2.5x1.8 meter coco scrog, 3 strain bingo!!

[Kindman69]

Cheers Toke
I'm always amazed at the size of your scrog brother! Nice goings
You are right we are almost at the same point in our grows, it's going to be a fun show
Best of luck to you bro, my chair is pulled up.

Peace, Kind

 

[Tokesome]

Cheers Kind, yeah its gonna be a handful rearing this lot on a scrog this size, but I have the time to manage it and I`m determined to dial this in the best I can. It`ll be interesting to see what I get off a good run with this technique, compared to what I can achieve on a good run without a screen.

I`ve half improved my air intake today, and will hopefully finish the job tmro. I reckon I`ll carry on with the scrog. Its my own lazy fault I have issues with air in the first place. I couldn`t be bothered dismantling the screen after the last grow and set these plants off into the same screen, after doing a few fisherman net repairs. I cant do fuck all in the room with this giant scrog table and screen unless it can be done under or around the screen, hence me not being able to move the big filter into the centre of the ceiling.

Next time around I`ll move the table out and refit the filters.

I`m feeding once every two days at the moment, after one day the wicks fitted to the bottom of the pots are still very wet so I assume there is plenty for them to feed from. I`d expect them to require daily feeding before too long.

Feed is RO water, Calmax ec0.4, Canna A+B ec1.2, Rhizotonic 1ml per liter and 3 capfulls of Superthrive. ph`d to 5.8.

I`ll take some more pics tmro showing the progress of training.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Toke,
Whats the crack with the calmax at EC-0.4, i know you run RO but why soo high on the calmax? it seems too high to me, & its like giving you a hard water start, better for PH buffering capacity? what ppm' is that man? if your running soft water/standard nutes then the Ca & Mg is gonna be pretty high overall, i just wanted to know your reasoning behind this buddy? because its Coco your running?

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Toke,
Whats the crack with the calmax at EC-0.4, i know you run RO but why soo high on the calmax? it seems too high to me, & its like giving you a hard water start, better for PH buffering capacity? what ppm' is that man? if your running soft water/standard nutes then the Ca & Mg is gonna be pretty high overall, i just wanted to know your reasoning behind this buddy? because its Coco your running?

Yeah mate the Canna Coco nutes are designed to go with bass water of ec0.2, if made up of mainly Cal and Mg. As there is a N content to the Calmax I go in higher, then make up to ec1.2 with A+B. Coco does have heavy requirement for Cal and Mg. I`m not sure if its a little strong, but if so I imagine by at the most at ec0.1.

The problem with my old water wasn`t the amount of Cal and Mg, my tap water is only ec0.3, I think the quality of the tap water is poor, but not to do with the Mg. To be honest Scroger, I`m not sure if it was just that crappy strain I was working with that suffered under the tap water, but certainly cuttings clone much better with the RO water. I`m a bit dubious about trying them with tap water again, I figure if I`m using RO water, then at least I`m in complete control of the nutrient content.

The plants seem to be doing well, no signs of toxicity or nutrient burn etc. I had a slight amount of burn on the 2 Big Bud after a couple of sprays of Epsom salts, but other than that things are looking good mate.

Cheers Toke

 

[Tokesome]

I was originally giving Calmax at ec0.3, but upped it to ec0.4 when the three Big Bud were showing signs of Mg deficiency, I`ll drop it back to ec0.3 the next time I fill the res up.

Cheers Toke ;-)

 

[Tokesome]

Same devastating problem rearing its head again? . . FOOK`S SAKE!!

Same devastating problem rearing its head again? . . FOOK`S SAKE!!

Well guys I just cant believe it, I`m finding leaves with distinct yellowing between the leaves on the Armageddon and Grapefruit, along with that the Big Bud that showed this a while back has not improved and are showing signs of worsening. Its the same thing I`ve witnessed over the past few grows I`m sure now that something is affecting this room, and to be straight I`m crapping myself that I`m going to have problems that fuck things up again.

Here`s a photo of an Armageddon leaf

And a Grapefruit leaf

One of the Arma`s that have swithched to 12/12

Its got to be something in the room, I`ve got 3 new strains here, all affected now to some degree, I`m feeding with nutrients from the same bottles, measured for ec and ph with the same meters, to the plants here and plants in two tent grows that are running with cuttings of Armageddon from the same batch, cloned by me, none of the plants in the growtents are showing any such signs, and all of the plants I have here are showing some signs of this problem. The only difference between my plants here and those in the tents is that the tent plants have been fed every day, but I`ve nowhere near let my plants dry out.

