2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

[~Shhh~]

hey toke have a look at this thread when you get a min may help with that 'bolting' issue your having with the cola's.

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=210039&hl=buds+stretching

 

[original Blues]

Are you saying the Blueberry is not being adversely affected?


Toke

tokes, sorry so far every strain is suffering the same issue.

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks Shhh, yeah I`ve had similar happen to a sativa I grew by accident! Someone told me it was a 7-9 weeker, they went 13-15 weeks and foxtailed all the way through. Lovely weed, real afghani hash flavour and hit, but never again. 8-10weeks max for me.

I`ve also seen them stretch in the tops with heat stress before, but I`ve no such issues going on at the mo.

This stretch has stopped I reckon, I haven`t seen any difference in them for 3-4 days. Hopefully that`ll be it and they`ll start to fill up.

Hey Scroger, yeah could be full time tucking those leaves and then repositioning them all, but I`ll get amongst them every 3 days or so and switch what I can around.

I reckon some of the colas are a bit densely packed in some areas and too light in others, but of course I cant just move them to where I want, but I reckon with some careful work I`ll be able to at least separate a few of the bigger ones that are right up against each other and let them breathe a bit more and get more light to the leaves.

Hey O Blues, how did it go? did you manage to get some bottled water and Calmag?

I was wondering how your res is doing? Is the nute strength rising, and is the ph drifting much? I`ve also switched to drain to waste after years of growing recirculating, I`m pretty sure recirculating is not ideal for coco and I think when you hit problems such as water quality or def/lock-outs are compounded to some extent by this. Its really a lot easier for the grower and I feel better for the plants to feed drain to waste with a good amount of run off. Very simple to set up or adapt a set-up to it, well worth thinking about mate.

Toke ;-)

 

[coneheadSA]

Great setup tokesome scrog seems too be the way too go cant wait too see the finished product


Cone

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks Conehead.

I`m still finding little bits of moisture between leaves in the crowded canopy, and the RH is down to 17-19%, it is only little bits, but I`d like to get on top of this before it gets late into flower when mold is a threat. It looks like I`ll have to have some more fans deployed to bring air flow through the denser areas of the screen. I`ll either go with pipes connected to 3 of the inline 4inch fans that I showed on page 8, or use them without pipes connected beneath the canopy blowing air up from floor level and through the denser areas of the canopy. I`ve just got to suss out a way of wiring them up. They just have two black leads coming off each one so I`m assuming they can be wired either way round.

Here are a few more pics, Scroger this is what I mean by the growth shoots to the tips of the tops, as I said they dont appear to be getting any longer, max length about 2 inches, but you can see how tiny the buds on the stem are and they look a bit deformed and scrawny. I`m still hopeful they`ll fill out, and if not I hope they`ll be sitting on top of fat colas

The lighting has caught this one a bit oddly, but man does it show the resin build up well.

Another cola with the odd top

Across some tops

I`ll mix up a fresh res and will aim for ec1.6 and then add molasses at a reduced rate of something like 1/2tsp per 4ltrs, but this wont be added to the res but added to each watering can at feeding time.

Its gonna be a latish feed for them tmro as I`m in the studio recording with my band all day, so it`ll be an evening feed for them.

Cheers Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

Good idea not putting the molasses into the rez, that mess is just a right PITA... I bought some EJ sugar peak catalyst which has molasses and other goodies in it, designed for cir & hydro so hopefully I won't have to deal with the funk anymore... we'll see.... anyway was pretty cheap all things considered £11 for 1L (enough for 650L of water). Might wanna give it a try bro if you wanna go back to set & forget feed wise

 

[Tokesome]

Hey I was just mixing my res up when I noticed that the part B of the Canna coco A+B has some precipitation, there are long shards of what I assume are crystals. What do you think would precipitate in this way and why?

Its new 10ltr cartons that I bought off of ebay, wondering if its still safe to use, or whether this will cause a shortage of something, any ideas??

