Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

slownickel · Nov 7, 2017

reppin2c said:
How much did Wal-Mart make last year? People want cheap. And these same people are ignorant. You should see when you show someone deps. After finally just giving up "yes it's indoor"

On a good weather year even average growers have good product. On a shit year the strong will prevail.

Yeah, Walmart made a fortune. How much money you thing their suppliers made though?

Every grower that I know was ecstatic to have signed deals with WALMART. That honeymoon may last a whole year or so until the grower realized that they aren't making any money....

jidoka · Nov 7, 2017

lets see these weekly soil analysis

EasyGoing · Nov 7, 2017

So, I am working with a trim crew. They do lots of work in Calavaras, working for some real pros in the industry. Head guy told me my product is better than 75% of the greenhouse grown meds he is seeing, and better than all the outs. My full season was outdoor only. Starting to feel pretty froggy about this season, glad I took the leap.

Dawn Patrol · Nov 8, 2017

jidoka said:
I find if you overdo K...bottom leaf more than 2 times top...you get mites period.

So is the nutrient inbalance what attracts the pests? I've never really tried to "push" K in flower and had some extra plants in flower so I gave them some extra soluble kelp for a couple feedings to see what would happen.

Plants not getting this regimen are just fine, the test plants show slightly larger bud growth but are crawling with aphids and spider mites.

slownickel · Nov 8, 2017

Dawn Patrol said:
So is the nutrient inbalance what attracts the pests? I've never really tried to "push" K in flower and had some extra plants in flower so I gave them some extra soluble kelp for a couple feedings to see what would happen.

Plants not getting this regimen are just fine, the test plants show slightly larger bud growth but are crawling with aphids and spider mites.

Yes Dawn, imbalance can cause all kinds of problems.

There is a K/Mn ratio. Without enough Mn, K uptake is a problem. Without Mn, you cannot convert simple sugars to complex ones. Bugs love simple sugars, bugs can't deal with complex sugars.

So simple observations are just that, observations, without understanding the physiology of the plant, at best, you are guessing to cause and affect.

So pushing the production of simple sugars just makes the plant a insect magnet.

This is also why certain varieties are so difficult to deal with, they produce so much more sugar and it stays in simple sugar form due to the lack of Mn and they become insect beacons.

Saw a tangie in the middle of a very clean operation. It had every bug you could find. Everything around it was clean.

jidoka · Nov 8, 2017

Dawn Patrol said:
So is the nutrient inbalance what attracts the pests? I've never really tried to "push" K in flower and had some extra plants in flower so I gave them some extra soluble kelp for a couple feedings to see what would happen.

Plants not getting this regimen are just fine, the test plants show slightly larger bud growth but are crawling with aphids and spider mites.

Aphids are generally Na over 50 ppm in the sap with a Horiba sap meter.

Mites are either high NH4 or Nitrate that has not been converted to protein (probably not the case here since you sprayed KOH treated kelp) or K.

Slow is correct about the relationship of Mn and K. But it sounds like you did not need to add the K in the first place.

EasyGoing · Nov 10, 2017

Another season in the books. Longest year of my life. Thanks for everything SlowN!

Blue Dream top - America!

jidoka · Nov 10, 2017

Nicely Easy. Looks like America to me.

Are there any biologists lurking? If one brews something that includes gypsum and a pinch of epsom does that sulfate encourage an excess of archaebacteria?

Lightweight · Nov 12, 2017

Jidoka, or anybody else that knows, how effective is the uptake of potassium silicate for foliar feeding? I remember Jidoka saying potassium sulfate didn't seem to get absorbed very well for foliar feeding, but I don't remember anybody mentioning how effective ‎K2O3Si is.

growingcrazy · Nov 12, 2017

jidoka said:
Nicely Easy. Looks like America to me.

Are there any biologists lurking? If one brews something that includes gypsum and a pinch of epsom does that sulfate encourage an excess of archaebacteria?

How is the brewer working on getting gypsum into solution? How long are you brewing for?

Easy, Nice BD :tiphat:

slownickel · Nov 12, 2017

jidoka said:
Slow is correct about the relationship of Mn and K. But it sounds like you did not need to add the K in the first place.