I dont think it is lack of Mg, it has done nothing for the Big Bud, and never had an impact on my last few grows. I cant see that I`m doing anything wrong feed wise, even if feeding every 48 hrs has been a bit stretched for them, I wouldn`t expect this as a result, would you guys? I`ll step up to daily feeding now, but I really dont think that`s the issue, even though that`s the only difference between the grows regime here compared to the tent grows. If it is a lack of Mg I figure it must be because of a lockout problem as there is plenty enough going into the nutrient mix.

It feels to me that the plants are getting poisoned some how by something in the environment, but I cant for the life of me suss out what it is. Or I have some sort of disease running about, though I sterilised everything and used new Coco.

I`ve sprayed the 3 Arma`s that have been switched to 12/12 with Epsom salts solution, 1 teaspoon per liter. I`ll spray the rest of the plants tmro at lights off, but honestly guys I just dont see it making the slightest difference.

I feel it has to be an environmental issue due to both grow tents are doing great, but what the hell could it be that`s having this affect on my plants?

I`ve been feeding with a max of ec1.3 only once, other than that they get fed between ec1.0 and 1.2, ph is always around 5.8, never lower and occaisoinally up to 6.0.

Strangely enough, the plants under the MH light seem less affected than the more vigorous plants under the HPS lights, is this because these plants are using up more energy under the 600w HPS compared with the 400w MH??

If anyone can see something or has any ideas, I`d be keen to hear them. I`m fed up to the back teeth with stressful growing. I`m thinking I`m going to have to move house if this doesn`t get sorted this time around. The problem has beaten me for well over a year now and enough`s enough.

It does feel a bit like here we go again, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

The plants are still progressing through the screen quite well and looking healthy enough up top. Most of the affected leaves are lower older ones.

At todays feed I gave roughly 4 and a half liters to each pot of ec1.0 ph5.9 to give them a good flush through.

I`ll take photo`s at lights off tmro when I spray with Epsom salts.

Toke

 

[Tokesome]

On a rational note:-

It could be that I`m going in too high with Calmax and locking out the Mg. I`m kind of doubt that as the recommended dose is considerably higher than I`m applying.

Or it could be that 48hrs between feeds has been too long in between for them and the drying out has caused a salt build up. I`d be surprised if this is the answer, given the length of time they`ve been in the pots. The Armageddon are showing slight tip burn, one or two slightly worse than others. This could be that the couple of plants affected more could have been drinking a little faster, they`re in a hotter better lit place, hence these being most affected from suspected drying out too much. I took a close look at the Grapefruit and when looking very closely I can detect the slightest of tip burn too. bearing in mind that the strongest I`ve fed is ec1.3 (once) but mostly ec1.0-1.2, its not likely the strength of ec, though I guess the very slight possibility that they`ve had a bit too much N due to the Calmax added to ec0.4.

I know you`ll think this one is crazy, but I`m wondering if something is polluting the air, such as off gassing from something. Again doubtful, but I`ve had an incident t=recently with a grow tent where some of the plastic parts gave off a gas especially under the heat of the light and caused the Stomata on the leaves to close causing it to in effect suffocate. In the tent a couple of weeks and the plants would be almost dead. The gasses given off are harmful to humans too. I cant see that anything I have in my room would be a problem there.

Things I can do without radically altering anything

1, I`ve already started to feed daily.

2, use Calmax to ec0.2 instead of 0.4

3, Spray with Epsom salts, I missed lights off today so will have to be done tmro.

Anything you think I might be missing guys?

Cheers Toke

 

[Tokesome]

I`ve mixed an new res with Calmax to ec0.2 and then Canna A+B ec1.1, on top of this I added 3 capfulls of Superthrive and 2mls per liter Atazym.

I`d have left the Zym product till a couple of weeks into flower, but I`m aware I may have irritated the roots and thought the Zym beneficials would be useful do get rid of any damaged decaying roots and give a good environment for the healthy roots.

