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Short term trades in the stock market •$$$$$•

Hydrosun

I love my life
Veteran
No SG is telling all of us not to be in paper. Cash will be worthless at some point. Gold, sliver, and property will never be worthless.

:joint:
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Gold, sliver, and property will never be worthless.
That's the overall strategy. Not to say stocks weren't good investments for a couple of generations, but the crisis in confidence happening now has already and will continue to change that paradigm. The paper game is on it's way out.

I'm not necessarily saying don't be in physical fiat short term. I think it's crazy to have money in a publicly traded bank right now. I reckon the same thing is happening now as happened in 2008-2009 (QEI, QE1.5) and almost 2010 (QEII). IMO this market crisis that's starting now will set up QEIII. Europe's banking sector is imploding due to it's exposure to bad sovereign debt. They are in the midst of a liquidity crisis and trying to come up with a way to backstop (bailout) the banks this weekend (TARP 2.0 or outright monetization). Short selling is banned. The markets are completely broken and the professionals know it.

I think this perfect storm is worse than 2008 because the banks are failing because of failed sovereign debt. Not just real estate. Failed states. This storm will reek carnage throughout the markets. Banks fail again due to systemic risk and contagion. Prices of everything should plummet. Possible banking holidays. BUY THE FUCKING DIP HERE.

At this point the Central bank will use their last bullet (QEIII). Outright monetization of everything. This is the fatal bullet. The suicide round. It's the road governments always, always, always take.

What happens after that is anyone's guess. What happens after you commit suicide?
 

Dislexus

the shit spoon
Veteran
After you metaphorically commit suicide? Ya figuratively go to hell!

Our corporatist toxic dystopic sprawl may collapse into a post-apocalyptic road warrior anarchy with the larger metropolitan areas become city-states constantly manuevering against eachother like Classical Greece, each controlled and peace kept by a police state of monied interests that will naturally rise.

Just a further iteration of our current society as centralized power deteriorates.

Pick a rural county somewhere to set up a secure defensible power base. A utopia of citizen-farmer-soldiers to export to the bandit fiefdoms and megacorp enclaves. In the meantime take over the entire local political structure to ease this transition when the time comes.

Would make an awesome movie.
 
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CascadeFarmer

I'm not necessarily saying don't be in physical fiat short term. I think it's crazy to have money in a publicly traded bank right now.
I remember when Washington Mutual was having all kinds of problems and finally decided to take my money out and ended up being the day before they got sold. Chase kept sending me offers to open my account back up again so took $200 in incentives from them and after the time period ended closed my account...lol. No way was gonna support their shenanigans so went with a solid local bank.

Gramps has got a great plan IMO. Of course he knows the long term value of paper money. Do you really think he's gonna fill his safe with paper and watch it collect dust? He's not an idiot...jeez. Yeah at some point you'll think nothing about wiping your ass with it. That day is not tomorrow, next week or next month IMO. Reminds me of the picture from Germany where someone was pushing around a wheelbarrow full of deutschmarks.

I think this perfect storm is worse than 2008 because the banks are failing because of failed sovereign debt. Not just real estate. Failed states.
Yup and talking about failed states the budget cutbacks with the current deal will hurt US states that are already struggling.
 
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CascadeFarmer

Please enlighten us all about what we should buy with our stacks of useless paper money.
I didn't say it was useless...you did. I said it would soon be worthless and still believe that. My cash is in the local bank and I sleep just fine.

As for your statement that most 'trades' are in options that's laughable.

In my opinion, "Trading", in reference to financial instruments, has come to mean buying and selling things based on potential relatively small moves over a very short span of time.
What's a 'relatively small move' and what is a 'very short span of time'? Like I said before I'd seriously like to know how you define that. Where is the line between 'trading' and whatever else it is that you call something other than 'trading'?
 

Sam the Caveman

Good'n Greasy
Veteran
What's a 'relatively small move' and what is a 'very short span of time'? Like I said before I'd seriously like to know how you define that. Where is the line between 'trading' and whatever else it is that you call something other than 'trading'?

Even the IRS has a hard time defining that. Investor vs Day Trader, they have some general guidelines, but I don't think everyone fits into those categories.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Those definitions are relative to the perception of the person defining them. To me, if you buy and hold for years at a time I would say you are an investor. Executing any sort of trades would be "trading" IMO.

