504W Independent Test with LED Grow Lights

[LEDGirl]

We can be running these same ballasts/reflectors in 10 years and just have a brand new set of bulbs in them. With the LEDs, you are going to have to buy completely new units eventually, thereby renewing our costs. Hopefully the costs will have come down by then I suppose.

I would also love to see a larger scale grow. LEDGirl, do you have any of your customers that are using somewhere around 16 to 24 126w LEDs and may be able to share their experience or already has on another forum?

Actually ballasts lose efficiency over time as well, so if you're still running the same ones in 10 years, your output will be nowhere near what it was new, even with a brand new bulb. Ballasts are recommended to be replaced every 3 years for standard, and 5 years for digital (used to own a hydro store). By the time you'd switch our your LED unit in 5-10 years, the new ones on the market will be 2-3x brighter than they are currently in terms of lumen output, and likely cost less since LED's will be the standard at that point and HID will be obsolete.

I don't know where anyone has posted a large scale grow online, although I'm currently discussing one with a member here on this site. I have sold 16 units, 12 units, 8 units etc... to individual customers, but most of them tend to keep their grows off the forums. I've received calls back from customers that have ordered large amounts of units and they're either waiting for our Pro model to order many more, or they bought so many because they had such a good experience with 1 or 2 of our units. I wish there was more that was posted online, but customers do what they wish once the product is in their hands

 

[Seismic]

Sorry if you already mentioned this LEDGirl, but what is the pro model?

 

[LEDGirl]

It's a version of our lights that I will be releasing around February or March of next year. It will feature the highest lumen output LED's from all around the world, for each specific nm that we use. The brands of LED's that we will use is going to be classified, but I can guarantee it will have the highest lumen per watt rating of any LED grow light in the world. Not to mention, all of the tech behind our lights which already makes them miles ahead of our competition, will be incorporated into them as well.

 

[Seismic]

Sounds pretty cool, I can already tell you guys are going to have a big impact in the light industry. Just got to strive to keep getting better and better. Take care LEDGirl

 

[dongle69]

At $320 did your 1000W units come with a vented hood?

Yes, Super Sun 2.

And at $65 what brand of bulb are you using?

Sunmaster Deluxe.

Not to mention, how much was your A/C unit, your A/C electric use, and ventilation systems combined?

No A/C.
I already had the ventilation fans, most would still be needed no matter what kind of lights I use.

As far as changing out the units in 4 years, what is the reasoning for that? I don't know ANYONE that changes a HID when it's at 90% of it's original brightness, so why would you want to with LED? I guess if money was no option, then fine, but these things can go 10+ years in a bloom room without needing replaced.

10% drop in output is pretty substantial.
If you say it doesn't matter for LED's then I am amazed.
Thanks for the info!

 

[growclean]

LEDGirl,

I hope that you don't think any of my posts were attacking your product, I am simply trying to understand. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. Thanks for the info, I am going to try to digest it all and figure out what I need. I am sure that I will have more questions.

Thanks!

 

[dongle69]

Actually ballasts lose efficiency over time as well, so if you're still running the same ones in 10 years, your output will be nowhere near what it was new, even with a brand new bulb. Ballasts are recommended to be replaced every 3 years for standard,

You just replace a part, usually a capacitor, not the whole thing.
Very cheap.
In my experience they last much longer than 3 years without any loss.
Ditto what growclean said...

 

[S_a_H]

I think its going to take the few units you are giving away as testers before many are swayed either way. Once we get some trusted members here growing with them and letting people see the results from members they know it'll do the trick or not.

S_a_H

 

[Thundurkel]

Yea I feel the same way S a H I know folks would follow suit if they see me rocking one in a micro setup. I already get 7g - 14g a cut so with the LEDs I bet I'd be close to 21g colas every time...

 

[LEDGirl]

You just replace a part, usually a capacitor, not the whole thing.
Very cheap.
In my experience they last much longer than 3 years without any loss.
Ditto what growclean said...

99% of people who have ballasts, don't do their own replacements. They take it back into a hydro store to have new components installed if they want it rebuilt, however, most simply buy new ballasts. If you have data where you put an output meter on your HPS ballast over the course of 3-5 years, and didn't lose efficiency, I'd love to see it! From the recommendations of companies like Sunlight Supply, HydroFarm, and C.A.P though, (depending on exact model) your ballasts begin losing efficiency in the 3-5 year mark and should be replaced, or have the components replaced at that time. I go by what the MFR recommends personally...

10% drop in output is pretty substantial.
If you say it doesn't matter for LED's then I am amazed.
Thanks for the info!

HID bulbs lose 10% or more of their output by month 6... So are you changing your bulbs twice per year or running them twice as long?



