Minions of the Dark

[SG1]

I just don't want to be a pest posting pics everyday haha
I see them changing daily .

Nah Man!
You do more than your share.
Everyone got busy I guess.
Even the other site is slow (read all 45 pages)
Just that time of the year.

 

[HillBilly1]

Yeah I don't post in the MOD thread much there anymore
Cause it still kinda burns my ass... Enough of that

After season you will see lots of SG Gear grown by me

Going to run 2 bloom rooms and 1 larger Veg Going to be testing
Lots of yours haha ruff job but some fatoldbrokdownman should have
Nothing else to do but burn some power haha. Then I will be messing
With some Hillbilly crosses working on a few this year already planing
And ploting haha. Next new one I want is a Badass OG / Chem have done
A cross or 2 already but have so many OGs to work in to 1 Bad Girl and
3-4 good crosses

Hope you all enjoyed your Father's Day

 

[SG1]

Yeah I don't post in the MOD thread much there anymore
Cause it still kinda burns my ass... Enough of that

After season you will see lots of SG Gear grown by me

Going to run 2 bloom rooms and 1 larger Veg Going to be testing
Lots of yours haha ruff job but some fatoldbrokdownman should have
Nothing else to do but burn some power haha. Then I will be messing
With some Hillbilly crosses working on a few this year already planing
And ploting haha. Next new one I want is a Badass OG / Chem have done
A cross or 2 already but have so many OGs to work in to 1 Bad Girl and
3-4 good crosses

Hope you all enjoyed your Father's Day

I think the Grape stomper x OG seeds I'm getting will have some wicked phenos.
You got straight grape stompers and between the 2 of us, should get nice stock.
If you get some hot OG seed, luv to do some swapping.
Kinda think we'll be doing that for a while.
Kosher kush fems are gonna need a daddy too.


I really like the way Grape ape is looking outdoors.
She's getting big fast.
Waiting for the sun to come out for an outdoor update.
Hope for no preflowering due to cloudy days.
Farming can suck sometimes

 

[Seaf0ur]

I just picked up a cut of Ron Burgundy... All I know is its a 100% Indica cross of four Northern California Purples... I saw one flowering out and it had a very sweet fruity aroma kinda like blackberry jam... bout to try out a sample I got with the clone, but I already think this one has good potential for mixing.

 

[HillBilly1]

My Little Dark Ones

Pic#1 K1 Before beat down

Pic#2 K1 After Beat down HAHA

Pic#3 Pimp Daddy

Pic#4 K2

Pic#5 BCD

 

[PakaloloFromPNW]

Chose your cuttings wisely...

Chose your cuttings wisely...

I've been trying out something that SG1 said about the mutation in the Goblin line and how to mitigate them. He said that even with a mutated plant if you selected a branch that looked normal you could correct the mutation. Or at least that's what I remember.

I popped a Goblin Queen seed and found a girl who had mutated leaves. They were twisted, deformed and part of them just dried up. It wasn't the whole plant so I let her grow until today. Today I cut her down. Here is what she looked like with the leaf mutation.

Mutated Goblin Queen

You can see that not all leaves have a mutation but many do. So I picked what I considered a normal branch for my cutting. This is the daughter of the mutated GQ.

GQ daughter

The daughter looks perfectly normal and healthy. So don't kill those mutated Goblins. You might be able to find a normal branch.

 

[SG1]

I've been trying out something that SG1 said about the mutation in the Goblin line and how to mitigate them. He said that even with a mutated plant if you selected a branch that looked normal you could correct the mutation. Or at least that's what I remember.

I popped a Goblin Queen seed and found a girl who had mutated leaves. They were twisted, deformed and part of them just dried up. It wasn't the whole plant so I let her grow until today. Today I cut her down. Here is what she looked like with the leaf mutation.

Mutated Goblin Queen
View Image

You can see that not all leaves have a mutation but many do. So I picked what I considered a normal branch for my cutting. This is the daughter of the mutated GQ.

GQ daughter
View Image

The daughter looks perfectly normal and healthy. So don't kill those mutated Goblins. You might be able to find a normal branch.

Kind of blows the suspected TMV (tobacco mosaic virus) of the picture.
I've also discussed the subject with RD.

Here's what I learned of the goblin mutations.
It is a form of mosaic virus, called Sunn-Hemp mosaic virus.
Here's the differences.
1. TMV is contagious to other plants, SHMV is non contagious.
2. TMV has never been proven to infect it's host's seeds, while SHMV can be passed to seeds.
3. TMV infects entire plant systemically, SHMV affects a plant in degrees, from slight to rampant.
So in a nutsack, TMV is a disease, and SHMV is a genetic mutation.

