Hey ICMag! We are Lush LED Lighting!!!

[Lush Lighting]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you had a room with 4,000 watts of LED panels, I think you would still need to cool the room. I'd like to see comparisons with how many watts a 4,000 watt HPS grow would use compared to a 4,000 watt LED grow.[/FONT]
Then they say that this 650 watt light is better than 1,000 watt HPS but if you look in Lush Lightings thread, they talk about the yield being less than 2 pounds but with a 1,000 watt HPS you're getting 2+ pounds. Why not compare 650 watt LED light to a 600 HPS light and do a easy side by side in 2 4'x4' tents to end this once and for all. If the lights are so great, why doesn't Lush Lighting have pictures of these types of tests? Surely a company would run these types of tests which would also sell many lights if there claims were right. Every test that I've seen comparing LED to HPS was done very poorly with light contamination. I got plenty of HPS lights and would easily do a side by side in 2 x 4x4 rooms if given the opportunity. I'm not knocking this company or LED technology. Again I hope these lights are the real deal. I'd love to have a room filled with LED's if they were that good.

Hi, Snype,
I agree with you that 4000w of LED would totally need some venting and AC. The light is still intense. But the units themselves stay cool to the touch. As for 4000w of HPS and 4000w of LED in the same room, you wouldn't need 4000w of LED to get the same yield. Our 435w unit can compare to 1000w of HPS. So, at 4000w of HPS, you'd only need 1740w of LED to get the same yield and save energy. You'd need 9.2 Dominator 2x LED lights to make up 4000w. Now, the Dominator 2xxl is the 650w light, which is 50% more light (2 more rows) so it's comparable about 1200w of HPS realistically. So, our 650w LED is not going to be fair to test against a 600w HPS if it's designed to compete with the 1000w HPS. I'll have to check if we've had a good test grow done like that. We have quite a few tests and grow journals done, just not on here. Now that we're opening the Lush retail store by Oct. 29, we'll have room to take videos and show tests, etc. We're getting there

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Maybe a silly question but im wondering if u can touch a led like a t5. I know u shouldn't touch a hps. lol

How much distance from the top of the canopy to the bulbs? In the two biggest models? And what are the two biggest models?

thanks,

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Do u care to share what some of the top yields were when using the 650w led? If it could compare to the yields I get off of 600w hps id be very interested.

Im also curious as to what u guys think the top people are yielding with 600w hps and 1000w hps.

 

[JointOperation]

iuno like i said multiple times now.. respectable grower .. that can duplicate the exact same conditions in 2 rooms. 1 with LED . one with hps.. same strain. same nutes same everything.

and maybe people might bite.. but in reality..

when its going to cost someone 20grand to setup the same amount of lights as a 5grand hps room.. and then the hps ballasts last forever . and bulbs are cheap. compared to a 1500$ light..

and then in reality.. wen u setup a big LED room. ur going ot need to cool the room.. and exhaust and everything the same as a hps room.. maybe not as much cooling. but still it aint like these things are a miracle worker..

i just cant buy something that says.. our product improves YIELDS.. DENSITY and POTENCY.. really? those 3 things are mainly genetics.. and your miracle light can fix a shitty strain? i think not? .. but if its proven to work by someone respected by the communtiy. maybe more will be interested.. but until then.. good luck.. and i realy hope these do what you say they do.. but.. with the grow community..

EVERY ITEM in the GROW STORE.. is supposed to do the same things your claiming.. and most are 90% water.

so. we in this community.. take claims like that.. as Lies.to sell products. until proven wrong.. maybe not all of us. but i do.. and know alot of people who wouldnt switch to LED if you offered to front them the setups till the first harvest to pay you back lol.

just like the hydrostore guys who told me vertical growing doesnt improve yields.. and anyone who says different lies.. then i said ya. if i was selling reflectors and hoods.. id prolly say the SAME THING lol... its a way to get business. and then lose customers eventually.

 

[Mikenite69]

Well I know I would show a honest grow and what a lush led would do in my 4x4 setup. I would mono crop probably for the first time in my life and show results of the yield. Then I would run my hps after that led grow with same nutes same strain, veg time, etc. and show what the hps yielded.

Scales don't lie when it's all said and done. I am not biased and have nothing to gain wether the led grow yielded better or the hps yielded better. Pictures and finished results and with documented both grows u couldn't dispute the final results.

I am on the fence about LEDs or should I say just 1 panel out yielding my hps. I have saw some nice buds grown that Renae has posted in her other thread grown with lush. I know a lot of the buds were grown with multiple panels but nice buds anyways.