I`ll feed till a healthy run off daily now and see what happens.

Hopefully I`ll get a few pics taken tonight and post em up here.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

I`ve sprayed the 3 Arma`s that have been switched to 12/12 with Epsom salts solution, 1 teaspoon per liter. I`ll spray the rest of the plants tmro at lights off, but honestly guys I just dont see it making the slightest difference.


I think this was a good idea, even though you seem convinsed its not a Mg def, it sure does mimick one so this is a good move, maybe it is locked out somehow or to some extent, wouldnt surprise me knowing what i know about Coco.


I feel it has to be an environmental issue due to both grow tents are doing great, but what the hell could it be that`s having this affect on my plants?

Could be, but the symptoms indicate something else imo!

I`ve been feeding with a max of ec1.3 only once, other than that they get fed between ec1.0 and 1.2, ph is always around 5.8, never lower and occaisoinally up to 6.0.

WOW, confusing or what man,!

Strangely enough, the plants under the MH light seem less affected than the more vigorous plants under the HPS lights, is this because these plants are using up more energy under the 600w HPS compared with the 400w MH??

I still think there is a problem with how Mg is being used by the plant, its almost like its not getting to where its needed and the plant is canibilising itself! which is wierd, why!???

If anyone can see something or has any ideas, I`d be keen to hear them. I`m fed up to the back teeth with stressful growing. I`m thinking I`m going to have to move house if this doesn`t get sorted this time around. The problem has beaten me for well over a year now and enough`s enough.

this needs to be broken down one step at a time man,now are you using a wetting agent with your foliar application, washing detergent will do if you have none, a drop per 10 litres in Ok ive found, plenty!
if the Mg/epsom foliar does'nt work then you will know its 100% something else, a foliar is the fastest & most effective way to fix a deficiency as everyone knows!, so if that dont work, its defo not a problem with the transport of Mg, which is what i think it is!


It does feel a bit like here we go again, Toke[/quote]

Bastard man, i feel for you bro, dont let it beat you down man, you will win in the end, with the help & support of all IC members you will win bro, of that im sure!
G'luck Toke bro, we're with you bro! keep ya chin up & hope this foliar app works, I think it may & fast if you have used a spreader/wetting agent.
Peace.....Scroger!

 

[Scrogerman]

I think your taking the right course of overall action too buddy, break it all down & use as many contrl scenario's as you possibly can if you have to, in the end one will work & you'll eventually get to the bottom of things with a bit of luck, which by now you really deserve!

 

[Tokesome]

Well I sure hope so Scroger mate, but to be honest mate I`ve been through most of these steps before. With the Cheese I got the same effects when feeding constant trickle for 45mins, 4 times a day, and I`ve had the same problem with underfeeding too.

I`ve been looking through my last grow and these yellowing symptoms disappeared after switching to RO water, the grow continued to be sooooo green and lush but stunted around week 3 or 4 of flower. I figured the strain had had too much damage early on to produce, but now I`m suspecting that its all part of the same problem.

Its confusing though, as I said I first got this problem whilst overwatering the plants. Then the problem in the next grow came whilst under feeding, almost starved some of them, so I`m not convinced that its down to feeding regime, though it may worsen the situation if its not maintained well.

I dont see it as a strain issue, as these are 3 new strains to me, though I`m fookin` hoping that some strains cope well with it, hopefully the strains I have here.

I dont think its a nutrient mix problem as the problem has come about with 2 different manufacturer`s nutrients, Canna and B`cuzz, and varying strengths of nutrient.

I thought temps and air exchange may have been the issue, but I`ve got loads of air movement and temps are well maintained, much better than in the grow tent grows where temps have been a bit extreme but plants are doing fine.

I thought it was solved with switching to RO water as the last grow became green and lush after making the switch, but here the problem is again.

I`m sure you can see why I`m confused, what else does it leave that could have this affect?

Disease, attack from some virus? How come I`m not spreading this to the grow tents? The root zone looked good after last grow, strong with no rot etc. I couldn`t see any obvious signs of problems.

A hotspot from one of the lights made it very difficult for the plants to recover in that area after problems last grow. I do confess to using cheap 600w HPS bulbs, but I cant see this having a bearing on things??

