3 phase pumps, the latest thing.
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highfidelity
Active member
Upgrades...The 800l/hr model was/is great but after doubling the number of emitters in the flower tent (4x8) it left me wanting more so I scooped a DC50G-2480S. This thing definitely puts out some water. Found it on ebay for only 57$ shipped after fees:
It was actually slightly too strong for my needs so I have powered it by a 3-24v power supply which is 18$ shipped:
This let's me run the pump at 21v which provides a much nicer flow rate for my system. I got a second one as well since I've now got the 800l/h feeding my veg tent (4x4) and had to dial that one back to about 16v to get a flow rate I was happy with.
I'm not sure but I'd assume that like many electronics, running them on lower power will leave some headroom and increase the longevity of the pump
SHYSKY 24V Micro Brushless DC Circulation Water Pump DC50G-2480S 86W 8m 2400LPH | eBay
3Phase brushless, permanent magnetic rotor, maintenance-free, long life. 1 x DC50G-2480S 24Vdc micro water circulation pump. 13 Max horizontal flow rate 2400L/H. Keep the water clean, prohibiting impurities from entering the pump.
www.ebay.com
It was actually slightly too strong for my needs so I have powered it by a 3-24v power supply which is 18$ shipped:
3V-24V 2.5A 60W Adjustable DC Power Supply Adapter Control Volt Display US Stock | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3V-24V 2.5A 60W Adjustable DC Power Supply Adapter Control Volt Display US Stock at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
This let's me run the pump at 21v which provides a much nicer flow rate for my system. I got a second one as well since I've now got the 800l/h feeding my veg tent (4x4) and had to dial that one back to about 16v to get a flow rate I was happy with.
I'm not sure but I'd assume that like many electronics, running them on lower power will leave some headroom and increase the longevity of the pump
Lowering the voltage to an EC motor slows it down, though peak current is usually still reached. Just delayed. Thus speed is more effected than torque. Translating to a lowered flow, but not so greatly reduced pressure capability.
I notice the pump is rated 3.6 amp, but your power supply 2.5 amp. This will reduce the torque as the PSU is likely current limiting. Many a PSU won't start up in these circumstances, so it's good to see this one will.
I notice the pump is rated 3.6 amp, but your power supply 2.5 amp. This will reduce the torque as the PSU is likely current limiting. Many a PSU won't start up in these circumstances, so it's good to see this one will.
highfidelity
Active member
Interesting. I was unaware that peak current could still be achieved at the lower voltage. I had figured I'd be fine pushing what I assumed would be a tad above 3a at 21v. Even though it's a 2.5a PSU given the short 60-90 second bursts that it takes for a proper feed, the fact that 2.5a is likely the continuous rating and that burst ratings often tend to be a tad higher I figured it'd be fine. I did find a 5a 9-24v available here that I'm going to order though just for safety's sake:
9-24V 5A 120W Supply AC/DC Adapter Switch Power Adjustable Display Power Charger | eBay
Excellway 9-24V 5A 120W AC/DC Adapter Switching Power. Power: 120W. Product type: Adjustable Power Adapter. High efficiency power adapter - Fast charging and low power consumption. Excellent performance - Good anti-interference performance with stable output and long service life.
www.ebay.com
I'm still planning to add a rez pretty soon so can just use the 2.5a PSU to power another 800l/hr when that happens.
It's purely academic, but the motor windings are a very low resistance. They don't offer much resistance to current flow at all. The current limiting is done within the controller. The rise in winding current isn't instantaneous though. The higher the voltage, the quicker it happens. This is what speeds the motor along. Higher voltage means peak current is arrived at sooner. As the motor turns, the controller senses it's position by watching the coils pass the magnets. Applying the power at the right angle. This is timing we can effect with the speed the current builds within the winding, using different voltage. It's almost like a soft start, and likely softens the vibration accordingly. What little vibration there is.
