumping relevant threads

 

[aus2canibasiva]

Hey Massspectrum, cheers for the great quality hormones & PGS's , but I do need some MeJa could you help a brother out??
it's by far the hardest to source.

I'll add info of value later i'm a bit tired right now but thanks for bumping Shaggy!

& Dizzlekush!!!!! What an amazing thread you've created you certainly seem to be a very knowledgeable person along with Shaggy, Omera1 & the mass spectrum guy.

Peace.

 

[aus2canibasiva]

This all assumes you're dosages are in the plants "sweet spot range" (and every type of plant in the world have their own ranges).
Can you elaborate on where this sweet spot might be for cannabis??

Hey Shaggy there shouldn't be a "sweet spot" for cannabis I reckon different strains have different "sweet spots"

A good thing about "The Auxin/Cytokinin Ratio" is that there is no sweet spot you can play around with it, tailoring what you want to happen, you know.....more Auxin more roots, more Cytokinin more branches, that kind of thing. the term sweet spot is to subjective for me.

Yeah what is a pinch of Gibberellin?,, I haven't heard of any useful range yet, I want to use it for increasing the trichome size along with Methyl Jasmonate, if you could get back to us Mass Spectrum on what a usable amount of Gibberellin would be for applications on cannabis, I'm assuming you know people who have used Gibberellin on cannabis, could you find out what they had to say, please.

 

[L3G4CY]

Awesome thread, PGR's really allow us to choose how the plant will grow (stretch, branch, bud, roots, etc.)... kinda make me feel like I was god

I think shaggy hit it pretty much, depending your phenotype morphology , you may apply BAP at a specific time frame. Applying it at the 12/12 switch would cut on the stretch that's for sure and maybe too much. Depending on what you want exactly. So to wait till the stretch finish might be a great option (for me at least).

Also, MassSpectrum added a great tip. By adding an auxin (i.e. IAA), it might allow the plant to normally stretch while still providing that extra bud set (turbo bud). I'll experiment it in the near future!

For the ppm, I'm in the range of 40-60ppm for BAP right now and mixing with thidiazuron (TDZ) 10ppm sprayed at the same time. Plus at different interval, I like to spray TRIA (10ppm with epsom) and BRASS (0.15ppm) to boost up the shit up more lol

I been stalking so many great info hear that I just feel like I need to share back!

So have fun with your PGR's guy!!