The off gassing problem I found with the grow tent, (Its a well documented problem that luckily I`d read about already when the problem occured with a new tent), was because of a plastic that was used in part of its construction, it was easily removed and the problem was solved. I dont suppose off gassing from a plastic will be the problem here either, but there are a number of plastic glow in the dark stars stuck to the ceiling. You know the type of thing, a bit like the luminous horror movie models you`d have as a kid, or glow in the dark skeletons at halloween, glow green for half an hour after lights go off. I cant see it being anything to do with this really, its such a long shot, but I`m gonna knock them all off the ceiling tmro and bin em. i cant see any other plastics that could be the problem. (I`m sure some of you may think I`m losing the plot with this one, but if you run a search on off gassing you`ll see what I mean, nasty, but as I say I cant see anything that`s going to cause this affect.

Here are a few pics of things as they stand, I`m still not sure whether to remove the screen to enable me to get to the plants so that I can work on them easier with these problems, but I dont see that I`ll be able to do much more for them by having better access. The only possible plus would be less stress on the plants, not being forced to grow underneath the screen `n all.

Here`s a pic of the three Arma`s switched over to flower, they`ve just been sprayed with Epsom Salts hence looking droopy. You can see the leafs are quickly being affected, and notice the purple stems to the bigger leaves.

Is this weird leaf discolouration something to do with the same problem?? I suspect it maybe is.

Here`s the screen

The following 3 pics are 1, Arma`s under the MH, except the nearest which is B Bud, 2, Grapefruit under HPS, except furthest plant which is a B Bud, and 3, the other Arma under HPS

Grapefruit under the screen

Armageddon tip under the MH light

Armageddon under HPS, note the very close spacing between nodes, that doesn`t seem quite right to me, I wouldn`t expect this kind of spacing till buds are forming??

The Grapefruit

I fed them all till run off twice today to ensure they`re well flushed through, just in case they`re suffering from a salt build up.

Cheers for now, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

They dont look so bad bro, infact they look fine, but i can see your worries man.
This is a long shot but its something me & an old friend, whos a great grower were disscussing one day. It was to do with using 'Food Grade Plastics', Vs using the shit they use to make Builders Buckets, you talking about offgassing reminded me of this pointer. Im not 100% sure, but me & my mate were using builders buckets to keep our nutes in on a weekly basis, you know we were keeping our nutes in those buckets for a week or more & what we were noticing was a film of shit/oil / glup / gunk, that was forming on top of the solutions surface, we both agreed that this residue could be harmfull. My buddy did some research & yeah he decided it was'nt good for our plants, so we both stopped using them in this fashion, you know i cant remember the symptoms we were having at the time, it was ages ago, over 10 years ago now, & ive used food grade plastics ever since, i know its a long shot man, but like you 'im running out of ideas now. I know there is a little info on this knocking about somewhere on the net, i hope you can pin this down man, are you seeing any improvement from using the epsom as a foliar? Anyway consider the plastics your using for pots & see what you can find on this theory. I noticed you are using several types of plastics there, are all the symptoms the same in each bucket or are they confined to your builders buckets?, it may be something like this man. we'll keep searching bro!¬) Im off to study this one too.
G'Luck................Scroger!

 

[Tokesome]

Plastic poisoning?? Wat can it be?? Or is it??

Plastic poisoning?? Wat can it be?? Or is it??

They dont look so bad bro, infact they look fine, but i can see your worries man.
This is a long shot but its something me & an old friend, whos a great grower were disscussing one day. It was to do with using 'Food Grade Plastics', Vs using the shit they use to make Builders Buckets, you talking about offgassing reminded me of this pointer. Im not 100% sure, but me & my mate were using builders buckets to keep our nutes in on a weekly basis, you know we were keeping our nutes in those buckets for a week or more & what we were noticing was a film of shit/oil / glup / gunk, that was forming on top of the solutions surface, we both agreed that this residue could be harmfull. My buddy did some research & yeah he decided it was'nt good for our plants, so we both stopped using them in this fashion, you know i cant remember the symptoms we were having at the time, it was ages ago, over 10 years ago now, & ive used food grade plastics ever since, i know its a long shot man, but like you 'im running out of ideas now. I know there is a little info on this knocking about somewhere on the net, i hope you can pin this down man, are you seeing any improvement from using the epsom as a foliar? Anyway consider the plastics your using for pots & see what you can find on this theory. I noticed you are using several types of plastics there, are all the symptoms the same in each bucket or are they confined to your builders buckets?, it may be something like this man. we'll keep searching bro!¬) Im off to study this one too.
G'Luck................Scroger!