The PSU is a little odd. It's 60w. With 24v that's about 2.5 amps. 24v2.5=60odd. However, the max current is 5 amps. That would be at 12v or less. 12x5=60odd. Erm.. 60/3.6=17volts.
There must be a micro controller in there, looking at voltage and controlling current accordingly.
The 120w PSU should offer 5 amps and 24v at the same time.
The PSU is a little odd. It's 60w. With 24v that's about 2.5 amps. 24v2.5=60odd. However, the max current is 5 amps. That would be at 12v or less. 12x5=60odd. Erm.. 60/3.6=17volts.
There must be a micro controller in there, looking at voltage and controlling current accordingly.
The 120w PSU should offer 5 amps and 24v at the same time.
So for these to work I need the pump and PSU any links to the PSU I would need, will the PSU run from a standard AC electrical timer between it and the mains? Im on 240 volt mains.
Would something like this power these pumps.
www.jaycar.com.au
Would something like this power these pumps.
240V to 12VAC 105VA Lighting Transformer | Jaycar Electronics
This transformer delivers 105W at 12VAC. It will power 2 x 50W halogen globes or 5 x 20 watt. Ideal for 5 x 20W pathway lights, for example. Transformer is not waterproof and needs to be kept indoors.
www.jaycar.com.au
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highfidelity
Active member
Guess I forgot to reply to this but I definitely did notice this effect. When hand watering with the pump at 12v I'd get a probably 10-12 second ramp up while it built pressure in the tube and started to increase flow. At 24v this was almost instant and the flow was more or less the same. Got the 120w psu in but haven't set it up yet. Did wonder a bit about that math but the pump worked so i wasnt gonna think too hard
. Will see how the new psu works shortly.
There are a few pumps being talked about. Typically 12v that run from 6-12, Or 24v that run from 12-24. They are all DC pumps though, so won't work on the AC lighting transformer.So for these to work I need the pump and PSU any links to the PSU I would need, will the PSU run from a standard AC electrical timer between it and the mains? Im on 240 volt mains.
Would something like this power these pumps.
240V to 12VAC 105VA Lighting Transformer | Jaycar Electronics
This transformer delivers 105W at 12VAC. It will power 2 x 50W halogen globes or 5 x 20 watt. Ideal for 5 x 20W pathway lights, for example. Transformer is not waterproof and needs to be kept indoors.
The smaller pumps will run on a wall wart (a lump that plugs in) while the bigger pumps want something that looks like a laptop brick. Though not a laptop one, as they are usually 19v
A few of the links are to pumps and PSU combinations. Perhaps the most useful pump here is the 17m head one, which can be purchased with PSU.
If you are struggling with your purchase, post up your exact requirements and I (or someone that fancies a crack at it) will give you a couple of choices.
Don't buy them fecking octobubblers. There are direct replacements that work, but the octobubblers have no place in a domestic environment, unless it's straight from the tap.
Thanks for that, too late on the octobubblers Ive already bought them they are in transport so the pump got to be able to create enough psi to run them properly.
I want to run from 8 to 16 drippers at 2gph flow rate which gives me around 150 ml per minute which is the lowest increment on my timers, and 150ml is for me a good lowest point.
Im running a sump pump at the moment and the flow is inconsistent.
With the octobubblers can I put a small tap on say one line to reduce that ones volume over the other outlets.
Anything bought by post, can be returned.
We have spoke about the octo's a few times in this thread. They need 14 meters of head. The 17m head of the 24v 1000 model will be needed. It can run perhaps 20 octo's.
The digg top-spin 12 is a better unit. It's basically the same but needs just 7 meters of head. A pump using half the power (noise) can work the spin 12s. post #38 details them.
With the octo, you are looking at this pump https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32707251744.html
You will want a 24v 5a psu https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002733082598.html
£40 as a pair. Say £50 with taxes.