Some folks really don't know that your 2 GG are from the same plant.
Being a teacher, I wanted to show you the defects with cuttings.
1 with variegations and 1 clean, same plant.
Both stayed true to itself and grew into 2 distinctively different plants with the same exact genes.

The GQ's are extreme, and some seeds never show a single non-mutated branch.
These get destroyed.
Only 2 of my GQ's were mutation free, yet the cuts of the rest are 95% mutation free.
Next round 100% clean.

I'm glad you shared your results of the testing.
Good info, first hand, rules without doubt.

Thanks for your consistent participation.

 

[SG1]

My Little Dark Ones

Pic#1 K1 Before beat down

Pic#2 K1 After Beat down HAHA

Pic#3 Pimp Daddy

Pic#4 K2

Pic#5 BCD

Always a pleasure seeing you gals.
Never a real problem child in the yard.
Bright sunny gold falling from the sky, free to all
Thanks for helping keep the thread alive.

 

[PakaloloFromPNW]

The Goblin Girls are sisters but they looked different.

Variegated GG

Her sister

Her daughter

I had to take down the Original Halo at 50 days. I'm thinking this was early but I'm not sure how long it normally takes. I figured from looking at her it would be a couple of more weeks. I didn't want to let the PM spread beyond the tiny speck.

I was checking to see if she was ready to be trimmed but not quite yet. I decided to grab a couple of lower buds and roll a joint. I don't know how to describe the smell but it is kind of like diesel or maybe something else. Smoking it I get a similar taste as the smell.

After smoking that joint I was glad I didn't have to drive anywhere. I won't even try. The effects washed over me like waves. I'm glad I didn't stop this line. It is a keeper for sure.

Thanks for that information about Sunn-Hemp mosaic virus. So SHMV was passed on in the seed from which Goblin Girl grew. SHMV effects the plant differently and the variegated cutting was more rampant. It won't infest other plants and it is genetic mutation. Good to know.

 

[3Deez]

My Noc seems to have put on some frost over night. I swear I was just in there last night and didn't see this. The fruity berry smell is also there.

 

[SG1]

My Noc seems to have put on some frost over night. I swear I was just in there last night and didn't see this. The fruity berry smell is also there.

mmmmmm Nocs are yummy

Nice!

 

[Seaf0ur]

Kind of blows the suspected TMV (tobacco mosaic virus) of the picture.
I've also discussed the subject with RD.

Here's what I learned of the goblin mutations.
It is a form of mosaic virus, called Sunn-Hemp mosaic virus.
Here's the differences.
1. TMV is contagious to other plants, SHMV is non contagious.
2. TMV has never been proven to infect it's host's seeds, while SHMV can be passed to seeds.
3. TMV infects entire plant systemically, SHMV affects a plant in degrees, from slight to rampant.
So in a nutsack, TMV is a disease, and SHMV is a genetic mutation.

Some folks really don't know that your 2 GG are from the same plant.
Being a teacher, I wanted to show you the defects with cuttings.
1 with variegations and 1 clean, same plant.
Both stayed true to itself and grew into 2 distinctively different plants with the same exact genes.

The GQ's are extreme, and some seeds never show a single non-mutated branch.
These get destroyed.
Only 2 of my GQ's were mutation free, yet the cuts of the rest are 95% mutation free.
Next round 100% clean.

I'm glad you shared your results of the testing.
Good info, first hand, rules without doubt.

Thanks for your consistent participation.

Mine had a grey/green variegation, which i do not think is the Sunn-hemp mosaic virus... here's why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunn-hemp_mosaic_virus

Sunn-hemp mosaic virus (SHMV) is a pathogenic plant virus. It is known by many names, including bean strain of tobacco mosaic virus and Sunn-hemp rosette virus. SHMV is an intracellular parasite that infects plants. It can be seen only through an electron microscope. It is a positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus that causes physical characteristics of spotting and/or discoloration.

This is a parasitic virus, not a mutation.... which is what I think GG has, a natural mutation....

further....

Infected crops transmit the virus in a number of ways, but in most cases transmittal requires physical contact. This mean that touching an infected plant, then touching a healthy plant could cause the healthy plant to contract the virus. Using tools to trim an infected plant, then using them on a healthy plant without sterilizing them between uses can result in the transmission of the virus. The virus should be treated like it is airborne since an insect can transmit the virus, from plant to plant, just by flying around and making contact between plants. Hemp mosaic virus is particularly resilient and can infect the soil through the winter and into the following growing seasons for years.

