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150w HPS Club and Resource Guide......
- Thread starter Pipedream
- Start date
The only trouble I have with using "Drop Solution Test Kits", and the reason I never mention them for checking your PH is this.....
While they can work fine for checking the PH of plain water, this is often not the case for a nutrient solution. Many nutrients and additives can stain or change the apparent color of the water once they are added to create your actual solution. That being the case, it becomes very easy to get a false reading when comparing the color of your test sample to those on a Standards Chart.
JMHO, One Love, PD
Divine Cosmos
Member
That's the problem I find PD, especially when one throws molasses in the mix.
I see your reasons now pipedream and they make sense. I was mostly just concerned with your comment about not needing to check the final pH because of buffers. Although perhaps true in some cases, is certainly not with others.
The only nutrient I have used thus far that changes the color is Open Sesame. It changes to a redish color. Even when checking dirty run off water I'm still be pretty confident with interpreting the color. I've yet to add molasses and. Does molasses change pH much?
The only nutrient I have used thus far that changes the color is Open Sesame. It changes to a redish color. Even when checking dirty run off water I'm still be pretty confident with interpreting the color. I've yet to add molasses and. Does molasses change pH much?
Divine Cosmos
Member
Does molasses change pH much? [quote Catman]
I use liquid drops to find ph, and its pretty hard to work out the colour with a murky brown liquid; if anything it seems to make it a little acidic.
The good thing about molasses is that as it encourages the micro-herd, those organisms buffer the ph to one that is preferable to the plant - not sure if this applies to coco though.
I use liquid drops to find ph, and its pretty hard to work out the colour with a murky brown liquid; if anything it seems to make it a little acidic.
The good thing about molasses is that as it encourages the micro-herd, those organisms buffer the ph to one that is preferable to the plant - not sure if this applies to coco though.
For those who use table molasses, it may contain citric acid as a preservative. This is a small amount and won't change the pH very much imo. 1 tbs per gal doesn't seem to increase ppm very much either.
TraneRek
Member
Thanks for all the info guys. Everything is so interesting! I guess b/c you can read all these theories and methods and actually TRY them yourself.
Right now I've got my 4 seedlings under the 78w CFL's, but one is looking a bit droopier than the others; not sure why. When I get back home I'll snap a few pics.
-Rek
Right now I've got my 4 seedlings under the 78w CFL's, but one is looking a bit droopier than the others; not sure why. When I get back home I'll snap a few pics.
-Rek
dj, an indica strain may finish in 6-8 weeks, sativa hybrids 7-10 weeks, and some hazes finish in 8-16+ weeks. Differing phenotypes within a group can take lesser or longer than her sisters.
The best way to know when they finish is to decide how ripe you like the plant. With having no experience with it, and not really knowing how you like it, my advise would be to let the plant ripen until you see about half of the white hairs start to turn red/orange/brown. At that point you can use a cheap view scope ($12 RadioShack) and see how ripe the trichomes actually are. The heads of the trics will turn a shade of amber when they are ripened. The more ripe ones when harvested means there will be more of the chemicals that calm, and the lesser of them the more chemicals that excite. Finding the balance of these chemicals so that the plant pleases you, is the key. So in essence, you are judging how many tric heads you want to see amber when you harvest.
Many will take the plant when they first see amber, especially if the strain is a haze or sativa dominant. Those who grow indica plants may wait to see 50% amber or more.
All in all, anytime the haifrs have started turning color, the plant can be taken.
But be aware that many plants of all types will not have swollen up buds until the very last week or two of ripening...so try not to be too impatient.
good luck
The best way to know when they finish is to decide how ripe you like the plant. With having no experience with it, and not really knowing how you like it, my advise would be to let the plant ripen until you see about half of the white hairs start to turn red/orange/brown. At that point you can use a cheap view scope ($12 RadioShack) and see how ripe the trichomes actually are. The heads of the trics will turn a shade of amber when they are ripened. The more ripe ones when harvested means there will be more of the chemicals that calm, and the lesser of them the more chemicals that excite. Finding the balance of these chemicals so that the plant pleases you, is the key. So in essence, you are judging how many tric heads you want to see amber when you harvest.