We have spoke about the octo's a few times in this thread. They need 14 meters of head. The 17m head of the 24v 1000 model will be needed. It can run perhaps 20 octo's.
The digg top-spin 12 is a better unit. It's basically the same but needs just 7 meters of head. A pump using half the power (noise) can work the spin 12s. post #38 details them.
With the octo, you are looking at this pump https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32707251744.html
You will want a 24v 5a psu https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002733082598.html
£40 as a pair. Say £50 with taxes.
CrushnYuba
Well-known member
So.. I'm looking for a pump for this little swamp cooler project. I think one of these might work. But why are these special and new. I can't figure it out.
I need high pressure, lowish flow. Has to be very energy efficient (solar). I don't want to use a positive displacement pump if I can avoid it because it will run constantly.
Is it just a brushless dc pump? I love my brushless drills. Battery last longer and it's quieter then my old brushed Dewalt. I'm gonna use a brushless dc computer fan. I feel like I'm missing something because I feel like brushless dc motors are super common.
I just don't know if this project is gonna work without using a displacement pump considering my power limitation and pressure requirement. I might have to use a little fuel delivery pump. I'm just trying to push like 2 most nozzles. I really want it to be quiet.
I need high pressure, lowish flow. Has to be very energy efficient (solar). I don't want to use a positive displacement pump if I can avoid it because it will run constantly.
Is it just a brushless dc pump? I love my brushless drills. Battery last longer and it's quieter then my old brushed Dewalt. I'm gonna use a brushless dc computer fan. I feel like I'm missing something because I feel like brushless dc motors are super common.
I just don't know if this project is gonna work without using a displacement pump considering my power limitation and pressure requirement. I might have to use a little fuel delivery pump. I'm just trying to push like 2 most nozzles. I really want it to be quiet.
Yeah, Brushless DC like your power drill. Some are 2 phase, some 3. The 3 phase one's tend to have better control gear inside. Something that monitors the rotors position, and applies power accordingly. Where as the 2 phase one's just send the field around, presuming the rotor is moving.
I think PC fans were the first common use of this tech. Many years before power tools got it. With pumps in the range we require, coming later still.
I have tiny diaphragm pumps used for dosing. I don't think it's as efficient a use of power though. The ~3 pump just powers round as much as needed. So if you can find one the actual capacity you need, I doubt it can be beat. There is little loss of power to poor timing or physical vibration. This is especially evident when you start running them slower. An AC motor can be slowed with voltage, but actually the speed the field goes around is still fixed by the power generating company. 50 or 60hz supplies being common. Much of the speed reduction is akin to a misfire. Wasted power. It's common for a slowed AC motor to take so much power still, that it melts. Going too slow to waft the heat away. The trick DC motor reduces current in the windings, and keeps the timing aligned. My 4" extractor is about 70w iirc, but using this tech is can run at less than 5w turned down.
I think you will be fine with one, and could look at dc/dc convertors to get it's power use right down to your minimum requirement.
The smallest I have used is the 600 model, and my local shop were well impressed with it chucking water out the bucket like their big pond pump did.
I'm not quite sure of your requirement, as you ended with a typo I think.
I think PC fans were the first common use of this tech. Many years before power tools got it. With pumps in the range we require, coming later still.
I have tiny diaphragm pumps used for dosing. I don't think it's as efficient a use of power though. The ~3 pump just powers round as much as needed. So if you can find one the actual capacity you need, I doubt it can be beat. There is little loss of power to poor timing or physical vibration. This is especially evident when you start running them slower. An AC motor can be slowed with voltage, but actually the speed the field goes around is still fixed by the power generating company. 50 or 60hz supplies being common. Much of the speed reduction is akin to a misfire. Wasted power. It's common for a slowed AC motor to take so much power still, that it melts. Going too slow to waft the heat away. The trick DC motor reduces current in the windings, and keeps the timing aligned. My 4" extractor is about 70w iirc, but using this tech is can run at less than 5w turned down.
