2016 Shipping container hybrid building

[HillMizer]

i dont see how you could possibly weld a fucking... 25 gauge galvanized stud to that container. maby tacks with a tig machine, but its not going to be very strong.

maby if you got a stud welder and threaded studs, but i doubt you have one of those.

regarding condensation... this is down to the metal reaching the interior dew point. its simple, you insulate either side, it does not matter much provided you insulate either side properly.

if you insualte the outside you could probably drop 2" foam boards then lathe then siding.

if you insulate on the inside agressivly with some ripped down 2x4's on the high spots and spray foam the whole interior wall cavity... idk you could probably go without any siiding at all... but spray foam is always hideously expensive.

Commercial studs are 16 guage. I used to work along side a crew that did steel framing with a plasma cutter and a 120v fcaw machine. I could weld them with a stick machine with 6011 if I had to. The thin gauge are 25 ga, but if I point the arc at the thick steel I can stitch em with the little fcaw machine. It's not a bridge.

I'm a certified welder and been a welding and fabricating for a long time. That's how. You sound like you've worked in the field a bunch know about a lot of construction techniques but I got this welding thing figured out. I almost used steel for the roof framing but it's a little pricey

Folks usually spray foam container buildings. DIY foam costs about 70$ per box. I haven't found an installer to come out yet, but a guy that sells the kit I found.

 

[who dat is]

Commercial studs are 16 guage. I used to work along side a crew that did steel framing with a plasma cutter and a 120v fcaw machine. I could weld them with a stick machine with 6011 if I had to. The thin gauge are 25 ga, but if I point the arc at the thick steel I can stitch em with the little fcaw machine. It's not a bridge.

I'm a certified welder and been a welding and fabricating for a long time. That's how. You sound like you've worked in the field a bunch know about a lot of construction techniques but I got this welding thing figured out. I almost used steel for the roof framing but it's a little pricey

Folks usually spray foam container buildings. DIY foam costs about 70$ per box. I haven't found an installer to come out yet, but a guy that sells the kit I found.

A price I've heard is around 1 dollar per board foot of installed spray foam.

 

[Vanilla Phoenix]

 

[queequeg152]

Commercial studs are 16 guage. I used to work along side a crew that did steel framing with a plasma cutter and a 120v fcaw machine. I could weld them with a stick machine with 6011 if I had to. The thin gauge are 25 ga, but if I point the arc at the thick steel I can stitch em with the little fcaw machine. It's not a bridge.

I'm a certified welder and been a welding and fabricating for a long time. That's how. You sound like you've worked in the field a bunch know about a lot of construction techniques but I got this welding thing figured out. I almost used steel for the roof framing but it's a little pricey

Folks usually spray foam container buildings. DIY foam costs about 70$ per box. I haven't found an installer to come out yet, but a guy that sells the kit I found.

there is no single "commercial" stud.

typically you use 25 gauge studs for absolutly 0 load walls that are just holding drywall and maby tile.

a 25 gauge stud with full 5/8" drywall on each side with glue is suprisingly strong btw. ALOT stronger than you would think when holding a 25 gauge stud in your hands.

then u get 21 gauge studs, then 18 gauge, 16 gauge and 14 gauge and 12 gauge channel steel and angles for shit like wide lintels.

u want to use 25 gauge or 21 gauge steel because u can still use a regular drywall gun and regular drywall screws.

when u get into 18 gauge studs you need self tapping screws and a 6000 rpm gun. even then shit takes alot longer.

25 gauge studs are like... less than 50 cents a foot. heavy gauge structual studs like an 18 gauge is going to cost like 5x as much and weigh like 10x as much.

if you want to use steel studs, you need to use the correct shit for the job... thats the smallest lightest stuf possible. im guessing u havent priced heavy gauge studs yet or else you would come to the same conclusion.

regarding welding. yes you could weld a 18 or 16 gauge stud, but u still have the galvanizing present which is a huge issue when fabricating in any closed off space.

i welded for 2 years in highschool and i have a little tig machine in my garage so my opinion is not worthless in this discussion.

im suprised any pro would use a flux cored set up without shielding gas... my understanding was that straight flux core was almost worthless.

and go ahead and price the foam kits. everyone comes to the same conclusion... oh ill just spray this myself. but in the end when they do the math... it just does not make sense.

in the end its about the same cost to have a pro just come and apply the foam with a proper setup

foam insulation will be almost 2x the cost of simmilar R value foam boards btw.

 

[HillMizer]

The $70 figure was $700 actually. A buck a board ft. One foam kit per container

 

[gaiusmarius]

awesome project. i don't think a passive intake is gonna be efficient enough. over scale the ventilation so you can run it slow and quite.