Hey Shhh, yeah its defo the way to use the messy shit, molasses, a simple but time and cleaning saving idea. Bonecarver threw that one up for me. I mix the mollasses into 700mls of hot water, let it cool a little, and add 50mls to each 1 and a 1/2 liter feed before it goes into each individal pot. Even if I was running a dripper system, which I intend to have for the next grow, I think I`d still feed molasses by hand a couple of times a week just to avoid the godawful mess the stuff makes in yer res.

Toke ;-)

 

[original Blues]

tokesome: got a idea to move a little more air through the canopy, get a 125mm+ inline add a peace of ducting to match the length of the canopy and stuff the end of the ducting and cut some holes in the ducting. so you have the in line fan and ducting lay across the floor ducting streched out with holes size of golf balls cut out the ducting holes facing up to the canopy. Hope you get the idea with all my crap grammer LOL.

Well regarding the mineral water and cal mag i couldnt lay my hands on the cal mag but got some mineral water added my nutes. got home 2nite found the leaves have lifted slightly which was a good sign but looked at the roots i have snapped one of the main roots doing the change over! FOOK!!

Maybe if the water is ok and a dead main root maybe the plant will push new root growth?? LOL not my luck

 

[Tokesome]

tokesome: got a idea to move a little more air through the canopy, get a 125mm+ inline add a peace of ducting to match the length of the canopy and stuff the end of the ducting and cut some holes in the ducting. so you have the in line fan and ducting lay across the floor ducting streched out with holes size of golf balls cut out the ducting holes facing up to the canopy. Hope you get the idea with all my crap grammer LOL.

Well regarding the mineral water and cal mag i couldnt lay my hands on the cal mag but got some mineral water added my nutes. got home 2nite found the leaves have lifted slightly which was a good sign but looked at the roots i have snapped one of the main roots doing the change over! FOOK!!


Maybe if the water is ok and a dead main root maybe the plant will push new root growth?? LOL not my luck

It`d be good to find some cal and mg replacement for the bottled water, does it give a mineral spec on the label? Molasses would do it, and I`m sure if you do a search for molasses calmag as I read a post where some guy used it instead of clamag with good results, just a thought. I`m sold on the theory of molasses as an addy tho, just waiting to sample the result in a few weeks time.

Yeah thanks for the idea, I may just rig something like that up, similar to a suggestion from Scrogerman, I like the idea of stuffing the end and holes in the ducting. I could actually fix it to the underneath of the screen holes pointing out at an angle to both sides. I have a 125mm hanging up but not in use. I just lent a 100mm RKV out too, doh!

I hope your plants respond like mine did to the water change, I`m preety hopeful for you, seeing as you`ve been through everything else and banging yer head against the wall, try and get a cal mg boost to go with it and give yer plants the best chance, like to bring it between ec0.2-0.4, then go with yer nutrients as per usual.

Anyone any comments about the part B nutrient having the long bits of shit in it??

Cheers Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Day 44/63 dirty photos!!

Day 44/63 dirty photos!!

I have my mate`s camera at the mo so I took some dirty pictures of my ladies for ya to look at

The resin build up is looking lickably lovely. The weird growth at the top puzzles me and they`ve slowed down in bud production, but there`s nearly 3 weeks till the target 63 days so there`s plenty of time for these girls to get plump. I`m watching them a bit too intently at the mo, and need to relax a bit.

The plants are all looking healthy, the resin is crazily intense and I`m confident I`ll bring in a good crop of yummy cheese.

I like to watch em though, and little wonder, its the first time I`ve had healthy plants at this stage for 3 grows. Would like to resolve the stress issue though.

Weird top

When I mixed the feed today I gave molasses individually as described above, a bit of a mess about, but not as much as cleaning the scum out of the res every 3 days!! Only thing is, I forgot to add the Atazyme. No biggie to be without it for a feed though and will add some to the remainder of the res tmro. I`ve never re-used coco before, but I may try it this time so want to make sure the zym product is maintained especially when the plant comes to an end and root matter dies off at a quicker rate. It should be a matter of filling the new pots with it and flush them through with ec1.2 until showing the same run off and away you go. I dont think there is any need for sterilisation etc. Correct me if I`m wrong here though.