I think you will be fine with one, and could look at dc/dc convertors to get it's power use right down to your minimum requirement.
The smallest I have used is the 600 model, and my local shop were well impressed with it chucking water out the bucket like their big pond pump did.
I'm not quite sure of your requirement, as you ended with a typo I think.
CrushnYuba
Well-known member
I'm making a tiny evaporative cooler. just need to spray a little. Like 2 brass mist nozzles. Maybe even 1 would be ok. So barely any flow but i think i need at least 25psi. I need it to be super low power consumption though. I saw some brushless pumps that are usb powered! But they don't seem to have much lift. I think a larger pump can be slowed down and save power with pwm like a flashlight but I imagine I would get horrible pressure compared to a fas t tiny pump. I could be wrong
I really can't spend more then like 25w. I have seen tiny diaphram pumps but I don't think they can run for long periods of time and it's too much noise. Considering how low the flow I need, there's got to be something but I'm having a hard time finding it. If I can't find something. I have to go back to the drawing board.
They used to make these tiny centrifugal humidifiers. Like s commercial one but tiny. It would be perfect if I put a brushless dc motor on it. Too bad I don't see them anymore.
I really can't spend more then like 25w. I have seen tiny diaphram pumps but I don't think they can run for long periods of time and it's too much noise. Considering how low the flow I need, there's got to be something but I'm having a hard time finding it. If I can't find something. I have to go back to the drawing board.
They used to make these tiny centrifugal humidifiers. Like s commercial one but tiny. It would be perfect if I put a brushless dc motor on it. Too bad I don't see them anymore.
The 160 model is 4w with a 2.2 meters head. You could make a seven stage pump (7 pumps in a row) to reach your 25psi 25w target.
It's a bad idea. A couple of 15psi pumps together is going to cost you over 50w though.
Have to look at the exact misters you are thinking of. Simply being a mister is challenge though. I have blinkers on towards their existence. It's not just powering them, it's the cleanliness to keep them from blocking. Could you use an ultrasonic atomiser?
It's a bad idea. A couple of 15psi pumps together is going to cost you over 50w though.
Have to look at the exact misters you are thinking of. Simply being a mister is challenge though. I have blinkers on towards their existence. It's not just powering them, it's the cleanliness to keep them from blocking. Could you use an ultrasonic atomiser?
CrushnYuba
Well-known member
So.. this all started with me buying one of those micro as seen on TV swamp coolers. Basically a small ultra sonic atomizer and computer fan. It did nothing. I bought a usb pad based cooler and the little 120mm fan barely pulled through the pad. Mind you, its 30% humidity here and swamp coolers work very well. It is possible that the transducer in that thing wasn't big enough. But I just put a 25w transducer in front of the fan. I noticed a slight temp drop.
I think I'm gonna try building a pad based system with a 7 gallon can and that 4w pump and brushless fan. I saw a bunch of designs online.
I think I'm gonna try building a pad based system with a 7 gallon can and that 4w pump and brushless fan. I saw a bunch of designs online.
Ca++
Well-known member
Tried a 24v 660A. Rated 10 meters. It seems to be over-performing, putting almost a liter a minute out through 32 2Lph arrows. They look to be dribbling right though.
Noise in a 2G bucket, didn't drown out a mechanical timer across the room. If the pump and pipe were kept away from the sides, there was no vibration felt on the bucket.
At first the pump was running 5 seconds, stopping 5, then repeat. Only for a minute, then quitting. I tried 12v instead, and it did the same. Then by accident shlurped some air. Problem solved. I'm guessing it needed a little polish inside, or to learn it's limits. Running 12v is was weaker, but still near adequate. While 24v really does make it spin fast. I notice small pumps doing great output at 24v, but in doing so, they make more noise. In a sense, It might be spinning twice as fast, which would be 4 times the kinetic energy. So it's better to get a bigger pump than use a higher voltage. Though to be clear, I can hear the wheels of my 3$ timer going round, and I'm sitting over the pump holding it.
