Destroy & Rebuild: The Final Chapter - Part 1 (The Planning Phase)

[Snype]

There's 2 plans that I can see for 16,000 watts with 16 plants. I really don't know if it would be better to run a 1,000 watt Gavita over each plant for a horizontal grow or to do a vertical bare bulb grow. The goal is to try and get 1.5 pound plants. I've looked over these types of grows on various websites and I'm thinking that vertical would work the best for this application but I'd have to do some testing to verify which one is actually better. I'm seeing other growers getting 2+ pounds per plant this way so it's nice to know that these numbers are possible with so few plants. I'm going with RDWC because I believe that it'll considerably cut down on the VEG time compared to other methods from my experience. The goal is to only VEG in the Flowering room, in what I'll call VEG-C, for 14 days. Before that they will be in dedicated Veg rooms. If things work like it looks in my head, I'll still be able to get the same number of crops per year compared to my other systems which house 5 plants per light instead of 1 plant per light. This is going to be an interesting experience. The most that I've ever got off of 1 plant is 12oz. That was a Shiva Skunk that I had in a single 5 Gallon DWC bucket that shared 1,000 watt bulb with other plants. I like the idea of going into a room and seeing trees!

Vertical Bare Bulb Grow
------*-----*-----*
---P-----P-----P-----P
*----•------•-----•----*
---P-----P-----P-----P
*----•------•-----•----*
---P-----P-----P-----P
*----•------•-----•----*
---P-----P-----P-----P
------*-----*-----*

P = Plant
• = 1,000 Watt Vertical
* = 600 Watt Vertical

Note: 60" plant centers, (2) x 8 plant RDWC systems

Also 13 of the cuttings are showing roots now! One of those happens to be Pre98 Bubba Kush which I've never grown before! Only a few left to go!

 

[high life 45]

How you planing to cool everything? Looks like youul need about 5 tons of ac if your going sealed.

 

[Snype]

How you planing to cool everything? Looks like youul need about 5 tons of ac if your going sealed.

Here's a post that I had about the AC situation:

I originally wanted to go with central air but I think it's going to be hard to figure out. I think instead I'll put 2 x 3 tons of mini spits in each room. Both of the mini spits that I'm looking at come with 2 zones and have 2 air handlers and 1 condenser. So if we got 2 condensers for each room, we'd also have 4 air handlers that can be spread around for each floor.

Here are the 2 options that I'm looking at:

2x18000 Btu Dual Zone 16 Seer Inverter Mini Split Heat Pump AC
http://www.minisplitwarehouse.com/2..._Mini_Split_Heat_Pump_AC/p315964_7696110.aspx

Mitsubishi 30,000 BTU 17.5 SEER Dual Zone Heat Pump System 15+15
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsu...at=cat1094&subCat=cat1037&trail=5206:15 + 15#

I called Mitsubishi today to ask them about that second option and they said that the condenser won't run if the temperature is less than 24F. They said that they don't have low ambient kits for them so I'm looking more at the first option.

I've never heard of the company in the first link but it says that it has a low ambient kit built into it and lots of other cool options. It also has more BTU's and cost $1,300 less. It says that it operates down to 5F so this one could work. I'm leaning more towards the mini splits in the first link unless anyone else knows why I shouldn't.

I'm hoping that I can find a good option for air conditioning where I can place the condenser outside in the middle of winter without the unit shutting down. If I have to, I'll consider building a room in the barn that'll house all the condensers and exhaust all that heat out as well as exhaust new air in. Wondering if anyone has any advice that will help me here.

I'm leaning more on the first option because the condenser can be run at a lower temperature than the Mitsubishi. Anything you can offer would be nice. So basically I was going to go with 6 tons which should be plenty by my calculations.

 

[Catatafish]

Snype not sure what the funds are like at the moment, but you may want to consider dual condensers, instead of 1 dual zone. Or even dual, dual zones on smaller heads, ie 9k btu? 16k watts is a lot to lose if one fails, i think i would cry and pack it up at that point.

