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Its all about the LIGHT (plant to light ratios)

ghostly

ghostly

Member
I have been growing with a small group for some time now and during this time I have seen a lot of gardens and approaches to maxiumizing harvest.

I often see people with a way too many plants per light. technically its more about watts but the point remains. To illustrate i will provide some real numbers from 4 different room with various light/plant ratios. All these rooms were set up by the same people, with nearly identical conditions. they utilized the same feeding schedule and the main difference was the # of plants per light. All rooms utilize 1000w Eye Hortilux lamps with various reflectors and carbon-dioxide. Over the course of 2 years I recorded the total yields from these rooms, because some crops had issues (mites, mold, contaminated line) it wouldnt work to average the yields. So i took the best yield fro each room over the time period. room a and be used the same light configuration, and best display the facts; its all about the light!

room 1
6 lamps/36 plants 8 lbs
room 2
10 lamps/24plants 12.5 lbs
room 3
12 lamps/ 30 plants 18 lbs
room 4
6 lamps/ 24 plants 10 lbs

we veg clones for 6 weeks (under t5's) and flower for 8 weeks.

It pains me when i see a new guy with 1 lamp and 15 plants, they always want to argue, please cut back OR get more lights. In football terms, its better to run a 5 plays perfect then running 20 plays half assed. plus in a hydro set up, you waste nutrients, crowd the room which makes it difficult to detect and deal with issues. these were lessons hard learned, and a chance for you to learn from my mistakes. hope it helps.
 
B

Bud Bug

Well its a given that more light = more product but there are too many variables to say that thats it.

For example two grows ago I went with 36 Diesel (First time I grew this strain ). Straight to 12/12 from clone (no veg 7.5 weeks start to finish) Under 1 1000W I got 14 oz dry - nothing to write home about. I was using Advanced Conni.

Next grow I used the same plants but went with 49. Straight to 12/12 from clone (no veg 7.5 weeks start to finish) Under 1 1000W I got 20 oz dry - Using FloraNova this time.

Now I'm going with 64 of the same Diesel strain. Straight to 12/12 from clone (no veg 7.5 weeks start to finish) Under 1 1000W using Botanicare. I still got about 2.5-3 weeks to go. The plants are about 5% smaller then the 49 but they're just bulking up in week 5 so its hard to say what the final weight will be.

Of course main problem is this time I'm going with straight coco and not ProMix and a different food but so far is on track.

Again too many variables when especially with strains and different systems.

For example I know people who grow 50 plants per light in a stadium using coco. They grow jammys which is a crappy strain but produces good. With 9 weeks from start to finish they get 2+ lb per light every time.
 
ghostly

ghostly

Member
no doubt variables exist, but in the rooms were doing, they are for all intent and purpose, the same. its better to have less plants and more light. i say 3 or 4 plants per 1000w lamp in the 5g bucket hydro set up is better than 6/1000w lamp.
 
R

redheadfreakin

Member
Yield from different plant numbers won't really change when the plants are grown at the right size for the number used.
Smaller plants = more plants per light.
Less plants normally means longer veg time which is less efficient.
 
B

Bud Bug

ghostly said:
no doubt variables exist, but in the rooms were doing, they are for all intent and purpose, the same. its better to have less plants and more light. i say 3 or 4 plants per 1000w lamp in the 5g bucket hydro set up is better than 6/1000w lamp.
Click to expand...

Problem with that is the time. Why would someone grow 50 lights for 14 week when they could tripple the amount of plants and finish in 8-9 weeks and get 6/7 crops in one year.
 
iSmokeTrees

iSmokeTrees

Member
you sound like a dumb ass stoner. "dude you gotta have the right amount of plants for the right amount of lights."

maybe you should do some math, post actual statistics and measurements (i.e. gpw), and formulate a hypothesis? you didn't make any argument at all in your post.
 
R

redheadfreakin

Member
iSmokeTrees said:
you sound like a dumb ass stoner.
maybe you should do some math, post actual statistics and measurements (i.e. gpw), and formulate a hypothesis? you didn't make any argument at all in your post.
Click to expand...

Great post.
Very helpful.
Wonderful contribution.
Love those stats!
Oh wait, uh, whoops.

