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NFL 2014
- Thread starter whadeezlrg
- Start date
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Unless Peyton plays well or wins his 2nd SB I still think he is only the 6th or 7th best QB of all time when you bring into consideration post season. I obviously think Peyton is an all time great just not the greatest, if he gets #2 though it'll cement him closer to that #1 spot if he has another awful playoffs or shit show performance in the SB again there is no chance he stays in the argument of #1 because the list will than go....To me Joe Montana is the best QB of all time with Brady close behind, these guys always played best in the biggest spots and were and are such clutch players which Peyton has not been his whole career. When is comes to being an all time great being clutch and performing in the post-season is where you make and break careers nowadays and Peyton certainly doesn't fall into the class of all time elite "clutch" or "big game" QB's. You want to call him the most elite regular season QB of all time, go right ahead no one can argue that but a career includes more than just regular season stats.
1. Joe Montana
2. Tom Brady
3. Johnny U
4. Terry Bradshaw
5. Otto graham
6. Rodger Staubach (lost 4 years due to the service!)
7. Peyton Manning
1. Joe Montana
2. Tom Brady
3. Johnny U
4. Terry Bradshaw
5. Otto graham
6. Rodger Staubach (lost 4 years due to the service!)
7. Peyton Manning
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
I look at it a bit differently.
Put Peyton manning on any of those teams and he might very well have 5 super bowl wins.
They used to blame the Colts for PM not doing better in Indianapolis. Now they're blaming the Broncos. Seeing a pattern here.
MM, we can assume that but we'll never know. Also the thing about Manning compared to Brady which I don't think Brady gets enough credit for is the fact he has had more success than any of these guys with much less. What HOF offense weapons has Brady had in his career other than Moss for those few years???? Gronk if he can sustain his health maybe....Think of the weapons Peyton has had over the years Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Marshall faulk early in his career, Ed james boaderline HOF RB. Now look at his team now, D. Thomas, J.Thomas, etc......The Pats haven't had an offensive weapon like anyone those guys in pretty much ever and yet Brady has still won more than Peyton.
Also I know this is old school, but Otto Graham went to 10 titles games in 10 years and won 7 of them. I think we forget about about the older timers too much and forget these guys were doing Peyton like things for their time and in a sense are in my opinion "greater" QB's because of not only their regular season but post-season stats as well. Its sorta of like baseball in a sense, we wouldn't think any less of Ted Willams, Joe Dimaggio, etc.. do we?
Playing at the Level Manning is after neck surgery is pretty insane
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
Yeah, who was Austin colley, Jacob tammey, dallas clark, etc.... the list goes on forever, before or after peyton manning. that's pretty good proof he makes people better.
Bill Bellicheck making decisions for that team might be quite an advantage over having select individuals. I think a lot of people will agree with me on that.
No doubt about it Peyton has made peoples careers I just feel he's had better weapons around him his entire career than Brady has. Belicheck is a HOF coach and has def been an advantage to Brady in his career. Honestly Peyton's coaches at times have almost hurt him, caldwell/polian that year not letting them go for 16-0, then when they took out the starters at half against the jets only to lose that game. That allowed the jets into the playoffs that year and guess who Peyton lost to?
When I think greatness I def think of peyton manning I just can't call him the greatest of all time, his poor decisions and costly turnovers repeatedly in the playoffs, losing playoff record, along with a losing record in the super bowl separate him from the other players on my list, and that's my main reason I don't think he's #1.
When I think greatness I def think of peyton manning I just can't call him the greatest of all time, his poor decisions and costly turnovers repeatedly in the playoffs, losing playoff record, along with a losing record in the super bowl separate him from the other players on my list, and that's my main reason I don't think he's #1.
Most of those wins came in a b'league, the All-America Football Conference. Also, the athletes playing today are MUCH better than the old timers. Bigger, stronger, faster. The game itself is much faster. He played 5 years in the NFL, and had superior talent around him, including Lou Groza, maybe the best kicker ever, and Marion Motley, as well as HOF coach Paul Brown. He lost 3 consecutive championship games from 51-53. He was a great QB for his day, but could he even play in today's NFL, weighing 196 pounds, and working against much better, faster defenses? No doubt he was the best of his era, but it's a totally different ballgame today. I don't believe you can compare players from the 40s-50s to today's players. They were much smaller and slower. It's a different game now.
