The last organic soil grow that I did I got 1.2gpw growing 6 SSSDH so I'm a believer but my life is much easier now with coco and synthetic nutes lol.
Peace,
HGO
Peace,
HGO
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bobblehead's organic bedroom of high brix gardening
- Thread starter bobblehead
- Start date
C'mon HGO, 1.2 gpw in dirt? That doesn't fit the narrative..
Some of the tastiest bud I've ever grown too
Shhhhhhhhh
You're going to upset the status quo with all of this nonsense HGO. You might be a mod, but a super-cannabis-forum-mythical-creature-character-guy with grobros and medville and dialage and invite-only mcgillicutty, you are not!
You're going to upset the status quo with all of this nonsense HGO. You might be a mod, but a super-cannabis-forum-mythical-creature-character-guy with grobros and medville and dialage and invite-only mcgillicutty, you are not!
Alright while all you guys have fun ripping my boy fred a new asshole I'm going to correct ya'll on some things. First off, as usual fred is right (any of ya wanna try and argue with my results? I don't just say the man has been teaching me things for nearly 20 years to hear myself talk. I don't know fred in real life. Never met the guy, but you know what, he has had a HUGE influence on my ability to produce like I do) that synthetic nutes produce more than chem (assume both gardens are completely dialed here), but his explanation, as usual, leaves a bit to be desired. It's true that organics are capable of producing the preverbal 2lbs+ per light just like chems (I do it with both regularly), the catch in that is that it takes longer to VEG them to get that yield. That is where chems pull ahead in the yield department (crops per year). So before you guys continue to run your mouths and put the man down, maybe you should get the proper experience under your belt first. Bobble you know you're my boy, and I love ya bro :friends:, but you are arguing with people that were doing this shit on a commercial scale when you were still getting your ass wiped for you. That, and you are trying to make your argument with second hand information, not your own experience, makes your argument null and void in my eyes. All that said if you find organics to be an easier route to getting your desired yield (no real surprise considering your difficulties managing nute strength and ph within the media), then far be it from me to stop you. Just don't think for a second that I won't hop in as usual to correct you when you are putting up incorrect information 
No hard feelings on my end, just facts.......
No hard feelings on my end, just facts.......
Hi mister_d
All of bubbleheads information is peer reviewed published studies. Can you please explain how all these researchers are wrong and only DHF is right?
Difference in veg time because you use different nutrients?
Can you please explain this phenomenon to me?
On one hand you say NPK is NPK and the source doesn't matter, on the other hand synthetic NPK grows plants faster, but once they flower, it doesn't matter organic or chem it will produce the same result...
Sounds like a lot of bro science dialage Medville talk to me.
In my most recent indoor grow, I planted clones after 10 days of propagation , 1 week under T5s and 4 days under 10,000w. In total 21 days of vegetative growth. I include propagation in veg time.
I have 3 different varieties in there now and will see over 2 per lamp on them.
Photo to follow
All of bubbleheads information is peer reviewed published studies. Can you please explain how all these researchers are wrong and only DHF is right?
Difference in veg time because you use different nutrients?
Can you please explain this phenomenon to me?
On one hand you say NPK is NPK and the source doesn't matter, on the other hand synthetic NPK grows plants faster, but once they flower, it doesn't matter organic or chem it will produce the same result...
Sounds like a lot of bro science dialage Medville talk to me.
In my most recent indoor grow, I planted clones after 10 days of propagation , 1 week under T5s and 4 days under 10,000w. In total 21 days of vegetative growth. I include propagation in veg time.
I have 3 different varieties in there now and will see over 2 per lamp on them.
Photo to follow
Alright while all you guys have fun ripping my boy fred a new asshole I'm going to correct ya'll on some things. First off, as usual fred is right (any of ya wanna try and argue with my results? I don't just say the man has been teaching me things for nearly 20 years to hear myself talk. I don't know fred in real life. Never met the guy, but you know what, he has had a HUGE influence on my ability to produce like I do) that synthetic nutes produce more than chem (assume both gardens are completely dialed here), but his explanation, as usual, leaves a bit to be desired.
he's influenced my growing a lot too... and then when I disagreed he took to trolling me. At first it was just him telling me what's best for me, right? Now he goes around to other people's threads dropping mine and Veg's names for no apparent reason other than to be a troll. That's how his post got deleted from your thread. Because he was trolling.
It's true that organics are capable of producing the preverbal 2lbs+ per light just like chems (I do it with both regularly), the catch in that is that it takes longer to VEG them to get that yield. That is where chems pull ahead in the yield department (crops per year So before you guys continue to run your mouths and put the man down, maybe you should get the proper experience under your belt first.
you know better than this D. Numbers dictate yield!
Bobble you know you're my boy, and I love ya bro :friends:, but you are arguing with people that were doing this shit on a commercial scale when you were still getting your ass wiped for you. That, and you are trying to make your argument with second hand information, not your own experience, makes your argument null and void in my eyes.
with all due respect I have an organic garden with 3 crops under my belt. Freds grew with maxi bloom and gh 3 part as the story goes... so where's his first hand experience? I doubt all of his experience due to his claims to be an authority on all things cannabis related... When in fact he's not, nobody has ever met him, and he has no pictures! Just claims that are backed up with other people's threads! I really felt like a fool when I realized who I had been taking advice from, and I understand the urge to defend him. A lot of his tips were good, but a lot are terrible, like running your room in the high 80's low 90's to get the plants to cannibalize themselves. Bad info.