Cheers Toke

 

[Jozix]

Hello I need the help of the pros once again! I bought an ec pen since I've started new plants in coco so I've bought myself a ph pen aswell (no problems with that).
My ec pen has a small '100' in the top left of the screen, the main part of the display is taken by 2 digits.
The ec metre did come with simple instructions but with no directions on how to interpreting the readings???
My question is: does the 100 mean that I should multiply the 2 numbers that apear by 100???
I made a nutrient solution according to the label & it gave me a reading of 35, does that mean that the ec of that mix is 3500????? because I know that that is about double what it should be right? Since I grow in coco I read that I should keep it under 1200

Am I missing something obvious here? I tried a week diluted mix of the worm juice from my worm farm that I usualy mix stronger for my normal vegies & that still gave me about 20 = 2000

Please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[original Blues]

tokesome: the last whiteberry in the oxy the leafs did start to reach to the lights but the damage to the root was far to big so i chopped it down there was a decent amount of bud so I have put it in with my cannabutter mix. I used the finest trim of my blueberry 250g and 50g of whiteberry bud to 500g of butter 2 cups of water fingers crossed bannaa cake with a kick at the weekend lol.

Well all is not lost with a new project in the planning 2mx2mx2m with all the trimmings lol

 

[original Blues]

hay tokkesome re my new water supply .93p/5ltr
mg/l
calcium 22
pottassium 7
mg 2
sodium 75
biocarb 280
chloride 15
sulphate 11
nitrates <0.01
ph source 7.8

i dont know if i would need calmag with this would I??

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Josix, hardly a pro here mate, just a lil guy being respectful and trying hard. It sounds like 35 is ec3.5 and is way way too high, generally 1.2-1.6 is what I`d go for, but I know others that stay below 1,2 all through the grow. My meter reads in the same way, no deci point. Be wary if you got it cheap from ebay, they can be really crap, like a ph pen with no trim screw for calibration, though gives instructions on how to adjust using the trim screw, the ec meter read totally different to what it should have read.

I have mine on 1.8 now at full PK13/14 dose, this will come back down to somewhere around 1.4-1.6 next week. I keep an eye on the leaf tips for burning from overnuting. I find that running with RO water and drain to waste my plants will handle a higher ec with no burnt tips, compared to my tap water in a recirculating system.

I`m not sure I do right to feed so high, just saying how its getting done here at the mo, I plan to experiment with feed strengths (lower) and regimes next grow and see what I can learn from it.

Hey O Blues, mmm I`m certainly not the one to tell you if that water needs Calmag, but if you check around the different supermarkets I know you can get ph6.4 at source, I found that water easier to work with than the higher ph stuff. Probably worth asking with a new thread in the appropriate forum about whether you need the calmag.

You keeping the blueberry going or you scrapping the whole grow? I reckon you should find out if the water solves your problems before you start another grow, what you thinking??

Cheers Toke ;-)

 

[spleebale]

Original Blues: I think I have had the same problem based on the apparent Mg problem showing/progressing in the leaves. Do me a favor: look REALLY well into the root system. If you can look at the bare roots directly, look for little black spots that look like flecks of pepper or dirt. If you can only look at the medium, look for the same thing on specks of rockwool or tap the sides of pots vigorously in soil or coco and watch VERY carefully to see if there is anything almost microscopic moving. IF you have a jeweler's loupe or a magnifying glass is may help. I have just found Root aphids yesterday which I really knew nothing about but which seem to be building up in numbers to cause me major deficiency-looking symptoms by late veg such that my blooms are essentially ruined. -At least I think this is the problem, based on the Root Aphid threads I have been reading and my inability to make it better by treating it as a Magnesium deficiency. I think they do serious damage to the roots, causing/inviting other root pathogens which hinder the plants ability to uptake magnesium (as it needs a large, healthy root-mass to do so). This is my theory on my problem anyhow, after extensive reading.
Please report back and good luck!

