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Why cannabis legalization vs. decriminilization is disasterous for the global economy

U

ureapwhatusow

listen before you get your flamers out listen to the logic

First and foremost a simple discussion of economies

There are local and global economies

but an aggregate of the world economy consists of the black market

in fact many cannabis magazines have had the very same discussion, that ending the durg trade would end an aggregate of the world black market thus causeing global recession/depression on the shift in GNP

NOW

couple that with teh antiquated notion we control the market wiht market stratagy

i.e. if we approach the market as kensian economists we control it as such

I think we all know we can influence markets, but the untold variables we dont see, the black swans of teh econimic world keep the nature of economic systems in constant ebb and flow or cycles, thus keepimng man form completely controlling our own destiny

now if marijuana becomes legal, it now undermines the aggregate of contribution to the black market, but furthermore brings marijuana out of the free market into a government controlled one

now many will argue markets self correct

well the self correction will be in comptuer crime, which is the most aggressively growing segment of the black market economy

the detriment to comptuer crime its normaly one perpetrator one victim where in mariujana is a outlawed aggricultural product that works like many traditional markets, allowing many to benefit fomr the market process of grow to harvest to sell

Now back to economy

i think after the great depression many invested learned to diversify

WE NEED TO BE DIVERSE in our approach in infuencing economies

we cant use just one economic model and not expect massive wholesale failure if the system does not live up to expectation

so why if in all aspects of our being we "know not to put all our own eggsin oone basket" would we do so when trying to drive the wrold econoomy?

Now this is why i think decriminilization should be what we seek

WE DO NOT NEED GOVERMENT REGUALTION TO LIMIT THE POTENTIAL FOR MARIUANA TO CHANGE THEWORLD ECONOMIES

THE ADVENT OF THE INFORMATION AGE AND THE INTERNET ONLY EXPLODED BECAUSE IT WAS BEYOND COMPLETE GOVERENT REGUALTION AND CONTROL

and as control is exerted, the fluid and diverse market of internet technologies becomes more homoginized, and thus less progressive and less furtile in terms of breeding new emerging markets. More control and restictions means less wats to leverage global communications in uninvisioned and thus new unpredicted and thus allocated for

this allowed many ppl fomr humble beginings to grab strength and pwer, which also helps keep anyone form gaining power and holding it, if emerging markets can provide unpredictable shifts in economic resources

predictable markets are controlled by the powers that be


ok so ureap you rambled a bit wtf are you saying

well what im saying is we get more economic bang for our buck with this plant in the world economy if it simply gets decriminilized

some economies need a alternative to government taxed income to stay stable

YES, economies with diverse markets are more stable. we need controlled markets, but we need uncontrolled markets as well

as an uncontrolled market, pot is basically taxless farming

it allows the level of society wiht least opportuninty to achieve a level of suceess that may otherwise be impossible. that kind of economic stagnance and lack of opportunity is hurting many socialistic guided economies

PPL need an alternative to mainstream so do economies

diversity is the key to balance

we need free uncontrolled markets because they act as economic vehicles that work far faster in correcting itself because it does not suffer the encumberence of government.

now please i love my country its people and i dont think the government is all that bad, i think ppl, politics and governments need to evolve to an understand that we need to work with the natural cycles of the economic markets, not try to exert absolute control because we cant

at best we can influence, we need free markets, much like a nature perserve to balance the part of the econmic landscape we have developed

so do we, for all of its untapped potential, want to contain this plant and all its wonder in the trappings of bureaucracy?


its a weed keep it free, i dont think we need a government to teach us about a organism that has been here perhaps longer than us
 

MarquisBlack

St. Elsewhere
Veteran
The main point in this argument, which you've touched upon, is that full out legalization of Cannabis would strip us of one of the few commodities that still exists in a Global "Free Market" of it's own. I fully agree.
 
U

ureapwhatusow

The main point in this argument, which you've touched upon, is that full out legalization of Cannabis would strip us of one of the few commodities that still exists in a Global "Free Market" of it's own. I fully agree.

thank you for so gracefully condensing my rant into a sentence
 
U

ureapwhatusow

a great example

our municipalites used to make water availavble via drinking fountains, and for a good portion of my life water wasnt something you coudl by

now corporations sell water, an essential element, and if ya want the good stuff your gonna pay, buit its still in plastic

FUCK THAT

keep weed free dont let it go the way of water

what the fuk is next taxing air?!?!?!
 

boroboro

Member
Weird, wild, wacky, way-out ideas there Ureap! I'm already an anarchist pothead, but I still had a hard time catching on there.

How about this, though: If pot is legal and the regulations are a bitch to follow, a grower could just sell his stuff on the black market, just like today. Of course, the black market would be smaller and less powerful than today, for better and worse.
 

