2x3meter, 15 plant, 1800watt cheesey scrog

[Tokesome]

day 33/63 flower

day 33/63 flower

Everything seems to be going ok in the garden. Day 33 and I`m still finishing off my B`cuzz A+B, before changing back to the Canna A+B. I`ll probably switch over next res which will be in a couple of days.

I`m going to try and get some Blackstrap Molasses tmro along with an aquarium heater to warm my nutes up a couple of degrees. Its sitting slightly under 16c at the mo, unheated.


Any of you UK guys know where Blackstrap Molasses can be bought?

I`m feeding with Calmax to ec0.3 A+B to ec1.2 and Pk13/14 to bring it up to ec1.4 I`ve decided to back off slightly on the nutrients, though this figure will go up a little further next res change for week six as the PK13/14 is increased to 10-12mls per 10ltrs depending on how much the Molasses, assuming I can find some affects the ec, I`m giving them 8mls PK13/14 per 10ltrs presently. I`m also using Atazyme at full strength.

I cant locate any Panela anywhere in the UK, hence me going with Molasses.

Here`s a pic of a cola taken on day 31. The resin build up is very impressive, some leaves are totally covered already, so it looks like I`ll be in for some real treats with BHO and butter in a few weeks. Its markedly more resin for this stage than the last three grows.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Looking real good there Toke, lovely healthy Green colour! Which Cheese is it you are doing?(sorry if i have asked before) Gotta love the Cheese bro, its up there with the best of em thats for sure! What has'nt Cheese got? Good luck with the switch over to Canna, i'd be thinking again there tbh, they look perfect as it is, look forwards to your next panoramic pics! G;'Luck
Peace & Respect..........Scroger'

 

[stretch420]

UR GROW SOUNDS GOOD AND LOOKS BETTER!! IM DOING A SCROG GROW AT THE MINUTE . I HAVE DONE A FEW!! i have found over trial and error that plant numbers and veg time are all important !!! but now i got this locked hopefully ??!! i run two 2 metre long nft tanks over a 4m2 sreeen the first few times i went abit long on the veg and had two many plants in them so i had to do some major trimming too open the canope!!! did well but have done better since with less plant numbers!! i use 4x600watt hps with 8x250watt flurocents for late on in flower as side lighting !! at the minute im running chiesel smells real nice and to me having run the clone only cheese ( many moons ago ) and having run alot of the bbs crosses that chiesel looks the closest to the shape and form and smell of the orginal clone but i will admit the taste of the clone only was the lick and this chiesel has a strong taste and is cheesy with a grapefriut fuel undertones!!!

well hope all is good on ur side of the fence?? AND U REAP THE FRUIT OF THE GODS PEACE !!
STRETCH !! 420 !! OUT

 

[~Shhh~]

Hi toke, looks very frosty that last shot, X-treme early resin build up man... that will be caked once all's said and done!

The molasses can be had at any good health food shop, ie: Holland & Barrats etc, the most popular one seems to be 'Meridian Unsulphured Blackstrap Molasses'. Cost about £1.89 cheapest additive I have ever bought

I'm also interested to hear what cheese this is, looks a lil' like Big Buddhas?

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks guys, I was told which Cheese it is, but it was well over a year ago and I`ve forgotten. I`ll try and track the details down for ya.

Thanks Shhh, I`ll get myself down there now and gety me some.

Cheers Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Thanks Shhh, I got some Meridian organic blackstrap molasses from H&B, its unsulphered, though it doesn`t say so on the label, but all checks out on their website, they had the "natural" Molasses which is unsulphered too, but I gather the blackstrap is the one to have which is from the 3rd sucrose crystallizing process, and thus the concentration of the nutrients is greater.

It only mentions Calcium and Iron on the label, and its in percentage of daily recommended amounts, though it obviously has many other minerals and beneficials. You can find the typical elements that are found in Molasses by googling it easily.

I`ve no idea how much to add to my nutrient res, and how much to lower my A+B nutes to compensate. I`m going to have a search through the forum for any molasses in coco growing info I can glean.

Hey Scrogger, I do take yer point, I cant see the nutrient change will hurt them, I think it might taste a litle different but hopefully they`ll like it and take it up like good girls. I`ve used it with no issues before and I know 3 other grows that are on the same strain using Canna with no problems. I accept there is a small risk of them noticing a difference with a negative outcome, but I think its very slight and I`ll be keeping a hawk like eye on there performance after the change. They probably notice a change after adding any additive, but hopefully if it has all the plants requirements and you feed wisely, all should be ok, no? Lets hope it continues in the same vain after the change eh?

