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Old 12-08-2017, 02:20 PM #3481
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Originally Posted by plantingplants View Post
You put the tree pot inside another pot right? The humid air coaxes the roots out. Not to say you don't have great root development.

Anyway, in what form do you add metals to your soil and how do you determine how much to add?
correct...The tree pots sit very tightly inside another cavity (in my case a tray the pots I use fit inside, I have also used other pots as well, lots of trial and error to find best) which creates almost an aeroponic effect for the roots (it's not aeroponics at all, the roots just look this way but it's a very humid cavity / area that creates fine root hairs extremely well with proper soil)...

as for soil.. I have a number of large beds here I've been building for years and I take some from that (my micros), use some Pro-Mix (just regular old clean pro-mix bales from AG suppliers, not the BS hydro stores try and sell all juiced up and overpriced). I amend to this, I have posted base ratios I target as well as one of many soil recipes I use somewhere in this thread before, the base ratios at least a couple of times.

I have tested my soils here locally (via Cornell, not sure who they use or if in house) enough times I don't that often anymore as I know fairly well what I'm working with, sorry if that makes others cringe.

I fully agree with most needing more Ca, P, B, Mn, Cu, Zn & Si and less Fe, Mg and especially K - when I add K during grow it's almost always or only Potassium Silicate fwiw. I use a lot of Baicor products, sometimes Amazon carries what I need and they mess up pricing, have gotten a few Gallons of Chelates there recently for under $30 delivered, their selection is limited though.

I foliar feed until I can't anymore and by then I hope I've built the soil enough to get me through till end, if not I use liquid fertilizer and drench, I also use a lot of Ca heavy slurries whether it be Gypsum based or Cal Carb etc

for those on the East Coast, this place is great and they don't FK you on shipping, pretty much charge you exactly what it costs. I have no affiliation but they carry a lot of what any organic farmers use and send out fast and fair pricing.

https://www.7springsfarm.com/

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Old 12-08-2017, 03:59 PM #3482
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Originally Posted by led05 View Post
This makes 5-6 CF - it works great for starts/seeds, some would think burn when looking at it but it doesn't if you mix it well, Kushlan makes a nice cement mixer (6 CF model) that works to mix small amounts up better than anything else I've ever tried

PEAT MOSS 2 CF Local POT MIX 1 CF PERLITE 5 G VERMICULITE 2 G SAND 1 G DE (Silica) 4-5 C EWC 4-5 C CRAB SHELL 4-5 C THORVIN KELP 4-5 C GYPSUM 4-5 C CALPHOS 2-3 C Supplimate 2 C GUANO 1 C LIME 1.5-2 C SULFATE OF POTASH 1/2 C MYKOS 2 Oz BORON 2 TBS MANGANESE 4TBS

If you on east coast 7springs farms is a good place to buy small and large amounts of minerals etc, I have no affiliation, ship quick, package well, ship as cheap as possible and good people to work with....
Here is the mix, still looking for other micro #s.
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:59 PM #3483
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Here is the mix, still looking for other micro #s.
That is a HOT one , you could half or even quarter all the amendments and be good... after that mix is used there’s a ton left in the soil which will be recycled into one of the beds outside... most of my outdoor beds don’t need any more additives when dumping this “used” mix, pretty close to just going full mix from one of the older beds here, no amendments and just mix in peat or pro mix

I’m lucky to live where there’s tons of worms naturally in all my beds etc, I add food, plant & lawn scraps to them also and the worms love to gather there
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:01 PM #3484
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Whoops thought you meant micros when you said metals. Thanks for your response though.
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:06 PM #3485
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Nobody wants to talk about it, I get it. I don't claim to know shit, but here is one of my basic spread sheets...FWIW. We can converse about ratios, start a new soil balancing thread or do nothing.



Farm on.

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Old 12-08-2017, 10:31 PM #3486
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Guys,

There are no perfect numbers. Not sure how to put it clearer.

You have what you have and then you make a program up to get closer to where you want to go.

I have seen some real horror stories with folks taking a specific authors recommendations and then dumping on huge quantities of metals. Not good.

Depending on each person and the way they are set up to irrigate, I can put on correctives only if I can prewater to field capacity and then irrigate with fresh water afterwards. However, many don't have that ability.

Those who do have that ability to load up with water and run correctives still don't have perfect numbers afterwards. The reason is soil density and the origin of the materials being used. Much of that worm castings/compost give up more nutrients over time that is NOT being measured in the soil analysis. As well, there is the influence of what is in the water.