What makes you say he didn't need the K in the first place? You have no data to support that statement.

slownickel · Nov 12, 2017

Lightweight said:
Jidoka, or anybody else that knows, how effective is the uptake of potassium silicate for foliar feeding? I remember Jidoka saying potassium sulfate didn't seem to get absorbed very well for foliar feeding, but I don't remember anybody mentioning how effective ‎K2O3Si is.

LW,

You need to figure out when that post was. His K comments have gone to can't get enough to realizing that he was drowning in it and it was his worst problem.... LMAO

Potassium sulfate is extremely available foliarly. Regardless of what the boy geniuses say.

jidoka · Nov 12, 2017

Lightweight said:
Jidoka, or anybody else that knows, how effective is the uptake of potassium silicate for foliar feeding? I remember Jidoka saying potassium sulfate didn't seem to get absorbed very well for foliar feeding, but I don't remember anybody mentioning how effective ýK2O3Si is.

I don't believe the silica is taken up by foliar so I am not a fan of ksil.

I think kacetate produces the fastest sap response. Albion makes a K acetate. I don't like using sulfate when I am using quite a bit of gypsum cause I don't want to double up on sulfate

jidoka · Nov 12, 2017

growingcrazy said:
How is the brewer working on getting gypsum into solution? How long are you brewing for?

Easy, Nice BD

Crazy...I am trying to make my top dress biotic. I would use soluble gyp so that isn't the problem. I just don't want to get a crazy imbalance in my bacteria.

I tend to shoot for brews with decent fungal development so 48 hrs mostly

jidoka · Nov 12, 2017

slownickel said:
What makes you say he didn't need the K in the first place? You have no data to support that statement.

The mite response.

Lightweight · Nov 12, 2017

Thanks for your responses slownickel and jidoka. I may have misquoted jidoka in saying K2SO4 isn't taken up very well via foliar feeding. Maybe jidoka was saying the sap response wasn't as fast as CH3CO2K. It was awhile back so I wouldn't trust my memory to be verbatim on that post.

I was mostly just asking for the reason of using K2O3Si as a pH adjuster for foliar sprays if the potassium isn't very available. That doesn't sound like it's the case though.

Anybody ever use sodium hydroxide as a pH adjuster? I know that probably sounds horrible, but I've use it a couple times and didn't see any ill effects and you don't need hardly any. I actually diluted about half a tablespoon of NaOH to a half gallon of water (so it already reacted with the water) and it didn't take much of that solution to bring up the pH of a pretty acidic foliar spray. Usually I don't worry about the pH of foliar sprays too much unless it's really acidic, like 5 or lower which isn't very often so this question is mostly out of curiosity. I just don't want them to be alkaline because I don't think they get absorbed as well and I use citric acid to drop the pH if needed for alkaline solutions.

jidoka · Nov 12, 2017

KOH is fine for pH. It gets a big response with damn little K. But i doubt your organic certified will be amused

Edit...with naoh if you drive na over 50 in the sap the aphids come...so that one, it depends

Lightweight · Nov 12, 2017

jidoka said:
KOH is fine for pH. It gets a big response with damn little K. But i doubt your organic certified will be amused

Edit...with naoh if you drive na over 50 in the sap the aphids come...so that one, it depends

Thanks for the info jidoka. When the day come that we have organic certification for cannabis in Hawaii I'll work on being more creative with pH adjusters I guess. I almost never use them anyway, but it's good info for when it's needed.

reppin2c · Nov 13, 2017

Remember that time jidoka put to much K in his soil and ever since then any talk about K or meters was thrown in his face? I learned a lesson from it and I'm sure others did as well. Thanks for sharing, I'd say.

Mountain and I had a conversation before he passed about hydrogen peroxide in water for more air. I was wondering if any of you guys had done any of that?

led05 · Nov 13, 2017

reppin2c said:
Remember that time jidoka put to much K in his soil and ever since then any talk about K or meters was thrown in his face? I learned a lesson from it and I'm sure others did as well. Thanks for sharing, I'd say.

Mountain and I had a conversation before he passed about hydrogen peroxide in water for more air. I was wondering if any of you guys had done any of that?

I use h2o2 mainly in small amounts in RO water reservoirs for non chlorinated water to keep free from slime, levels that are fine for the microbes in the soil when used... I’m 100% sure it adds slightly more air too when watering..

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Chasing The Present