Hey ICMag! We are Lush LED Lighting!!!

[Dr.Young]

Lets keep this positive.
You guys have already wasted over 3 pages speaking with negative intentions, and showing obvious disregard for Lush's efforts.
Why speak on a topic that you are not interested enough to research, or purchase from Lush, but interested more in posting uneducated insults, and negativity for no reason.

Please, Please lets be considerate folks.
This is a forum based on MJ, and the people that love the plant. People that need the medicine for themselves or others.
Lets not get negative for no reason. This plant is a life saver there is nothing to be mad about.

Lush's only intention is to fuel the plant in a fashion similar to the sun, so that the plant is nurtured the way it was intended.
They have created a light different from the other LED companies, and with different intentions.
They use a different mixture of spectrum, they have considered Par/UV-Infrared/umOl, and color blending.
Instead of the uneducated, and old fashion way that it has been grown for over 3 decades now.
It is time to wake up, and evolve. There is no need to hold on to a method of growing that has grown less efficient, less safe, less practical, and counter-productive.
We are wasting time, resources, and cannabis with this mindset that we should cling on to a light that wastes more than 60% of its electrical use, and requires more watts to cool than this new technology light uses in total.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Pycho.... a 435w covering a 3'x3', and a 2nd one covering another 3'x3'... that is 6'x6'. Not sure what your reason for being negative, or wrong is, but please. Just cease

Actually a 3x3 coverage is 9sq ft. So two of those would be 18 sq ft. A 6x6 area is 36 sq ft. I know what u say sounds right but it isn't by what I just showed u. U would need 4 of those to cover 6 x 6.

I am interested in LED's though. Where are the grow pics, I just looked through the last few pages but didn't see any?

 

[Dr.Young]

Your right lol. I got sidetracked focusing on the whole watt thing more than the foot thing...
What I was picturing would of basically been 3'x6' not 6'x6' my bad.
870w of LED would gladly cover that.
Thats not even counting the fact that a 1k actually pulls more around 1200w, and the required inline fan is probably over 200+ watts so basically 1400-1600w... which would allow for damn near 4 LED systems. Which would cover the 6'x6' lol.... not trying to weasel my way out.. I'm just lazy. I'm not the most educated person, but some things are pretty obvious.. Watt for watt. LED is killing it

 

[Miraculous Meds]

All good, its easy to confuse that.

what I wanted to know by looking through this thread was.

how are, or are led's more efficient. I didn't get a clear answer.

What about penetration into the canopy. While I read claims of 2' I know my 600watters barely penetrate that far, and I am very experienced at maximizing canopy penetration. That's with 1 point source of light, leds have several correct?

Bulb replacement, and longevity. Nope I don't understand either yet.

Grows, ideally in this website since we are here discussing this. Nope, haven't found one yet.

Comparison pics, the one I seen looked like 2 super imposed buds, one looking like it was drying and picked already just placed there in front of the canopy, now im not calling anyone a liar here, just the pic looks funny.

I want to believe and am willing to listen, I just am not getting the info I need to make an informed decision.

Any chance to clarify what I don't understand and point me towards grows here?

 

[RedBeardy5]

Well a hps bulb should be replaced every 2nd grow, LEDs last about 10 years. Yes LEDs can penetrate deeper into the canopy than hps lights. You really have to try it for yourself, I did and plan on switching to all LEDs. People dogging on LEDs are either not educated or can't afford them.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Well a hps bulb should be replaced every 2nd grow, LEDs last about 10 years. Yes LEDs can penetrate deeper into the canopy than hps lights. You really have to try it for yourself, I did and plan on switching to all LEDs. People dogging on LEDs are either not educated or can't afford them.

Hps every 2nd grow. I like to change them often but I go 4 grows, but there should be clarification, I mean only flowering so only 12 hours a day.

"Leds can penetrate deeper", can u point me to a grow that shows this experience, id love to see it.

I love trying things but there is no way im dropping 1500$ or so to prove something to myself before I know there is valid proof. Its the companies responsibility to give me the info to make me want to buy it. not me proving to myself at a cost.

