goal:pre-fertilized coco+water only

have run several types of growing methods. have found success w/ ease of coco.

have any members attempted to pre-mix ferts into coco, and only fed w/ water, for the entire crop life?

after running coco w/ wicks and run-off never dumped, want to make it even easier:

-mix coco w/ quality dry fertilizers into raised bed.
-mix wicks into media.
-extend wicks into large container of water underneath.
-never have to water or apply fertilizers throughout crop life cycle.

has this been attempted w/ coco, or hempy buckets?

if so, pros/cons?

if not, potential pros/cons?

any dry fertilizers comparable to gh flora nova series?

*professional/kiss visual objective, based on this mix/garden:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1843024&postcount=68
in the same professional/kiss thread.
[propers to member blazeoneup for demo]

enjoy your garden!

purpledomgoddes said:

any dry fertilizers comparable to gh flora nova series?

Click to expand...

That I can answer....
Maxi series from GH.
MaxiBloom has just about the same nutrient profile as FloraNova Bloom.

Problems with that type of system (regardless of the medium, applies to soil as far as I'm concerned too0 :

1) You have no control of the nutes once they're in. What's in is in.
2) You pretty much can't flush it out, not quickly enough to fix a problem anyway
3) I don't know if any dry nutes that will last the length of a ~3-month grow, usually they're gone in 4-6 weeks.

I wouldn't do it, what's the point of using a fairly inert medium if you are gonna add a bunch of stuff to it? Just my two cents

Lazyman said:

Problems with that type of system (regardless of the medium, applies to soil as far as I'm concerned too0 :

1) You have no control of the nutes once they're in. What's in is in.
2) You pretty much can't flush it out, not quickly enough to fix a problem anyway
3) I don't know if any dry nutes that will last the length of a ~3-month grow, usually they're gone in 4-6 weeks.

I wouldn't do it, what's the point of using a fairly inert medium if you are gonna add a bunch of stuff to it? Just my two cents

Click to expand...

good points to consider, relevant to permanence, and duration of dry ferts. there does seem to be a number of ferts on the market that asserts very long durations; as much as 8-9 months.

fairly inert medium is very forgiving, physically/structurally, compared to other media.

another option is just to mix 50 gallons of flora nova. there used to be member that mixed 40 gallons of flora nova bloom for entire crop, on ebb/flow tables. can placed underneath bed, w/ wicks in, end.

only issue w/ that is keeping aeration of nute rez. have air/water pumps, air stones/soaker/etc, etc, etc.

machines/tubes/pumps get in way, now. want to keep machines @ bay and enjoy garden!

dongle69 said:

That I can answer....
Maxi series from GH.
MaxiBloom has just about the same nutrient profile as FloraNova Bloom.

Click to expand...

thx. will look into that brand.

The first thing I could see is a need for lots of oyster shell calcium to be added. Would probably want to add compost or EWC to the coco too.

Hope that helps.

I will be running a 60% soil (blazeoneups mix)/ to 40% gh coco tek bricks in 3gals under a 600hps next run w/ pbp bloom, lk, and calmag for back up if they run low on food. With no run off.

There will be a batch oh these, Femal Seeds ICE, going into flower in about a week. I'll keep you posted.

It's kind of a baby step toward full on coco for me.

caljim said:

I will be running a 60% soil (blazeoneups mix)/ to 40% gh coco tek bricks in 3gals under a 600hps next run w/ pbp bloom, lk, and calmag for back up if they run low on food. With no run off.

There will be a batch oh these, Femal Seeds ICE, going into flower in about a week. I'll keep you posted.

It's kind of a baby step toward full on coco for me.

Click to expand...

can use kitty litter tray to catch run-off, if want to put hole(s) in buckets.

if not, use the weight of the bucket as barometer.

w/ 3 gal buckets, will only have to water ~24-32 oz. every 2-4 days.

mid-flower is where you will find they transpire gallons a day.

*btw, got idea of non-draining bucket from oct 2001 issue of ht, story called 'chronic crew' by kyle kushman.

good luck!

food grade buckets are easily acquired free from donut shops/bakeries, so can use bucket-in-bucket to catch+hold run-off.

have used standard nylon (non-leaded) rope couple times to wick up run-off from bottom bucket.

am considering something like this in future:
http://www.majacmedical.com.au/cloths_towels/aquasorb.html
aquasorb micro-fiber towels. claims to hold 315% of its weight (in moisture), without dripping.

ran no-run-off in regular tote and was unable to see how much water rested in bottom of single bucket; only weight. w/ wick system, can see how much comes out + how much is drank in a day.

have rectangular kitty litter bucket (4 gal) that sits in rectangular 8 gal tote. can sit there and actually watch the plant drinking water by way of drawing it up thru wick. w/ h202 added, can control any mold that may want to grow on rope or in shallow pool of run-off.