Lastly - I know you guys aren't attacking my product, and I'm hoping you aren't taking any offense to my responses.

 

[LEDGirl]

I think its going to take the few units you are giving away as testers before many are swayed either way. Once we get some trusted members here growing with them and letting people see the results from members they know it'll do the trick or not.

S_a_H

LoL, that was the whole point And since I have respected members such as yourself, with mad growing skills, I have no doubts that you'll be swaying many people (as well as yourself) when you begin your testing.

 

[dongle69]

I just go by what my plants and my light meter tell me.
Usually around a year with my Sunmasters.

 

[growclean]

I'm not one to care much about how many plants each light grows, since it usually takes people at least twice the plants to match what I do in terms of yield. I think a lot of growers are too caught up most of the time, on variables that don't make a whole lot of sense to me. For medical gardeners like myself, we're after the MAX amount we can yield on a single plant within a small space, not trying to fill a room with plants under a single 1000W, and hope each plant to gives us an ounce. So in terms of YIELD (what the light can actually produce as an end product) it will match or beat a 1000W HID. This means that if you were running a 4' x 4' area with 16 plants under HID, and only 8 plants in a 4' x 2' area with our LED, you'd get the same or better yield with our 8 plants, than you would with your 16. So help me understand, why does plant count matter if it's really all about yield? Switching to LED may simply allow you to reduce your garden size while maintaining equal or better results using far less power and plants...

Replacing your 1000W in terms of coverage area, you would want 4, 126W units to do so. The 504W of LED will certainly outperform the 1000W HID, and the penetrative power of ALL of our products is the same. Our 63W, 126W, and 318W are all built of the same "light engines", simply varying amounts of them. The difference between our units is simply how many watts per square foot they provide within their footprint. The 126W is our most economical in terms of covering large areas, and will provide you with results like you've seen in the grows I've posted.

Ok, I digested it and am back with the promised questions. First of all, the number of plants I can grow is not determined by me but rather by legal parameters and would remain the same no matter what type of light I am using. But twice the yield per plant would obviously be great, I mean maximizing performance or making it easier is what we are all striving for no matter what aspect of the grow we are looking at right?

Here are my questions though:

1. Why do you recommend 4 126w over 2 of the 318w to cover plants in 4X4 area? If the increased wattage of the 318w isn't beneficial inside of the same area, what is it good for?

2. What is science behind the plants yielding double? I mean, that is such a huge increase it is insane. I originally was looking at these from a "making life easier" standpoint (wiring, cooling, etc.) but you are stating that not only would 50% of the wattage be required with no additional cooling of the lights themselves, but we should also expect double the yields?

3. Do you have expected price points for the new Pro models? Should I be waiting for them? Is the technology progressing rapidily enough that there is going to be significantly better products for the same price in 6 months? I mean I know you have to get your feet wet at some point (heck, if you are waiting for the newest/best/cheaper technology, then you wouldn't ever buy a new tv!) but is now the time?

 

[S_a_H]

LoL, that was the whole point And since I have respected members such as yourself, with mad growing skills, I have no doubts that you'll be swaying many people (as well as yourself) when you begin your testing.

Yep !!!!!!

I have 20 Sour Streak seedlings going now that are just a few days old and another 12 Sour 60 ( AF ) seeds germing now.

I'll run the autoflowers first for there 2 months and when they are done i'll put the Sour Streak ( 12/12 ) into flower.

The Sour Streak are under a 400w MH now.

S_a_H

 

[LEDGirl]

Ok, I digested it and am back with the promised questions. First of all, the number of plants I can grow is not determined by me but rather by legal parameters and would remain the same no matter what type of light I am using. But twice the yield per plant would obviously be great, I mean maximizing performance or making it easier is what we are all striving for no matter what aspect of the grow we are looking at right?

Understood. In that case if you wish to keep the same # of plants in the same sized space, and simply switch to LED to cover your entire area, you can count on substantially increased yields. For a lot of people out there, 6 plants in bloom is all they can have legally. For others, keeping the plant #'s down is a good way to try and stay out of trouble with the law, should anything ever transpire.

1. Why do you recommend 4 126w over 2 of the 318w to cover plants in 4X4 area? If the increased wattage of the 318w isn't beneficial inside of the same area, what is it good for?

It has to do with the equality of light spread. It's like asking the guy who runs 10, 400W HPS lights why he doesn't run 4, 1000W lights over the same area. Using 10, he has a much more even spread of light intensity throughout his grow space, even though it's the same wattage. Our 318W units have a MAX footprint of 2' x 4', meaning that the light around the edges is not the same as the light directly underneath the unit. If you put 2 of them in a 4' x 4' area, there is very little to no overlap, and their footprints are maxed out to cover the area. If you use 4, 126W lights (even though the power consumption is about 130W difference), you have a more even spread of light throughout the area, and PLENTY of overlap.