 

[caterpillar710]

Nice Project

 

[HillMizer]

there is no single "commercial" stud.

typically you use 25 gauge studs for absolutly 0 load walls that are just holding drywall and maby tile.

a 25 gauge stud with full 5/8" drywall on each side with glue is suprisingly strong btw. ALOT stronger than you would think when holding a 25 gauge stud in your hands.

then u get 21 gauge studs, then 18 gauge, 16 gauge and 14 gauge and 12 gauge channel steel and angles for shit like wide lintels.

u want to use 25 gauge or 21 gauge steel because u can still use a regular drywall gun and regular drywall screws.

when u get into 18 gauge studs you need self tapping screws and a 6000 rpm gun. even then shit takes alot longer.

25 gauge studs are like... less than 50 cents a foot. heavy gauge structual studs like an 18 gauge is going to cost like 5x as much and weigh like 10x as much.

if you want to use steel studs, you need to use the correct shit for the job... thats the smallest lightest stuf possible. im guessing u havent priced heavy gauge studs yet or else you would come to the same conclusion.

regarding welding. yes you could weld a 18 or 16 gauge stud, but u still have the galvanizing present which is a huge issue when fabricating in any closed off space.

i welded for 2 years in highschool and i have a little tig machine in my garage so my opinion is not worthless in this discussion.

im suprised any pro would use a flux cored set up without shielding gas... my understanding was that straight flux core was almost worthless.

and go ahead and price the foam kits. everyone comes to the same conclusion... oh ill just spray this myself. but in the end when they do the math... it just does not make sense.

in the end its about the same cost to have a pro just come and apply the foam with a proper setup

foam insulation will be almost 2x the cost of simmilar R value foam boards btw.

I just saw all this one, tons of pros use flux core only it just depends on what it's for. Shield gas is pretty worthless in wind, its heavy isn't necessary for misc jobs. You can just drag it around .
If its really structural like red iron it's never going to be flux core only on the drawings.

The galv isn't a huge deal. The first shop I worked in made hardware for precast beams. All of which called for hot dip galv>weld>cold galv. It's true it can cause nausea and possibly chronic problems. Wear a respirator.

A buddy gave me a pile of heavy studs, decking, channel and hat track. It was my idea to go over the my old farm and see what's left. It won't be enough for both containers though.

You know what you're talking about for sure. I appreciate your help too. I merely disagreed on the welding issue. I apologize if I read attitude and returned it.

Let's not complicate this thread for other folks by throwing technical knowledge out to prove how much we know. You'll win anyway.

The point of diy foam was not to get it cheaper, just to get it done in my remote location and without bringing in more strangers.

I'd much prefer to use rigid foam board but had been cautioned about the condensation. I could probably remedy the problem for less than the difference in product.
Thanks again for your help. Those scissor trusses might end up being the best thibg.

 

[queequeg152]

you misinterpreting hostility on my part, im offering none, nore did i infer any on your part.

i was just genuinely amazed somebody actually used flux cored wire welders without them clogging nozzles and crap like that.
I hear about "dual sheielded" or "dual mig" all the time though... for cases where u are welding structural steel with light contamination light prep work etc, the flux seems to clean better in these cases.
i just put together brackets and shit in my garage... obivously id have to defer to your welding knowledge.

regarding foam and regarding condensation:

again this all comes down to EFFECTIVE r value of your wall assembly.

steel conducts heat like a mother fucker... this is obivous, so it is a good idea to keep it out of the sun right? siding with a rain screen cavity etc...

well if you are going with siding... IMO you might as well put the entire assembly on the outside and leave the bare steel inside alone... just rough in EMT conduit and pull power through out the building.

with foam board you will be air sealing the corrugated cavities with canned foam and a plywood similar to any double wall or larsen trussed wall assembly.

with cellulose + double wall or larsen truss air sealing is less vital owing to dense packed cellulose being all but impervious to air movement.


again... IMHO for a "utility" space... put all the work on the outside. leave the inside bare painted steel... maby pour a floor out of self leveling compound but thats about it imo.

if you want fast
go with foam boads or cellulose... foam boards will be very fast provided you at least have a table saw or track saw setup to break down sheet goods.

if you want cheap but slower

go with cellulose in larson trusses. you can even make the trusses yourself... but building a jig and trusses etc will take time.

if you want very fast...
furr out the exterior for like 3 inch cavity and fill it with closed cell spray foam. you cant leave spray foam exposed to UV light so you need to slap some siding over it within 30 days or somethign like that.

foam kits are not what everyone thinks they are. they are basically bare bones guns with refrigerant type tanks. they clog all the time but they give u like 10 tips usually.
the foam pumps out alot of heat as it cures so you cant put it down in deep lifts... especially if its super hot at the time.

im actually about to pickup a 200 board foot kit to insulate some shitty knee walls in my attic... but ONLY because the knee wall was framed so shittily that i cant properly do the job without spending days just furring it out and blowing in cellulose.