Many will take the plant when they first see amber, especially if the strain is a haze or sativa dominant. Those who grow indica plants may wait to see 50% amber or more.
All in all, anytime the haifrs have started turning color, the plant can be taken.
But be aware that many plants of all types will not have swollen up buds until the very last week or two of ripening...so try not to be too impatient.
good luck
djbenzo
Member
thanks alot! the pistils on the top most buds branches are changed color but many buds are still developing and completly white..the strain isnt known but if you look at the pics it appears to be heavily sativa.
but another question..could the entire plants "hairs" have turned orange
but it still not be fully ripe depending on the trichromes? jw
but another question..could the entire plants "hairs" have turned orange
but it still not be fully ripe depending on the trichromes? jw
it can happen and is not that unusual. that's where the microscope comes in handy...could the entire plants "hairs" have turned orange
but it still not be fully ripe depending on the trichromes? jw
It varies, dj. Some varieties may continue to grow white hairs after it is ripe, and some will have all turned hairs prior to it ripening. Only way to know to any degree of certainty is to look at the trics closeup.
It's all good though.
It's all good though.
Divine Cosmos
Member
UPDATE.
UPDATE.
So here at week 4, and buds are starting to develop.:
Had to change the reflector because of overcrowding/headroom. Someone on here said the envirolite would be like a shot of steroids - they were right!
So I have a question for those with experience: Would I be better off cutting the lower growth that doesn't receive much light for max yield? The addition of the envirolite positioned were you can see the burnt tips, has encouraged them to grow but, they're are not budding.
Got some more additives from the Canadian Xpress line; Head Master, and Regen-a-root. Both highly recommended by growers everywhere online.
I'm hoping for at least 1 1/2 to 2 O's with her; is that reasonable? Anyone want to estimate yield?
UPDATE.
So here at week 4, and buds are starting to develop.:
Had to change the reflector because of overcrowding/headroom. Someone on here said the envirolite would be like a shot of steroids - they were right!So I have a question for those with experience: Would I be better off cutting the lower growth that doesn't receive much light for max yield? The addition of the envirolite positioned were you can see the burnt tips, has encouraged them to grow but, they're are not budding.
Got some more additives from the Canadian Xpress line; Head Master, and Regen-a-root. Both highly recommended by growers everywhere online.
I'm hoping for at least 1 1/2 to 2 O's with her; is that reasonable? Anyone want to estimate yield?
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Divine Cosmos
Member
Divine: Without seeing all your plants, its hard to estimate final weight. One thing I see though is that with your light so close to your plants without a heat shield, you probably have a temperature problem. Biggest thing with temperature is that if it gets too hot, plants slow down growing. In flower this just means they flower slowly, as in when they finish they won't have grown all the way (airy buds). They will still be 'ripe' and ready to be picked, just not dense and fat as they would be if grown cooler.
I have had a lot of experience with and without a heat shield. Even with one, and with fans blowing on the light, my plants closest to the light (under the heat shield mind you) still get in the low 80's.
Your plants look very healthy, just a little under developed for week 4 (could be due to heat). Your pictures might not be giving your plants justice, but they look like they are a week behind mine and mine are at week 3.
As for your last question about trimming....YES, DO IT NOW!!! I trim as they begin to flower. By week 2-3 I like to have all my trimming done. All the lower bud sites are gone (only 3-4" below canopy remaining). This grow I'm trimming larger fan leaves as well. Previous grows I wouldn't touch them, but with a 150W you really need all the light you can get to penetrate the canopy. I would get A+ buds at the top, but just a few inches below canopy, the buds were clearly lacking light and became fluffy and lighter colored. This round I trimmed about 50% of the upper fan leaves. Unlike previous grows, even the bud sites below the canopy are swelling nicely. Definitely a big improvement over keeping the leaves.
Some people say that cutting fan leaves = removing food that will make buds later (lower final weight). I see their point, but if light isn't allowed to get to the bud sites, there will be no buds to grow. So there needs to be a good balance. I'd imagine that with a higher wattage bulb with better penetration, there wouldn't be as much of a need for trimming; if any at all.