If it is not that (you can't find ANY elusive, tiny bugs in the root areas, then it is probably just that you have too high of bicarbonate levels - supplement with a cal mg product (I am guessing 3-6 ml/gal) and get an RO unit or use other water if possible.

Good luck!

 

[original Blues]

Tokesome: Im starting a little research on water never really worried about it b4 ive always been good to get me water straight out the tap leave to stand for 24hrs mix and feed with no issues. But I suppose I can look at this as learning experience as they say knowledge can only make you stronger! expensive at that lol!!!

Well ive chopped the 20 blueberry down already they are drying, I ran them for the full 9 weeks and a bloody good flush hung them to dry yesterday. But what I did notice, when removing the root ball I found the the roots had barley grown into the new medium after they where repotted. they had grown down ito the pot but not really filling the coco but the sides of the new medium only had a few main root stems running through it also the root colour was slightly brown?

my pots are only 7.5 ltr I would normally expect them to be full almost root bound but apears that root growth has stunted a week or so after going into flower as these plants where repotted 3-4 days b4 flowering??

spleebale' thanks for your comments i have just removed all my root balls from the pots yesterday ive kept my root balls after shaking the excess coco as im getting a magnifing glass today to see if i have any creepy crawlies in the roots as i have been getting a lot of gnat flies and a few yellow sticky pads better extraction fans they vertiually dissapeared but after i started removing the plants from the room and removing the coco from the pots loads of gnat flies appeared.

But before the grow the whole grow area was spotless every nook and cranny cleaned with bleach new coco but I am gonna be looking into your aphid therory today ill keep you posted.

 

[Tokesome]

Wow "root aphids" lets hope not eh? Hey Speebale, have you found the answer to getting rid of the little buggers.

Gnats alone if in high enough numbers can be enough to fuck with the root zone and encourage bad pathogens, but there does have to be a shitload proper infestation, usually they`re not too hard to control.

Or Blues, Your root balls sound just like mine did last grow, look impressive around the side of the pot, but no root mass as you penetrate the medium, I have photos of them up here somewhere, but cant remember which post I put em up in, if I find em I`ll let you know. I do know that it led me to make a variety of improvements. I think the perched water table becomes a really bad thing when problems are about and is compounded by poor tap water, def plants and gnats love it. It really made me go for a more dialled in feeding sety up. I now have moved from 7ltr pots to 12-14ltr pots and have them raised 3inches off the ground and have wicks in the bottom of each pot, going 2-3 inches into the medium and hanging just off the ground below, which do work brilliantly at reducing the perched water table, they just carry on drip drip dripping the excess away, I then fed them pretty much exactly what they needed by hand for the whole grow after changing from recirculating to drean to waste. I`ll switch back to auto feed set up next grow though, so as I can leave for a few days here and there. I suspect my roots are in root heaven now, the plants tell me the roots are happy but I cant pull one till the end of the grow as they`re scrogged, they used to be exactly as you described yours though.

I think the RO filter route and calmag would solve your problems along with some tuning in, so long as you haven`t got root aphids as mentioned above. I reckon you`d be able to tell fairly early on if you feed a couple of plants (at least) with RO or bottled water and comparing, although if I were you I definitely get a RO filter and make the switch, I think you`d be a happy chappy again in 3 months or so. They`re cheap enough and yer weed and sanity is worth it mate.

Gnats, I`ve always managed to control them with the sticky yellow plastic cards, but reading around this forum I notice that other people use a layer of sharp sand on top of the pots and this prevents the gnats from penetrating your medium and the larvae from surviving. I reckon I`d do this if they were unmanageable. I dont think they like sulphur bombs. . . . . but neither do I, they`d be the last last last resort.

What do you have planned for the next grow? If you have cuttings going now, why not feed them with bottled water except for just a couple left on tap water. The difference would probably be apparent within a week or so as I suspect the couple on tap water would look considerably worse off in growth rate etc., and would be an easy way of determining your water issues. My cuttings have never looked so good, text book perfect.

RO unit, 125GPD (galls per day membrane) less than a hundred quid and 15 mins to install, I think it would make a lot of apparently good grows even better.

