Premium nutrients - Real deal or hype???

chomsky said:

Vegematrix and Canna are both great but exorbitantly expensive.

Click to expand...

Its only the "Boost" that has me questioning my brand loyalty to Canna.
I use Aqua, PK13/14,Rhizotonic and Cannazyme without any doubts about their value but the Boost, I may drop. I need to do a side by side to be sure but I wonder if its really increasing quality. Its costs more than the other four put together!

I was Metrop for years but its doesn't suit the aero i run now. Now THAT stuff was good. observably denser buds on the Amino Bloom/Cal green/MR2 Compared to Canna Flores/PK.

Wont knock Canna cos it doesn't block sprayers, easy 2 part and vega is like steroids for vegging. And... did my PB Gram/Watt yield with it.

Ive never used cheap stuff. Even when I was guerrilla growing years ago I used Bat Guano and took my own soil lol

well I haven't used any of the new hyped shit..but I have use AN -sucks GH- blows Roots-ordinary but cheap ...Why spend $$$$ for $60 or less you can buy BioBizz starter kit of 1L each of grow/bloom 250ml each of root, algae, and top max. Then a 1L each of Botanicare Sweet raw $18 and cal/mag $18 total $100 for like 3 grows.

It has worked for me for a decade why change what works

Americangrower said:

It has worked for me for a decade why change what works

Click to expand...

If your happy then theres no need to fix what isn't broken - thats a valid perspective but its also natural to look for better ways to do things, find better equipment, consumables and methods to improve results.

with nutes, its all about proportions, not who manufactures the nutes...

I make a custom blend of premium chelated fertilizer salts, its cheap, and i can calculate the ppm for any given mineral nutrient or micronutrient.

With big name fert manufactures, you are really limited by preset proportions.. there is no one size fits all nutrient profile.

100% hype.

A year ago, I finally switched from premixed liquid ferts to Jacks. My bill for nutes is 10% of what it was, I have healthier plants, no pH issues whatsoever, and get better yield. I wish I had done this 30 years ago... the idea that you need special cannabis specific nutes to succeed is simply wrong.

steve52 said:

100% hype.

A year ago, I finally switched from premixed liquid ferts to Jacks. My bill for nutes is 10% of what it was, I have healthier plants, no pH issues whatsoever, and get better yield. I wish I had done this 30 years ago... the idea that you need special cannabis specific nutes to succeed is simply wrong.

Click to expand...

PH always dropping? sounds like you over fed. These nutrients need to be used more carefully - they are highly concentrated and often directly available to the plant so toxicity is easy done. It explains all your woes, including the excessive cost of using them.

Spaventa said:

PH always dropping? sounds like you over fed. These nutrients need to be used more carefully - they are highly concentrated and often directly available to the plant so toxicity is easy done. It explains all your woes, including the excessive cost of using them.

Click to expand...

I find it hard to believe one can conclude 30 yrs of person's growing experience and sum it up in two sentences.

Hype is the foundation of nutrients business plan. Running v and b. Loving it

I think my next run I am going to use the KISS method. If all I have to do is feed with Maxi Bloom from beginning to end and got the same results, that would be incredible.

Canna is great stuff I really love it but it's way too fucking expensive.

Absolem said:

I find it hard to believe one can conclude 30 yrs of person's growing experience and sum it up two sentences.

Click to expand...

You must be equally incredulous of Steve52's post where he dismisses an entire industry in LESS than two sentences! right? based purely on his own anecdotal evidence. With it he dismisses millions of people who have found great success with these nutrients. His post basically says those people bought hype and snake oil. His post really does also suggest he overfed which is the commonest mistake made with them. Sorry but it does sound like that. For the record, Ive been growing for over 20 years but Ive only had great success with these nutrients.

Spaventa said:

Its only the "Boost" that has me questioning my brand loyalty to Canna.
I use Aqua, PK13/14,Rhizotonic and Cannazyme without any doubts about their value but the Boost, I may drop. I need to do a side by side to be sure but I wonder if its really increasing quality. Its costs more than the other four put together!