:stfu:

iSmokeTrees, why troll??
 
ancientmariner

ancientmariner

Member
ghostly: I have tried many different configurations over the years, from cramming 36 plants in 1-gal containers in a 4x4 F&D table, to hand-watering former moms in 7-gal buckets of dirt, 2 per 1k light. No matter which method I have employed, over several years I have averaged slightly under one pound per light. (No CO2)

Recently I picked up a dozen WaterFarms and a CO2 generator in a trade. Prior to connecting the CO2, I had vegged for 3-5 weeks in 4" RW cubes under a 750w hybrid bulb; when roots came out the bottom of one cube I'd stack it atop another in an F&D table before moving them into the WFs and surrounding with Hydroton. They appear to be doing well; I'm guesstimating I'll yield about 2.5-3 oz per unit with 4 units under a 600w HPS. (Much variation from plant to plant.)

For my next batch I am vegging longer, in 4" RW stacked atop a 3"x6" RW block. I have an assortment of 12 girls ready to go.

My question: In the same trade I also acquired 30 or so 5-gal buckets with lids. Can you share any details of your technique so that perhaps I could do a side-by-side comparison using, say, 6 WFs and 6 5-gal buckets, each group under a 1k light? (I have enough space and gear that I could easily upgrade to 3 lights with 4 per light later in the cycle if they start to crowd each other.)

When you say your system is "hydro," do you mean deep-water culture or something else? If DWC, do you recirculate and do you use a chiller?

It took me a long time to make the leap of faith from dozens of small plants to a handful of big ones. But I have a friend and fellow medical card-holder who will veg up to a dozen at a time as long as necessary for me, so there's no reason not to take the plunge. With his help, I can still harvest 6 crops per year no matter the system.

"Dumb ass stoner" or not, I look forward to your reply. (Kidding, obviously, about the dumb ass part.)
 
00420

00420

full time daddy
Veteran
room 1
6 lamps/36 plants 8 lbs
6 plants per k @ 1.33 per lite

room 2
10 lamps/24plants 12.5 lbs
2.4 plants per k @ 1.25 per lite

room 3
12 lamps/ 30 plants 18 lbs
2.5 plants per 1k @ 1.5

room 4
6 lamps/ 24 plants 10 lbs
4 plants per lite @ 1.6
Click to expand...

most ppl i know veg 2 weeks, 16 plants a light and hit 1.5-1.75 some are in the upper 1.75-2.0 i have wraped 45 clone's around a 1k and done very well..crowded suck's but there is a point where you just dont have as much as you could.....
 
M

milehimedi

Ghostly- not so sure about the comparisons. Too many variable exist to make a definitive conclusion. I have seen scrog grows with up to 25 plants/1k that consistently yield 2.5-3 lbs/light. I have also seen setups with as little as 9 plants under a 1k yield up to 2 lbs/light. The fact is, all different methods can yield big numbers, so to each his own
 
NiteTiger

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
redheadfreakin said:
Another guy to come in and offer nothing but trolling.
At least I posted something on topic, but maybe you missed that.
I don't know why you and iSmokeTrees find it necessary to troll the thread.
Click to expand...

Let's review:

He did actually comment relevantly on the OP, in an asinine manner, yes, but he was indeed posting on topic.

You jump in running your mouth about stats and post quality, when your stats suck ass, you have shit post count, and your post I quoted had absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

The irony is high, isn't it?

So, yeah, I just came through the door you opened. If you're going to flame someone, at least try not to make yourself look terribly ridiculous when you do it.

And don't cry when that foolishness gets you flamed right back.
 
R

redheadfreakin

Member
milehimedi said:
Ghostly- not so sure about the comparisons. Too many variable exist to make a definitive conclusion. I have seen scrog grows with up to 25 plants/1k that consistently yield 2.5-3 lbs/light. I have also seen setups with as little as 9 plants under a 1k yield up to 2 lbs/light. The fact is, all different methods can yield big numbers, so to each his own
Click to expand...