 

[Dr.Young]

Just look at the website.. Everything that gets questioned is on the website.
They explain the photosynthesis process, and what Lush does

Infrared helps with penetration through the canopy, and is not visible with human eye.. Plus you have the 2x lense which helps with the 90* angle, and penetration.
If you look at this comparison to the sun basically

It shows that the footprint, and everything is optimum between 16-26".
With all the stuff on paper aside.. If you look at this link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1VOmN1jZJY

You'll see that penetration is the least of your worries..
Just read the Lush website guys... its pretty easy

 

[Snype]

Thats not even counting the fact that a 1k actually pulls more around 1200w, and the required inline fan is probably over 200+ watts so basically 1400-1600w...

Here a picture of my Lumatek 1,000 watt ballast using only 1,050 watts and not around 1200 watts like you state. I also don't have an inline fan producing up to another 400 watts like you state. That's the problem with all these LED claims. I'm not knocking LED's but if we can't be real about what's happening, it's not going to help. Here's the pic:

Yes LEDs can penetrate deeper into the canopy than hps lights.

I highly doubt that. It's pretty easy to prove though.

 

[theJointedOne]

hard data and real journals (not just random led bud shots) work best, imho

 

[JointOperation]

yup. like i tried to say.. toss someone on here.. enough to power a room with the same amount of watts as a 1000w hps.. so that we can see . what a 1000w of LEDS do. compared to 1000w of hps..

then maybe ill spend over a GRAND per unit.. lol.. id rather just pay for the e paps.. or gavitas.

 

[JointOperation]

Hi Mikenite69,
You are correct. The 2x lens does act like a magnifying glass, making the light not only more intense, but also focusing the light in so that it penetrates deeper into the canopy.

i read that the 2x lens on LEDS. reduce the intensity of the light by 20% but magnify it further into the canopy.. so while penetrating u lose some of the parr or whatever.. im not a light expert. but this is what i was READING so can you explain why your lenses are different then other lenses?

 

[Dr.Young]

Just be patient guys. I'm going to show you a good example of the Lush Dominator 2x 435w system which is all I need to compete with a 1k.

I just transplanted some SourBubble bx3 into larger containers. I also have a pack of SweetTooth#4 that is recently germinated, and above the dirt now (already 12/12 from seed). Also some SLH x Oger99 already flowering. Everything is SOG style flowering. I'm trying different size containers from 20oz bottles, 1 liter, 2 liter, 3 liter soda bottles. Already have my favorite pheno of SLHxOger99 cloned, and just starting to veg into my momma for another run with multiple cuts of her. I'm going to put a few seeds in every week 12/12/ from seed until I feel she is filled up.

I'm waiting to see if I can get some cuts from a few people that want to help in the process of demonstrating what this light can do. Hopefully I get to show off ECSD, maybe a Swt#3 cut. Not sure but maybe SSSDH, Blue Dream. I want to show off some stuff that people are familiar with, but I also want to focus on my personal meds, and breeding interests. Not really sure, ive always have a rough time having people come through with their promises of gifting stuff like that. Beans are a little easier of a gift of course.

I have a 9'x9' room that I'm going to get more Lush LED lights after this run to fill up the room, I'm just poor so taking baby steps. I wont really merge the lights though, they will always shine individually because I want to really have a clean proffesional setup that will basically be 3'x3' footprints with some being a SOG setup, some being a Scrog setup.. Indica, and Sativa sections... We shall see, I just have to get some keeper females, and get things organized the way I want to really get the ball rolling. I'm starting from scratch again so bare with me.


Trust me guys.... I love this website.. I owe everything I know about this plant to this place being here after Overgrow went down.
I was 14 years old staying up for 2-3 days at a time reading for literally 48+hours at a time (over a decade ago). I quit playing videogames, and hanging out with friends just to study this plant. I remember being around that age saying to myself... Why do people pay for herb, I refuse to pay for herb for the rest of my life, and do without money because I behave like a drug addict or someone too lazy to provide for themselves. I love everybody here regardless of differing beliefs, but just trust me...
Like I said... a month ago, I would have told you that LEDs are just not ready to compete with HID, the price is high because they are trying to get investment money for R&D (research & development).... That is NOT the case...