Speebale, I hope you get on top of the root aphids. Let us know what you do to exterminate them eh?

Toke ;-)

 

[original Blues]

Speebale:well after clearing the stems and shit today I came across a bag of dead cuttings jiffy puks and general waste plant matter opened the bag and there was shit loads of gnat flys. They got sealed up and dumped so i need to get on top of these asap heading down the shop 2moz and get some fly spray. Only 2-3 squirts usually does the trick good for thrips as well spray along the floor of the room to prevent direct spray on the the plants or medium. Turn of in&out fans for 10 mins let your movment fans do the work.

Had a good rumage around the roots today but the neighbours called over who we need to keep sweet lol, so i didnt get the chance to get the microscope on the roots but its gonna be checked 2moz after helping trim my pals cheese plants.

Tokesome:
Well the next grow is shit or bust grow for me running 2 600w lights a 1200w oil heater and all the other shit for fook all return and on top of that not alot of work its killing me. So a pal is putting in some cash to get this up and running. Nothing set in stone so any ideas or input would be fab. defo gonna use 11ltr pots run to waste drippers ROOM 1 L3m x w2.5m x H1.9m so we are looking at 12plants per Msq 11ltr pots sat in nft trough run to waste.
(covering 6msq) Light lay out not sure yet I already have 2 600w cool tubes 2 400w normal refelctors x1 3.5 light mover. so for ease im inclined to go with x6 600watt lights or 2 600s at the end of the room and 1 600w on the light mover in the middle. But height is a issue so i will make the most of some 6inch netting and a bit of srogging.

Room 2 I have a 2.4x1.2x2 grow tent 2 600watts 1msq i have a 20 pot wilma swstem using the same drip method but using the larger 11ltr pots which will fit 16 plants and the other 1msq gonna possibly throw in 10 oxy pots. All the cuttings are coming throu at the mo but i need to strip the old growroom out and expand whilst we are vegging

trying to keep it cheap but gotta get the right bits defo need
osmosis kit, 4 new lights, 6 way eco switch 150fan & carbon filters not done a full list yet but im about to start later Iam gonna set up a thread for this.

Cuttings are ak47, cheese, whiteberry, hasberry,bluberry most of them will be hashberry think im gonna save the oxy's for the ak want a bumper crop. wanna get them in before the summer really kicks in as i think heat will be a issue for room 1.
The wife has finished making the bannaa cakes with my canna butter in lol peace out

 

[original Blues]

All the cuts in the areoponics chamber and mother are now on mineral water getting on the net tonight for cal mag. Do you thing britta filtered water would do the trick if i was to run out of bottled water?

 

[Tokesome]

Man, the bag full of dying plant matter and gnats, that`s just really bad. . . . . but I`ve been as sloppy once or twice in my time, so I know what that`s like Time to tidy up tho eh? especially if someone is fronting up for you.

You sound like you`ve got some great plants coming together, and good to here you`re on the mineral water, they wont need large amounts of cal or mg whilst rooting anyway. You gonna grow in Coco and oxypots then?

I dont think Britta will do much though it may help if desperate. You`d notice a difference if any with yer ec/ppm meter. I`d get on the case with an RO filter and dont run out in the meantime.

I`d maybe re think yer extraction, I`ve upped mine to a 200mm RVK (the higher powered 200mm, there are two different ratings) and huge filter and now I can handle 4 lights this time of year in the uk, in the summer though it`lll barely cope with 3 lights, my room is just about the same in dimensions as yours. I dont use cooled hoods for the lights (yet) though, and this will make a difference for you. You can always turn one down that has ample power.

I dont use a heater in my room, and the lights are off at night, so my minimum temps are probably way below the ideal. Not sure even what the ideal night temp would be, I imagine 65-70f, mine is probably around 50-60f. A friend growing in an insulated loft has been getting really low temps of 40-41f, but yield was pretty good and it encouraged the bud to turn purple towards the end.

Hey dont let summer come too quick OR blues, get the flowering rooms up and running as the plants are vegging, that`s yer deadline right there surely??

Toke ;-)