 

[Dr.Young]

 

[Snype]

Hi, Snype,
I agree with you that 4000w of LED would totally need some venting and AC. The light is still intense. But the units themselves stay cool to the touch. As for 4000w of HPS and 4000w of LED in the same room, you wouldn't need 4000w of LED to get the same yield. Our 435w unit can compare to 1000w of HPS. So, at 4000w of HPS, you'd only need 1740w of LED to get the same yield and save energy. You'd need 9.2 Dominator 2x LED lights to make up 4000w. Now, the Dominator 2xxl is the 650w light, which is 50% more light (2 more rows) so it's comparable about 1200w of HPS realistically. So, our 650w LED is not going to be fair to test against a 600w HPS if it's designed to compete with the 1000w HPS. I'll have to check if we've had a good test grow done like that. We have quite a few tests and grow journals done, just not on here. Now that we're opening the Lush retail store by Oct. 29, we'll have room to take videos and show tests, etc. We're getting there

So that means that growers should have no problem getting 2 pounds of quality flowers with your 435 watt LED. Those claims are very hard to believe but I'm sure we'd all like to see your tests. If that's what you are saying, why did you say this in your other thread:

Hi everyone! Let me tackle some questions here...

"1. Croptober, most people pull 20 oz off the Dominator 2xxl. That's our largest unit and it's concentrated footprint of a 4x4 (total footprint is 5x5)."

"

If most people get 560 grams with the dominator 2xxL, how are you going to get 1,000 grams from the smaller unit that's only 435 watts?

Led makers have continued to make crazy claims but in reality it looks like LED lights still have a tough time trying to get 1 gram per watt just like HPS lights but you are personally saying that a 435 watt LED is comparable to 1,000 watt HPS. If that's true, you should have some good pictures of grows getting 1,000 grams with 435 watts of LED. I'm sure we'd all love to see this.

 

[bombadil.360]

Snype, to be fair, only a few people are hitting the so-called 1 GPW with HID...

and the whole 1 GPW thing has not been established properly... that is, veg time for example, from seed or cutting? for how long before 12/12?

if only counting from 12/12 it does not really mean much, as you could veg a huge plant for 4 months, train it, and get a good yield, but you used tons of electricity to veg that huge plant.

so the argument about 1 GPW is not valid, as it is not the rule, but the exception.

if we want to keep the discussion honest, best to stay clear of that sort of argument.

peace

 

[rives]

Snype, to be fair, only a few people are hitting the so-called 1 GPW with HID...

so the argument about 1 GPW is not valid, as it is not the rule, but the exception.

if we want to keep the discussion honest, best to stay clear of that sort of argument.

peace

I think that you are reinforcing Snypes argument. If it takes an exceptional grower along with good genetics and a run that Murphy doesn't show himself, then how often do you think that someone is going to get 2.3 gpw with a 435w LED? It might happen, but it is going to take a truly exceptional set of circumstances.

 

[Snype]

Snype, to be fair, only a few people are hitting the so-called 1 GPW with HID...

and the whole 1 GPW thing has not been established properly... that is, veg time for example, from seed or cutting? for how long before 12/12?

if only counting from 12/12 it does not really mean much, as you could veg a huge plant for 4 months, train it, and get a good yield, but you used tons of electricity to veg that huge plant.

so the argument about 1 GPW is not valid, as it is not the rule, but the exception.

if we want to keep the discussion honest, best to stay clear of that sort of argument.

peace

You can veg for a year if you want to but a gram per watt is still relevant because no longer how long you veg for, it is still tough to get 1gpw.

If a 435 watt LED is comparable to 1,000 watt HPS, then if any average grower does a side by side in 2 separate tents, they will get the same yield. I think that it's safe to say that most growers on here get 1.5 pound out of 1,000 watt HPS but I don't think that growers on here get 1.5 pounds out of a 435 watt LED. I'm not saying it's impossible but I think it's much harder to get 1.5 pounds out of a 435 watt LED than to get 1.5 pounds off of an 1,000 watt HPS. Now if a 435 watt LED was comparable to 1,000 watt HPS, it would be safe to say that it would be very easy to get 1 pound from a 435 watt LED (which is less than 1 pound) but that is very uncommon which shows that a 435 watt LED isn't really comparable to 1,000 watt HPS. I'd love to see these grows though.

