I used their Peter's All Purpose and Bloom Booster when I used to grow in soil in pots. Wouldn't do it again (feeding soil in pots indoors). Coir with Jack's Hydro + CalNit is superior in every way, that I can see.
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Premium nutrients - Real deal or hype???
- Thread starter chomsky
- Start date
I think double triple og uses the bloom booster, he's quite helpful. He will most likely give you the info you seek.
Best bud I ever grew, by some margin, was Nevilles Haze, 2003, grown in soil, in pots, indoors. They liked the dry conditions. They would suck the pots dry every couple of days, took loads of feeding without any burn or residue in the finished product. I guess it depends where you live.
chomsky
Member
I pretty much only use canna for a few years now less a few experiments with other nutes. Canna ia definitely not hype... ITS AWESOME, JUST SOOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE....
Absolem
Active member
I think Canna makes really good clean products. I use their coco coir as the base for my growing medium. Canna has designed a system for the grower which gives good results.
They supply the grower with all the advantages needed. Growing in their coco you start off right away with a nice clean charged coir. Their nutrient solutions are tailored to meet the coco's needs. Canna doesn't want it's users adding perlite because you reduce the cec exchange and the coir's ability to release potassium at a set rate. The Cannazym helps correct over watering most often by beginners and their weak root system. Next is the Boost. It has some sugars and amino acids in it which are good for the plants. The main active ingredient is triacontanol. Triacontanol can be found on ebay cheap. These products offer the grower a good system. Tria has been tested on plants since the late 70's. Only in the cannabis industry is this a new and unheard of product.
The HYPE. Canna or other high priced nutes somehow use special plant "Chelates" with such purity that is not found in other fertilizers.
The Truth. Micro-nutrients have been chelated for over 60 years. A chelate is like a force field around micro-nutrients. It does two things. Keeps the micro in suspension when in the stock solution and it allows the plant to take the nutrients up easily. A company bragging about their "chelates" is like a company bragging they put fast acting nitrogen in their fertilizer to make the plant green. If you didn't put chelates in fertilizer bottles you would end up with a pile of muck in your solution jugs. Canna and House and Garden both use "Dissolvine" chelated micro-nutrients. Check them out. Anybody can buy them.
https://www.akzonobel.com/dissolvin...olvine Product Guide EN 2015_tcm108-37894.pdf
Canna and House and Garden both use Yara as their source for calcium and nitrogen. Anybody can buy those too.
http://www.yara.us/agriculture/products/
Does Canna or any other high cost fertlizer contain special "chelates" only they have access to? NO.
Do people really believe Canna doesn't over hype it's products...............I guess everybody is laughing at this.
Does Canna or any other expensive nute give quality above all other fertilizers? NO.
Growers that impress me can go into the grow store and grab any fertilizer brand off the shelf and make it work through understanding plant nutrition.
The author of post #5/6 in this thread had it right. He's in the advanced section talking about what is in nutrient solutions at the "slownickel lounge". How the chemicals in those work. Ratios you should run. Looking at soil tests. And here we are on this thread unable to get beyond a label on a bottle.
8 pages in and NOT ONE PERSON ever said Canna didn't work. They simply said it was "HYPE". Here's the definition for "hype".
NOUN
mass noun
informal
1Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.
‘his first album hit the stores amid a storm of hype’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1count noun A deception carried out for the sake of publicity.
‘is his comeback a hype?’
More example sentences
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
informal
Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.
‘an industry quick to hype its products’
‘they were hyping up a new anti-poverty idea’
Sounds like Canna's advertising too me.
The truth is Canna works no better or worse than other brands. Does Canna hype it's products beyond it's abilities? YES
They supply the grower with all the advantages needed. Growing in their coco you start off right away with a nice clean charged coir. Their nutrient solutions are tailored to meet the coco's needs. Canna doesn't want it's users adding perlite because you reduce the cec exchange and the coir's ability to release potassium at a set rate. The Cannazym helps correct over watering most often by beginners and their weak root system. Next is the Boost. It has some sugars and amino acids in it which are good for the plants. The main active ingredient is triacontanol. Triacontanol can be found on ebay cheap. These products offer the grower a good system. Tria has been tested on plants since the late 70's. Only in the cannabis industry is this a new and unheard of product.
The HYPE. Canna or other high priced nutes somehow use special plant "Chelates" with such purity that is not found in other fertilizers.