Here's the French time bomb to keep your eyes on.

At 50x Leverage And 2% Tier 1 Capital, Is SocGen Truly A Paragon Of Balance Sheet Invincibility?
The fact that European banks have just a tad more leverage compared to their US cousins has been well-known for quite some time. One need merely to look at the chart from our February 2010 post to see how American financial institutions stack up relative to European ones as a %-age of host country GDP. This issue came to a very violent head last week when market participants finally realized the painfully obvous, namely that even without direct Greek exposure (and there certainly is a lot of that), SocGen is simply not a viable business model for the long-run courtesy precisely of its tremendous leverage. And unfortunately, while SocGen's CEO was quick to appear on any TV station that would have him and deny rumors of the bank's viability, he had little if anything to say about the bank's actual solvency and leverage. Alas, therein lies the rub. As the attached table created by Jean-Piette Chevalier demonstrates, SocGen is back at the leverage it had back in 2007 at just over 50x. As a reminder, not even Lehman was this bad when it blew up (and that excludes the beneficial boost from Repo 105). In other words, SocGen has a Tier ratio of 2.0%... a number which the bureaucrats at Basel will have no choice but tell the bank must go up. And go up it will... assuming SocGen can issue €84 billion in new capital to pad its equity (on €19 billion of market cap... mmhmmm). Of course, in order to raise capital, SocGen would have to admit that the market was, in fact, correct in its assessment that the bank was undercapitalized, which would then send the stock even lower, and so forth, chicken or egg style. While we doubt any of this is new to the market, we doubt the response will be one of buying euphoria. Luckily, the only thing that can send the price tumbling now is actual selling, as opposed to shorting. And as we all know, nobody could possibly sell stocks: after all it is simply the evil shorters who are responsible for every market collapse in history, never the long idiot money which never did its homework, and suddenly becomes the last bagholder standing and first to bail from what is obviously a disastrously bad investment.

2011.08.14.socgen.leverage.png
Everyone notice how quickly many of the CEOs ran out on CNBC and other major networks to give ponzi pep talks and "reassure" the markets last week? They were nervous. This should subside for a few days. Get so low volume meltup rallies and then come roaring back into the headlines.

Germany is outright refusing to make "Eurobonds" so that the failing states can be bailed out. Because of Weimar their citizenry is more sophisticated on monetary and fiscal issues than kool aid inebriated Joe Six Pack. So that will be a big monkey wrench in Italy's plans coming this week. Emergency meeting between Germany and France Tuesday. Expect a big ponzi pep talk then.
 
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robbiedublu

Member
What's a 'relatively small move' and what is a 'very short span of time'? Like I said before I'd seriously like to know how you define that. Where is the line between 'trading' and whatever else it is that you call something other than 'trading'?

Home » Investing vs. Trading – Which is Right for You?
Give High 5 (0)
Investing vs. Trading – Which is Right for You?

Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006

by Greg Podsakoff

Many people believe investing in the stock market and trading in the stock market are one in the same...and these same people are usually the ones who wonder why they rarely make much (if any) money in the market. These types of people usually invest on hot tips, gut feeling, and try to chase the market after it has already gone up.

The primary difference between trading and investing is your INTENTION. However subtle, this is a massive difference that will create more red ink in your portfolio than almost anything if you don’t understand this difference.

The first step in deciding which method of buying stocks is right for you is to understand the difference between investing and trading.

Investing is when you buy the stock based on solid fundamentals, and hold it for the LONG run. When I say long, it generally means one year or more. You don’t pay much attention to the daily fluctuations of the market, or whether your stock goes up or down a few percent. You have found a company that you believe will become the next Walmart, or Microsoft, and you plan on owning a piece of this company for a long time.

Now, even more importantly, you must ask yourself what it takes to find a stock with good fundamentals! Just because a company has grown 30% each quarter for the last 3 years does NOT necessarily mean it has great underlying fundamentals. You really must be able to read the companies financial statement, analyze the management, compare the industry they are in, and take an active roll in looking into the daily operations.

In other words, review this investment as if it is your own personal company!! If the financials are shaky, or the company growth is slowing or expected to slow, this may not be the best business to INVEST in…

Trading however, is another matter entirely. When someone trades a stock, it is for a SHORT period of time, generally between one day and 6 months. The trader is NOT looking for the next Microsoft, they are just looking for a stock that will move up (or down) a few percent quickly. Traders can and do make money on in an up or down market, and often use TECHNICAL analysis as well as fundamental analysis to profit.