I'll keep an open mind and wait for Lush customers to start showing these grows. But for the record, if Lush Lighting says that the average grower with their 650 watt LED gets 560 grams, those numbers are comparable to the similar watts of HPS, not double or triple the HPS watts. 99% of growers will easily get 1 pound per 1,000 watt HPS, but do 99% of growers get 1 pound with a 435 watt LED? If they did they'd have to get a gram per watt to achieve that.

 

[bombadil.360]

I think that you are reinforcing Snypes argument. If it takes an exceptional grower along with good genetics and a run that Murphy doesn't show himself, then how often do you think that someone is going to get 2.3 gpw with a 435w LED? It might happen, but it is going to take a truly exceptional set of circumstances.

I understand; but I'm not trying to defend LED technology or Lush though; all I'm saying is that the whole 1 GPW is not a standard of how good an artificial light source is; there are many variables included in the equation to get a high yield indoors.

Cultivar, medium, style of growing, nutrients, and veg time, experience and knowledge of grower, and as you say, absence of Murphy; all play instrumental part in yield as well as quality.

Also, I'm quite sure you understand that veg time does matter a lot when it comes down to equating total power consumption, hence the '1 GPW' thing is pretty misleading.

And again, this is an argument against HID's supposed efficiency, and not a point I'm making in favor of LEDs.

peace

 

[bombadil.360]

You can veg for a year if you want to but a gram per watt is still relevant because no longer how long you veg for, it is still tough to get 1gpw.

If a 435 watt LED is comparable to 1,000 watt HPS, then if any average grower does a side by side in 2 separate tents, they will get the same yield. I think that it's safe to say that most growers on here get 1.5 pound out of 1,000 watt HPS but I don't think that growers on here get 1.5 pounds out of a 435 watt LED. I'm not saying it's impossible but I think it's much harder to get 1.5 pounds out of a 435 watt LED than to get 1.5 pounds off of an 1,000 watt HPS. Now if a 435 watt LED was comparable to 1,000 watt HPS, it would be safe to say that it would be very easy to get 1 pound from a 435 watt LED (which is less than 1 pound) but that is very uncommon which shows that a 435 watt LED isn't really comparable to 1,000 watt HPS. I'd love to see these grows though.

I'll keep an open mind and wait for Lush customers to start showing these grows. But for the record, if Lush Lighting says that the average grower with their 650 watt LED gets 560 grams, those numbers are comparable to the similar watts of HPS, not double or triple the HPS watts. 99% of growers will easily get 1 pound per 1,000 watt HPS, but do 99% of growers get 1 pound with a 435 watt LED? If they did they'd have to get a gram per watt to achieve that.

Snype, like I just wrote to rives, veg time is very relevant when it comes to equating power consumption, not only that, but if I veg a plant for, lets say, 6 months, under a 600watter, and train it and prune it very well, I will have an obvious advantage in the final yield over someone who vegged only for 2 months; you know this, I know this, we all know this. It is a whole lot easier to get big yields with big plants, and to get big plants, you need big veg times, and that means big electrical consumption which is one of the main variables in the equation to get a real number of Grams Per Watts.

and again, I'm not defending lush or LEDs, I'm just trying to point out that the argument in question is not solid and does not address anything really when it comes to a HID vs. LED debate.

If I give you a very low yielding cultivar, but of high quality, it doesn't really matter how good of a grower someone may be or if he is using HID or LED, when the genetics themselves are the limiting factor in the equation, etc...

peace

 

[Snype]

Again, I'm not knocking Lush's lights because they do look like they perform very well. We will have to just agree that we disagree with certain things. If I VEG a plant for 2 years, no matter what light that I use, I'll still have a hard time getting 1 gram per watt. That's all that I'm saying.

 

[Dr.Young]

With 0 veg, and more plants you will have a better chance at getting 1gpw than any veg will do. Veg is just going to increase leaves, and more likely to be more harm than good when talking about yield.. Regardless of light, I've had this debate too many times. There are people that swear SOG is the only way, some that dont/cant do it because of plant count, and some that actually think it can't compete with SCROG which is a terrible belief.

Light is the least important factor when you take into account most people just don't have the personality/understanding of science to be good at growing.
Some people just take what they see, and try to duplicate with no understanding of any science behind it. Some actually understand the science, and understand how/why someone can do good with Scrog/Sog...

If I use party cups, and only get 7 grams per plant... but I have a 8x8 row=64 plants.. thats your LB right there, and 1gpw on the 435w system... No matter if its HPS/CFL/LED it doesnt matter, it is do-able.