Agreed players are bigger, stronger, and faster we can say this in every major sport but to me football is football, wins are wins, and the old timers deserve to be thrown into the mix especially ones who dominated like Graham. Just because Babe Ruth played during an era with no black players and much smaller players do we not consider him still an all time great? Some might even argue the greatest of all time. Otto Graham went to 10 straight title game which no one has ever done, he won 7 of those including going out on top by winning his last 2 in 54 and 55. To be able to perform and come out on top even back in those days was an accomplishment, his dominance is something that no other football player has been able to replicate and win 7 out of 10 of the biggest games you'll ever play is crazy to think about. Not to mention that today's QB's have it so easy, you can sneeze on one and get a roughing the passer call. Back in the old days QB's were maybe not faster, stronger, or bigger but they were a hell of a lot more tougher and didn't have the game be customized for them year after year.
They didn't play near as many games, also. And not nearly as many teams, so easier to get to the title game.
Babe Ruth was unique. He hit 60 home runs when entire teams weren't hitting that many. Also, he was a 20 game winner as a pitcher. He was a freak of nature, who didn't take care of himself. He drank and partied to excess, but his natural ability was unprecedented.
Babe Ruth was unique. He hit 60 home runs when entire teams weren't hitting that many. Also, he was a 20 game winner as a pitcher. He was a freak of nature, who didn't take care of himself. He drank and partied to excess, but his natural ability was unprecedented.
I understand what you mean by less teams so easier to get to the title game, but still when in any part of football history has 1 team with the same QB go to 10 straight championship games and win 7? Even though it was a different time what other QB in history has dominated like that in a 10 year span? I am not trying to compared Ruth to Graham by any means but trying to point out that just because their old timers doesn't take away from any of their greatness IMHO.
The All-America Football Conference where he played most of his career, had only 8 teams, so you had a 1 in 4 chance of playing in the championship game, all things being equal.
How about Jim Thorpe, as long as we're talking old timers? He played pro baseball, football, and won multiple gold medals @ the Olympics in pentathlon and decathlon, making him the world's greatest athlete. His gold medals were taken back after it was found out he had played professional baseball. Not a QB, though.
How about Jim Thorpe, as long as we're talking old timers? He played pro baseball, football, and won multiple gold medals @ the Olympics in pentathlon and decathlon, making him the world's greatest athlete. His gold medals were taken back after it was found out he had played professional baseball. Not a QB, though.
Some people do consider Otto Graham the greatest QB of all time. I don't know if I can agree with that though. He only played 6 years in the NFL. His career completion percentage is only 55%.
He only won 3 NFL championships and only 2 in a row. Four championships were for AAFC titles not the NFL which did exist at the time.
Interestingly he also had an NBL (pre NBA) championship in 1946 and then the same year AAFC championship.
Otto Graham is more like Ralph Kiner than Babe Ruth. Kiner played MLB for 10 years and won 7 HR titles. He started his career winning 7 HR titles in a row.
He only won 3 NFL championships and only 2 in a row. Four championships were for AAFC titles not the NFL which did exist at the time.
Interestingly he also had an NBL (pre NBA) championship in 1946 and then the same year AAFC championship.
Otto Graham is more like Ralph Kiner than Babe Ruth. Kiner played MLB for 10 years and won 7 HR titles. He started his career winning 7 HR titles in a row.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
I think its really hard to judge a player if u didn't see him play against the people of his time. Its too hard to put it into context. It only makes sense that we can compare and rate what we know and have seen with our own eyes.
Meanwhile, I am working on picks for tomorrow. I'm sure everyone likes the Colts right off the bat. They are 3.5 over Pittsburgh. I am on them. Also like the Lions this week over Atlanta, which is on a losing streak. This game starts at 9:30 A.M., so I will miss it. Might make second half.