 

[Tokesome]

I got myself an aquarium heater and now have the res sitting at 20c ready for mixing tmro. Not sure about the perfect feeding temps, but I thought 16c was a little low, though the plants look good on it.

Canna recommend 20c for mixing their nutrients, and some one on another thread said 18c was the most universal temp for feeding.

The thermostatic heater is 150 watts and will set the temp from 18c up to far too hot! So I`m going to have it set around 18-20c. I could do with one for each res, but will manage with just the one for now and move it from one res to the other, as only one is in use at a time.

I`m sure I`ll be looking for a method to cool the res in the warmer months, but hopefully this will be a useful bit of fine tuning for the colder months.

I`m going to add Molasses to the nutrient mix when mixing a fresh res up tmro @ 1 teaspoon per 4 liters. Still dont understand exactly what I`m doing to the overall NPK by adding it, but it seems a lot of people use it for a flowering additive or throughout entire grows. I`m hoping to give beneficials to the microbial life and thus help with the uptake of nutrients and to enhance the aroma and flavour of the bud.

The colas just look better and better, they`re already up to 9 inches long and the tips of them are now shooting off with buds hugging them. Another 4 weeks to go and if these plants carry on performing without any issues, or affects from earlier issues, I can see this being my best grow I can remember in many years growing.

I`m not a greedy guy though and an average yield would put a big smile on my face, especially after having what seems to have been a cursed year. I still worry a bit, as you cant count chickens till they`ve hatched, but I have to say my confidence is really high.

I`ll defo try and borrow my mate`s camera in the next day or so and get some quality pics up. I`ve got a new dogs bollocks phone lately with a great camera on it {for a phone that is), but with sodiums on it just has shadow stripes going throughout the picture. Prob something to do with the HD shooting. Ooh I miss my digi SLR!!

Cheers Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Bro'
I think you'll be just fine on the switch over dude, i always am if i do it in hydro, maybe a little flush & then infuse your new solution/mix in, that may help, but i think you'll be just fine bro'
Yeah dude res temps are very important as you know, i always look at it in respect of D'O(Dissolved Oxygen), its funny because the same temps are also optimal for our beloved MJ, they are 65f(min) to 72f(max), optimal being 68-70f (70f=21c) for Maximum D'O & the prefered optimal temp range for roots. So a good idea with the stick-tube heater, i always use them even in summer, it can get cooler than you think at lights out in ya Res, so its a good idea to have a heater in there for piece of mind.
You know this thread by HazyLady- its the best most informative thread i have ever seen on the use of Mollases & other addy's to, but there is everything you need to know about mollases in this thread, its just real real long but dont let that put you off, if you flick throgh you'll find everything you need. All quantitys and measures are towards the end of the thread, they are all the way through but come about 15 pages lol, back from the end and start there & you'll be about right i think, its a bloody good thread, here you go::

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=136037

With your phone camera, take a large piece of cardboard in your growroom with you and position it just under the light(or get a helping hand) and try that, works for me bro'

Peace,Respect & Best Vibes,..............Scroger'

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Bro'
I think you'll be just fine on the switch over dude, i always am if i do it in hydro, maybe a little flush & then infuse your new solution/mix in, that may help, but i think you'll be just fine bro'
Yeah dude res temps are very important as you know, i always look at it in respect of D'O(Dissolved Oxygen), its funny because the same temps are also optimal for our beloved MJ, they are 65f(min) to 72f(max), optimal being 68-70f (70f=21c) for Maximum D'O & the prefered optimal temp range for roots. So a good idea with the stick-tube heater, i always use them even in summer, it can get cooler than you think at lights out in ya Res, so its a good idea to have a heater in there for piece of mind.
You know this thread by HazyLady- its the best most informative thread i have ever seen on the use of Mollases & other addy's to, but there is everything you need to know about mollases in this thread, its just real real long but dont let that put you off, if you flick throgh you'll find everything you need. All quantitys and measures are towards the end of the thread, they are all the way through but come about 15 pages lol, back from the end and start there & you'll be about right i think, its a bloody good thread, here you go::

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=136037

With your phone camera, take a large piece of cardboard in your growroom with you and position it just under the light(or get a helping hand) and try that, works for me bro'

Peace,Respect & Best Vibes,..............Scroger'

Thanks Scrogger, I`ll take a look at the thread, but as I`ve just been explaining to Mistress over on another thread, I`m crap at the maths and science and easily get lost in the banter about all the figures. I`ve never gone down the root of adding flowering additives, except for PK13/14, and know very little about it. I just want to know what dose is best/safe to give when adding it to the feed I give them, and maybe the roll of sugars, carbs etc to the plant and medium, this case coco.