Hey Scroger, yeah I take your point about them looking well in the screen, but virtually every plant has some affected leaves, and I remember many similar comments last grow. I think its partly the digi camera thing, its hard to show the detail of colour on leaves without getting close to the affected leaves. They do look good in many respects though, every thing above the screen is unaffected, as its mainly older medium sized leaves that are affected. The GF is least affected but if you get close and look with any care you can see signs of it in them, Big Bud is by far the most severely affected and showed signs of it a good week earlier, The Armageddon is in between the GF and BB as far as the degree of affected leaves.

I cant notice any difference after Epsom salts, but I`d expect it to take 2 or 3 days, the affected leaves I assume, wont improve and get their colour back?

The plants are on a 20hrs on, 4hrs off light cycle. I switched all the fans off and sprayed them all with Epsom salts solution, 1 teaspoon per liter, When it came to lights on time a lot of leaves were still wet, so I left a 100wbulb on along with all the fans for half an hour to dry them off before firing the lights up again. I dont think this is going to do much, as it hasn`t before, but I`m keeping my fingers crossed.

Dude, PLASTIC, that`s the line I`ve been thinking on too. I know there is a lot of different plastics being used, but trying to select one as a possible problem because many of the same things are used in the grow tents, ie builders buckets for pots, standard 90ltr plastic dustbins for nutrient res. Also these problems were affecting me before I went to large 3 gal buckets, prior to this I was using 7 liter plant pots. I was recirculating my nutes in the nft tanks, but now have the bin res, even the plastic screen has been introduced whilst these problems were with me.

I do know the problem in the tents was something to do with the process of making thick plastic supple yet durable, and its affect on plants is near certain death to plants within 2-3 weeks, fuck knows what it does to humans using it, never mind the poor sods who make it. I was wondering if there was something similar going on here on an albeit milder but still significant symptoms. I just cant put my finger on what it is that could be doing it. In fact I`m going to spend some more time in the room today just looking for possibilities.

Well I`ve been having a good look, plants in all different pots are affected, the Big Bud has got worse despite the Epsom spraying, twice, a week or so ago, its creeping up through the plants.

You know, the only thing I can see that`s been in use all through this problem and was new at the time, and is made of plastic, is the standard "black and white" plastic sheeting obtained from a grow shop on a 100meter roll. I`ve not suspected this due to the fact that its a standard fixture of most grow rooms.

I have heard on the grapevine that a few people are having problems similar to me, it goes around as a conspiracy theory that the government are putting stuff in our water, which is crap of course as there are plenty of successful grows around. I guess there could be a possibility of a bad or cheap batch being sold around 18 to 24 months ago, leaving some of us with problems we cant get rid of. Sounds nearly as out there as the above conspiracy theory though, but a remote possibility.

Another thing that foxes the fuck out of me is that I`ve had this problem coming in during the cloning stage, when plants are kept in a cupboard. This changed when I switched to RO water, and I dont think I`ve ever used the black and white plastic in there, although it is a cupboard that opens into the grow room. I`ll have to look at old pics and see if I was using the black and white back then, I`m sure I wasn`t tho.

There`s something having a continuing worsening affect on the plants I think, I dont think it can be the feed or feed technique/regime or the usual controlled climate variables, ie temps and air exchange.

Its going to be too late to remove the screen unless I do it in the next couple of days. I`m wondering if I should be removing it so that I can get to do things such as changing pots etc., though Ias I have the same pots in the grow tent and had this problem before I brought them into the grow room.

This is really frustrating the hell out of me, why did the plants suddenly become a picture of vigorous healthy growth after switching to RO water, and why did they not then produce. . . . part of the same problem perhaps, or as I suspected at the time, the plants were fucked up earlier during a very slow, sickly and held back veg period. Why did they, or what else could have made them, suddenly look so green and healthy when I switched to the RO water, and what`s changed back again to bring these symptoms back?

It is such a puzzle, but it has to be narrowed down, and I still cant see it. My brain feels done in!