[Edit] Another thing to add, by trimming the small stuff away and opening the canopy up, air is allowed to move more freely. This is important because you don't want to get powdery mildew. Trust me on that one...
Knock on wood...I haven't had a problem since I've started trimming my canopy (and since I increased airflow).
I have had a lot of experience with and without a heat shield. Even with one, and with fans blowing on the light, my plants closest to the light (under the heat shield mind you) still get in the low 80's.
Your plants look very healthy, just a little under developed for week 4 (could be due to heat). Your pictures might not be giving your plants justice, but they look like they are a week behind mine and mine are at week 3.
As for your last question about trimming....YES, DO IT NOW!!! I trim as they begin to flower. By week 2-3 I like to have all my trimming done. All the lower bud sites are gone (only 3-4" below canopy remaining). This grow I'm trimming larger fan leaves as well. Previous grows I wouldn't touch them, but with a 150W you really need all the light you can get to penetrate the canopy. I would get A+ buds at the top, but just a few inches below canopy, the buds were clearly lacking light and became fluffy and lighter colored. This round I trimmed about 50% of the upper fan leaves. Unlike previous grows, even the bud sites below the canopy are swelling nicely. Definitely a big improvement over keeping the leaves.
Some people say that cutting fan leaves = removing food that will make buds later (lower final weight). I see their point, but if light isn't allowed to get to the bud sites, there will be no buds to grow. So there needs to be a good balance. I'd imagine that with a higher wattage bulb with better penetration, there wouldn't be as much of a need for trimming; if any at all.
[Edit] Another thing to add, by trimming the small stuff away and opening the canopy up, air is allowed to move more freely. This is important because you don't want to get powdery mildew. Trust me on that one...
Knock on wood...I haven't had a problem since I've started trimming my canopy (and since I increased airflow).
Divine Cosmos
Member
Thanks for the input Barnt. That is the only plant I have, it has been topped.
To be honest I haven't seen serious signs of heat stress from the canopy, apart from the edges curling ever so slightly on the leaves 3 perilous inches from the bulb. Some leaves have developed that cool waxy look - which protects them from harsh light, right? I never had this growing with CFL, Hps Rules!
She wasn't put under the 150 untill 2 weeks in to bloom, and the slowness I put down to nute lockout/def and stress from super-cropping/lst, although there maybe other factors - grow tent off-gassing?!
I put a lighter in for scale, hope this gives an accurate size for anyone wishing to estimate yield. In the 2nd picture you can see yellowing on the new growth, not sure if this is Iron/Sulfur/Nitrogen def. I cut back on the nutes after some burn, but now I'm unsure of what is a happy medium (must get EC meter
) I followed your advice and cut some lower growth, but hesitated on going mad because I may wish to re-veg.
Did you obtain more yield when you trimmed? I find the argument behind chopping the fan leaves a little flawed; after all, aren't the fan leaves creating sugars ultimately for the buds? If the large fan leaves are cut then the light has to travel further (= less lumen's ) to get to the lower foliage/bud sites. Extra energy is lost then in having to create more leaf matter to support bud development. If the lower leaves are creating enough energy just to support themselves, and the plant has overall adequate nute levels, why trim? Maybe I haven't understood something.
That's all folks!
To be honest I haven't seen serious signs of heat stress from the canopy, apart from the edges curling ever so slightly on the leaves 3 perilous inches from the bulb. Some leaves have developed that cool waxy look - which protects them from harsh light, right? I never had this growing with CFL, Hps Rules!