I've never cleaned my scissors.... ok, maybe rarely, but I've never spread the variegation to another plant or other parts of itself... I also re-use soil without even digging up the rootball.... again, no transmission of the "virus"...

to finish:

The hemp mosaic virus infects plants of the Cannabis genus. The virus causes cellular mutations, stunted growth, damages plants photosynthesis ability, and more. Cellular mutations usually manifest as discoloration and misshapen leaves. Discoloration usually manifests as yellow or grey mottling that can form a spotted, mosaic, or streak pattern. Misshapen leaves can be the result of damage to the plants at a cellular level, making them appear contorted and/or twisted. The stunted growth can cause a tremendous amount of crop loss due to lower than normal yields. Loses of 25% of flower production or more have been widely observed and reported.

I dont see any of the "severe distortion" associated with SHMV... just the opposite, pak's leaves are normal sized and perfect.... I am almost certain the variegation is a genetic abnormality.... I would expect to see at least some leaves looking like a dandelion weed GQ if it were in fact SHMV, as well as the trait being passed to other strains.

More on SHMV

Cross-protection between Sunn-hemp Mosaic and Tobacco Mosaic Viruses
By THOMAS M. ZINNEN*i" AND ROBERT W. FULTON
Department of Plant Pathology, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, Wisconsin 53706 (PDF)

 

[SG1]

GG's mutations aren't textbook, that's for sure.
Matter of fact, never seen it anywhere else.
Never ran into anything like it until I bred it.

All my GG mutants grow normally, except for the variegations.
Something for science to study, eh?

GQ's on the other hand, do not grow normally, and are quite affected.
The only salvation is that normal cuts taken, propagate into normal plants.
Another unknown genetic oddity for science.

Thanks for the additional info Sea.
Your contribution to this thread is appreciated.

 

[Seaf0ur]

I did a bunch of research the second I heard the name of a virus I hadn't before....

Plant Viruses Online
Descriptions and Lists from the VIDE Database
Sunn-hemp mosaic tobamovirus

Symptoms. systemic mosaic, mottling, stunting.... some plants experience necrotic or chlorotic local lesions; systemic mosaic and vein yellowing.... Cannabis is not specifically mentioned here...

I found this shot of what was determined to be a natural mutation and not disease related

not only was the plant healthy, she offered up some of the finest meds ive had to date. may she r.i.p.

Its in a thread relating to ChemD and its occasional leaf variegation...

I get this same thing in a pheno of C99 BX1. I have observed it for over a year now while it grows alongside many other strains and nothing is affected. I share trimmers with other plants and still no spread. The variegation remains consistent like in that picture while the plant stays healthy. I thought it was broad mites and it is not that either. This is genetic in my opinion and not tobacco/hemp mv. If is indeed genetic it makes me wonder, what other strains is this observed in? ChemD, and I can claim C99bx. Btw, the plant with this variegation is a large yielder and blew the other c99bx expressions out of the water.

I think c99 can be seen as an mg whore. ca/mg go hand in hand so "ca/mg whore".

I think Chem D's variegation is a genetic abnormality, not certain, but that's what I think it is.

I was once a wholesale supervisor at one of America's largest plant nurseries... where I was privy to a fact or two about plants... One fact that may help in this argument pertains to how variegated nursery plants are found, collected and propagated so that they remain variegated.

Here is a for instance... Let's say you have 10,000 spirea plants grown from seed, all are expected to be the regular green color, however, one of them has a single branch with a pretty variegation. If you take a clone from that variegated branch, all the clones from that point on will be variegated to some degree. So I believe this may very well be what happened with Chem D. The original cut was taken from a branch that had this tendency... the kicker is... this tendency may not have even shown up for several generations because it could have been a trait that only showed with time (genetic maturity).

I say this with a degree of certainty, however, unless someone has the clone's dna tested and somehow can confirm or deny the presence of TMV... no one can be sure.

What I AM sure of is... the condition causes some leaf necrosis, which I care not at all about. Also, I have NEVER seen it spread to another plant, and the way TMV attacks tobacco leaves seems COMPLETELY different from the patterns of variegation showing up on Chem D.

cc

somatic mutation

plant chimera

variegated-–adjective
1. varied in appearance or color; marked with patches or spots of different colors.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Chimera

In modern botanical usage a chimera is a plant consisting of two or more genetically distinct kinds of cells. Chimeras can arise either by a mutation in a cell in some part of the plant where cells divide or by bringing together two different plants so that their cells multiply side by side to produce a single individual. They are studied not only because they are interesting freaks or ornamental, but also because they help in the understanding of many of the developmental features of plants that would otherwise be difficult to investigate.