 

[queequeg152]

i forgot to add this picture for clarity regarding the larson truss and the air sealing against the wall...

obiviously you dont want that vapor barrier on the outside...and you dont have a concrete foundation or rim joist etc... but the closure on the larson truss would be near identical.

basically what im saying is you will rip down some plywood... scribe the corrugations, cut out with a jigsaw and fit, then air seal the gap between the plywood and the steel corrugations.

like i said this is going to consume some time... if i had to guess, id say it would take the better part of the day just to get these done.

there is a thousand ways to skin the insulation cat though... blown in fiberglass, rockwool bats, fiberglass bats, denim bats, foam boards, roxxul rigid boards( u might check these out), sawdust, hell even hay bails work for insulation.... its all about time and money though... and batts will always win that argument.

 

[HillMizer]

You ditch the nozzle when you run flux core only. Just a contact tip and use dip. It's great for a farmer or light duty installer. I prefer to drag that little machine around for a lot of things. I don't ever run out of shield gas, which is an hour drive to refill. I built some heavy brackets with it using multiple passes and high amperage they've taken alot of abuse.

Thanks for that. I had been defering to other container builds, but I really wanted to insulate the outside. I'll do bats for the framed parts and foamboard for the outside.

I'll look into Larson trusses more for a dwelling in the future. Thanks for posting the images.

If the condensation gets bad I'll just install a drip pan.
That will be nice with white steel on the inside.

 

[queequeg152]

how are you insulating the bottom?

i just saw how you have them on the ground sitting on column footings?

u really need it elevated like 18" so you can install insulation and drainage etc no?

 

[coldcanna]

This looks like the makings of something badass, count me in. Do you have a sketch or anything of what the finish product is gonna look like? Admittedly I didn't read every comment but was just going to suggest that if your framing outside to save space then metal roofing as siding/sheathing on the walls works awesome. I just finished building a 24k facility for a customer and we stick framed everything and used roofing for the siding.... fast, cheap, rugged stuff

 

[HillMizer]

how are you insulating the bottom?

i just saw how you have them on the ground sitting on column footings?

u really need it elevated like 18" so you can install insulation and drainage etc no?

Not going to bother trying to insulate the floor maybe put some foamboard under the beds. My house doesn't even have insulation in the floor nor does my other growroom.

Drainage can go right out the drains and on to the ground, just like my other rooms do/did. If I want to run poly or pvc later I can surely do it without crawling it.

This looks like the makings of something badass, count me in. Do you have a sketch or anything of what the finish product is gonna look like? Admittedly I didn't read every comment but was just going to suggest that if your framing outside to save space then metal roofing as siding/sheathing on the walls works awesome. I just finished building a 24k facility for a customer and we stick framed everything and used roofing for the siding.... fast, cheap, rugged stuff

I tried to upload one just now and it's not working. I tried to learn Google Sketchup but that's a winter project.

All going to be rough sawn Ponderosa pine board & batten siding. Just like the cabin I grew up in.

My brother outlaw has 2 big steel garages, the kind of cheap carport ones with square tube rafters. He's downhill a little and doesn't even have floors in them just gravel. I think he's got 2 50kw rooms and he had them installed cheap. I almost did that, but I like the modular part. I have it all locked up already and I have not built anything. There's $20k of equipment fairly safe from tweakers in it.

I already dried and process product in one of the containers and then moved it to another area. This whole building could be torn down and loaded on trucks. We will no doubt be drying in one of the containers while finishing the rest of the project.

I'll post a better drawing than the one I just tried anyway.

Trying to get 4 different truss yards to send me quotes but they are all dragging ass. I figured out how to do it with the largest rafter span being just over 12' so I could just use 2x10 rafters. Maybe 2x8.

 

[queequeg152]

normally i would agree that no floor insulation would be fine... not ideal but fine.

steel is something else though.

the thermal conductivity will be an order of magnitude more than concrete, AND the steel is very very thin in comparison.

you should try your best to control air infiltration under this structure. a strong wind on any given day could give you some headaches with respect to condensation on the floor.

i have 0 clue about your climate though. sierra foothills sounds like colerado to me, so i imagine its quite cold.

if you run into problems, you could always lay sleepers down and insulate the floor with some batts etc. i really doubt this would be a problem at all when its hot inside the thing... with lights running, but when you have lower temps it could become an issue.

 

[zizration]

they usually have plywood floors...

 

[FoothillFarming]

Worst comes to worst, you can line the ply wood floor with Styrofoam 1-1.5" thick. I walk on mine all the time (1") and it works. You could then throw more ply if the foam gets messed up. If it becomes a problem.

Personally, with the metal on the ground I see the temps being just fine. For the ground only. Walls and ceiling are a different beast.

 

[queequeg152]

they usually have plywood floors...

from the get go they have plywood? or are you saying people usually put down plywood?

 

[FoothillFarming]

Just saw on somebody's IG feed

They put two by two's down on the ply floor spaced every 16". Foam spray in between, hack back excess, and lay new OSB ply. Looked solid, and now has an R value. They sprayed the walls and ceiling too.

 

[zizration]

from the get go they have plywood? or are you saying people usually put down plywood?

mine has a plywood floor. like 5/8" i believe.