3 phase pumps, the latest thing.

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Following up: I am very happy with these pumps from the company "Ahead" in Shandong. I have several now.

Today I noticed that this pump (archive) is marketed as "for 3% Hydrogen peroxide disinfection machine."

f-e, you had a question whether a failed pump of mine (not from Ahead, but another manufacturer) was pumping any H2O2. Thought you'd appreciate in this intelligence.

Thank you.
I have seen no frothing/foaming with this pump design. That problem seems isolated to the RV pumps I was using before.
I got a 24v 10M about 6 months ago, but have had no reason to use it. I have not serviced my drip system at all in that time. Perhaps 500 5minute sessions. It ran a similar time before that service, from new. That service was to remove air from the filter housing, a filter that lives above the pump. I may of simply drawn air in, as it gathered quickly so I can't rule out loose pipe fittings.

I'm very happy with this range of pumps. I see no reason to use anything else. I actually find the physically larger pumps a joke. The ones 99% of people use. As sold by every hydro shop I visit. They just haven't caught up yet.
 

highfidelity

Active member
Thank you for bumping this! Been needing to replace my harbor freight 1/10hp transfer pumps as they're not reliable at all and the return process is a pita. Got an 800L/H 5m coming to test
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
I'm guessing the 24v one? I hope you like it can come back to give an honest review in any case :) GenghisKush seems to be 9 months in with his, and at $10, what do you want :)

Be aware they swim about like a jet ski lol

Respect for calling it a 5 meter. You get it :)
 

DARKSIDER

Official Seed Tester
ICMag Supporter
:good:Find me one of these with normal uk plug and a filter connected and that would make me happy..:D
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
:good:Find me one of these with normal uk plug and a filter connected and that would make me happy..:D

Nearly all of them come with a DC jack common to nearly all DC power supplies. The 5.5 x 2.1mm one.

Some sellers pair them up for you, but it's usually cheaper to buy the pump and psu from different sellers.
This seller wants about £8 as 24v is a little uncommon. It's a kettle lead like most lights use. The pump they are buying is just 1amp but I would buy the 3a psu I reckon https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000597669222.html

Pair here with a bit more guts than than the 800L 5M. It's with PSU but it's an EU plug. Got scissors? :)
£21 delivered
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32681880569.html
 
JT-1000BT 24V 17m is the most powerful one of these pumps I see. = 24psi. $62.56
I think 50psi to run octabubblers to run a tee off each outlet and emitters are rated at 14.5 - 58 PSI. 10m is 14.2psi.
 

Three Berries

Well-known member
We use to use dc positive displacement gear pumps for precision volume or flow control at the old battery factory.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
JT-1000BT 24V 17m is the most powerful one of these pumps I see. = 24psi. $62.56
I think 50psi to run octabubblers to run a tee off each outlet and emitters are rated at 14.5 - 58 PSI. 10m is 14.2psi.

I'm seeing that at 41usd. Are you paying 50% more with taxes? EDIT: PSU? :)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32681154441.html

The https://www.bldcpump.com website shows a few larger ones. The highlight is the 80 series, with 12 meter max, it can do 10 meters at 3 gallons per minute. Or there is the 50 series, with a 16 meter pump that can provide 8 liters at 10 meters. That is (for those new to these figures) you can get 8 liters from it before the pressure drops below the 1 Bar that many emitters want. Remember those compensated reds though, they just want 0.5 Bar. The 80 series can provide 15G/55L per minute before the pressure drops below 0.5 bar. That's a big green water butt in 5 minutes. A big one.