Mistress gets straight into the maths, but she`s been helpful by reassuring me that 1 teaspoon per 4 ltrs will not be harmful and only beneficial. It really is one cheap additive, and a big part of many flower addy`s I think. I`ll try them with it for the last 4 weeks and see if I can see and smell the benefit.

Yeah its been on my mind to get a heater for these 90ltr res for a while, but been/am really skint so have had to wait till now. I knew 16c was below the ideal, tho as I said, you wouldn`t think it to look at them. Its fine tuning though, and want to give them as near perfection as I can.

I`d need 4 pieces of card under my lights, but yeah good idea, I`ll give something like that a try mate.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Scrogger, these are the wee 4" inline fans I mentioned that will be useful if I need cool worms in my canopy if I need to take further action. I`ve got very little transpiration leaf to leaf now, the leaves are reaching upwards nicely and the fans on the canopy seem to be doing their job, though I expect some raggy leaves due to the wind battering, better that than mold later on though eh?

They`re steel cased and feel like quality little fans, they`d defo be ideal for the job.

Toke ;-)

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Toke,
Yeah man, Mistress' Really knows her stuff ah buddy! Some of what she says aint exactly helpfull to laymens, but i really rate her style myself, she brings some fantastic issues to the table, & 9 times outta 10 she has the answers too-all of 'em!, 'it aint just a quick explination with M' she really goes into alot of detail. Listen to her buddy,shes a clever one that one! fair play to her,she's cool man!

Yeah Fans, thems the little beauties!, they come in all shapes and sizes, but that size(100mm) fit perfect with a little gentle persuasion in the 4" dryer hose, seal with Gaffa, connect up-Sorted!, I even see them with heat sensors which kick in to max speed when it gets to a set temp! very handy little fans, usefull in awkward spots & for making the CoolWorms, im sure my mate has a patent pending on them ones lol- he was pretty proud of his idea! I can tell you if you knock some together you will be impressed man, Especially when warmer ambient temps pay us a visit later in the year! Those plus some extra passive intakes works great for me in a 'm2', i noticed a difference straight away & temps fell & were more controlable just by either using more worms or taking them away/ switching them on & off etc! Ducting cooler air in makes a big difference. Have a play sometime. G'luck!
Peace..........Scroger'

 

[Tokesome]

Molasses, OOH what a sticky mess!!

Molasses, OOH what a sticky mess!!

Well I`ve switched back to Canna A+B today, and added Molasses at roughly 1teaspoon per 4ltrs, very roughly though as its not easy to get it out of the jar in level teaspoons, so I went for a slightly heaped teaspoon and counted each one as 2 teaspoons, it looked about right.

I wonder if I may have added a little more than I thought though as my res now looks like a brewing barel of scrumpy cider and has made the res noticeably more viscous. My initial thoughts making me wonder if this is going to affect the perched water table and run off

My nute res is filled with, 90ltrs straight RO water (ec0.0), 80mls Calmax (ec0.3), 130mls Canna coco A+B, (rises to ec1.1), 90mls PK13/14 aka NPK 0-17-18 (rises to ec1.3) 9 double (ish) teaspoons of molasses first mixed in hot water, (ec rises to ec1.6) and finally 180mls Atazyme. It took nearly 5mls ph down to adjust the ph to 5.8.

I`ve given the A+B at ec0.1 less than I`ve been giving and that`s given an ec1.6 to the final res compared to ec1.4 of my last res without the molasses.

An observation with Canna A+B is that it takes around 20% more A+B to achieve the same strength ec as it does with the B`cuzz, and as B`cuzz are cheaper in the first place, this must be a bonus. One thing I didn`t like about the B`cuzz nutes it that they use a paper type material as the caps seal, this soon disitigrates and ends up as several tiny bits of soggy paper in the nutrient, and then the bottles are not sealed properly. Canna have good sealing plastic caps. I think the B`cuzz nutrients have proved themselves quite well going on my plants up to now. I hope the Canna continues to provide the same form.