I recently did a FE series mitsu, i believe it goes down to 14F for ac, not sure if that will be enough for ya. They put a new model out, i think the FH series, has a better remote with scheduling options. Install was pretty simple once i figured out what to do.

 

[Catatafish]

Will 30k btu even cool 16k properly?

 

[Snype]

Snype not sure what the funds are like at the moment, but you may want to consider dual condensers, instead of 1 dual zone. Or even dual, dual zones on smaller heads, ie 9k btu? 16k watts is a lot to lose if one fails, i think i would cry and pack it up at that point.

I recently did a FE series mitsu, i believe it goes down to 14F for ac, not sure if that will be enough for ya. They put a new model out, i think the FH series, has a better remote with scheduling options. Install was pretty simple once i figured out what to do.

Will 30k btu even cool 16k properly?

I know it's hard to understand what I'm saying but if you look closely at what I said in the last post, you'll see that I'm buying 2 orders of the Mini Split. That means that there will be 2 condensers and 4 Air Handlers. That will equal 72,000 BTUs unless I went with the 2nd link which I would also buy 2 units that would equal 60,000 BTU's.

That's pretty slick that you installed your mini-split yourself! Hopefully I'll be able to do the same because my HVAC guy isn't going to work out.

 

[Catatafish]

Ah i see. Nice Nice! I like the dual dual zone idea, all four quads of the room nice and even!

Yep you can install it yourself. Not familiar with dual-zones but as long as both lines sets go to the compressor it shouldn't be bad (no junction boxes and such). I have no hvac experience. Takes a little time the first run until you understand whats going on.

Get some good tools, well worth it especially if you have pack up shop and get out of dodge. Get a bottle of nitrogen for testing, cost me $12 after deposit refunded. Still way way under what you will pay someone.

I can send you some links on what i used if you want.

 

[Mister_D]

There's a short tutorial with pictures on how to install mini-splits in the first 10-20 pages of my vert redemption thread . It's broken into two parts a couple pages apart from each other. Nothing terribly difficult in doing it, but you'll need a couple specialized tools. Also as catatafish mentioned, I'd definitely recommend you go with more single zone units vs. fewer multi-zone units. Especially if you're going to buy anything other than a mitsu or friedrich brand a/c. Just about everything else is cheap Chinese shit with known reliability issues (usually the circuit boards fry, or compressors shit out after 6 months to a year).

 

[Snype]

Ah i see. Nice Nice! I like the dual dual zone idea, all four quads of the room nice and even!

Yep you can install it yourself. Not familiar with dual-zones but as long as both lines sets go to the compressor it shouldn't be bad (no junction boxes and such). I have no hvac experience. Takes a little time the first run until you understand whats going on.

Get some good tools, well worth it especially if you have pack up shop and get out of dodge. Get a bottle of nitrogen for testing, cost me $12 after deposit refunded. Still way way under what you will pay someone.

I can send you some links on what i used if you want.

I'm glad that i'll have people to help me installing this. You're right, if something goes bad, I'll have the tools to take it with me!

There's a short tutorial with pictures on how to install mini-splits in the first 10-20 pages of my vert redemption thread . It's broken into two parts a couple pages apart from each other. Nothing terribly difficult in doing it, but you'll need a couple specialized tools. Also as catatafish mentioned, I'd definitely recommend you go with more single zone units vs. fewer multi-zone units. Especially if you're going to buy anything other than a mitsu or friedrich brand a/c. Just about everything else is cheap Chinese shit with known reliability issues (usually the circuit boards fry, or compressors shit out after 6 months to a year).

The reviews that I read on those dual zone units seemed really good. I just don't like the idea of having so many condensers outside which is going to look funny to the neighbors. I'll check out your thread to get an idea of what i'm going to be dealing with. Thanks!