I will breeze over the liters vs pressure bit again.
The water supplied to your town house is pumped in. In your garden, you have a hose. You have your finger over the emitting part of the hose. If you almost stop the flow, the pressure might have a bit squirting out 5-10 meters down your garden. As you remove your finger, you get more water out, but the pressure is dropping. It won't reach 5-10 meters now. With your finger right off the emitting end, you get the maximum flow, measured volumetrically. However, the minimum pressure. It might not reach 1 meter. This is a hose, from a pump down the street. It's the same thing. Our pumps have a pressure they can supply, measured in either Bar or PSI, or perhaps how many meters in the air a tank would have to be to equal it. 1 Bar = 14.5psi = 10 meters of head. Other than pressure, we have the maximum flow, measured with no finger over them. Traditionally shops use this figure to sell us pumps. Emitters are rated volumetrically, at a certain pressure. You can presume 1 Bar until told something different. Most pumps for emptying a cellar of flood water, will have a head specification of 5-8 meters maximum, so can't even run one emitter correctly. Swapping pumps looking for a great capacity in terms of volume, does absolutely nothing to change this. The first thing to know about a drip system, is the pressure needed. Then the amount of water needed at that pressure. Then you can look at the pump charts as in the above link. Finding a pump that can meet both figures. Pressure and volume. These pumps in this thread are about the first option we have had, in pumps that can meet the pressure requirement, without coming out a deep well.
Somewhat overlooked, we do also have diaphragm pumps. A piston like affair. A positive displacement pump. It wants to shift a metered amount of water. They are not content doing a wide range of capacities. We over size them, and use pressure regulation to return excess to the tank. Many have a bypass in the pump itself, or pressure operated power switching, to supply, typically, about 45psi. This is quite high for pushing bit of hosepipe over barbs with a high degree of confidence. The reciprocal pumping action is also noisy, like a big air pump. Which is itself a smaller diaphragm pump. Personally, I find a small air pump it be noisy. The water versions unbearable. It's a matter of circumstances though.
I like the normal pump, where an impeller spins in a housing. No pressure regulators. Just a normal pump that doesn't need valves to seat properly or have diaphragms split. I want something I can wash under the tap. Having found them with brushless DC motors that don't hum like the 50/60hz AC ones, It's me doing the buzzing. This is progress. Motors are changing, lights are changing, it's all electronic now. Yet still looks like the stuff we know.

Breeze over he said..
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
FILTERS

From my pump, I run through something like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003556736355.html
H06aa0a3881c241babd3f3922eca63123B.jpg

I use 40 mesh, as anything coming through that will come through my emitters. I thought the 80 mesh would be undue cleaning. I have not cleaned mine at all. It lives in the darkness of the tank, where any drips opening the thing are contained.

What does get dirty, is the filter on my recirculating pump. It's a 600a pump iirc, and I have it connected to something like this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003323105713.html
Hfe5dd9bd37e246a4827f6464cff2ecdfp.jpg

I push through it, so the crud is caught inside.

This way, my water is filtered 24/7. This recirculating pump/filter combination catches crap 24 hours a day, and the filter to my drippers just 15 minutes a day. Thus, statistically, My drip filter does 1% of the overall dirt removal. Until I drop a root ball in the tank while it's fertigating. At which point, both pumps stall and power off. Intelligent as they are, I don't know if they do turn backwards then forwards again to eject the rubbish. I think they just power down.
 
I use Octabubblers rated 20-60psi

I might try the JT-1000BT 24V 17m. That link you posted is the same price I listed.
Do you know what the thread size is?
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
I use Octabubblers rated 20-60psi

I might try the JT-1000BT 24V 17m. That link you posted is the same price I listed.
Do you know what the thread size is?

20-60 is unusual. I actually have the 12v version installed with what they call 1/2 inch fittings. Like a 1/2 tap, they are talking pipe size. The actual thread is 3/4 iirc. Standard 1/2" garden hose stuff like a quick connect will go on.
A cautionary note: I got a 5 pack from Ali and the fit was a bit sloppy. I put in extra washers from the unused ones and applied ptfe tape.
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You can see it there. The 1/2" is bigger than the 12.3mm
Item: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001679792913.html

That link will also provide the males for filter housings.


You could think about a pair of 8 meter pumps in a row. It won't do anything for there volumetric capacity, but the head adds together. Giving the 16 meters and also hose barbs not threads. As a bonus, if a pump or psu went down, you would still have one running. Using two is a bit of an orientation puzzle, but as long as you can open the pipework above the pump, air will come out, and water will go in. Personally I have a quick connect on my tanks outlet. I open that and run the pumps to get the air out of the pumps and filter very quickly. It also serves to drain the tank, or fill a bucket.
It really depends how much delivery you need. Perhaps if you expand one day, you might think about a second pump in line with your first. About 50psi. It's the same multi-stage system as used in deep well pumps.

One more note: The BT is soft start, but spinning slow means high current. They say 3.5 amps, but go for 5 at the very least. Perhaps a PC PSU using the +12v and -12v rails to give 24. I think that would work..