So true.
Many variables, including strain and pruning.
I have settled in around 25 per 1k.
Here is a night shot of some AK47 just underway, flanked on either side by Trainwreck:

 
ghostly

ghostly

Member
I confess, i may be, at times, a lazy ass stoner (see author Mel Levine's "the myth of lazyness")
but at least Im not a troll!

ancient-i will post some pix of the op. Its a recirculating drip set up, 5 gallon black buckets with a large enuff basket to hold a bit of hydroton and and a hugo (6" rw cube) i drill a whole near the bottom of each bucket (7/8" bit) which i fit with a grommet, and a line running back to the res. there are 3 buckets per 1/2" return line. (too many buckets per line will lead to poor return and possible overflows) (so my res has 1 line per 3 buckets) I then snake a single 1/2 "line with and end clip and use 1/8 line to create the run up to each bucket as the drip. make sense? give a few days and i will put upo some serious pix.

for most everyone else, no doubt the scrog method, and other pruning techniques are hugely important but the basic principle is true. if you have a single 1000w lamp, you will only yield up to a pound or two (take your pick) and its much better quality, less work and a better idea to spread that over say 3 or 4 plants as opposed to 25. the differnce is huge colas or popcorn.
 
ancientmariner

ancientmariner

Member
Thanks ghostly. I think I have a good idea of what you're doing but look forward to seeing pics when you post them.

A few brief questions:

1) 6 weeks under only T5s? Is that enough veg time and/or powerful enough light? Heck, I have vegged for 6 weeks under almost 1k, and I have never gotten anywhere close to the end results you posted.

2) So the 1/2" hose is sufficient drainage given the 1/8" feeder hose? I was worried that I might need to run 3/4 or 1".

3) When you say "rez", do you also have a controller bucket, or is that what you mean by "rez"?

4) Lastly, do you use a chiller? If so, do you connect it directly to rez, or to controller bucket, or in-line somehow with the 1/2" hose?

Thanks for the tips.
 
ancientmariner

ancientmariner

Member
Sorry, scratch #4. If you're just using drip you don't need a chiller. But am I correct in assuming that the roots just hang down from the lid with the Hugo in it, and the drip feed is enough to keep the roots moist inside the bucket? And if so, is it a constant drip during lights-on, or intermittent, or...?
 
iSmokeTrees

iSmokeTrees

Member
redheadfreakin said:
Great post.
Very helpful.
Wonderful contribution.
Love those stats!
Oh wait, uh, whoops.

:stfu:

iSmokeTrees, why troll??
Click to expand...


Go take a statistics class. A sample base of 1 grow is not an adequate pool size to formulate any hypothesis. You will learn that N, your sample size, has to be larger than 30 to be able to apply central limit theorem and come within 95% certainty of your hypothesis.

So no, looking at the best grow from each room will not work. It will in fact teach you absolutely nothing.

He didn't even tell us what the correct number of plants to lights is. He says "guys it's all about plants to lights ratio" and then doesn't even say what the correct ratio is!!!!!

Yes he sounds like a dumb ass stoner!
 
M

milehimedi

ghostly said:
I confess, i may be, at times, a lazy ass stoner (see author Mel Levine's "the myth of lazyness")
but at least Im not a troll!

ancient-i will post some pix of the op. Its a recirculating drip set up, 5 gallon black buckets with a large enuff basket to hold a bit of hydroton and and a hugo (6" rw cube) i drill a whole near the bottom of each bucket (7/8" bit) which i fit with a grommet, and a line running back to the res. there are 3 buckets per 1/2" return line. (too many buckets per line will lead to poor return and possible overflows) (so my res has 1 line per 3 buckets) I then snake a single 1/2 "line with and end clip and use 1/8 line to create the run up to each bucket as the drip. make sense? give a few days and i will put upo some serious pix.

for most everyone else, no doubt the scrog method, and other pruning techniques are hugely important but the basic principle is true. if you have a single 1000w lamp, you will only yield up to a pound or two (take your pick) and its much better quality, less work and a better idea to spread that over say 3 or 4 plants as opposed to 25. the differnce is huge colas or popcorn.
Click to expand...

I don't even know where to start with this..... what "basic principle" is true?

Scrogs have been known to yield 2+ lbs/k, anything above two being SOLID production.

How are your yields, Ghostly? If all that light wasn't hitting the ground I bet they would be higher.

Lazy.

Scrogs, as they are typically bumper strains, will produce big nugs
 
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