Which strain most suitable for micro?

[timmur]

Hi All,

I'm a newb to growing and to this forum. I started a thread over in the micro section titled, "High-Pod Mini" and in it I've outlined plans to build a smaller version of the original high-pod. The reason I'm posting over here is that I have great interest in growing Zamaldelica, Malawi, Bangi Haze, or Golden Tiger. If I build the high-pod mini I will be constrained in overall height to about 15 inches. My question is simply this: of strains mentioned above, which one or ones would have the least stretch and be most suitable for this kind of micro grow? Thanks in advance for any feedback from experienced growers.

 

[dubi]

Welcome timmur

Nepal Jam, Bangi Haze, Orient Express compact phenos, Congo fem, Violeta can be grown easily in small indoors and of course the more indica genetics too, strains like: PCK, China Yunnan, Fatty Bubba, etc ....

Other more sativa and vigorous strains like Malawi, Panama or Golden Tiger need more space and you would need to limit the size of the pot to avoid they overgrow your small indoor room. In your conditions it's better to work with clones, anyway don't let them veg for too long.

I would recommend you to check rüdiger's thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=280913

His work is a real inspiration to all the growers growing sativas in mini indoors.

Let me know if you have any other doubt! Kind regards.

 

[Dropped Cat]

Zamaldelica regular, grown in a six ounce coco hempy, from a cutting.

Flowered for 110 days, yield about 3.5 grams.

It's do able, but takes time and patience.

 

[timmur]

@dubi
Thanks for the feedback. It is as I feared; the strains I'm most interested in growing don't really lend themselves to a micro grow. Not to say that it can't be done, but it sounds like it will be a challenge.

I checked out rüdiger's thread and it's too bad you can't see any of the pics anymore. I would love to ask him some questions, but he seems to have disappeared. It seems that he was able to manage micro sativas quite well!

@Dropped Cat
Thanks for posting the pic of your Zamaldelica. I had already found it while researching micro sativa grows.

How tall was she in that pic?

 

[2000pm]

I just ran zamaldelica (and some others like destroyer and nepjam) and had little trouble keeping them small. I have found my lighting and setup (pll+led) to keep most plant heights short from reported stretch rates and I am confident that banghi haze will also be doable in the same setup and in fact will be running it in my next pop. Granted my plants weren't the healthiest as I did not understand the feeding requirements of these plants well but with lst, tiedowns and topping it should be doable. You might find it advantageous to start from clone instead of seed to have a mature plant of shorter stature to begin.

 

[timmur]

C2000pm, did you keep of a log of the zamaldelica and the others? Thanks for the input. Unfortunately I don't have access to clones of the strains I'm interested growing.

 

[satva]

Nepal Jam, Bangi Haze, Orient Express compact phenos,

How does the effect of Tikal compare to Nepal Jam, Bangi Haze, Orient Express? I've always liked the effect of marijuana from the Mexican Highlands. I like Chimera's Highland Mexican, CBG Destroyer and Pakistani Chitral Kush, and the hazey phenos of Mango Haze. Mango Haze is softer than Destroyer and Highland Mexican / Blueberry. I'm trying to introduce DJ Shorts F13 into the mix, but I can't get the F13 seeds and seedlings to grow. Two more seeds and then I'll give up trying to grow F13. I like the idea of mixing ACE / CBG genetics with Mango Haze or DJ shorts Blueberry sativas. From what I see, the Blueberry in Highland Mexican / Blueberry (HMBB) is a Blueberry sativa. The HMBB 14 weeks and Destroyer (17 weeks) flowers are wispy and challenging for a micro grow. The effect of HMBB and Destroyer is sativa enough for me, so I'm looking to soften the high. I'm growing a Mango Haze / HMBB and Destroyer / PCK all micro in small pots. They're mostly outdoors during the day this Colorado summer.

Tikal plants look similar to what I'm growing, the indica leaning Oriental Express and indica leaning NepJam are foreign to me. I selected a thin leaf Mango Haze pheno 17 weeks) that I like the energy and effect have a nice flow.

 

[dubi]

Hi satva,

Tikal effect is indeed like a very good old mexican: funny, active and clear, sometimes a bit trippy too. I also like the idea of crossing our genetics with DJ's strains or with a good Mango Haze.

 

[de145]

I don't know what a high pod mini is but I can tell you from personal experience that you can grow just about any plant under LED in a very short space because I do it all the time including many Ace strains including some of the most stretchy which for me are the Congo and the Bangi Haze though Panama is close behind.