One thing I was a big surprised to me is that the Molasses raised the ec figure by 0.3. I`m curious to how accurate this is for measuring the actual nutrients present due to the fact that the sugars in the Molasses will surely affect the electrical conductivity and in effect give a higher ec reading of the res, compared to the actual nutrient salts. Can anyone tell me that this is so??

Its just that I`ve given the A+B at ec0.1 less than I`ve been giving and that`s given an ec1.6 to the final res compared to ec1.4 of my last res without the molasses. I was thinking of pushing up the nutes a little, this and maybe next week to around ec1.6 before backing off a bit again in week 8 and then flush in week 9. Is this really raising the nutrient level by ec0.3, or are the sugars giving me a false impression??

Ah well I`m off to feed it to em now.

 

[~Shhh~]

This was the reply I received when questioning the EC rise when adding molasses

3) After adding the 90ml molasses to 60L of water my EC raised by 0.2 is this normal? I understand there are nutes in the molasses but just wanted to check this was about right.

Your ec should rise, you just added sugar instead of salt, your ec meter sees it all the same.

I interpreted this as - the sugar itself rather than nutes is giving the reading

Edit> BTW, I have a pump in my rez mixing circulating nutes (air pump was off) and the molasses started to break down after about 4 days causing a horrid smell... Rez was rinsed with 'eco'- washing up liquid then refilled, I am going to run a test with couple buckets 1 with airstone and 1 with just circ pump to see which lasts longest.

I think this would be the only thing to watch for when using molasses. Not sure if you use airstones in rez as you drip and they are not really that beneficial when dripping but you will defintaley need to keep the mix well circuated to avoid any breakdown probs- unless it was something else that caused the issue???

Will see when tests are complete next week.

 

[Tokesome]

Mmm, makes me wonder if I should up the A+B by another 0.2 or so.

Thanks for dropping that in here for me.

Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Shhh, referring to yer edit, thanks, I`ll keep an eye on that. My 90ltr res will only last for 3 days so hopefully it wont be an issue. I have an air pump, switched off at the mo, but I have a pump permanently circulating my res from the bottom pumping upwards to the surface.

Do ya reckon the airstone will keep thing nice and fresh? I`m still handwatering once daily. I just gave them all a good feed with more than usual run off, just to make sure the plants are well flushed through with the new nutrients and molasses.

I also added a further 20mls A+B raising the ec to 1.7. Next time I`ll mix my nutrients to ec1.6 and ph it before adding the molasses, and see how that goes. Dont want to over fert, dont wanna underfert cunundrum.

Toke ;-)

 

[~Shhh~]

Yeah watch the tips of the plant etc you know the drill re higher EC levels, Coco is cool though and usually takes a couple drenches before I see any burnt tips etc using a higher EC than previous feeds.

I am not sure if the airstone will do any good TBF mistress seemed to think fast recirc was the key from her posts, I suppose more oxy would be beneficial though as maybe will stop breakdown occuring as fast? Not sure as was and still am shite as science lol...

My mate is the one whom got me convinced that molasses was doing something good, his grows just shot up in density, flavor and all round taste & appearance like overnight, he grows in soil (bio bizz) using mainly bio bizz nutes (cept for PK 13/14) then he adds molasses and hey presto the apprentices buds now surpass the sorcerers! WTF!!

After a wee grilling he fesses up to using the molasses! Now were getting somewhere... So I had to give my girls a run on it after some semi-thorough research =] I find the balck strap stuff were both using now. Hopefully my buds taste better than his this time round as he has some Canalope haze that is very very tasty man, gotta be top 5 in taste dept will be hard to surpass but will have a crack.

Anyway, point of bringing up my mate is he starts adding molasses at week 3 bloom then stops before final 7 days flush (uses it with water for 3 days I think, will check).

he does not use it to flush till end as he said that it left a lil taste in the bud when he flushed with it...

 

[Tokesome]

Yeah, I defo want plain water for 4-7 days, after a week of reduced nute`s, unless they`re still building heavily, then they`ll get an extra week to flush anyway, mold permitting of course. Wonder if I`ll notice the difference doing the final flush with RO water, as opposed to tap water, probably not.

The second stretch is well under way now, I`m hoping the molasses is going to be a treat for them.