The inlet was a hosepipe sized barb, but the outlet a 10mm barb. I do have 10mm black line, but really like hosepipe. My 10mm black line is good for slipping over the 10mm bard, and making it fatter. This is common for me. Slipping 10mm line over the barb, then hosepipe over the 10mm line. No clips, just a bit of hot water. I keep a selection of hosepipe. Some bargain store stuff is 11-12mm and ideal where 12.5mm 'standard' is a bit loose.
Recommended? Yeah I would say so. It came with a power brick, and the barb connections are workable. Allowing hosepipe and the world of fittings that makes available. Making a simple drip system, for perhaps 60 stakes.
Ultimately I like silence in my room, so while this will do, I might fit the 12v 1000 with it's threaded connections. It's more work, but every bit of noise matters. For further clarity, I have a nokia charger I must change. It's just running a PC fan, but I can hear it whine when I'm near it. These are the levels of noise we are talking about.
Noise in a 2G bucket, didn't drown out a mechanical timer across the room. If the pump and pipe were kept away from the sides, there was no vibration felt on the bucket.
At first the pump was running 5 seconds, stopping 5, then repeat. Only for a minute, then quitting. I tried 12v instead, and it did the same. Then by accident shlurped some air. Problem solved. I'm guessing it needed a little polish inside, or to learn it's limits. Running 12v is was weaker, but still near adequate. While 24v really does make it spin fast. I notice small pumps doing great output at 24v, but in doing so, they make more noise. In a sense, It might be spinning twice as fast, which would be 4 times the kinetic energy. So it's better to get a bigger pump than use a higher voltage. Though to be clear, I can hear the wheels of my 3$ timer going round, and I'm sitting over the pump holding it.
The inlet was a hosepipe sized barb, but the outlet a 10mm barb. I do have 10mm black line, but really like hosepipe. My 10mm black line is good for slipping over the 10mm bard, and making it fatter. This is common for me. Slipping 10mm line over the barb, then hosepipe over the 10mm line. No clips, just a bit of hot water. I keep a selection of hosepipe. Some bargain store stuff is 11-12mm and ideal where 12.5mm 'standard' is a bit loose.
Recommended? Yeah I would say so. It came with a power brick, and the barb connections are workable. Allowing hosepipe and the world of fittings that makes available. Making a simple drip system, for perhaps 60 stakes.
Ultimately I like silence in my room, so while this will do, I might fit the 12v 1000 with it's threaded connections. It's more work, but every bit of noise matters. For further clarity, I have a nokia charger I must change. It's just running a PC fan, but I can hear it whine when I'm near it. These are the levels of noise we are talking about.
Ca++
Well-known member
My bad. I have a 660A3 not 660A. The 3 makes it better. The 3 phase the threads about. 25% more pressure. It's rated a Bar or 1200L. My 32 2L arrows, should be 64L an hour, and I'm certainly getting about 1L per minute as I should. That's only 5% of the available flow, so it's still making a Bar. It should indeed run 64 easily, and in fairness 100 with looped manifold. Close to 300 of the 0.5bar 2L PC emitters (I would have to do the maths) which is where garden hose is starting to be a limitation.
This pump worth 20 notes, with a PSU of similar value, should cover a container. Making a shoe box sized 300w pump and 3/4" filter set and pipes look silly.
Edit: It's 30 british notes, delivered, complete.
www.aliexpress.com
This pump worth 20 notes, with a PSU of similar value, should cover a container. Making a shoe box sized 300w pump and 3/4" filter set and pipes look silly.
Edit: It's 30 british notes, delivered, complete.
30.36C$ 25% OFF|660a3 Three-phase Dc 12v 24v Pump With Over Current/voltage Protection, Water Protection Function Submersible Brushless Pump - Pumps - AliExpress
Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
www.aliexpress.com
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