2. What is science behind the plants yielding double? I mean, that is such a huge increase it is insane. I originally was looking at these from a "making life easier" standpoint (wiring, cooling, etc.) but you are stating that not only would 50% of the wattage be required with no additional cooling of the lights themselves, but we should also expect double the yields?

Our lights have produced from 1.3grams per watt on low yielding strains to 2grams per watt on high yielding strains. Most growers with HID's average .5 grams per watt, and the good ones hit .75 (best ones can hit 1.0). So if you take the average #, our LED's are 3-4X more efficient. If you take the pro grower, I'm sure he can do more than 2g per watt with our unit lol. The science behind this has to do with the light wavelengths that we use. We don't give the plants all of the unnecessary light that is included with HID, we give them the precise nm's that they use most efficiently. Since we don't waste the light our units supply, a higher amount of it gets converted by your plants into energy, enabling our lights to produce much higher gram per watt numbers than previously capable under HID.

3. Do you have expected price points for the new Pro models? Should I be waiting for them? Is the technology progressing rapidily enough that there is going to be significantly better products for the same price in 6 months? I mean I know you have to get your feet wet at some point (heck, if you are waiting for the newest/best/cheaper technology, then you wouldn't ever buy a new tv!) but is now the time?

Anywhere from $699-$899 for a 126W light depending on which specific LED's we use. The technology is progressing rapidly, but each company around the world specializes in developing one thing or another. For example Seoul makes the worlds brightest white right now at 240lumens per watt, while Cree makes one of the world's brightest blues. Most MFR's for LED lights use cheaper LED's like those from Bridgelux or Semi (both US companies) as we do, which don't have as high of a lumen per watt rating, but their cost effectiveness is perfect! We will still continue to carry our "Base-Model" lights that you see on our site now, we will simply offer the high powered upgrade for anyone who wants it. Since we'll be using only the best LED's in that product, and they will be the highest in the world (even as they create new LED's), you can rest assured that no one else will be matching our PRO technology in 6 months.

 

[Sleepy]

happy dance!!

happy dance!!

LoL, that was the whole point And since I have respected members such as yourself, with mad growing skills, I have no doubts that you'll be swaying many people (as well as yourself) when you begin your testing.

anxiously awaiting the arrival...

i have seeds germing and ready to GROW!

 

[Thundurkel]

Ah shit Sleepy is about to get down and dirty with the LEDs!!! That cowbell should look pretty trippy under the pinkish light so try not to stare at the trails coming of the stick too long and take care of your girls hahahaha

 

[wintermute]

LED 2010

LED 2010

It's a version of our lights that I will be releasing around February or March of next year. It will feature the highest lumen output LED's from all around the world, for each specific nm that we use. The brands of LED's that we will use is going to be classified, but I can guarantee it will have the highest lumen per watt rating of any LED grow light in the world.

Not even a hint? Lot of new high power LED in the pipeline many of which would be aiming for top place. What about a more accurate estimate PAR mol*m^2/sec? How sure is this guarantee?

 

[LEDGirl]

I will be testing all LED's on the exact same machine, with the exact same variables. That's why I am flying there to personally oversee everything. The machine gives me the light rendering (exact output of each LED), lumen & lux values, etc... I will have all the data to compare side by side to make sure that I'm releasing the best, because that is after all, what I'm all about. I am constantly researching to find the newest and brightest LED's for each nm that we use in our products. Some are harder than others to obtain, but ultimately we'll be testing a LOT of brands prior to picking the individual LED's for our PRO model lights.

 

[irishboy]

I will be testing all LED's on the exact same machine, with the exact same variables. That's why I am flying there to personally oversee everything. The machine gives me the light rendering (exact output of each LED), lumen & lux values, etc... I will have all the data to compare side by side to make sure that I'm releasing the best, because that is after all, what I'm all about. I am constantly researching to find the newest and brightest LED's for each nm that we use in our products. Some are harder than others to obtain, but ultimately we'll be testing a LOT of brands prior to picking the individual LED's for our PRO model lights.

cant wait sound cool. $hit i think the 126w is bad @$$ so fare, cant wait to get my hands on the pro modle. what can i say i love testing differnt leds. so fare every thing you have claimend on ur 126w has been true. now i am just waiting for the flowering. the vegging is like no other. i can control my plants like i want. i can just keep the nodes stacked or make them strech whatever i want my plant to do. because their is hardley no heat i can just lay the light real close and let them bush out and get stacked, or raise the light to make them less busher. good job on these lights.