Vertical first attempt

Nice growth! How tall were they at day 1 of flower? I'd like to see what type of stretch % you end up with.

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Thanks Romulus, They ranged between 20" and 24" at day 1 12/12... I wanted to grow them taller before flip but they just kept getting wider and I was running out of space.

Day 11 12/12 they are around 26" to 32" so they aren't getting too much taller but it's not over yet..

I don't think they are going to get as tall as I wanted to truly make use of stacked bulbs so yield will suffer but I can't say I'm not happy with the results so far. This is the first run so I'm not expecting a monster yield anyway..

The CM is very short and dense, these should have been vegged longer for sure. The RB's are the tallest but not near as dense as the CM. The GDP seems like the perfect in between, it's as tall as the RB's with nearly the density of the CM's. It is a little early to tell but I will probably monocrop the GDP next run.

Thanks Prowler!!!


Thanks Bobble, I'm not sure how much advise I can give you as your skills are top knotch but I'll try to help if I can..


I couldn't resist taking some more pics of Day11 12/12 (checked my thread) ... Looking at the pics, it's time to raise the light again, the canopy has swallowed the 400 HPS. It's getting exciting, I can see the bud sites clumping up with white hairs and there is alot of them, going to get busy

I have been lightly trimming fan leaves daily but I'm not going to trim too heavy until stretch is over. After the bud sites become more clear, I will prune lots of fan leaves and train the buds to max light exposure.

Here are some pics:






Here is the CM bush right side of pic:





Here is the RB bush tall lady in left rear:





Here is the GDP bush right side of pic:





Some more shots:

I like your setup, Aero. Nice show.

I second that^

your fortune today: wake up and smell the flowers...

lucky numbers: 4,2,0,907...

learn chinese: da ma...(marijuana)

I just stepped out to smoke some da ma and WOW Aero your room BLEW the FUK up....nice work (as always) bro!

Oh I HIGHLY suggest you read up on defolitating and how it can improve yields I am doing it a lot on my stadium grow with excellent results in node development and size already.

Grow on!

yer killin it bro. Funny how the gdp was the "accidental" strain but it's your candidate for next run already

I have alot of interest in gdp, do you know what cut it is? and could you get a macro pic or 2 when she starts to gain some weight plz ? I'd love to see the early bud structure.

been dry walling 'n painting and stuff..I'm almost almost there. now if only my clones would pop roots

Oh I HIGHLY suggest you read up on defolitating and how it can improve yields I am doing it a lot on my stadium grow with excellent results in node development and size already.

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Thanks Mrktwiz, I have been reading alot about defoliating and it is clear as mud... I plan to trim alot of fan leaves as soon as stretch is done and the bud sites are defined. I have been removing the obnoxious fan leaves daily but I have been takin it easy for now.

I have alot of interest in gdp, do you know what cut it is? and could you get a macro pic or 2 when she starts to gain some weight plz ? I'd love to see the early bud structure.

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StealthDragon, I am recently very interested in GDP so I went to my source and picked up some local nugs. Tastes just like Welches grape juice and fades to a spicey berry flavor, The high is real chill but functional.
I will try to ask my source if they have any detailed info on the cut I have next time I visit.

So in proper vert grower fashion, I thought I would post the ribeye dinner these nugs lead to:

nice! I'm down with steak and potatoes! Welcome to the club Aero!

mmm looks delicious (and the bud too!) thanks man.

I'm also a big fan of defoliation btw..I have a bagseed pheno of gdp that purples with the light and when I defoliate all the under buds turn purple in a day...it's really weird and the only strain I have that does it. It's strange to see a natural purple like that that isn't brought on by cold but by more light or heat.

Aerohead said:

Thanks Mrktwiz, I have been reading alot about defoliating and it is clear as mud... I plan to trim alot of fan leaves as soon as stretch is done and the bud sites are defined. I have been removing the obnoxious fan leaves daily but I have been takin it easy for now.



StealthDragon, I am recently very interested in GDP so I went to my source and picked up some local nugs. Tastes just like Welches grape juice and fades to a spicey berry flavor, The high is real chill but functional.
I will try to ask my source if they have any detailed info on the cut I have next time I visit.

So in proper vert grower fashion, I thought I would post the ribeye dinner these nugs lead to:

Click to expand...

that is the GDP nuggie!


I just woke up and get to see thse pictures, damn you Aero why you gotta make me hungry soo early its only 5 AM lol

o about the stretch, its only day 11 of 12/12 bro, they'll get taller no worries

cheers,

wow so u went big AAA. well they r looking super dooper great.

Sorry I`ve missed this 1 .......AH , yas gotcher hands full with all that foliage and budsites forming.......Killer job...

I`m diggin the compound butter on the broccoli , beside`s the killer ribeye and full blown tater........Looks like we got another foodie in our midst.......Munchies is a good thingy.....