I have never seen a perfect analysis even when I get done. That is why we keep running analysis. If you over apply Cu, Mn, Zn or B, overshooting your objective can be very ugly.

First rule, do no harm.
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:49 AM #3487
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What would your opinion be if you were mixing soil for indoor and had the ability to lovingly mix each yard individually?
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:44 PM #3488
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Already been done. I have a 10 acre peat bog/wetlands on property and a couple thousand acres of forest surrounding... Current mix is entirely sourced on location except for aeration and amendments.

This area was huge for pickles from the 40s up until the 80s when farmers closed up shop because they couldn't control downy and powdery mildew. Testing from numerous locations shows the ground here is almost entirely void of Cu... wonder why they couldn't keep up with the fungus... Micro's take more work than any of the macros...
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:40 PM #3489
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My opinion would be find a forest and go as deep into it s possible than find a log and get buckets of the shit underneath.
A little off subject, but I was just thinking about something similar while reading people argue about who grows better flowers based on geography.

In Nor Cal, when people still had to hide. They would hike up creeks and canyons, and carve out small patch's to grow in. Then hiking up further and further making new plots. The soil was virgin to agriculture, teaming with bio life, centuries of rocks breaking down to available minerals. The flowers were out of this world, stickier, tastier overall imo, that is why the emerald triangle is still legendary today. Now we just grow a shit ton of decent to good flowers.

Using a smart pot, with brand new mixed soil, growing a huge plant in it. Then repeating every year, adding back as much as possible to attempt to keep up with the demand of the plants. It works, and I agree that balancing the soil and providing ample available nutrients is key to success. Although, at best it is us attempting to reproduce in months what mother nature creates in centuries. People have gotten really good at it, but it will never be the same, as well as the environmental costs.

Flooding a field of smart pots, then flushing in fresh fertilizer to adjust the balance is great for yield but not so great for the local habitat. The product comes out very commercial as well imo. Switching genetics, having something new helps with hiding the commercial quality, but nothing compares to some mother nature added in imo.

Not intended to troll, or start a debate or fight just my opinion on the matter. I do appreciate this thread and the knowledge and results being shared by everyone.

Mr^^
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:01 PM #3490
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Interesting I wonder if cucumbers suck up coper
Not that I have found, not out of the ordinary. I was thinking because of the heavy fungal pressure the plants pulled everything they could, but that's just a guess. I also highly doubt they ever did any micro work on the ground here... all I found were some 30 year old bags of 20-20-20 when I got here.

On a side note, we have been pulling loads of cucs, squash, melons for a couple years without PM stress. I put 20PPA Cu down on our production plots when we did the initial till. Seems to have worked well. I just want to get all the bases as close to dialed as possible. I do know that I run higher numbers for cannabis than vegetables...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedResearcher View Post
A little off subject, but I was just thinking about something similar while reading people argue about who grows better flowers based on geography.

In Nor Cal, when people still had to hide. They would hike up creeks and canyons, and carve out small patch's to grow in. Then hiking up further and further making new plots. The soil was virgin to agriculture, teaming with bio life, centuries of rocks breaking down to available minerals. The flowers were out of this world, stickier, tastier overall imo, that is why the emerald triangle is still legendary today. Now we just grow a shit ton of decent to good flowers.

Using a smart pot, with brand new mixed soil, growing a huge plant in it. Then repeating every year, adding back as much as possible to attempt to keep up with the demand of the plants. It works, and I agree that balancing the soil and providing ample available nutrients is key to success. Although, at best it is us attempting to reproduce in months what mother nature creates in centuries. People have gotten really good at it, but it will never be the same, as well as the environmental costs.

Flooding a field of smart pots, then flushing in fresh fertilizer to adjust the balance is great for yield but not so great for the local habitat. The product comes out very commercial as well imo. Switching genetics, having something new helps with hiding the commercial quality, but nothing compares to some mother nature added in imo.

Not intended to troll, or start a debate or fight just my opinion on the matter. I do appreciate this thread and the knowledge and results being shared by everyone.

Mr^^
That is the true beauty of running the correct system...

No one method is ideal. Incorporate a living soil (real soil) with a system like the one Slow advocates ( high Ca, P and CEC base swings), all calculated with math, chemistry and experience...

Once the nutrition is in balance the natural system can finally do its magic... Don't let yourself get trapped into a one approach system...

Slow isn't talking about flooding a field of smart pots... He is a farmer, in the ground, on large acreage. His methods are spot on for large scale soil correction... The end user is required to figure out what he is accomplishing and then how to make that happen on what they have in front of them...

Farming acres or farming square feet, it is still farming.

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