Ya didn`t get any of the foul smelling breakdown that ya mentioned in the pots, or root zone etc.?

Toke ;-)

 

[~Shhh~]

No foul smell in the pots, I think once it's in there it being used pretty much from the time its added so maybe it get broken down or whatever and all is ok, plus I didn't hit them up with any of the foul water so all was cool, they had the first treat last week and I have had no smell probs or rot from what I can tell (roots out of bottom of pots still white n fluffy.

Posted some thoughts on the molasses thread, the exchange between u & mistress got me thinking about alot of other things, and I had a better look at her answers in the thread.... sometimes it can be a PITA to trawl through the math etc but there are snippets in there that will alow you to calculate what you need to know with the right info to start with.

anyway.... where's those pics!!! wonder if the molasses will make you into an octopus so u can hold up the bits of cardboard n snap a pic at the same time lmao! Seems to do pretty much everything else man I reckon it's worth a shot

 

[Tokesome]

Heh heh, octopus I`ve got to become now eh?

Yeah I misread Mistress, and feel really bad about that. I cant believe I mooned her, albeit with an emoticon. Have apologised and hope she forgives my ignorance and rudeness

I`ve borrowed a digi SLR camera and I`ve got a bunch of lenses, so I`m gonna have fun taking some proper pics over the next couple of days. Quite busy tmro though so prob wont get em posted till Sat, maybe Sun.

Its changing daily in appearance as the second stretch continues and the colas are filling out well I think for the stage they`re at.

Second day with molasses added to the feed, I wont expect to see much difference, though I`ll keep a close eye on them.

One of my plants was giving a run off of ec2.0 which is too high. I`ll be checking them all thoroughly over the next couple of days. Others tested today were ok at ec1.6.

Cheers for now, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Bud growth a bit odd??

Bud growth a bit odd??

Hi, I`ve been busy taking some pics on my mate`s camera so I`ve got quite a lot to show you.

I`ve become a bit concerned with the bud formation on the colas, I thought they`d be starting to take shape a bit more by now, but instead of fattening up they seem to have shot a fairly spindley bit of growth from all of the main tops with the whispiest bit of bud on them, and the over all bud development seems to have slowed right down. It is only day 41 of 63+ so there`s time for them to develop and fulfill their potential, so I`m not panicking, just a bit concerned. I haven`t seen this strain grow like this in any of my mates grows or my own, though with the problems I had with mine, they were nothing to go on. They didn`t shoot off like this in my little grow tent scrog. As you can see from the pictures the overall health of the plants is pretty good so I`m hoping they`ll be coming through for me.

I`ve taken some pics of the tops of the main colas/stems, where I feel they`re stretching a bit oddly.

Any thoughts there?

The resin build up is amazing even many of the bigger leaves are covered, I haven`t seen this strain so resinous as this so early on either.

I`ve nearly been put off the molasses idea, cos of the mess it makes of yer res, pump, heater, airstone etc. It breaks down from around two days, my res lasts 3-4 days. I think I`m going to add some to the last feed off of each res, so it doesn`t have time to break down and mess things up. This means my plants will get a molasses feed every 3 days or so, which should be enough to keep the microbial life in the medium enhanced a bit, that level will certainly not harm anything.

Finally, for tonight, My cuttings. I know there are many ways of cloning and my technique is pretty old school, but I`m good with that, I`m used to it and dont want to faf about with new techniques that require more tending. I use peat jiffy pucks, cloning gel, and now RO water, in a standard prop incubator. I`m used to getting a near 100% success rate, and they should look something like this.

Barely 4-5 inches high and they`re past the 8th internode already.

I`ve given some away now, the 6 on the left are the Armaghedon that were in a real poor state, but they`re looking good now.

I only need 4 arma`s and 4 cheese, for the now 2 growtent scrog, I`ve handed over full responsibility of the tent`s to my friend, of course I`m nearby if needed. I`ll take cuttings for my next crop from the grow tent plants, and decide which to go with then, I`ve also got the Strawberry cough and Grapefruit to choose from, though there is a spider mite problem there at the moment, so will make sure things are good before accepting anything from there.

I`m feeding the flowering plants at ec 1.6. 90mls Calmax ec0.4, 150mls Canna A+B ec1.3, 100mls PK13/14 ec1.6, plus 160mls atazyme and 5mls ph down, all mixed into 90 ltrs of RO water.

Cheers Toke