The secret is a modular SCROG system where you attach a screen above a pot with room to reach under and you train it to stay under the screen in veg and when you have enough bud sites under the screen you flip it to 12/12 and lots of tips will grow up out of the screen gaining height for about 2 weeks which in my case is usually around 6 inches maximum, I shoot for 3 inches though because really only the very tips are the best when growing under LED, the rest is trimmed away as early as possible to direct all energy to the tips.

If you try to grow a stretchy sativa in a short space without scrogging or some kind of similar training you are completely wasting your time as you will be constantly fighting the plant instead of working with it.

The reason for a modular scrog attached to each pot is that in a tight space you can easily remove them for watering, inspection etc. Not hard to do, just get a screen, attach 3 or 4 "poles" of some kind to the pot that are high enough to reach between the screen and the pot for trimming and watering and just attach the screen to the poles with zip ties or twist ties or string.

To accomplish this, keep the temps as low as possible, in the 24c temp range and lower they stretch far less, also veg under very close, bright lights to keep internode distance short and finally do not feed very much nitrogen at all. I use bloom nutes when vegging stretchy sativas (maxibloom) which makes a huge difference as well.

In short I don't believe there is any plant you can't grow in a tiny area as long as you take care and do it right with a scrog and low nitrogen nutes and close lights.

I've even grown a wild sativa I got from world of seeds this way, it was actually the inspiration for the whole system. My first try I tried to bind the roots with a really small half cup size pot made out of a water bottle bottom and it stretched about 5 feet high anyway! Root binding is ineffective for taming stretchy sativas.

Also be very careful about when to harvest, I have a definite suspicion that most people are letting their sativas go *way* too long, the ACE estimates are nearly always way beyond what I find the optimum harvest date is, some of the strains they list as 12 weeks are definitely done in 7-8 weeks for me like Panama. Rule of thumb after trying about everything out is the old hippie method of 50% dead pistils of ideal harvest date. After that you're just getting CBN which is crappy and very unsativa like in effect.

There is a very good thread in this forum about optimal harvest times that I started but tons of smart people who love Ace sativas also weighed in on.

In my early days I literally threw out strains that I grew exactly to the ACE listed weeks despite them looking very spent, hairs all dead, trichomes bent over and shrivelled and turning brown and had that terrible bland CBN breakdown high only to try them again later once I knew to watch the plant and the difference is astounding, the same crappy strain I threw out turned out to be powerful, very up and psychedelic and one of my all time favourite strains (Congo).

You owe it to yourself and your investment to test harvest small samples from as early as week 6 onwards.

 

[Dropped Cat]

@Dropped Cat
Thanks for posting the pic of your Zamaldelica. I had already found it while researching micro sativa grows.

How tall was she in that pic?

That plant probably peaked at 15 or 16 inches.

 

[timmur]

@de145
Thanks for the advice. I think I have a good handle on what it will take to grow some Ace strains in my micro grow setup.

@Dropped Cat
Thanks. It was a little taller than it looked.

 

[Waldgeist]

I would recommend to flower from matured cuttings.
Then, most strains can be restricted in height by the amount(health!) of rootmass and fertilizer that is applied to it.

Apical dominance/stretch of a non matured cutting is hard to get in control with something like a long flowering Malawi.

 

[timmur]

Thanks Waldgeist. I plan to grow from seed, select a mother, and then grow from clone based on advice from everyone.

 

[yesum]

When I grew Panama Red it stretched 2x. I used LED real close to the plants.

Currently I am finishing 2 strains that stretched 3x and had to supercrop them and in flower I tied them down so they were half their height if that much even.

If you are not afraid to bend the stems, you can grow anything in a small area.

 

[timmur]

Thanks yesum. I'm a lot less nervous now that I changed my grow cabinet design to something a little taller. Dubi or anybody else, any issue growing Zamaldelica in this DWC setup? See the last post in this thread for an update on my design changes to the grow cabinet. The cabinet is 16" x 16" x 65" but with the height of the DWC setup I'll have about 48" of height to deal with. I still have one more light to install on the door, get it wired up, and figure out ventilation. It should offer plent of light. I'm also wondering if I should change out the 6500k bulbs for these 3000k ones that I ordered when it comes time to flower. I have read that some people run a mix and others change them all.

