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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation
- Thread starter slownickel
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jackspratt61
Active member
Question rephrased...
Is it possible/recommended in container growing to match the % aeration components to the % base saturation of Mg. We've learned Mg doesn't like to leave the party!
For instance, if test results are showing 2000-2500 ppm Ca on AA 8.2 and base saturation for Ca in the range of mid 80's but Mg at 18% base saturation that would be a mix needing more aeration because of the high Mg. But how much more??
As stated I do not test my aeration. Aeration is done after making adjustments to the (in my case) 1 part peat/1 part composted bark mix.
Is there any correlation between %aeration in a mix and base saturation of elements such as Mg when using low cec adds such as perlite?
led05
Chasing The Present
"18" is that reasonable or arrogance?..., Slo, I appreciate what ur doing here but that answer makes me chuckle, farmer to farmer
if the so meant slo, then all good, I think you've been great about refraining from $$$, please continue
Wait a second! You mean to tell me that no one is going to send me a check? WTF?
This is why the numbers are so important. They have to sum to 100%. Why can't folks push out that Mg? Or Na?
Simple. You all know the answer. Not enough Ca! You can't have 85% Ca and 18% Mg guy, that is 103%. And your K? Na?
One cation pushes out another cation. Simple. Think of Ca as a weakling and Mg as a big fat guy. You are going to need a bunch of Ca to push fatso out the door. If there is not enough airspace, this job gets even tougher.
Remember that roots need more air than leaves do, remember that organic and amino acid exchange from root tips is the way that the plant picks up calcium. It is the ONLY way to pick up calcium by a root. If the environment is wet, these acids are diluted, resulting in less uptake.
So if we have a situation with a low CEC and still no air (washed out clays come to mind), even with high Ca, the soil is going to stay wet longer. This means that for the plant to pick up Ca it takes much longer as the soil stays wet longer.
If we calculate that over the life of the plant, which would be better? Have that media nearly dry out every day! Thus the plant can pick up Ca easier EVERY DAY.
Every cell in the plant has its' walls made of Ca. The plant needs to pick up Ca every day.
This is a big key to high productivity and obviously high quality.
Heading to Cali Monday! Yeehah!
I prefer a cec of 17.8 myself............
There is always one in the crowd...
If you're seeing a deficiency your missing quality and yield. Every element has a function.
I think id rather have CEC cranked and spray the K cuz it goes into the plant easy. Little heavier mix so you aren't watering every day and maybe spend some time fishing. Or the other option build it so high performance like the race car they tear the motor down every race.
I think id rather have CEC cranked and spray the K cuz it goes into the plant easy. Little heavier mix so you aren't watering every day and maybe spend some time fishing. Or the other option build it so high performance like the race car they tear the motor down every race.
Agree completely. Visual deficiencies mean you missed the boat.
I would prefer an automatic irrigation system that watered thoroughly daily, on a mix where I knew it was going to need water every day, even twice a day at the correct times, with a light irrigation first thing in the morning and heavier irrigation midday in heavy heat filling in flowers. Top dressing is also an issue so one would need micro sprinklers.
Several guys on here could be chipping in on their experiences with mixes. Especially those that write stuff like 17.8 hint hint.
Why setious sodium borate? No boric acid available?
growingcrazy
Well-known member
Slow, in your system is it possible to have something close to a water only mix? Minus additions of Ca and K? Or would you say it is completely reliant upon fertilizing through fertigation and/or topdressing on frequent intervals?
Most crops are able to use what is in the field over the season with minimal additions and finish within expected yield and quality. Cannabis seems to be different in this regard... more so using the soil, once balanced as a more or less substrate to apply large quantities of nutrition upon. Your thoughts?
Also, can you explain/show the formula for calculating the amount of K to move 1% of Ca from the base... Just can't seem to find that one anywhere online...
Most crops are able to use what is in the field over the season with minimal additions and finish within expected yield and quality. Cannabis seems to be different in this regard... more so using the soil, once balanced as a more or less substrate to apply large quantities of nutrition upon. Your thoughts?
Also, can you explain/show the formula for calculating the amount of K to move 1% of Ca from the base... Just can't seem to find that one anywhere online...
My fingers are to bug for the phone.
I ordered a bunch of fish bone meal, peripitated bone, soft rock phosphate and got all but the srp. Solubor was on there as well. Apparently the store guy is like you need this shit but not this other shit.
So now I have a lifetime supply of B lol
is boric acid organic?
https://customhydronutrients.com/optibor-tp-999-boric-acid-powder-55-bag-p-924.html
https://customhydronutrients.com/optibor-tp-999-boric-acid-powder-55-bag-p-924.html
Venger,
You sure you are reading about boric acid and not sodium borate?
How can it not be organic and then certified by OMRI for ground application for boron deficiency?
Please clarify. To my understanding boric acid is prohibited in organic agriculture for use as a soil or foliar nutrient.
For the last 35 years I have been making premium quality fruits and veggies and over time figuring out how to get better and better quality and eventually premiums for great quality and flavor.
Do you have any idea of what premium one gets for quality in producing a great pineapple, sweet potato, banana or a lime? And if it is Organic?
Any idea?
At best, a 30% premium. And that is probably even then, wishful at times.
Now, let's think about this crop. I figure there is a 400-500% premium if you know what you are doing. Greenhouse passing as indoor, can get $2300-2500 on the west coast, sometimes even more, but only for candy.
So why am I telling you this, probably you already know it... Candy sells, can't give garbage away. Gunna get crowded fast.
Don't take shortcuts.
Regarding your Ca calculation. This is going to depend greatly on how fluffy your mix really is. If you are at about half density that is one thing, if you have a heavy mix, that is something else.
The calculation goes like this.
Take your real CEC (AA@8.2 Ca) and the rest of the M3 bases to make your base distribution calculation and CEC in meq/100grams.
Take your objective of Ca (85%) minus what you have (say a calculated Ca of 60%), leaving 25% as the missing requirement (85%-60%=25%).
25% of a soil with a CEC of say 20 meq/100 grams, would be 5 meq/100 grams
One (1) meq/100grams of Ca is 200.4 ppms (conversion factor to go to ppms)
5 meq/100 grams x 200.4 ppm (for the Ca conversion factor) is 1002 ppms of Ca. Multiply 1002 by 1.8 and this would give you the lbs/acre of Ca that you need. That is a calculation for the first 6 inches of soil, assuming real soil.
Hope that was clear enough.
It is not organic because it does not meet the definition, any of the definitions.
https://www.borax.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/OMRI-Optibor-TG.pdf
https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/NOP-5034-1.pdf
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Thanks guy!
Apparently I am thinking about the wrong set of rules as to why we can't use it, it is the Europeans... prohibited for European markets.
Thanks again!
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