So what does it take to be a good trader? Well, a basic understanding of chart reading and technical analysis should be a prerequisite. A trader will analyze charts, and if everything looks good, then they will look for an upcoming event, such as an earning report or merger announcement, and then pounce on the stock. Once the stock makes its expected move, the trader sells the stock and is out of the market. It is important to note that successful traders generally study the market every day, as they are always looking for “the perfect storm" of a trade.

So, depending on your style and comfort level, you can properly choose the type of investment strategy that works best for you. This will keep you focused on YOUR strategy, and not be distracted by the latest hot tip or other peripheral distraction.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Empire Manufacturing prints at -7.7. Economic contraction continues. This is extremely bullish. Should be good for +1.5-2% low volume meltup on the S&P today. :biglaugh:

Empire Manufacturing Resumes Downward Slide, Misses Consensus, Future Conditions Index At Lowest Since February 2009
The first August leading indicator starts off with a thud, after the Empire State manufacturing index just confirmed that the recent brief push higher was, well, transitory. Printing at -7.72, on expectations of 0.00, down from -3.76, the first diffusion index of the month just saw a third consecutive contractionary print in a row, setting the stage for much more ugliness in August. The summary was succint: "Business conditions continue to deteriorate: "The general business conditions index fell four points to -7.7. The new orders index also fell, inching down to -7.8; the negative reading—the third in a row—indicated that orders had declined. The shipments index held steady at 3.0, a sign that shipments were slightly higher over the month. The unfilled orders index continued to drift down, falling three points to -15.2. The delivery time index was little changed at 0.0. The inventories index dropped two points to -7.6, suggesting that inventory levels were down slightly." What is surprising is not that the current outlook is deteriorating, but that for the first time, the future index finally cracked as the hopium has finally ran out: "The future general business conditions index fell twenty-four points to 8.7, its lowest level since February 2009. The future new orders and shipments indexes dropped to their lowest levels since September 2001." I.e., hope is no more. And there is nothing to take its place.

Aug%20NYFed%20Conditions.jpg
 
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CascadeFarmer

Should be good for +1.5-2% low volume meltup on the S&P today.
I'm liking this little meltup from the recent lows...patiently waiting to pull the trigger again.

As for the 'trading' thing I agree more with Sam and ambiguous. I don't think you can put a time frame on it. To me it's just short and long term trading. To me Investors Business Daily's philosophy and method is the epitome of 'investing' but they also stress technical analysis and let individual stock action dictate buy and sell points but only when the general market is supporting those decisions. The crux of the biscuit is putting money into the best companies but still entry/exit decisions are driven by technical analysis, there's no set time frame and regardless of how 'great' a company is or looks to be down the road there's times to dump it and be in cash. Those days of buy and hold regardless of whatever is going on are over.

We could go on forever...
 
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CascadeFarmer

AUY is looking very strong and not surprised it hasn't pulled back. RIC, another PM mining stock, is looking excellent and probably one of the better technical patterns in that whole group beside AUY. Haven't done a thorough search though. RIC has held up very well. Somewhat of a technical breakout the past few days but violated it's pivot (buy) point a few times intraday.


 
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CascadeFarmer

As for 'trading' options...lol...here's an example of the typical spread you find on more illiquid ones. If you wanted to buy some September 10 calls right now you'd immediately lose 31% just by taking a position at the Ask.



The underlying security, RIC just ticked up some and the Ask is now .75 without the Bid moving so you're looking at a 40% loss at this moment. As a stock moves the implied volatility goes up. If RIC were to flatline for awhile you'd probably lose some money even though the security didn't go anywhere as the volatility dropped.

The above chart was when RIC was at about $9.45.
 
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CascadeFarmer

Here's AUY at about $15.15. You can see all the open interest. A lot more funds in this stock than RIC and the spread is almost the least you'll see in any option. Also nice to have the $1 increments in the strike price.



To enter a call position at a strike of $15 you're looking at an immediate 2.5% loss.
 

Madrus Rose

post 69
Veteran
Setbacks May Push Europe Into a New Downturn
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/b...fronts-for-european-economy.html?ref=business

FRANKFURT — Economists may still be debating whether Europe is headed for a sharp slowdown or even a recession, but Steve Knott, who installs home heating systems in Barrow-in-Furness, a port town in northwest England once known for its iron mills, is convinced he already knows the answer.