She wasn't put under the 150 untill 2 weeks in to bloom, and the slowness I put down to nute lockout/def and stress from super-cropping/lst, although there maybe other factors - grow tent off-gassing?!I put a lighter in for scale, hope this gives an accurate size for anyone wishing to estimate yield. In the 2nd picture you can see yellowing on the new growth, not sure if this is Iron/Sulfur/Nitrogen def. I cut back on the nutes after some burn, but now I'm unsure of what is a happy medium (must get EC meter
) I followed your advice and cut some lower growth, but hesitated on going mad because I may wish to re-veg.Did you obtain more yield when you trimmed? I find the argument behind chopping the fan leaves a little flawed; after all, aren't the fan leaves creating sugars ultimately for the buds? If the large fan leaves are cut then the light has to travel further (= less lumen's ) to get to the lower foliage/bud sites. Extra energy is lost then in having to create more leaf matter to support bud development. If the lower leaves are creating enough energy just to support themselves, and the plant has overall adequate nute levels, why trim? Maybe I haven't understood something.
That's all folks!
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Divine Cosmos
Member
C
Cozy Amnesia
Good looking plants cosmos, how many weeks do you have left?
Today I build myself a reflector for the 150w HPS and a bunch of supplemental CFLs. Here it is in all it's glory:
Today I build myself a reflector for the 150w HPS and a bunch of supplemental CFLs. Here it is in all it's glory:
Dang cozy, That looks like something out of an old Star Trek episode. Nicely done.
And here's my thoughts on trimming fan leaves (for what its worth)
The trimming of fan leaves is always good for a heated conversation. If you ask 5 different growers their opinion, you’re likely to get 10 different answers. And, all of them may have some merit. Those that say they should remain to provide sugars and the like have a valid point. However, every grow is different and has its own challenges and needs. So with all due respect to the “non-trimmers”, I’ll tell you how I grow and what works for me…. as most folks know, I grow up to six good size plants in a DWC-Wardrobe all under a single 150w HPS. They are usually sativas and allowed to reach well over 2-feet high. I’ve been doing this for many years and I am a huge fan of trimming leaves. My trimming starts at about one month into flower. It is very slow and conservative at first, and becomes much more aggressive as the plant nears harvest. By the time a plant is ready for harvest, almost all of the large fan leaves have been removed. This is not a method for the faint of heart, and takes a bit of practice to get the timing down. However, I now can consistently produce colas that are nice and tight and over a foot in length, all under a 150w HPS. Again, this method works very well in my situation, but may likely do the opposite in a different set-up. Every grower should find out what will work best for t heir own ihttp://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/815749_Tall_Plant_Top.jpgndividual style of growing
Here’s a look at one of my plants right before harvest. You can see just how barren the branches are and the top is almost all bud.
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/815748_Tall_Plant.jpg
And here's my thoughts on trimming fan leaves (for what its worth)
The trimming of fan leaves is always good for a heated conversation. If you ask 5 different growers their opinion, you’re likely to get 10 different answers. And, all of them may have some merit. Those that say they should remain to provide sugars and the like have a valid point. However, every grow is different and has its own challenges and needs. So with all due respect to the “non-trimmers”, I’ll tell you how I grow and what works for me…. as most folks know, I grow up to six good size plants in a DWC-Wardrobe all under a single 150w HPS. They are usually sativas and allowed to reach well over 2-feet high. I’ve been doing this for many years and I am a huge fan of trimming leaves. My trimming starts at about one month into flower. It is very slow and conservative at first, and becomes much more aggressive as the plant nears harvest. By the time a plant is ready for harvest, almost all of the large fan leaves have been removed. This is not a method for the faint of heart, and takes a bit of practice to get the timing down. However, I now can consistently produce colas that are nice and tight and over a foot in length, all under a 150w HPS. Again, this method works very well in my situation, but may likely do the opposite in a different set-up. Every grower should find out what will work best for t heir own ihttp://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/815749_Tall_Plant_Top.jpgndividual style of growing
Here’s a look at one of my plants right before harvest. You can see just how barren the branches are and the top is almost all bud.
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/815748_Tall_Plant.jpg
Divine Cosmos
Member
Good looking plants cosmos, how many weeks do you have left?
Thanks Cozy, she has about 4 weeks to go???
That's a dope ghetto hood you fashioned there - hat's off. Is that how close you usually have the lights?
Pipedream, thanks for clearing that up for me. All about timing gotcha
I didn't think it was possible to grow such a large plant in a tiny dwc bucket! That second pic's got me drooling... You certainly know what your doing.