I was Metrop for years but its doesn't suit the aero i run now. Now THAT stuff was good. observably denser buds on the Amino Bloom/Cal green/MR2 Compared to Canna Flores/PK.

Wont knock Canna cos it doesn't block sprayers, easy 2 part and vega is like steroids for vegging. And... did my PB Gram/Watt yield with it.

Ive never used cheap stuff. Even when I was guerrilla growing years ago I used Bat Guano and took my own soil lol

Click to expand...

I agree completely!!! Do you know why the boost is so much more expensive than the rest of the line?

chomsky said:

I agree completely!!! Do you know why the boost is so much more expensive than the rest of the line?

Click to expand...

Triacontanol. Thats the secret ingredient. Its hard to get. The other stuff in it works with it so you really need the whole recipe list and apparently its major PIA to source let alone sort out yourself.

Its genuinely works as you probably know which is why they can charge too. One guy I read about has done lots of side by sides and is mad as hell that he can't find anything to substitute it with. Harder denser buds, stronger smelling and tasting. Same experience Ive had. Metrop line was the closest thing. same increased hardness and density/weight but didn't boost the terpenes any. Boost does. I don't know.. group buy maybe?!

Spaventa said:

You must be equally incredulous of Steve52's post where he dismisses an entire industry in LESS than two sentences! right? based purely on his own anecdotal evidence. With it he dismisses millions of people who have found great success with these nutrients. His post basically says those people bought hype and snake oil. His post really does also suggest he overfed which is the commonest mistake made with them. Sorry but it does sound like that. For the record, Ive been growing for over 20 years but Ive only had great success with these nutrients.

Click to expand...

I've suffered from migraine headaches my whole life. The only over the counter medication to get rid of them is "Excedrin Extra Strength". Excedrin started to package another medication called "Excedrin Migraine". The only difference between the two is the package. Each contain the exact SAME ingredients and they charge 10% for more for the "Migraine" kind.

What does this have to do with plant nutrients? Simple. Just like the chemicals in Excedrin plant nutrition contains chemicals too. These chemicals can be tested and analyzed. If we had a bottle of Motrin, Tylenol, and Excedrin then emptied them into new bottles with NO labels and sent them off to a Medical research lab to run tests/research. The FIRST thing they would do is to take a pill from each bottle and test to see what it is. Once they found out the pills were nothing more than common over the counter medication no studies would be needed because there is enough research to conclude how those medications would work.

The same is with plant nutrients. I can take a bottle of Premium Nutrients and send them in for lab analysis. Since I haven't done that we will have some fun and go with the Premium Nutrients guaranteed minimum analysis.

Here is the Oregon Department of Agricultural link where I found the guaranteed analysis on the Premium Nutrients.
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_metal/hitlist.lasso

Here are the NPK values for Premium Nutrients the elemental ppms that should be contained in the bottles.

Premium Nutrients Coco
Coco Grow A Coco Grow B
N-3.2..............0
P -0.............. 2.1
K-0................. 4.7
CA -3.4............ 0
MG-.8............... 0
S-0.................. 1

If we add these two together and add 12mls to a gallon like the chart says we get these elemental ppm ratio
N 101
P 29
K 124
CA 108
MG 25
S 32

Here is Premium Nutrients Coco Bloom

Bloom A Bloom B
N - 3.2 .......... .3
P - 0 .......... 2.5
K - 0 ........... 5.8
CA -3.0............. 0
MG - .8 .......... 0

If we add these together at 14mls a gallon like the feed chart says we get these for our elemental ppms.
N 129
P 40
K 178
CA 111
MG 30

Now lets look at Canna Coco. This was a test done on Canna using 8ml of A and 8mls of B to a gallon of "Steam Distilled Water"
N 116
P 40
K 56
CA 98
MG 33

Canna is way more concentrated than Premium Nutrients is.


There is nothing new in the bottles of Premium Nutrients other than the label. Just like Excedrin putting the SAME ingredients in two bottles and selling one for more the nutrient companies do the same thing. They only change the ratios ever so slightly to make people think a "new" Nutrient has hit the market.