My only belief is that I'm speaking of is that LED is great because the spectrum, UV to Infrared is amazing, and having lights spread 35-36" long 8-12" wide.. Making a 3'x3' footprint I could easily put 64 party cups under that light... Do I need to? Not really...
With HPS I could do a 4x4 row=16 plants, and get 1 ounce per plant to achieve the LB.. with CFL that would be harder, and with LED it might still be harder...but either way you can manipulate plant count to achieve whatever is possible, and required to reach the LB.

There is no doubt that a 435w light can produce 7g plants in party cups. So there should be no doubt that I could get the LB.

 

[theJointedOne]

a pound out of a 8x8 is pretty horrible

im confused

 

[Dr.Young]

8x8 row of plants (64 plants)
not 8'x8'

Just saying how numbers of plants are important when talking yield. With scrog, and veg time your basically guessing what it will turn out to be, but SOG is the most controlled method if yield matters to you. Of course you can be familiar with a certain strain/pheno, and know its gonna get you about 4oz+ with a 30 day veg. Its just less controlled.

When I read the part where I said veg will be more harmful than good, I just meant the shading factor, and distancing from the light+shading killing the lights intensity, BUT with strains like SourBubble and strains that grow INSANELY slow yes you HAVE to veg.. GSC....Bubba... etc etc

Dont take what I say as any kinda superiority BS. I just think a lot of people approach things the wrong way... The other day my friend was asking me questions about how to grow.. He was writing down what I said... The first thing he said was... I was looking at seeds online, and it said the yield for cotton candy kush or w/e is up to 4 ounce so he has to get 4 ounce. I dont want to do SOG if Im only going to get a oz.. that doesnt make sense... Even when I explained the whole 0 veg, and grow being finished twice as fast, and you can put 4 plants in the same amount of space you would normally have just 1 plant... He just couldnt grasp it, and looked at me like I was stupid, and I dont know what Im talking about if I dont tell him how to get 4 ounce. I was about to deck the kid when he said I was beating around the bush.

 

[rives]

There is no doubt that a 435w light can produce 7g plants in party cups. So there should be no doubt that I could get the LB.

You've cut the anticipated yield by more than half. Snype said that at 1gpw, a 1k light will produce 1000 grams (2.2 lbs) of product, so if the 435w fixture is it's equivalent, then it would need to produce 2.3gpw.

I'm reasonably sure that the next time someone gets 2.3 gpw with a 435w LED fixture will be the first time.

 

[Dr.Young]

Yeah I wasn't responding to anything. I was just saying how easy it is.... cause 7g plants is a GURANTEEEEEEE. I was just saying worst case scenario almost impossible to fail 7g is achievable...

2gpw on the 435w would require 13.59g plants in a 8x8 row=64plnt

Your right though.... 2gpw is achievable with a 1k ... but it would be impossible for me to get 2,000g with a 435w regardless of how wild I got with plant count...
To me 1gpw is just intermediate skills with HPS 2gpw is when your killing it or really focusing on yield specifically before anything else (special pheno of a high yielding strain, and killing it in SOG or Scrog).

That doesn't mean you suck or your intermediate skilled if you get 1gpw. All that matters is ya have some killer bud, and the strain/pheno gives you your ideal meds/effect. The intermediate statement is just for commercial growers who are actually trying to get quantity over quality.

 

[Dr.Young]

We'll see though, Just be patient guys. I know I can get 1gpw, but not sure beyond that because I have a plant limit to work with..

 

[Miraculous Meds]

My take on yield and gpw.

For me what is important is getting as high as yield as possible out of the flower room. So I know there is no debate when calculating total wattage used that sog wins every single time.

Now that weve cleared that up, lets talk about personal issues. Some people want to run fewer larger plants to be within legal guidelines, so sog is not an option.

So my personal take on it is that the value of the product being produced is more than enough to justify the extra wattage for longer vegging for big plants if that is ur strategy.

So the amount of flower days is the limiting factor when looked at it as a small price to pay for vegging wattage. So if u had a 50 day flower strain that yields .85 gpw and a 70 flower strain that yields 1.25 gpw u are in the same ball park of yield per year of finished product.

Basically what it comes down to for me is if I can get above gpw in flower, then I can be very profitable.

So I don't care if someone takes 50 plants per 600w and gets 600g in 60 days of flower, or if they set up a separate veg with about 1/4 of the lighting and use 2 plants per 600w and get 600g, in 60 days flower, both ways are going to be very profitable.