 

[JointOperation]

run flower lights at night.. and use winter air. i dont use AC in the winter.. and i save half my electric bill.. i can run more lights.. and make more buds.. with no AC.. ive ran up to 8000w in a single 10x14 with just winter air ...

we had 1 room.. that had a little walk in closet.. with a tiny window had to be like 10inches.. turned that into the intake.. and used a window in the room as the exhaust.. and we actually had to put the intake and exhaust on a thermostat because it was getting the room TOO COLD...

thats the best thing about winter grows.. run the lights at night in the flower rooms.. using the nice cold air as your air conditioner.. instead of wasting electricity..

even for sealed.. u could run the outdoor air through a lung room or lung box.. first.. or even the veg room first.. if its that cold. and u could simply cool your hoods no issues...

 

[Snauseberry]

^^ great idea. I cooled a 3k in a 10x10 while just using an 8 inch fan for exhausting (intake on the other side of the room) And i live in the desert.. Coolest night temp was probably only mid to high 20's

 

[Snype]

run flower lights at night.. and use winter air. i dont use AC in the winter.. and i save half my electric bill.. i can run more lights.. and make more buds.. with no AC.. ive ran up to 8000w in a single 10x14 with just winter air ...

we had 1 room.. that had a little walk in closet.. with a tiny window had to be like 10inches.. turned that into the intake.. and used a window in the room as the exhaust.. and we actually had to put the intake and exhaust on a thermostat because it was getting the room TOO COLD...

thats the best thing about winter grows.. run the lights at night in the flower rooms.. using the nice cold air as your air conditioner.. instead of wasting electricity..

even for sealed.. u could run the outdoor air through a lung room or lung box.. first.. or even the veg room first.. if its that cold. and u could simply cool your hoods no issues...

Yeah I'm going to run the first soil crop with winter air but that'll probably only take up 6,000 watts. That shouldn't be a problem but I still have to buy the mini-spits for the bigger room with 16 lights. I have to be able to control all my variables no matter what the weather is like outside so the AC's will be needed.

 

["HEMPEROR"]

Hey snype looks like when you do things you do it big time! power to ya bro i hope you dont mind me tagging along for the ride matey atb with the rest...hemp!

 

[Mister_D]

The reviews that I read on those dual zone units seemed really good. I just don't like the idea of having so many condensers outside which is going to look funny to the neighbors. I'll check out your thread to get an idea of what i'm going to be dealing with. Thanks!

It's not that the dual zones aren't solid (provided you buy a quality unit anyway). Just that it's better in the event of failure to have one a/c go down instead of two (can mean the difference between your crop surviving or not). You're point about the multiple condensers is definitely valid however. Though there are certainly ways to disguise them

 

[Miraculous Meds]

run flower lights at night.. and use winter air. i dont use AC in the winter.. and i save half my electric bill.. i can run more lights.. and make more buds.. with no AC.. ive ran up to 8000w in a single 10x14 with just winter air ...

we had 1 room.. that had a little walk in closet.. with a tiny window had to be like 10inches.. turned that into the intake.. and used a window in the room as the exhaust.. and we actually had to put the intake and exhaust on a thermostat because it was getting the room TOO COLD...

thats the best thing about winter grows.. run the lights at night in the flower rooms.. using the nice cold air as your air conditioner.. instead of wasting electricity..


even for sealed.. u could run the outdoor air through a lung room or lung box.. first.. or even the veg room first.. if its that cold. and u could simply cool your hoods no issues...

I love that about winter, replace ac wattage with flowering wattage! Also heat with gas and free co2!!

Good luck on the project snype. I couldn't imaging putting all my eggs into one basket of rdwc. I hope u crush it though!

 

[Snypette]

What up IC I had to take a brake for a while after everything went down. It's pretty depressing to be looking at awesome outdoor grows after what happened. Thank you to everyone/anyone for any kind words and/or advice to me and/or Snype throughout this process.

Me and Snype are giving this one more chance together and partnering up. But this time, it's just me and him. No other people will be involved. & as a 50/50 partner everything has to be agreed upon so there's not going to be any spontaneous bullshit popping up. Thankfully. Unfortunately you can't trust people and 99% of them are just looking to see what they can get out of you. That being said, all I want to do is team up with snype and work our asses off in isolation. I don't care what circumstances may arise, no one is coming to the spot. My trust in human beings is fucked.