Edit: My 12v variant is running through the filter and a solenoid valve to just 16 2L arrows. Doing 33cc per minute, just like they should. The pump knows it's stalling though, in terms of spinning on the spot as the delivery is so low. You can see if chopping the surface a little, as it regulates the power up and down, hunting for the perfect speed. This offers a little noise the less intelligent version don't. I wish it would break, so I could fit the barbed 24v 10 meter I have waiting. Damn things just too reliable :)
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Check out this bad boy, not the 1200 but the maxijet 1000 is commonly seen as bad ass. A whole 1.5 meters. It's not even worth looking at. This is the junk we are replacing.
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250w drummond 2000, ~100$ and not quite 10 meter, but will work. For a hand full of emitters and a tank heater/vibrator.
https://www.harborfreight.com/13-hp-...gph-63318.html
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We can do that for less than half of the money, 25% of the electric/heat and a wee small fraction of the noise.

The drummond 3000, sounds like a better pump, but no. About 7 meters of head. Bigger impellers are not what we need.

The 125$ creekstone 4500 gph. Sounds big....
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Look how big a hose it takes. It's also about 7 meters so can't run a single 2LPH arrow properly. Useless.


There are methods to make these under performing pumps deliver equally to all you emitters. Equal length pipework and such. However, the 30-40$ founntain stuff, with just a meter or two of pressure, is woefully inadequate. Leading to people taking their emitters off and leaving the drip lines wide open.

Most home growers wanting to drip, would be well served by the netafim PCJ range of PC drippers, that deliver their rated output when given anything from 5 meters to 30 meters of pressure.

PCJ-LCNL drippers need a bit more to get started. They want 7 meters before they regulate properly. This is because they don't open at all until 1.2 meters. This is good... if your barrel has a head of water, not over 1.2 meters higher than your emitters, the barrel won't be able to siphon through them. Your anti-syphon measures are taken care of by the emitters themselves. This is where that 8 meter pump people are choosing, really makes sense.
For those not used to a working system, 2L emitters (red) don't drip, they trickle. There is little reason to go any bigger at any single position.


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It's an odd position to be in. The very best of the cheap pumps is only just capable of running the least demanding of the professional emitters. Only through careful matching, can we now make a professionally respectable system, on hobby funding allowances. Without some real head scratching.
 

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exploziv

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Is there any way to get a 24VDC input pump that will run both off solar power and batteries? Can anyone measure the real power draw on one of those dc pumps? I was planning to use an older clean water pump I had, about 500W AC power, but seems like that would be an inefficient use of electricity. I just need 1.5 to 2 bars of pressure for 2 sq meters or so, maybe up to 40 x 2L/hour rated drippers in total.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
When a motor is spinning, it's wires are passing through magnetic fields. That's a generator. There is an unseen battle within a motor, where it's also a generator. We must put in more power, than is coming out, in order to use it as a motor. It's a cancellation thing. We say there is back emf, an electron motive force, in the wrong direction. We have to use a fair bit of pressure (voltage) to shove power in, working against this power that we inadvertently generate.
When we first switch on, we have our usual voltage, but as yet, no movement. No back emf. Nothing to counteract. We get a big wedge of power through it as the magnetic fields build up, to stop this inrush.
Due to this, we see a reasonable rating on the motors, but that inrush can be higher. It's duration effected by things like, is it pumping something that's going to slow it's acceleration further.
It's always a good idea to oversize the PSU, if you expect that psu to switch on already connected to the motor. If however the PSU is on, then afterwards connected to the motor, it generally has a bit of a reservoir in reserve.
On that tip, I have a relay between psu and pump, to delay the pumps connection until the psu has had a moment to power up a bit. No timer. Just a relay. The time taken for the relays armature to move is my delay timer. It's wired such that the psu must flick the relay, which then connects the psu to the pump. Tiny delay, but electrons.. well light speed.


To run off battery, I would use a pair of 12v sealed lead acid, and charge each with 12v solar charger aimed at car battery maintenance. Very common.. Very cheap. You could also add a mains powered trickle charger, the kind that's doing nothing unless the battery gets low. So it hopefully never does anything, but it's there. Then, from your batteries, a 1 second interval timer that works on 24v https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33026726217.html

Edit: Them timers are golden. I run as much as I can 12v. Those timers make it possible. They are like a secret weapon. A 1 second interval is rare enough. Finding on that runs on DC is the golden egg. Then at a few dollars... it's just out there on it's own. I have rows of them filling and dosing. Using 12v pumps and valves
 

GenghisKush

New member
I automate my system with a Raspberry Pi flipping 10 A relays in front of a 1 A, 24 V Meanwell power supply, all mounted on a DIN rail in a plastic enclosure. This has been very reliable so far! 24 W has been enough power for the small pump I use.