The Truth. Micro-nutrients have been chelated for over 60 years. A chelate is like a force field around micro-nutrients. It does two things. Keeps the micro in suspension when in the stock solution and it allows the plant to take the nutrients up easily. A company bragging about their "chelates" is like a company bragging they put fast acting nitrogen in their fertilizer to make the plant green. If you didn't put chelates in fertilizer bottles you would end up with a pile of muck in your solution jugs. Canna and House and Garden both use "Dissolvine" chelated micro-nutrients. Check them out. Anybody can buy them.
https://www.akzonobel.com/dissolvin...olvine Product Guide EN 2015_tcm108-37894.pdf
Canna and House and Garden both use Yara as their source for calcium and nitrogen. Anybody can buy those too.
http://www.yara.us/agriculture/products/
Does Canna or any other high cost fertlizer contain special "chelates" only they have access to? NO.
Do people really believe Canna doesn't over hype it's products...............I guess everybody is laughing at this.
Does Canna or any other expensive nute give quality above all other fertilizers? NO.
Growers that impress me can go into the grow store and grab any fertilizer brand off the shelf and make it work through understanding plant nutrition.
The author of post #5/6 in this thread had it right. He's in the advanced section talking about what is in nutrient solutions at the "slownickel lounge". How the chemicals in those work. Ratios you should run. Looking at soil tests. And here we are on this thread unable to get beyond a label on a bottle.
8 pages in and NOT ONE PERSON ever said Canna didn't work. They simply said it was "HYPE". Here's the definition for "hype".
NOUN
mass noun
informal
1Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.
‘his first album hit the stores amid a storm of hype’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1count noun A deception carried out for the sake of publicity.
‘is his comeback a hype?’
More example sentences
VERB
[WITH OBJECT]
informal
Promote or publicize (a product or idea) intensively, often exaggerating its benefits.
‘an industry quick to hype its products’
‘they were hyping up a new anti-poverty idea’
Sounds like Canna's advertising too me.
The truth is Canna works no better or worse than other brands. Does Canna hype it's products beyond it's abilities? YES
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oti$
Active member
Start to finish..1.2 e.g. for most crosses...some a tad higher
oti$
Active member
Spaventa, I thought we were all on the same site sharing our experiences,most of us with pics. I wish I had some pics from my old handle...i had so.e sweet pics of very sexy buds grown with the full h&g line as well as about every other bottle out there. Premium nutes will grow premium bud, but so will my bargain basement dry salts. I had a lot of fun and learned a lot about plant nutrition buying all those bottles and learned a lot about cannabis. I'm glad I experienced the top shelf nutes. I'm even happier I've found Jack's. Happy growing, peacy weace
chomsky
Member
Yep I'm definitely switching to Jack's in the future. I'm still planning on throwing up your sour glue beans I think I've got one more grow to do for Karma then I'm going to sprout yours brother.
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THANKS Otis, about 2 or 3 weeks from my first indoor harvest.
Went vertical scrog, was feeding Lucas formula but I got some trees in veg and was blowing through the gallons of GH. Been on jacks in veg for a couple weeks, about a week in flower and all is looking well
mittensmitten
Member
H & G, same cut from friend who used Heavy 16. H & G noticeably better, and frostier. Grower who used Heavy admits it freely. Not Hype. I wish it was cheaper to use all the amendments. Cause they work, so I use em.
G
Guest
This is why I hang out in Organic soil and grow forums in this and other sites.
FWIW... I have "met Canna" at the Spannabis show many times and friend has visited their research facility. Lots of nice people with PhDs, no hype, no bullshit products. If you have to pay "premium prices" it is simply because it is imported.
I also use GHE, because it is really good, anything good enough for NASA to use on a space station is probably good enough for me.
Recently I had a good chat with Growth Technology's R&D guy, really interesting conversation that reinforced my trust in GT as well. He told me specifically that "All the nutrient brands on the market are within 5% of each other". He also told me that "his" new Coco nutrient would definitely out perform Canna and GHE and came up with the one reason that I would believe... It is all the normal nutes, plus some Organic magic stuff (inc Humic) that boosts it up a (significant) bit.
There are also differences between the compounds used by each manufacturer to achieve the same result, some compounds are more expensive than others, different manufacturers prioritise profit over excellence. I remember reading that good nutrient brands use real piss, lower quality nutrients use fake chemical "piss" for N.
I also use GHE, because it is really good, anything good enough for NASA to use on a space station is probably good enough for me.
Recently I had a good chat with Growth Technology's R&D guy, really interesting conversation that reinforced my trust in GT as well. He told me specifically that "All the nutrient brands on the market are within 5% of each other". He also told me that "his" new Coco nutrient would definitely out perform Canna and GHE and came up with the one reason that I would believe... It is all the normal nutes, plus some Organic magic stuff (inc Humic) that boosts it up a (significant) bit.