Mr. Knott, 53, who runs Furness Heating Components, has cut his work force to 18 people from 25 and said business was tougher than he had ever seen it. “There’s a lot of competition, and people are just not building that many houses anymore,” Mr. Knott said.

Data released on Friday leaves little doubt that the European economy is losing momentum before most countries have even recovered to the level of output they had in 2008, when the recession hit.

But the larger question is whether an increasingly bitter brew of flagging output and a sovereign debt crisis — along with the market downturn — will create something more sinister than a mere slowdown, and lead more businesses to cut jobs and investment as Mr. Knott has.

In France, the second-largest economy in the European Union after Germany, growth came to a standstill in the three months through June, according to official figures. Meanwhile, industrial production in the 17-nation euro area fell 0.7 percent in June compared with May, more than analysts had forecast.

On Tuesday, economists expect a report on euro area economic activity to show that gross domestic product slowed to 0.3 percent in the second quarter, from 0.8 percent in the first three months of the year.

If there is less economic growth, governments will collect less tax revenue. They will have more trouble paying their debts. That could make investors even more nervous and add to turmoil in the stock and bond markets, which will undercut business and consumer confidence, which will lead to yet slower growth, and so on.

“There is a real risk that there is a self-enforcing cycle under way here,” said Martin Lueck, an economist at UBS in Frankfurt.

Mr. Lueck says he believes the most likely prospect is less dire, but even his more optimistic view calls for a brief slowdown on the way to a “new normal” of weaker growth in Europe and the United States. And he acknowledged that, in 2008, many economists underestimated how quickly and severely the financial crisis would spill into the broader economy.

“We learned the hard way,” Mr. Lueck said. “The links between the financial world and the world economy are very strong.”

Another recession is already well under way in Greece and Portugal, while growth in countries like Spain, Italy and Britain has been very slow since last year. But now Germany, which has been remarkably strong, hauling the rest of the Continent along with it, seems to be decelerating. The Ifo Business Climate Index, considered a reliable predictor of German growth, fell in July as executives became less optimistic about exports.

“It is more than a soft patch,” said Eric Chaney, chief economist at a French insurer, the AXA Group. “The business cycle is really coming to a quasi-standstill in Europe.”

Worse-than-expected results from companies like Daimler, Deutsche Bank and Siemens in the last month have reinforced the feeling that Germany’s extraordinary boom is near an end. E.On, Germany’s largest utility, said on Wednesday that it might need to cut as many as 11,000 jobs after experiencing the first loss since it was created a decade ago from a group of state-owned utilities.

E.On attributed the loss chiefly to the government’s decision to force some of the company’s nuclear power plants to close early, but sales declines in foreign markets like Britain and Hungary also played a role.

Even companies that have done well are warning about risks ahead. “The coming months will be challenging for us,” Martin Winterkorn, the chief executive of Volkswagen, said in late July after the carmaker reported that profit more than tripled, to 4.8 billion euros ($6.8 billion).

A big problem for Europe is that domestic demand is weak and growth has become primarily dependent on sales from abroad, where the signals are flashing yellow. The United States, still the largest foreign market for companies like BMW, is slowing and could slip into recession. The earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster in Japan had a greater impact on global trade than economists expected. And demand from China and emerging markets is slackening.

“Germany is so leveraged in global trade that if something happens, then Germany slows immediately,” Mr. Chaney said. “That makes the recovery more fragile. It depends on the good health of the rest of the world.”

Some German exporters are still smarting from the severe recession that followed the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008, and must now gird for another retrenchment. An association that represents makers of construction machinery said last Wednesday that it expected a sales increase of more than 10 percent this year, but that sales were still one-third below their 2008 peak.

Many German companies are still not operating at capacity, while they worry about debt problems in the United States and Europe as well as unrest in the crucial Middle East market, said Christof Kemmann, chief executive of BHS-Sonthofen, a maker of machinery for processing building materials.

“Even when some sectors are reporting good numbers, there is no reason for euphoria,” Mr. Kemmann said.
And it looks increasingly unlikely that demand from home will recover in time to offset fading exports. Government austerity measures have cut into consumption in countries like Ireland and Italy, and the belt-tightening is spreading. President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, in attempt to reassure bond investors that the country can service its debt, last week told his budget and finance ministers to come up with new measures to cut the budget deficit to 3 percent of gross domestic product by 2013, from a projected 5.7 percent this year.