Please Please, just look at some LED threads/grow if you think LEDs suck. I thought they still sucked. About 2 weeks ago I randomly said fuckit, I'm going to check out a few grows to see if anyone is getting pretty stuff with them yet. It went from a 5 minute skim at midnight into me staying up until 6 in the morning completely obsessed, and contacting every LED company I could find in that time-frame. I woke up the next day with a response from a few companies. I kept reading, and planning. I found LUSH to be the most concerned with what is important factor/advantage of LEDs which is the UV,Blue,Red,Infrared spectrums, and being able to tailor a footprint of light specifically for signaling, and feeding the plant the right way. I told Renae I would love to be one of the first people on the forum to do a grow log with Lush, and she treated me with the most respectable, hospitable response I could of asked for. She put business aside, and the MJ community's opinion above all. This isn't about money, this is about helping people overcome the doubt of LED for the sake of evolution in this plant, and its community. I gain nothing at all from spending time to type this, or converting myself to LED. The light rewards me everything I need. I just want other people to come to the exciting enlightenment that I did that night. Trust me, I'm not getting a penny, or anything for expressing myself. There is no incentive for me to be doing this. I just want to be the guy 5 years from now that people thank for putting my neck on the chopping block, and go for broke trying to help people help themselves. All it takes is a couple minutes of searching. Just search LEDs in general, you will see that LEDs work. Then when you see they are amazing, then you of course are going to want the best LED... Then you start reading the LUSH website, and realize they actually cover all grounds that would make a optimum light/spectrum/system.

Look at this video... This will show you that LEDs are amazing... Then when you want to learn about EC,Par,Umol,Photosynthesis, and spectrum. Go to Lush's website to see what they talk about (nothing to do with buying/pricing or their lights, just their science).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJIjJ5nZUZw


Check out the Lush Website
http://www.lushledlighting.com/Dominator-2X-Data.html

 

[Lush Lighting]

I am interested in LED's though. Where are the grow pics, I just looked through the last few pages but didn't see any?

I have actually been on another thread posting pictures there so that I don't spam this thread. The link to it is at the very bottom of my signature but I'll repost it here:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=293570

[/FONT]

 

[Lush Lighting]

Please be patient as there are quite a few posts for me to read through and answer...

 

[Lush Lighting]

Renae

How about putting your tech stuff together, and telling me how much % wise, your LED would save over the T5s I'm currently using?

Per square foot.
I'm seeing the operational advantages Logistically.

I'm just a personal grower, with plant count constraints here in Colorado.
So square feet are not an issue for me. Just heat and sparks.

However my Piggy Bank needs fattening on occasion. lol

Our 330w Vegetator 2x will outperform a 8 lamp T5 450w fixture, saving you about 25%. The true benefit comes from growing healthier plants that grow faster and bigger. You will see an increase in root mass, closer internode spacing and bottom growth expansion. At the end of your vegetation period it's clear to see that a Lush plant is prepared to produce bigger flowers. We also have a plant count constraint here in Michigan. One of the biggest reasons for the creation of Lush lights. Being allowed only 72 plants, it was necessary to get as much as possible from every plant. I hope this is the answer you were looking for. If not, please let me know and I'll try again. Thank you, Renae.

 

[Lush Lighting]

[quote DrFever: LEDs are wired in series in arrays it's possible for the entire lamp to go out if one LED burns out.]

Personally, I've never seen one of our LEDs go completely out. I've seen a small grouping go out but it still operates at about 40% until we send the replacement light and repair the malfunctioning unit.

As for the claims of other LED companies, I really can't vouch for them. We have always remained realistic about our lights. Our 435w unit compares to nearly 1000w of HPS, we have proven this so we can say that. Our 650w unit compares with about 1200w of HPS. That's not a big claim. We tested them and have found this to be true. No idea who claims to outperform by 20-30 times over HPS. LED is a technology that's come a long way to compare with HPS in the yield department while still utilizing its strengths of energy efficiency, longevity, cost of maintenance and low heat. LED companies, at least ours LED company, has been eating, sleeping, living to better the LED technology and stay ahead of the other guys. Our next model has a prototype coming out by Christmas. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. So many of these debates I see on here are hard to see because I know that the argument will be a mute point. I can't say anything right now.
I have no idea where you got the notion that I represent all of the other people out there and feel like taking things out on me. I don't know who is putting YouTube videos together and making you upset. Or saying all these things to you. Venting maybe? Idk. I can't make you happy. I hope you find the answers you seek. Good luck my friend. Peace.