Like the Ravens, who have been hot, and have been very good to me. Better QB. This is a game where I would rather lay the odds, -130, then the points, -2.5 @-110. It makes no sense laying the points.
Love the Packers, as Aaron Rodgers is on point, and they are playing blitz happy New Orleans. Rodgers is the master at beating the blitz. Packers are getting 3 points from the Saints who can be tough @ home, but Packers have superior talent and are playing well.
Like the Seahawks over the Panthers, -5. Seahawks losing 3 in a row? I doubt it.
Like Miami over Jacksonville. Tannahill is playing well, and Jacksonville is bad.
Thoughts?
Note: If you're betting parlays, consider betting the odds rather than giving points, if you're betting favorites. No points to give, but you will have to lay higher odds. Example this week: Baltimore Ravens have been playing very well. They have not let me down yet. You can give 2.5 points, and lay -110, or you can give no points and lay -130. Only a $2 difference on a $10 bet, without giving up points. In other words, you can lay $11 to win $10, but you must win by 3. Or, you can lay $13 to win $10, without giving up any points! This is a much better bet, especially in parlays, and especially if they win by a point or two, which you would lose if you gave the points, but win if you laid the odds! Those 2.5 points could be the difference between winning or losing a parlay, so well worth paying a small fee not to give them.
Like the Ravens, who have been hot, and have been very good to me. Better QB. This is a game where I would rather lay the odds, -130, then the points, -2.5 @-110. It makes no sense laying the points.
Love the Packers, as Aaron Rodgers is on point, and they are playing blitz happy New Orleans. Rodgers is the master at beating the blitz. Packers are getting 3 points from the Saints who can be tough @ home, but Packers have superior talent and are playing well.
Like the Seahawks over the Panthers, -5. Seahawks losing 3 in a row? I doubt it.
Like Miami over Jacksonville. Tannahill is playing well, and Jacksonville is bad.
Thoughts?
Note: If you're betting parlays, consider betting the odds rather than giving points, if you're betting favorites. No points to give, but you will have to lay higher odds. Example this week: Baltimore Ravens have been playing very well. They have not let me down yet. You can give 2.5 points, and lay -110, or you can give no points and lay -130. Only a $2 difference on a $10 bet, without giving up points. In other words, you can lay $11 to win $10, but you must win by 3. Or, you can lay $13 to win $10, without giving up any points! This is a much better bet, especially in parlays, and especially if they win by a point or two, which you would lose if you gave the points, but win if you laid the odds! Those 2.5 points could be the difference between winning or losing a parlay, so well worth paying a small fee not to give them.
Miraculous Meds
Well-known member
I like all ur picks, I think I took them all as well.
9 am game? Is it over seas? Or are u?
Very hard, if not impossible, to compare today's athletes to those of yesteryear.
Football was a different game then.
Imagine Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts or Dan Marino's numbers if they played in today's NFL.
QB's are babied, and real defense isn't allowed any more.
Imagine Jim Brown with today's training techniques, steroids and nutrition.
Give him the luxury of year round training. Holy SHINTO!
How would today's athletes enjoy having to work a side job, when not playing, work a full time job in the off season. How many games were lost to wars back in the day, TED WILLIAMS, JOE DIMAGGIO etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyhoo. Getting ready for the Lions v Falcons in London.....
at 9 AM!!!!
Lets go Lions!!!!!!
Football was a different game then.
Imagine Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts or Dan Marino's numbers if they played in today's NFL.
QB's are babied, and real defense isn't allowed any more.
Imagine Jim Brown with today's training techniques, steroids and nutrition.
Give him the luxury of year round training. Holy SHINTO!
How would today's athletes enjoy having to work a side job, when not playing, work a full time job in the off season. How many games were lost to wars back in the day, TED WILLIAMS, JOE DIMAGGIO etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyhoo. Getting ready for the Lions v Falcons in London.....
at 9 AM!!!!
Lets go Lions!!!!!!
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