I don't care how long people have been growing. Iv'e seen plenty of 20 plus year cannabis growers paying $250 for a gallon of "Sleazy's Super Duper Bloom Booster"


"Spaventa. Sorry but it does sound like that. For the record, Ive been growing for over 20 years but I've only had great success with these nutrients."

The above statement says it all by itself.

It's easy to dismiss companies when you know what is in the bottle.

Im talking about premium nutrients, such as Canna. Ive never heard of the brand Premium Nutrients. All i use is Canna.

As always, an uneducated consumer is easy prey. Not saying that is the situation with Canna, just sayin

Mineral salts, like many things, are available in various grades of purity, but do companies tell us which grade they use?

If, or when pre-mixed (bottled nutes), the water quality is also a major factor, as it is if mixing dry at home.

Municipalities that recycle water supplies are polluted with residues from flushed prescription drugs, providing a scary base cocktail

PetFlora said:

As always, an uneducated consumer is easy prey. Not saying that is the situation with Canna, just sayin

Mineral salts, like many things, are available in various grades of purity, but do companies tell us which grade they use?

Click to expand...

Yes, Canna make the purity of their nutrients a selling point. Ive never felt the need to verify their claims with facts and figures since they do produce quantifiable improvement to results, consistent with their claims. Nutrient availability and uptake are obviously improved with purity but simple nutrient ratios won't tell you that.

Spaventa said:

PH always dropping? sounds like you over fed. These nutrients need to be used more carefully - they are highly concentrated and often directly available to the plant so toxicity is easy done. It explains all your woes, including the excessive cost of using them.

Click to expand...

"pH always dropping"? Where did you read that? In fact, I had no "woes" related to nutrition. Over the years, I have used various brands of nutes at different concentrations, usually less than label strength--for the record, most of the cannabis specific nute companies recommend that one overuse their product. I've been doing hydroponics indoors for 30+ years... do you honestly think I don't know the basics?

But to the subject at hand... do you really think the excessive cost of grow shop liquid nutes is somehow related to overuse? No, they are enormously overpriced, because they are aimed at a market that produces a high value crop. Period. No other reason. But I had consistently great success with these products for many years, and swore by them as being worth the cost, because that's what I knew.

Boy, was I wrong. Using Jack's, Calnit, and RO, I get a mix that is spot on every time, no pH adjustment needed, no pricey additives, and I have consistently better results. Nicer buds, and my plants are healthier and sturdier. Less leaf drop, less staking required. My nute bill dropped from around $1000 per year to around $100. The stuff is dry, so no worries about premix nutes separating, and much easier handling.

But don't take my word for it, try it for yourself. Cannabis specific nutrients work just fine, but they are an unnecessary expense, as many other people have found. There are several threads here concerning Jack's and Peter's dry ferts, and the results that people get using them. That's what inspired me to try Jack's, and I haven't looked back.

steve52 said:

"pH always dropping"? Where did you read that? In fact, I had no "woes" related to nutrition.

Click to expand...

you said...

"My bill for nutes is 10% of what it was" - this hints at overfeeding.

"I have healthier plants" (with your current nutrients) says you had feeding problems.


"no pH issues whatsoever, and get better yield". (with current nutrients) tells me you had the problems before. The ph issue that connects overfeeding is ph dropping.

Good luck anyway, glad you found what works for you. Peace.

Spaventa said:

Triacontanol. Thats the secret ingredient. Its hard to get. The other stuff in it works with it so you really need the whole recipe list and apparently its major PIA to source let alone sort out yourself.

Its genuinely works as you probably know which is why they can charge too. One guy I read about has done lots of side by sides and is mad as hell that he can't find anything to substitute it with. Harder denser buds, stronger smelling and tasting. Same experience Ive had. Metrop line was the closest thing. same increased hardness and density/weight but didn't boost the terpenes any. Boost does. I don't know.. group buy maybe?!

Click to expand...

shogun sumo boost is better than cannas boost apparently and cheaper

http://www.growell.co.uk/blog/2016/10/canna-vs-shogun-sumo-battle-of-the-boosts