Britain, where unrest in the streets is only adding to uncertainty among consumers and businesses, provides a prime example.

Britain’s economy grew 0.2 percent in the second quarter, but disposable income in the 12-month period through March fell 2.7 percent for the average British family as a result of inflation and higher interest rates. As consumers avoid the stores, several retailers, including Jane Norman, a women’s fashion retailer; TJ Hughes, a discount department store; and the wine and spirits retailer Oddbins have been forced to seek bankruptcy protection.

Despite the risk of another recession, the British government has vowed to stick with its £80 billion ($130 billion) austerity program, which is expected to cost 300,000 public sector jobs.

“It’s pretty harsh times,” said Dave Knight, secretary for the Unison trade union, which represents workers for the Waltham Forest Council in the North of London, an area hit by unrest. Of four council offices, three will close, he said. A team of five psychologists who counseled troubled students will lose their jobs.

Many economists warn that the austerity measures could be counterproductive by making people fearful of unemployment and afraid to spend. “Austerity has become the problem, not the solution,” said Ian Harnett, a managing director at Absolute Strategy Research. “Me saving is great. You saving is great too. But if we all save it’s not good.”

For all the economic angst, many economists say that risk of a repeat of the 2008 financial crisis has been overblown. Banks have more capital in reserve than they did then, the argument goes, and central banks have shown they are ready to step in at the first hint of trouble. This month, signs of stress in the interbank lending market prompted the European Central Bank to expand cheap loans to banks in the euro area, to ensure that none run short of cash.

Further, some economists say, investors have a much better understanding of where the risks lie than they did in 2008, when no one knew which banks were sitting on heaps of bad assets. Under pressure from regulators, European banks disclosed their holdings of government debt last month. The abundance of information makes a panic less likely, these analysts argue.

“Global financial markets are not headed for a second meltdown,” Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland and former chief economist at the United States International Trade Commission, said in a note. “But growth is going to be slow,” he added, “until Western leaders correct the imbalance in demand between Asia and the West, and work off all the debt.”
 

Madrus Rose

post 69
Veteran
XLE, OIH , XOM , OXY ,CVX HAL SLB etc....the POO (oil) up 2% today really powering the market boosting the Euro & hurting the dollar and now just starting to think there may be some shorts just setting up here again . But the Oil patch & energy trades were making for some good bounces off the oversold ....more $$ they print , there goes the commodities trades higher .

R coming in for the SPY @ 122's & the SPX around 1220 matching previous top high pivots , wouldn't give much for being long anything above there personally, say if it reaches 1260 would really be too far ...having trouble reaching that 1220 first .
 
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CascadeFarmer

and now just starting to think there may be some shorts just setting up here again.
That's what I'm thinking. Not much buying excitement in the recent run up from the lows and also...

Oil and gold-mining stocks were among the day's top-performing industry groups, but strong volume was often missing.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Good article.

Economists may still be debating whether Europe is headed for a sharp slowdown or even a recession
I saw an "economist" the other day trying figure out which way was up and down.

For all the economic angst, many economists say that risk of a repeat of the 2008 financial crisis has been overblown. Banks have more capital in reserve than they did then, the argument goes, and central banks have shown they are ready to step in at the first hint of trouble.
That's why the trouble is never going to go away until it finally implodes.

“Global financial markets are not headed for a second meltdown,” Peter Morici, a professor at the University of Maryland and former chief economist at the United States International Trade Commission, said in a note.
I hope this economist knows his ass from a hole in the ground unlike his buddies. :D

Nice meltup day. Man markets really preform great when you ban selling. Green shoots!!
 
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CascadeFarmer

Nice meltup day. Man markets really preform great when you ban selling. Green shoots!!
I think this may really be nothing more than a typical bear trap. Forget the background noise here.

Both AUY and RIC continuing their breakouts. RIC may pause at around $10. It's getting overbought anyway but that old peak at about $10 should provide some resistance.

Even with that nice surge at the end of the day if you bought the RIC Sept 10 calls earlier today at $.65 when the stock was about $9.45 yet finished at $9.78 you're still underwater 7.5%...


 
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