9Lives

three for playing, three for straying, and three f
Veteran
If its legal everyone who wants it can grow their own...Are you saying someone is going to tax the plants in my garden ?

I really don't think the Cannabis industrie would change the world economy in a significant way. It's small potatoes when you compare it to other stuff..Small countries maybe..

It should be legal so everyone could freely grow their own. If you can't grow your own...who's problem is that ? It's about ethics not business...

They are taxing the shit out of mj right no IMO...by the numerous unfortunate ones that get caught pay fines and get their properties seized.

I don't think cannabis will have a profound effect on the economy. It is just unethical to keep it illegal and it's counter productive to give money to organized crime..


I really couldnt give a shit about consumers...grow your own be it food or weed...or prepare to get fucked..
 
U

ureapwhatusow

my thought is should be decriminilizerd

that is .. no legal statues, you can grow sell whatever wihtout government regulation OR support or the down sides that go wiht it

i think every human should be able to have access to certain things without having to marry into society, our freedom of choice should be real

why be forced to live according to modern medicine, there are many alertnatives that are not regulated at all and they are used with success i am simply suggesting the same for weed
 

love?

Member
I've often wondered what all the criminals who get their livelihood from cannabis will do when legalization happens. I seriously doubt all of them are going to become law-abiding citizens and some of them may turn to ventures that, unlike cannabis, aren't very beneficial to society.
 

love?

Member
Btw. even if cannabis is legal, the black market can and will still exist because of taxation etc and this is especially true if there are going to be shitty regulations that smokers don't agree with. In the dutch municipalities that allow coffeeshops approximately 30% of cannabis products are sold outside them (according to the EMCDDA).
 

slappyjack

Member
All I want is to be able to grow my three plants for personal use without worry of arrest. Whatever that takes, I hope it happens. Maybe we just need a new word other than decriminalization or legalization? Frankly I don't care what they call it, as long as I can grow in peace.

I have no desire to ever buy government approved Marlboro Greens.
 

Koroz

Member
I don't think there is anyone here who would be against full decriminalization compared to legalization and regulation. The problem comes that for most states who claim to have decriminalized it, all they have done is added fines for lower quantities and still keep it an offense for selling or having more then a certain amount.

If my choices are keep it illegal, or have to pay taxes and not risk my house, risk custody of my children or risk being put in jail. I would vote for legalization.

If my choice was to pay a fine for having a small amount or going to jail for having a large amount compared to paying taxes to sell or buy it, but the ability to grow my own under 10 plants was untaxed then I would vote for legalization.

If my choice was either full on freedom to sell or own any amount with no taxes and no risk of jail or fines then yes of course I would want that.

As for the comparison to water, it just isn't true. You can go outside, if you know how to filter rain water, and get all the water you want for free. You aren't "FORCED" to buy "higher quality water for more money". Higher quality to what standards are you referring to? Most bottled water has more crap in it then tap.

And I hate to tell you about the internet, you still pay taxes for using it.. They are minor but you pay them. You pay taxes on cell phone usage also. I would also argue that in some places Cannabis isn't a free market, because free market hints that only supply and demand will control price and no third party will change the price of a product based on force. But in reality the price is controlled by not only the dealer and the buyer but the illegality of it. In other words the government controls the pricing by how hard they enforce the laws in the local sector.

I don't agree by any stretch of the imagination that full legalization would destroy the world economy. If anything, at least in the US, the money saved by tax payers and the government would be reintroduced into the economy and counter act the loss of funds of the very select few drug dealers who contribute back into it by buying goods with the money garnered from sales.
 

AP KUSH

Member
Take marijuana off the drug schedule all together. Don't even give it a status. Dont make it legal or illegal, just let it be what it is.

If you want to grow it, good.
If you want to smoke it, great.
If you want to sell it, fine.

Just don't put people in prison for any marijuana related activity.
All the violence and lateral criminal activity associated with marijuana is a result of the lack of regulation of the black market.
Now, all these lateral crimes involving guns, violence and truly threatening activity should be stopped by some kind of law enforcement agency.

Simple example: Salesman sells oz of weed to customer who proceeds to running away without paying. The salesman catches the thief, beats him up with a pipe and takes his weed back.
In my world, the salesman would go to court and have to answer for the beating, but marijuana charges would never be brought against him because they did not exist in the lawbooks.