I have the idea to put a sheet of "black and white" in the grow tent that`s in veg and see if it has any adverse affects on the plants, at least that would eliminate it from the equation.

Ah I`m off for a game of poker with the boyz tonight.

I`ve got to find this problem, I know its going to get worse and have a devastating affect on the yield if I don`t. I cant go bumbling on watching things deteriorate. You can imagine the affect this is having to have the yield cut to less than a 3rd for a year and a half, its really serious.

Cheers guys, Toke

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

looks a little bit like lock out...

how are you watering? full strength feed every time? if so, that is the problem. i had something similar happen to me in coco. i was feeding full strength every time, but i stopped and the way i do it now is:

heavy feed
light feed
plean water
heavy feed....etc etc etc.

hope this helps

 

[Tokesome]

looks a little bit like lock out...

how are you watering? full strength feed every time? if so, that is the problem. i had something similar happen to me in coco. i was feeding full strength every time, but i stopped and the way i do it now is:

heavy feed
light feed
plean water
heavy feed....etc etc etc.

hope this helps

No mate, not that. Thanks for dropping in though, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Its a desperate measure in coco, but I think I`m going to give a heavy flush with plain ph`d RO water, and then follow this up with a light nutrient mix. Just in case I`ve got a salt build up of nutrient concentration during the 48hr periods between feeds. I figure 5 liters through each pot followed and hour later (after draining off a bit) with a couple of liters each pot of ec1.0 nutrient mix. See if that turns them around at all. I`ll probably do this on Friday if there`s no improvement by then.

Cheers, Toke

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

Its a desperate measure in coco, but I think I`m going to give a heavy flush with plain ph`d RO water, and then follow this up with a light nutrient mix. Just in case I`ve got a salt build up of nutrient concentration during the 48hr periods between feeds. I figure 5 liters through each pot followed and hour later (after draining off a bit) with a couple of liters each pot of ec1.0 nutrient mix. See if that turns them around at all. I`ll probably do this on Friday if there`s no improvement by then.

Cheers, Toke

um thats pretty much what i told you....thats why i do a heavy..light...plain schedule is to make sure i dont get a salt buildup and eventual lockout.

i would just do a plain ro water and not worry about the light nute feed until they dry out again...

 

[hazy]

The grow looks good tokesome. That Mag deficiciency is haunting you again! You say it only affects the Armageddon? Get rid of that strain?

Or??

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Man/ISmokeKush!
Heavy light plaincrisps aint the correct way to feed MJ in hydro or pot culture or any other method either. There is a specific way to tell if your plants require an increase in ppm's/Ec/Cf, & that is to chart the Run-Off of your irrigation solutions PH,-ITS THE ONLY WAY TO TELL WHATS GOING ON, & the only way to tell what the plant needs. If your PH drifts up Daily, then your feed is to weak & ppm's need to be increased daily untill your solutions PH stabilises or has a minor upward drift of say .2-.3 in a 24hour period. If your PH drifts down daily, then its likely your nute solution is too strong/hot and ppm's need to be weakened off daily untill you stabilise or as i said before a minor upward drift of .2 is observed, a sure sign of a healthy system. im sure Heavy-Medium-PlainCrisps works for you man but its NOT the correct way to chart 'EC-PPM's' or 'Feed Strength' & what the Plant itself actually requires, I know Toke knows this and is just being polite, but he has that part of things nailed down, i think its possibly a lock-out issue myself, & maybe flushing & weaking off the available source of K may help some, from what ive read it may help, as it messes with Mg-Ca-& N, and symptoms do resemble N def & Mg def to some degree & ive also seen some or what looked to be something like 'VPD' or 'Vapour Pressure Deficit' damage on one or two of your leaves, Yellowish irregular shaped Blotches/Patches forming as intervainal necrosis, i get this sometimes and ive found out its due to 'RH' and Tempreture being out of whack with each other basiscally or to cut a long story short! waffle waffle! Anyway Toke buddy i aint giving up on this one with you bro & i'll do all i can to help find some answers, they may just help[ alot of people. Im, surprised more veterans of IC and growing in general have not come to help in anyway Toke, shame that & i hope someone turns up who can really help us nail this fukker down! Till Next Time,...'Peace *&*Respect People',............Scroger