The first type of chimera to be used in this way resulted from grafting. Occasionally a bud forms at the junction of the scion and stock incorporating cells from both, and it sometimes happens that the cells arrange themselves so that shoots derived from the bud will contain cells from both plants forever.

Flowering plants have growing points (apical meristems) where the outer cells are arranged in layers parallel to the surface. This periclinal layering is due to the fact that the outer cells divide only anticlinally, that is, by walls perpendicular to the surface of the growing point. In many plants there are two such tunica layers and, because cell divisions are confined to the anticlinal planes, each layer remains discrete from the other and from the underlying nonlayered tissue called the corpus. The epidermis of leaves, stems, and petals is derived from the outer layer of the growing point. See Apical meristem

With a periclinal chimera it is possible to trace into stems, leaves, and flowers which tissues are derived from each layer in the growing point. For leaves, this can also be done with variegated chimeras where the genetic difference between the cells rests in the plastids resulting from mutation whose effect is to prevent the synthesis of chlorophyll. Tracts of cells whose plastids lack this pigment appear white or yellow. A common form of variegated chimera has leaves with white margins and a green center (see illustration). The white margin is derived from the second layer of the tunica, and the green center is derived from inner cells of the growing point. The white leaf tissue overlies the green in the center of the leaf, but does not mask the green color. Chimeras with green leaf margins and white centers are usually due to a genetically green tunica proliferating abnormally at the leaf margin in an otherwise white leaf.

Since the somatic mutation that initiates chimeras would normally occur in a single cell of a growing point or embryo, it often happens that it is propagated into a tract of mutant cells to form a sector of the plant. If the mutation resulted in a failure to form green pigment, the tract would be seen as a white stripe. Such chimeras are called sectorial, but they are normally unstable because there is no mechanism to isolate the mutant sector and, in the flux that occurs in a meristem of growing and dividing cells, one or other of the two sorts of cells takes over its self-perpetuating layer in the growing point. The sectorial chimera therefore becomes nonchimerical or else a periclinal chimera.

However, in one class of chimera an isolating mechanism can stabilize the sectorial arrangement. This propagates stripes of mutant tissue into the shoot, but because the tunica and corpus are discrete from each other, the plant is not fully sectored and is called a mericlinal chimera. Many chimeras of this type have a single tunica layer; those with green and white stripes in the leaves have the mutant cells in sectors of the corpus. They are always plants with leaves in two ranks, and consequently the lateral growth of the growing point occurs by cell expansion only in the plane connecting alternate leaves. This results in the longitudinal divisions of the corpus cells being confined to planes at right angles to the plane containing the leaves. A mutation in one cell therefore can result in a vertical sheet of mutant cells which, in the case of plastid defect, manifests itself as a white stripe in every future leaf.

The growing points of roots may also become chimerical, but in roots there is no mechanism to isolate genetically different tissues as there is in shoots, and so chimeras are unstable.

Since the general acceptance of the existence of organisms with genetically diverse cells, many cultivated plants have been found to be chimeras. Flecks of color often indicate the chimerical nature of such plants. Color changes in potato tubers occur similarly because the plants are periclinal chimeras. See Somatic cell genetics

A virus would be impossible for me to contain in shared pots.... I'm certain its gotta be a genetic abnormality.... unless it spreads to some other strain that is....

 

[SG1]

I never sterilize, do poor grow room housekeeping, share scissors among plants, etc-etc.
Never has the mutations spread, besides breedings from affected plants and through seed.

Be as it may, it is very controllable and can be deselected in cuttings.
Goblins are some ugly funkers, strain true to its name.
More great info.
Makes you wonder what folks would think about my heavy GQ mutations.
Freak out most people for sure.

 

[HillBilly1]

Always a pleasure seeing you gals.
Never a real problem child in the yard.
Bright sunny gold falling from the sky, free to all
Thanks for helping keep the thread alive.

Well thank you kind Sir, Its always a pleasure and thanks for the kind words again..

 

[Seaf0ur]

Same here... I only sweep enough to keep splinters out of my bare feet... and I've certainly not sterilized anything...

 

[MrTea]

Same here... I only sweep enough to keep splinters out of my bare feet... and I've certainly not sterilized anything...

Sterilization is for doctors. I use dirty equipment across the board

 

[Seaf0ur]

Well, my Glue is pollinated with the Goblin Girl... gonna hit her again tomorrow. see what comes out. She's about 2 weeks from pistols.... I dont know, somethin like that

 

[Seaf0ur]

This MCD has shot up past the PDP thats at least a week older... One leaf is twice the size as the other.... one PDP is still a taproot.... the reg one aint dead, but aint moved either

And my Fuckin Incredible is almost finished up with the Goblin Girl x FI seeds... lookin nice...