 

[Aotf]

Hi magiccannabus, I think you will be happy with try out our next model. I can't say anything about it yet but soon.
Mikenite69, Thanks for being impartial. I appreciate your input. One thing I'd like to note is that if anything goes wrong with a Lush light, we don't send you parts. We're Michigan based and we'll send you a replacement while our in house engineer fixes any problems so your garden doesn't suffer. In our new retail store in Niles, we'll have our engineer on site for locals to have anything repaired while they wait.
Hello, 2 Legal Co, our Dominator 2xxl covers a 5x5 footprint but is concentrated at 4x4 at 2' away from canopy. The 2x lens makes the light more intense so you still don't really want to get it closer than 2'. Babies, I'd say 4' up to 2' away as they grow.
As for Aotf, I feel a lot of hostility coming from you. I just want everyone to remain friendly. Hopefully someday you'll be more open to the thought of LED. Peace

No hate at all, just stating the obvious. Seems like you didn't even read my post at all.

Why would you brush aside the Cree/Nichia comment? I have read and read well. I love that you are making an effort, an honest one though?

No one posted a single thing, there isn't much on the Interwebz in termz of what you are actually using, bin diode, drivers, etc etc etc.

So until then, I would NEVER consider your product just from that fact alone. And your sway from the real argument.

Some are here to push the boundaries of LED and lighting in general and will always be that way, some will just try to make a buck along the way.

I can guess which category y'all are in. Opinion's can be changed, always, but nothing is impressive about your lights other than better tech is available for less coin, its that simple.

IC, has really taken a dump over the last 2 years. Sucks. Paid schills in virtually every goddamn forum. Too bad.

 

[Lush Lighting]

i read that the 2x lens on LEDS. reduce the intensity of the light by 20% but magnify it further into the canopy.. so while penetrating u lose some of the parr or whatever.. im not a light expert. but this is what i was READING so can you explain why your lenses are different then other lenses?

I don't really know where you read that about 2x lenses but I know that our 2x lenses intensify the light, that's the reason for the 2x lens. So, if you're at a foot away from the light and you have, hypothetically, 100 lumens with a single lens, you would have 200 lumens with a 2x lens. And 2 feet away, with a single lens, if you see lumens reduce to 50 lumens, with a 2x lens you would have 100 lumens because the reduction in light would remain twice the amount with a 2x lens than it would with a single lens. That makes sense in my head, I hope it's reading the same way.

As for grow journals, we really do have a few but we're just beginning them on ICMag. I can't mention the names of the other forums they're on out of respect for the rules here. Now that I see the need for them, I'll see and get another one going in tandem with Dr.Young's upcoming grow. I will have to start it on another thread and not spam this thread.

 

[Dr.Young]

I totally agree with your technical breakdown of LED claims. We have to fish through them as well. When someone buys a light bulb, they know that the light bulb's reputation is known as being trustworthy. They go to the store and buy a light bulb. When we want to sell our LED light, we have to first establish our light's reputation as being what we say it is. It's a difficult job. People are usually only convinced by seeing the end product so that's why I continue to post pics like I have been on the other thread I started.
We just got our first Lush retail store and we open in eight days. We were just talking about how now that we have a good place to do it, we want to begin PAR testing videos. Not that we haven't done the tests, just no vids. So, those videos are coming pretty soon. I'll make it a priority now that I know people want those answers.
As for the diodes, we do use mostly Cree, some Bridgelux, some Epistar. But, Cree has recently changed the way the diode plugs into the LED so while we still have inventory that contain the Cree diodes, their diodes won't fit our lights for much longer. That's another reason why we are changing our units. Our next model should have a prototype ready by Christmas and it will blow your socks off. Our engineers and my husband (the owner of Lush) have been pounding out something very unique; and I've had the pleasure of naming it As for the hefty price, one thing to note is that while our regular price for the Dominator 2xxl is $1699, you never have to pay full price for it because we always offer a discount code: ICMAG710 for 10% off, bringing it down to $1529.10. Let me know if I can be more thorough or any other questions I may have missed.

AoTf...... There ya go.
She gets on here every night before bed, and is doing the best she can even with all the recent negativity I hope we can get back to whats really important, and start focusing on being positive. Stick together, not divide.

Please I just want to get back to positive guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgMP65_SD60

http://www.lushledlighting.com/Why-Lush-Lighting.html

 

[Aotf]

4 feet away ???? you serious i would really like to see par readings at 4 feet hahaha what 300 if your lucky ???