Hydrosun...Please go google VPD "vapor pressure deficit" if you don`t think major increased humidity has any effect on plants suckin juice and sweatin it out through open stomata for explosive growth as probably the most important factor in plant/foliage growth/budset till after stretch , and swellage till end of cycle......

Here`s hopin big harvey for yas Bro........DHF..........

Looking great Aero, it is really filling up in there, nice work.

DHF said:

Hydrosun...Please go google VPD "vapor pressure deficit" if you don`t think major increased humidity has any effect on plants suckin juice and sweatin it out through open stomata for explosive growth as probably the most important factor in plant/foliage growth/budset till after stretch , and swellage till end of cycle......

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I've done a little research on the subject and many years of growing in desert regions of the SW. I don't know what the perfect RH's for all stages of my grow are, but I do know that high RH in flower retards crystal production and in the case of my LVPK high RH in flower leads to much airier buds and less yield.

I think that my strain is very good at resisting mold, but does so at the expense of yield.

I'm sticking to my 40% RH target for bloom but vegging plants can deal with higher.

I still really think that light, nutes, and air flower are more important for the vegging ladies than RH control and I know high RH in flower is a terrible thing for my kush plants.

Thanks for your personal experience in your particular environment HS.........

What worked for me was trying to keep RH as low as possible last 4 weeks flower , as to where it would benefit you as high as possible all the way through end of stretch........

Really no way for you ta find out without a fogger/ultrasonic humidifier whether or not your yields would increase , but I`m just tryinta let folks know what worked for me as the cards were dealt where I live when I grew big krusty style plants , and everything after with increased numbers of smaller plants FTW.........

VPD is documented as a major factor in a plant`s "circadian rythym" of suckin juice and sweatin it out for explosive growth and major dialage till end of cycle.......

Peace.......DHF.............

Tagged

Tagged

Very very nice show Aero. Looks like everything is pretty dialed in.
Now just sit back and watch the buds swell up

Hopefully things will get real frosty in there, and it'll look like a giant powdered donut!

FIGHT THE LARF!!!!

DHF said:

Sorry I`ve missed this 1 .......AH , yas gotcher hands full with all that foliage and budsites forming.......Killer job...

I`m diggin the compound butter on the broccoli , beside`s the killer ribeye and full blown tater........Looks like we got another foodie in our midst.......Munchies is a good thingy.....

Hydrosun...Please go google VPD "vapor pressure deficit" if you don`t think major increased humidity has any effect on plants suckin juice and sweatin it out through open stomata for explosive growth as probably the most important factor in plant/foliage growth/budset till after stretch , and swellage till end of cycle......

Here`s hopin big harvey for yas Bro........DHF..........

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Great now this old stoner brain of mine has to learn vapor pressure deficit VPD....how the fuck am I supposed to remember all this shit......No really thanks DHF....looks like I gotta kick start the old grey cells and learn something new.

Aero your killing it man!

Computing VPD for plants in a greenhouse

Computing VPD for plants in a greenhouse

Here this outta clear things up on VPD (snicker);

=================================================
Vapour Pressure Deficit, or VPD, is the difference (deficit) between the amount of moisture in the air and how much moisture the air can hold when it is saturated. Once air becomes saturated water will condense out to form clouds, dew or films of water over leaves. It is this last instance that makes VPD important for greenhouse regulation. If a film of water forms on a plant leaf it becomes far more susceptible to rot. On the other hand, as the VPD increases the plant needs to draw more water from its roots (and if it is a cutting, dry out and die). For this reason the ideal range for VPD in a greenhouse is from 0.45 kPa to 1.25 kPa, ideally sitting at around 0.85 kPa. As a general rule, most plants grow well at VPDs of between 0.8 to 0.95 kPa [1]
In ecology, it is the difference between the actual water vapour pressure and the saturation water vapour pressure at a particular temperature. Unlike relative humidity, vapour pressure deficit has a simple nearly straight-line relationship to the rate of evapotranspiration and other measures of evaporation.


Ok this is the really easy part;


To compute the VPD[2] we need the ambient (greenhouse) air temperature, the relative humidity and if possible, the canopy air temperature. We must then compute the saturation pressure. Saturation pressure can be looked up in a psychrometric chart or derived from the Arrhenius equation, a way to compute it directly from temperature is
kPa
where
A = − 1.88x104 B = − 13.1 C = − 1.5x10 − 2 D = 8x10 − 7 E = − 1.69x10 − 11 F = 6.456
T – Temperature of the air in K, T(K) = T(°C) + 273.15
We compute this pressure for both the ambient and canopy temperatures.
We then can compute the actual partial pressure of the water vapour in the air by multiplying by the relative humidity [%]:
vpair = vpsat * relative humidity/100
and finally VPD using vpsat − vpair or vpcanopy sat − vpair when the canopy temperature is known.



EDIT ----> ok ADDED 7:31 pm 2-19-11 (kinda think I am figuring this out a bit hope this helps)

How does VPD compare to relative humidity?