Set weed free to be the wonderful plant that it is :D
 
U

ureapwhatusow

AP Kush - agreed

i believe that we need to have some markets governmet controlled and some need to be free in order for us to have a economy with less severe cycles


the market pot adheres to now, the free market, is provof its dynamic works under the pressure of illegality

what does legalization mean to mean and does legalization threaten me from a fiscal standpoint?

no not at all, and infact since i dont like illegal activities i think my life woudl be greatly improved if it were

will weeds value be lessened if its legalized?

the black market will still survive and the people the government does not see fit to qualify for medical necessity or other legal parameters will only have the black market to supply thoier needs there willl still be arrest of marijuana users and suppliers, use will be illegal for many still

lets use oxycoton as a comaprison
ts black market value is tremendous even though it is legal

the cost of legalization on the people will be in the form of tax to oversee what we do and how we do it

decriminilization requires nul intervention from the government, and thuis requires they dont need to realize their existencevia their income
 

dopeshow

Member
IMHO your ideas aren't very well thought out... and way off...

First off, the Federal Reserve, the IMF, and Hedge Fund managers have more influence in the global economy then the "relatively" small impact cannabis has on the OVERALL black market. And to supplement that, there are plenty of things that make up the black market, the absence of cannabis on the black market will NOT destroy the black market.

Decriminalization is such an awful idea. Horrible idea. It is like the ultimate cock tease for a cannabis user/grower/lover. Decriminalization would say it's okay for you to possess and smoke small amounts, but growing, selling, transporting, and large amounts would STILL be illegal. Which is the entire point that people have been fighting for dude... it's beyond bogus to arrest people for cannabis. They don't arrest people for growing tomatoes or corn in their back yard. They don't arrest people for selling homegrown veggies (not yet I know I know don't link that bill :p )... Cannabis is unique and special compared to any other plant and even narcotics. It doesn't act like a narcotic in the way that we think of "narcotics" like cocaine, heroin, alcohol, even caffeine. It is against everything that is right to arrest anyone for cannabis, and under a decriminalized model... people would be arrested for cannabis, drug lords still get their money, people spend a part of their lives in the prison... I'm ashamed that you are pot smoker and you advocate that kind of model...

The only true answer to prohibition is to end it completely. Legalize. That is the solution to the problem. Jobs will be created for production, transport, even possibly a new sort of "liquor store" types of stores if they write the bill correctly. Tax is inevitable, you pay tax on basically everything. If you don't like taxes, you're living on the wrong planet. So suck it and take one for the team is all I've got to say on that one. Paying a small tax for the removal of the fear of prison is worth it IMO. And when you consider the new business market created around the world... not only for the on the books profit for the stores, the manufactures, the movers... but the tax revenue for the governments as well. Whatever small monetary effect removing cannabis from the black market has on the global economy, introducing that very same market in a more relaxed and friendly state will surely still bring in trillions of dollars worldwide. Money would still go to the growers and the transporters... but now you can't just be the dude that sits by the phone all day waiting for a drop, you might actually have to apply to a job to operate a truck or you might actually have to apply for a license to grow... considering what's at stake, NOT that big of a deal.

This is hardly a discussion at all. Legalization is the best and only option. Decriminalization essentially keeps us in the same boat... grow pot, you go to jail What a miserable idea that is...

And being crabby over the absence of a free market is kind of pointless. Hardly anything, if anything, is free market or has been for a while. It's a guise... we call ourselves capitalists but US policy has had socialist aspects for MANY MANY MANY years. If you're not taking to the streets because of the Federal Reserve or massive corporation bailouts or oil interests, then attempting to take a moral stand for the free market of cannabis is beyond pointless. You already forgot to care about the more important things in life...
 

dopeshow

Member
AP Kush - agreed

decriminilization requires nul intervention from the government, and thuis requires they dont need to realize their existencevia their income

That is completely false... because decriminalization means the government, DEA and LEO, will definitely intervene and bust large movers, growers, and sellers.

Even in the Netherlands people get arrested for growing...

QUIT ARRESTING PEOPLE FOR POT, thats the answer... decriminalization doesn't give you that....
 

Chomp

Member
ureapwhatusow - I do see some logic in your thoughts...but the REAL economic impact when it comes to legalization or TRUE decriminalization is hemp...If cannabis is allowed then by default hemp will be as well....The hemp industry has the potential to absolutely dwarf the cannabis for smoking industry and should not be left out of any legalization/decrim debate. That is where the real potential for a new green economy lies and it has just as many enemies as mary jane.
 
U

ureapwhatusow

ureapwhatusow - I do see some logic in your thoughts...but the REAL economic impact when it comes to legalization or TRUE decriminalization is hemp...If cannabis is allowed then by default hemp will be as well....The hemp industry has the potential to absolutely dwarf the cannabis for smoking industry and should not be left out of any legalization/decrim debate. That is where the real potential for a new green economy lies and it has just as many enemies as mary jane.



agreed 100%

i we look at the effect of tech on the global economy, most tech was born before regulations, encounterd little regulation during its infancy and grew beyond our predicted forecasts, due to a large part IMO due to it loss if impediments encountered due to beauracuracy

I dont want the liberty to grow pot under the government

i want the freedom to grow pot without any say from anyone / things besides sun wind rain
 
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