There are also differences between the compounds used by each manufacturer to achieve the same result, some compounds are more expensive than others, different manufacturers prioritise profit over excellence. I remember reading that good nutrient brands use real piss, lower quality nutrients use fake chemical "piss" for N.
chomsky
Member
Growth Technologies makes Ionic correct??? I trust what you have to say Chaos you always give good advice. Is that the brand thr r&d guy says out performs Canna? Ionic is a premium nute but is much more affordable than Canna. Seems interesting. I'm still leaning to Jacks for my next run but want to look at Ionic too. Hmmmm I guess my goal (like most of us) is a great easy nute that's affordable. I want to find what works really well and stick with it!!!
Yes chomsky, Growth Technologies of Ionic fame.
He specifically told me that their new coco nutrient line will outperform Canna Coco and GHE 6/9, because it had in his development tests, and that it was due to the cocktail of orgainc goodness that makes the difference.
This is not public sales pitch, it was a grower to grower chat, and he clearly knew his shit. I don't trust many people in this business, but him, yes, I had enough confidence in his words and explanations that I will be going out of my way to do a proper test of the product
chomsky
Member
Then enlighten us Absolem. Please!!!
Ionic is a one part nutrient. It will never perform like a 2 part nutrient. Some micro nutrients can't be combined in concentrated form or they become insoluble. They have to adjust the ratios and reduce the concentration I believe. It popular all the same because its cheap and easy and still produces satisfactory results. I love their Nitrozyme though... perfect for mother plants a week before yo want cuts. Clonex is a game changer if you just use 1" R/W cubes to root cuts. I have an aero and don't see a benefit now.
Absolem
Active member
Hey Chomsky. Just trying to learn like everybody else. I like all your posts on this site. Thinking of going from Canna to Jacks is pretty cool. Jacks is a little harder to run because it is not as user friendly as Canna is unless you run RO. Need to get your water tested then design the ratios around that. It's not that hard. Canna really has a system set up that if you buy all their gear it works out really well.
I had used bottled nutes for years. Did really well. Went through a lot of gallons over the years. I remember it being like like x-mas when they arrived.
Then one day I got scared. What the hell would I do if my bottles got taken away? How would I even grow? It lead me into years of research. First starting off with plant nutrition and how it works.
Check out these two pages it gives the nutrient ratio's a farmer should run on specific crops. It gives how many pounds per acre they should be harvesting and much more information.
http://www.haifa-group.com/knowledg...endation_for_the_fertilization_of_pepper.aspx
http://www.haifa-group.com/knowledg...ays_to_grow_beautiful_and_tasty_tomatoes.aspx
If you can learn to read those numbers and find out what numbers the cannabis plant likes best you will be gold. It can be achieved through knowing how to break down bottle ferts/dry ferts and add what you need to hit your numbers.
A few pages back I gave you a link to a Jr Peter's thread. About the 3rd page "Yosemite Sam" chimes in and shows the numbers to run. The numbers will change depending what the roots are in. That guy know's his stuff. I would read everything on here he has written. Also Google "Fatman DIY". He will even give you the dry salt recipe for Canna. I would read everything he wrote too.
None of bottle nutrient companies produce any of the chemicals they use. They source all of them and mix those up.
Here is that House and Garden promotional video again. Pause it at the 24 second mark and you can see on the injectors all the salts they buy from Yara.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkg...ent&view=category&layout=blog&id=38&Itemid=57
In the last few pages here I have given the companies that make the salts many of us have used in liquid fertilizer and what I now purchase in salt form.
Check out all these bags of salts for this hydroponic tomato farm. Each one of those bags can make about 50 one gallon jugs of fertilizer you buy in a grow store. Cost. About $50 a bag.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=411058&stc=1&d=1494109035
Good luck on your search. Regardless of liquid or salt just learn how to make them work for you. Cheers.
Attachments
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chomsky
Member
Nice and thanks for that post!!! Gotta admit the reason for my slightly snide response to your post is I thought you were trolling a bit.
I stand corrected.
You are totally right that Canna is easy to use and if you actually do nothing more than follow it step-by-step you will get pretty good results. I'm looking to get beyond that and save a lot of money.
I've done quite a few completely organic grows using Promix CC and aerated compost teas with pretty good results however it's so messy it's just a pain in the ass to use indoors.
I'm definitely looking forward to having a go with jacks. I saw your link to Jr. Peters thanks.
I have a little more than a month to go on my current grow (chocolope). I'll be running another Karma strain he just gave me called Karma Jack OG (cant wait). I'll be doing a report hopefully, you'll follow along!!!
Cheers
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