Figure 1 shows how VPD relates to the customary thinking about humidity. Higher VPD means that the air has a higher capacity to hold water, stimulating water vapor transfer (transpiration) into the air in this low humidity condition. Lower VPD, on the other hand, means the air is at or near saturation, so the air cannot accept moisture from the leaf in this high humidity condition. Figure 1. Vapor Pressure Deficit (VPD) enhances or inhibits the crop’s ability to transpire.
Therefore, vapor pressure deficit is a useful way to express the vapor flow in the system, both for condensation and transpiration. Higher VPD increases the transpirational demand, influencing how much moisture from plant tissues is transferred into the greenhouse air. Consequently, VPD is being used to predict crop water needs in some commercial irrigation systems. In contrast, very low VPD indicates closer proximity to the dew point, meaning harmful condensation can begin to develop. Using the canopy temperature to determine VPD gives the best indication of condensation risk, showing particularly how close the canopy is to the dew point.
VPD calculation is an improvement over relative humidity (RH) measurement alone because VPD takes into account the effect of temperature on the water holding capacity of the air, which roughly doubles with every 20°F increase in temperature. Rather than giving a relative measure of the water content of the air, VPD gives an absolute measure of how much more water the air can hold, and how close it is to saturation. For example, a typical 100' long x 30' wide x 10' high greenhouse with 80% relative humidity has about 14 lb of water in the air at 50°F, while 70°F air holds about 28 lb of water at the same RH. This is reflected in the VPD values of 0.036 psi (0.25 kPa) and 0.072 psi (0.50 kPa), for the lower and higher temperature conditions, respectively (see Figure 2). Thus, VPD can be used to identify healthy air moisture conditions for plant production, while taking into account different temperature levels.
How can VPD be used in greenhouses?

The effects of greenhouse climate measurements on plant health and growth have been studied intensively. VPD can be used to identify disease-causing climate conditions. For example, several studies that explore disease pathogen survival at different climate levels reveal two critical values of VPD. Studies show that fungal pathogens survive best below 0.062 psi VPD (<0.43 kPa). Furthermore, disease infection is most damaging below 0.030 psi (0.20 kPa). Thus, the greenhouse climate should be kept above 0.030 psi (0.20 kPa), to prevent disease and damage to crops. Note that the climate control situation must be reevaluated when biological control agents are being used in the greenhouse, as these organisms require specific VPD conditions for growth and distribution. Table 1 shows a summary of the relative humidity thresholds at several temperatures, which correspond to the 0.030 psi (0.20 kPa) VPD disease prevention threshold.

How is VPD calculated?

There are two procedures that can be used to calculate VPD: (1) use a chart, and (2) use equations. Figure 2 shows a modified psychrometric chart of vapor pressure for a range of temperatures and a number of relative humidities. The chart can be used to find the VPD with the following procedure, and the equation calculation procedure follows.








Measure air temperature and relative humidity inside the greenhouse. If possible, also measure air temperature within the plant canopy. 2) Find the temperature of the air on the horizontal scale, trace the temperature line straight up, stopping at the relative humidity line (darker curved lines) corresponding to the greenhouse RH (estimate between lines for the specific RH value), 3) From this point, trace straight left to the vertical axis and record the vapor pressure (vpair) in psi, 4) Find the canopy temperature (or air temperature if canopy temperature is not available) on the horizontal axis, and trace up to the 100% RH line, 5) Trace straight left to the vertical axis and record the saturated vapor pressure (vpsat) in psi, 6) Find the difference: VPD = vpsat – vpair.

To use calculations:

The following formulas can be used to calculate VPD either directly or by using computer spreadsheet software. 1) Measure air temperature and relative humidity inside the greenhouse. If possible, also measure air temperature within the plant canopy. 2a) Find the saturation vapor pressure of the air (vpsat) in psi:
vpsat = e(A/T + B + CT + DT2 + ET3 + FlnT)
where:
A = -1.044x104 D = 1.289x10-5 B = -1.129x101 E = -2.478x10-9 C = -2.702x10-2 F = 6.456
T – Temperature of the air in °R,
T(°R) = T(°F) + 459.67
2b) Calculate the vpsat of the canopy in psi:
Same as above, T – Temperature of the canopy in °R. If canopy temperature is unknown, proceed to step 3.
3) Calculate vapor pressure in the air (vpair) in psi at the actual relative humidity.
vpair = vpsat x RH ÷ 100
RH – relative humidity (%) of the greenhouse air
vpsat – air saturation vapor pressure (psi)
4) Find the difference, VPD, in psi.
VPD = vpsat – vpair
vpsat – canopy vpsat if known, otherwise use air vpsat


Wahhh my brain hurts

subbed.

I'm lovin this vertical stuff

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DHF again.



This is solid information in plain English coming from a guy with more experience than most of us... maybe all of us. Water is what gives us life. So many chemical reactions are dependent on it... Higher metabolic rate= higher water consumption... Low RH means the plants are going to lose more water through transpiration. RH can be a limiting factor in growth. DHF knows this, so you guys should listen...