I think I might have skipped all that fuss had I known about these 1-second-interval timers. Still, it's convenient to be able to switch several circuits (lights included) programmatically with a single control device.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
I use Octabubblers rated 20-60psi

I might try the JT-1000BT 24V 17m. That link you posted is the same price I listed.
Do you know what the thread size is?

Have you seen the topspin 12 ? Same thing, but just needs a bar. They always provide a T piece to insert them into 20 or 25mm lines, but they have that same female thread underneath. At 1 Bar, they are much easier to cater for. They have 12 outlets but provide 8 caps, so you could swap them like for like with what you have. The Octabubblers are very demanding. You could run twice the water through topspin's before that pumps 17 meters dropped below 10, rather than 13
20-25mm pipe is unrealistic with a household grow. I downsize to garden hose.
They say Medusa make them, but I swear it's digg https://www.alchimiaweb.com/en/topsp...oduct-7038.php

EDIT: Yes it's Dig and they actually run from 10-60 psi. Below 10 they just open up. So as line pressure drops each emitter opens enough to let any dirt that missed the filter, get out though the valve.
https://www.digcorp.com/homeowner-dr...manifold-kits/


10psi makes sense. I had 5 spin 12's on a 14m pump that broke (different range of pumps) so the 10 meter went in as an emergency repair, and worked perfectly. Which always had me head scratching. I thought they self cleaned at 10psi. Which in theory, would of stopped my pump ever building up past that.



Perhaps the topspin 12 should be a consideration for the home grower looking at 12 emitters (for 4 plants) using a 8 meter+ pump. I think that's what I would do, if I just wanted to order some bits and push a hosepipe on 4 or 5 barbed spigots (pump to filter, filter to hose barb, screwed into the topspin)
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
ANTI SIPHON

I have shown a 12v solenoid valve solution, for about 10$ in other threads. Here, I would like to look at a simple version.

This is a sprung check valve. We can buy plastic ones cheaply, but this pic is useful
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Water can't flow down through that, ever. It's a one-way valve.
Water can flow up through it, but to do so, must stretch the spring. The spring is the important bit, though it's hard to see sat in a cup above the nut.

Here is another
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In this case, water flowing right to left, would aid the spring in moving that little mushroom head over an orifice we can't actually see to the left.
Water can flow left to right, but in this case, must defeat the spring by compressing it.

In either construction, water pressure must overcome spring pressure before water can flow.

I use this as an anti siphon valve. My tank rarely has over a meter of head, while my pump has 10 meters. My pump easily opens this valve, but the weight of trying to siphon can't.
This of course requires a spring strong enough to stop the siphon, but not stop the pump. While any effort to open the valve is lost pressure. This sounds like an impossible battle.

I have had good results with the hozelock non-return valve No:2181
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It's actually 2 in 1 and keeps with my liking of quick release garden stuff. It will stop a siphon with a couple of meters of head, but if you just have a low tank (a meter) you can physically smash one of the valves out, or, slip a bit of cable tie around it's side to prop it open. I have a few of these. At times I have screwed them straight together. So I do tend to smash a valve out and then use two where one isn't enough.

Cheaper, may be to start adding these, one after another, until you get it perfect. Each valve will open at 50cm, by the spec. So you might need 3 of them, with a 1.5m high water butt.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002612853179.html
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This 50cm will be typical, but be sure to get sprung. At least one there isn't. You can tell by the body if there is a diaphragm and spring in there.

If you need 13mm, then you can buy the 12mm and some 12mm pipe. You only need to slip a bit of 12mm over the 12mm bard, then it's a 14mm barb. At which point your 13mm pipe can go in hot water, to get it over the 14mm. Solvent welding pvc hoses is very permanent. The 13 won't come off the 12

Siphoning tanks are a mare. Don't forget this very important part of the build. It's what stops many people in their tracks.
 

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exploziv

pure dynamite
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Is the one way valve so that the water doesn't continue flowing after pump is turned off, because of gravity? I get they are important, I may have missed where you use it and why.
With an older system of mine, I was using an NC liquid/gas relay on the same line with the pump, powered at same time. No power = no leak. You probably guessing why I had to do this.. well its cause it happened to me before to have the res leak throught the pump.
Sorry if you mentioned this and I am just too high to find or understand it.l!
 
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