Currently I am finishing 2 strains that stretched 3x and had to supercrop them and in flower I tied them down so they were half their height if that much even.

Yesum, were the ones that stretched 3x grown under LED (close)? I'm really hoping that stretch will be minimized by having vertical, 360 degree light available. I also plan to keep the temperature at night about 3-4 degrees warmer than the day temperature as I've read that it will reduce stretch.

 

[yesum]

Yea, the 3x were under close LED but still. I use side lights in addition the overhead LED and the shoots go sideways or wherever the light comes from. I think sidelights will shorten them.

Rudiger, a guest here on the ACE forum has a technique of bending the main stem of the plant at a 45 angle, to the right and then the next one up the stem goes to the left. Think zigzag. Secure the angles you have created with garden wire spiraled around the stem. I will just try to secure them with tape first when I try it.

He seems to have taken down his pics, security thing? If you can visualize it, it is a bend to the right and then left, every 5 or so inches up the main stem.

My method requires lateral space for the plant to be laid over to one side. I will try rudiger's method next grow.

 

[Waldgeist]

Thanks yesum. I'm a lot less nervous now that I changed my grow cabinet design to something a little taller. Dubi or anybody else, any issue growing Zamaldelica in this DWC setup? See the last post in this thread for an update on my design changes to the grow cabinet. The cabinet is 16" x 16" x 65" but with the height of the DWC setup I'll have about 48" of height to deal with. I still have one more light to install on the door, get it wired up, and figure out ventilation. It should offer plent of light. I'm also wondering if I should change out the 6500k bulbs for these 3000k ones that I ordered when it comes time to flower. I have read that some people run a mix and others change them all.

very nice cab! I can't contribute any experience with ACE strains and DWC setups.

Yesum, were the ones that stretched 3x grown under LED (close)? I'm really hoping that stretch will be minimized by having vertical, 360 degree light available. I also plan to keep the temperature at night about 3-4 degrees warmer than the day temperature as I've read that it will reduce stretch.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=55514&pictureid=1295442View Image

Yea, the 3x were under close LED but still. I use side lights in addition the overhead LED and the shoots go sideways or wherever the light comes from. I think sidelights will shorten them.

Rudiger, a guest here on the ACE forum has a technique of bending the main stem of the plant at a 45 angle, to the right and then the next one up the stem goes to the left. Think zigzag. Secure the angles you have created with garden wire spiraled around the stem. I will just try to secure them with tape first when I try it.

He seems to have taken down his pics, security thing? If you can visualize it, it is a bend to the right and then left, every 5 or so inches up the main stem.

Thats me, rüdiger, I mean
I'll show you another bondage soon

My method requires lateral space for the plant to be laid over to one side. I will try rudiger's method next grow.

 

[Waldgeist]

old pic

 

[de145]

I'm really hoping that stretch will be minimized by having vertical, 360 degree light available. I also plan to keep the temperature at night about 3-4 degrees warmer than the day temperature as I've read that it will reduce stretch.

Do what you like but that temperature thing suggested sounds like absolutely terrible advice; you do *not* want to fight the plants own nature, you will lose every time.

I have tried supplemental side lighting, has no effect on stretch whatsoever and just makes for a very hokey arrangement where you try to get more buds on the sides but not burn them etc. Pain in the butt.

Root binding by deliberately growing in a small container does *not* limit height to any meaningful degree in a small space, anyone suggesting it has never really tried it or their results were due to some other factor, I could trot out a lot of pictures of sativas about 5 feet high in a 250ml sized (1 cup) pot. Disregard that advice or try it yourself to see if you have the time.

Limiting feed to just enough and always avoiding too much nitrogen *will* make a big difference, that's your primary thing to dial in and you really really need to get proficient at that. Consider never feeding them "veg" food but only bloom formula food.

Do yourself a favor and learn how to scrog properly and you will be a very happy camper, nothing in my experience and many others compares, it give better yields in small spaces, easier to deal with the plants, more efficient use of lighting etc. It's a pain to learn how to do it properly but very much worth it.

Or do what I did and try every other conceivable method first until you realize you're just fighting the plant's own nature and scrog anyway. Your choice!

 

[timmur]

Do what you like but that temperature thing suggested sounds like absolutely terrible advice; you do *not* want to fight the plants own nature, you will lose every time.

Ok, but the temperature dif is based on published research. Thanks for the advice though as real world experience can trump published research.