Another thing that i find amusing is how LED companies claim there lights give off little to no heat ?? Bottom line from an engineering perspective, watt for watt LEDs generate as much heat as any other type of lighting and they currently have a lower electrical efficiency (and lower luminous efficacy!) than high intensity discharge (HID) lighting such as high pressure sodium. LEDs will last longer than HID bulbs but there's many more of them to burn out and since LEDs are wired in series in arrays it's possible for the entire lamp to go out if one LED burns out.

then you here LED grow lights are 20 or 30 times better than HPS (some really claim this) but when you really dig down deeper
any company can bluff you into thinking that there charts are dead on etc but to get actual umol readings sure they show you right under the light but as that meter moves outwards or light moves up the greater drop in umol readings occur
Let's also look at photon flux density. A 100 watt LED light can put out lighting levels of roughly 100 umol/meter^2/sec. “umol” is pronounced “micro mole” and if you remember back to your high school chemistry classes the mole is Avogadro's number of 6*10^23. This makes one umol 6*10^17 photons and this unit is used quite often in photo biology. How far will that 100 umol/meter^2/sec of light get you? Well, to put it into perspective, full sunlight is 2000 umol/meter^2/sec (2000 umol per square meter per second), the photo saturation point for many food crops is around 1000 umol/meter^2/sec and most food crops thrive at 500 umol/meter^2/sec especially in flowering. The answer for the 100 watt LED light at an intensity of 500 umol/meter^2/sec is roughly two square feet. The 100 watt LED lamp can definitely grow in a larger area but the rate of photosynthesis will proportionally go down. I'll put my flame suit on now, some people are not going to be happy with this paragraph!


Well wait a second! What about these manufacturers claims about LEDs being 2, 4, 10, 20 (heck, pick your number, they're all over the place!) times more efficient than high pressure sodium lights? Here's the big reality check, if you get nothing else out of this just remember this: there is no peer reviewed research paper backing these claims up. NASA has done extensive research, universities and private contractors working under Small Business Innovative Research contracts have done extensive research, yet not a single paper, not one, backs the claims that LED grow light manufacturers make about their lights and my 18 months in playing with LED grow lights also does not back these claims up. If you are a large grower about to drop thousands of dollars on LEDs please, I urge you, ask the LED grow light manufacturer to refer you to a peer reviewed paper that demonstrates the validity of their claims before making the purchase. If the manufacturer can not give you a link to a peer reviewed research paper then you need to ask why this is. LEDs have been well studied, where's the independent peer reviewed evidence showing how much better they are?

Some LED grow light manufacturers will perhaps show a tray of lettuce and saying look, my 100 watts of LEDs grows as good as 400 watts of high pressure sodium light. Look at the results! This is hardly credible and I've seen flaws in every demonstration shown. Furthermore, in science we have what's called the scientific method and part of the scientific method is independent third party testing. This testing needs to be open and non biased. The testing done by NASA and a few universities clearly shows that 100 watts of LEDs in no ways compares to 400 watts of high pressure sodium. Not even close. In addition to no credible evidence to back up these hyped up claims, you need to watch out for anecdotes and customer testimonies. You should never get anecdotes and testimonies confused with evidence, indeed, anecdotes are the antithesis of science.

The LER of an HPS is somewhere around 350 and the LER of the Cree CXA and Bridgelux Vero chips are a tad bit higher 380 or so. [Courtesy of Cree]

The top HPS emits about 110-120 lumens/per watt, puts out about 12-1700 umol's @ 18"'s and overall is a bout 33-35% efficient. When considering a LER of 350.

Now the Cree's can put upwards of 160-170 lumens per watt and are well over 45% efficient sometimes as high as 50% in a white led light. When considering a LER of 380.

LED is certainly a replacer of HID lighting. Is it stomping it into the ground yet? No, but things have only just begun to pick up.......

A real quantifying number would be umol/s per joule, to compare against all light sources to compare PAR.



By the way, the graph being shown by DR Young is incomplete at best. Only the best number @ top dead center is being shown. Why is that?


I am not here to destroy the thread, I am here to destroy the lies. Civility aside.

LED's certainly are NOT being questioned. Saving 7% electricity for maybe the same efficiency as HID isn't "saving lots".

Now saving 7-10% on electricity while using top bin Cree white Cob's and increasing your efficiency by 15-20%, that could save you a bit.