*note: mature plant can easily drink 1-2 gallons a day. have dehumidification in order. that water goes thru plant and winds up in atmosphere. if not removed, can make stomata close due to high rh (external vapor pressure).

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

PDG--when part of my room goes straight coco i want to limit the varables, so drain to waste looks like the road i'm going down. just have to get a little gear in place, drain table/stand.

Honestly, i'm just using up the last of a hot soil mix and some freebie coco blocks
will make up the diffence. i'll try to get a 50/50 mix and run against a plant or two that are just the hot soil mix.

Got any thoughts on optimal ph? To me 6.3 should hit the mark.

caljim said:

PDG--when part of my room goes straight coco i want to limit the varables, so drain to waste looks like the road i'm going down. just have to get a little gear in place, drain table/stand.

Honestly, i'm just using up the last of a hot soil mix and some freebie coco blocks
will make up the diffence. i'll try to get a 50/50 mix and run against a plant or two that are just the hot soil mix.

Got any thoughts on optimal ph? To me 6.3 should hit the mark.

Click to expand...

gh flora nova seems to maintain ph stability between 6.0-6.5.

plants enjoy a ph drift, as different molecules assimilate @ different ph's. also, different plants may prefer different ph's @ different periods of the season.

here, really dont check ph in/out. just pour cap full of gh flora nova per gallon, and it will buffer itself.

never dump run-off either. checked ph after 5 weeks of flowering (during which time have not once dumped the run-off that the plants wick up), and it was between 6.2 and 6.5. have watered and fed many times over these weeks.

enjoy your garden!

Hmm, with no drain buckets, how do you flush?

I like the wick idea though, probably keeps the plants happier by allowing them to drink when they want it, not when its neighbor is dry or the timer kicks on!

Lazyman said:

Hmm, with no drain buckets, how do you flush?

I like the wick idea though, probably keeps the plants happier by allowing them to drink when they want it, not when its neighbor is dry or the timer kicks on!

Click to expand...

description of method(s) currently employed will be in thread soon to post...

have to apply minimum amount of ferts to be able to thoroughly flush @ end, if ferts applied in media itself. have never run method w/ ferts already in media, so will have to put in barest minimum 1st run, to see if comparable to gh fnb; and if/when nutes run out.

will not do reverse and mix in too much nutes and scale back from there. can always pour in a gallon of fnb to fix any ailments.

potential pre-mix fertilizers:

1.
General Hydroponics MaxiBloom
Dry Concentrated Nutrient
[5n-15p-14k-5ca-3.5mg-4s]
Use for the reproductive stage in fast growing annuals. MaxiBloom encourages prolific flowering and fruiting, and increases yields and crop quality.

2.
Soil Moist Flower and Garden Plus
Each one pound package contains a minimum of 7425 viable propagules derived from seven species of
endomycorrhizal fungi. Soil Moist water storing granules and a 8-9 month timed released 3-3-3 fertilizer is included
in the formulation which includes:
• Sea kelp extract Ecklonia Maxima (over 70 trace elements) which are plant growth components which aid in
chlorophyll production and cell division.
• Leondardite humates which improve the soil structure and stimulate plant growth.
• Minimum of 3 billion colony forming units from 50 strains of bacteria which include 15 strains of Bacillus, 5
strains of Psuedomonas and 10 strains of Streptomycetes. These bacteria have numerous benefits which include
and not limited to promoting root growth, formulation and improved soil structure.
• Five strains of Trichoderma fungi that produce natural growth hormones.
• Folic and fulvic acid to enhance plant growth, biotin, natural sugars and vitamins B, B1, B2, B3 and B12 to
promote plant growth and establishment.
There are six attractive one pound retail jars per case with a descriptive shelf taker. Each one pound container will
treat 100 square feet of bedding area or seven 1” caliper trees or forty 1 gallon containers. Other package sizes
include two pound retail tubs and bulk containers of five and thirty pound pails.

3.
Soil Moist Plus 7-7-7
a synthetic acrylic water storing polymer blended with an 8-9 month timed release 7-7-7 fertilizer. It is a safe, non-toxic polymer used in all horticultural and landscape applications. When used according to the application rates, SOIL MOIST PLUS 7-7-7 will reduce irrigation frequency by 50% and last 3-5 years in the soil. The fertilizer is effective in the soil for 8-9 months at 70°F.