 

["HEMPEROR"]

Hey welcome back sorry to hear bout your misfortune but like you say pick up and move on! my first rule of growing i ever learned was tell know one! less ppl know the less ppl you can point the finger at if the shit hits the fan! that aside atb with your new venture and i wish you every success!.......hemp!

 

[Miraculous Meds]

What up IC I had to take a brake for a while after everything went down. It's pretty depressing to be looking at awesome outdoor grows after what happened. Thank you to everyone/anyone for any kind words and/or advice to me and/or Snype throughout this process.

Me and Snype are giving this one more chance together and partnering up. But this time, it's just me and him. No other people will be involved. & as a 50/50 partner everything has to be agreed upon so there's not going to be any spontaneous bullshit popping up. Thankfully. Unfortunately you can't trust people and 99% of them are just looking to see what they can get out of you. That being said, all I want to do is team up with snype and work our asses off in isolation. I don't care what circumstances may arise, no one is coming to the spot. My trust in human beings is fucked.

Rule of thumb is if ur not sure then don't risk it. That makes it simple. there are good people, just don't risk ur lively hood to find out if they are good or not. know it.

15 or 20 years doing it and only 4 people have ever seen. People may assume but they cant prove what they didn't see.

gl on ur venture!

 

[Snype]

We got 15 cuttings rooted and transplanted into Fox Farm Ocean Forest Soil. I was hoping we'd have at least 16 plants to start but there's still a few more cuts that could root. We only got 1 Pre98 Bubba Kush to root and 2 Chem Valley Kush's as well. The majority of the cuts are BYTCH and Illuminati which I'm happy about because those are great yielders.

We are getting ready to depart any day now. The first goal is to veg these plants for at least a month under 1,000 watters and flower them out with at least 4,000 watts.

About a month after flowering, we are going to take clones of the BYTCH's to put into an RDWC flowering room of the 10 bucket RDWC systems in my signature. Hopefully we will be able to run 2 systems under 4,000 watts but that'll all depend on how much money we are able to acquire at that time. If we don't have enough money then we will have to run only 1 system with 2,000 watts. The main goal in this first leg of the operation is to get 10 pounds of dried flowers. I think that goal is on the conservative side but if we can reach that goal we will be on a good path to completing the bigger room for the next grow.

We have some other good opportunities in the area that we are going to which could really help out a lot. I'm hearing that there's tons of trim and larf from other growers that want me to turn it into oil and concentrates for them for a great fee. I'm really trying to take advantage of that part of the business and hope that in the future I can build a good business for running people's products for them. I've also been working hard trying to build a little retail oil business selling e-cigs and oil to college networks. I'm hopping to set up a few of my old friends with e-cigs and packaged oil to see if they can build up a decent market. I've been looking for the right e-cig to pair with the oil and so far I was able to find this one:
http://www.vapes.com/yocan-exgo-w3-wax-pen-vaporizer-kit/

I think that I can get those in bigger quantities for around $20 each. Personally I'm not trying to make money for them but use them as a tool to make the oil move faster in smaller quantities. It's also a good way for my friends to make money while helping us build a market at the same time. We'll see how that goes though.

I've been reading so many threads on various sites over the last few weeks to get a better idea of growing 1 plant per light. I go back and forth with ideas due to seeing so many different threads all doing different things. I still have no idea if it is better to grow bigger trees with Gavita's, E-Pap's or Vertical Bare Bulbs. For the first crop in the new room we are most likely going to do a big test to see which lights work the best for our situation. I'm sure I'll be performing many tests out in the middle of no where. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm really not sure how my access to internet and ICmag that we are going to have so I have no idea when I'll be back here but we will be taking loads of pics of all the progress and tests. I really believe that this place is going to be the best experience of my life so far. We will see how this journey goes. I wish you all luck with your individual journey's.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Id go vert for trees, I just cant see how u could get 6 to 7' penetration with overhead light like u can with vert.

Id do the tree style like heaths or screens with 4 plants around 2 or 3 vert bulbs. With the right strains its very possible to get into that 1.5 to 2gpw range.

gl