4.
Dry Molasses
[1n-0p-5k]
Dry molasses isn’t really dried molasses. It’s actually a solid organic residue carrier that has been sprayed with liquid molasses. Soy is a common choice. It’s an excellent carbon and carbohydrate source that stimulates beneficial microorganisms effectively. And it repels fire ants from properties in most cases. It can be used as a bed preparation ingredient or applied on the surface of soil. The usual rate is 20 lbs. per 1000 sq. ft.
from this site:
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/organic/garden/view_question/id/2601/

5.
horticultural corn meal
Horticultural corn meal is an organic product that helps fight root and soil related fungal problems. Corn meal is an effective way to build soil quality, and unlike chemical products, it will not burn or damage plants.


6.
vita grow SuperMicro Dry 4-14-24
When plants are in a vegetative state the Super Micro and Super Grow recipe is used. If you want a plant to be pushed into bloom, the Giant Bloom formula is added to the Super Micro and Super Grow recipe. By separating the formulas this way the grower can increase or decrease nitrogen (Super Grow) or phosphorus (Giant Bloom) as the plants demand without interfering with the micro-nutrients (Super Micro). This is how the professional greenhouse growers mix and match elements and compound for each stage of plant growth.

resource where metals in commercial ferts are listed:
http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/Metals.aspx

preliminary goal:
mix dry ferts and amendments (+/-) in bed/tub w/ coco-based mix.

rope wicks mixed in media, and extending into reservoir.

reservoir contains only water.

ideal goal:
reservoir large enough to never have to top off/large top-off res.
this way, should be able to go through entire flowering phase w/out watering, fertilizing, or attending daily, or even weekly.

*this mix is intended for flowering/fruiting only; not veg.

I know MaxiBloom is supposed to be diluted with water first, so be careful if you try to mix that in dry!

dongle69 said:

I know MaxiBloom is supposed to be diluted with water first, so be careful if you try to mix that in dry!

Click to expand...

how much should be mixed in for a full flower season (9-10 weeks)?

for purposes of scale, say in a 5 gallon bucket?

1-2 tablespoons?

purpledomgoddes said:

how much should be mixed in for a full flower season (9-10 weeks)?
for purposes of scale, say in a 5 gallon bucket?
1-2 tablespoons?

Click to expand...

I couldn't say about a full seasons' worth.
I use about 1-2 tsp/gal in hydro.

dongle69 said:

I couldn't say about a full seasons' worth.
I use about 1-2 tsp/gal in hydro.

Click to expand...

if am going to mix big res and just place wicks in, can just use flora nova bloom.

so, dont add maxi bloom to media?

not 'time-release' fert?

suppose could mix huge res, and avoid pre-mixing dry/time-release ferts into media. this would provide way to alter npk/additives, if desired.

primary goals (2)
1.
put everything in 1 big tub, only have water in res.
2.
extremely easy to set-up, break down, duplicate and operate. self-sustaining.

objectives of goals (2)
1.
novice to totally inexperienced gardener can set this up, and only be concerned w/ pouring tap water in res, w/out concern for mixing this/that nute @ this/that stage of flowering.

2.
intermediate to very experienced gardener can run set this up, and run relatively remotely, only needing to pour tap water in res periodically (ideally, only ~1 time per month [2 times per full flowering season]).

adapting methods to achieve goals and objectives
if these two goals can be achieved by pre-mixing a res (@least 50+ gallons) w/ flora nova (or comparable stand alone, 1 bottle fert), then will have to adjust and add cheap aerator (air stone/water pump) to res.

really desire to do w/out any reliance on machines. only two(*) machines really want to use are 1) lights; and 2) ac. *edit. fans inside of garden are a must, so minimum of 3 machines. good ac does job of dehumidification.

adding 1 air pump w/ soaker hose, or 1 water pump (to recirculate and prevent stagnation) will be total of 3 machines used. compromise, but not big one.

Correct, MaxiBloom is not a time release fert.

dongle69 said:

Correct, MaxiBloom is not a time release fert.

Click to expand...

then still need a comparable substitute for the 1 part flora nova bloom.

really dont want to replace a 1 part solution w/ a half-dozen mix of this/that, but will if must.

want to make it as simple as possible. media, 1 part fert, wicks, water, add water 1-2 times per grow.

You might want to consider adapting moonshine mix to coco. I am thinking POM ferts.