All that said if you find organics to be an easier route to getting your desired yield (no real surprise considering your difficulties managing nute strength and ph within the media), then far be it from me to stop you. Just don't think for a second that I won't hop in as usual to correct you when you are putting up incorrect information
Please feel free to chime in and share your view of the truth at any time. You've always been respectful toward me, and me toward you. I will continue to take peer reviewed research over bro science all day.
In the interest of making my thoughts clear, ..
It occurred to me before I logged in just now, the irony of the post that
was made your thread and what's started here. It's worth pointing out that that a post in a similar spirit was made at your place a few days back, so I'm not sure this ought to be a surprise to anyone. Anyway.
I really don't want to roll too much in the mud, but I think if you ask enough people (and read and perhaps re-read and re-re-read), you'll find some.. Skeptics?
I chose these quotes from your post for a specific reason, as it relates to what we're talking about. Again - I'm already embarrassed to be playing like this with some dude/s on the internet - but I've personally read enough posts that don't reconcile with themselves that I've.. Lost.. Credibility?
So let me just be entirely clear in my honesty here. I'm not 100% sure about any feats or fishin' stories or any grows even. I've read enough posts that contradict one another, or one post that swears by xyz technique, and another post that acknowledges "Damn, I've never done it like that, smart thinkin brah."
It's not hard to regurgitate information that's been relatively accepted as fact or procedure within certain circles. Hang out long enough, you'll talk the talk.
I don't mean to suggest that any advice or knowhow is "pretend" or "made up. But it's possible to trust the message without trusting the source, .. ? I can tell ya how to yank a motor and change the rotor girder reticulator valve, but it doesn't mean I owned a fleet of luxury vehicles. I might'a just looked at a Chilton's while I had a sammich.
How do we know any of fred's information is firsthand, aside from stories? I mean, hell, I once caught a fish this big, .. But I didn't have my camera!
Be clear - I'm not debating any science, bro or with an impressive author attached, from the filthy granola-eating hippies to the dudes in white lab coats with slick hair. Just giving an honest response and explanation of why I've said what I've said and why I feel the way I do.
Just my own conclusion, to which I've come by using my own brain & critical thinking abilities, based on multiple observations over time. It’s not just about posts & words, but actions & carriage. Tough to articulate.
I'm also willing to admit that I could be 100% wrong. Pretty sure I'm not, but I might be.
..and you too _D
..no hard feelings, just my honest two cents, critically thinking about the whole shebang. How I feel doesn’t need to be a secret - and I don't mean it to disrespect anyone or for the sake of being a dick.
(Let's none of us get hurt feelings, by the way, if a guy on one end of the internet thinks a guy on the other end of the internet ain't tellin' the god's honest truth.)
There. I feel better.
It occurred to me before I logged in just now, the irony of the post that
was made your thread and what's started here.
It's worth pointing out that that a post in a similar spirit was made at your place a few days back, so I'm not sure this ought to be a surprise to anyone. Anyway.I really don't want to roll too much in the mud, but I think if you ask enough people (and read and perhaps re-read and re-re-read), you'll find some.. Skeptics?
I chose these quotes from your post for a specific reason, as it relates to what we're talking about. Again - I'm already embarrassed to be playing like this with some dude/s on the internet - but I've personally read enough posts that don't reconcile with themselves that I've.. Lost.. Credibility?
So let me just be entirely clear in my honesty here. I'm not 100% sure about any feats or fishin' stories or any grows even. I've read enough posts that contradict one another, or one post that swears by xyz technique, and another post that acknowledges "Damn, I've never done it like that, smart thinkin brah."
It's not hard to regurgitate information that's been relatively accepted as fact or procedure within certain circles. Hang out long enough, you'll talk the talk. I don't mean to suggest that any advice or knowhow is "pretend" or "made up. But it's possible to trust the message without trusting the source, .. ? I can tell ya how to yank a motor and change the rotor girder reticulator valve, but it doesn't mean I owned a fleet of luxury vehicles. I might'a just looked at a Chilton's while I had a sammich.
How do we know any of fred's information is firsthand, aside from stories? I mean, hell, I once caught a fish this big, .. But I didn't have my camera!
Be clear - I'm not debating any science, bro or with an impressive author attached, from the filthy granola-eating hippies to the dudes in white lab coats with slick hair. Just giving an honest response and explanation of why I've said what I've said and why I feel the way I do.
Just my own conclusion, to which I've come by using my own brain & critical thinking abilities, based on multiple observations over time. It’s not just about posts & words, but actions & carriage. Tough to articulate.
I'm also willing to admit that I could be 100% wrong. Pretty sure I'm not, but I might be.
..and you too _D
..no hard feelings, just my honest two cents, critically thinking about the whole shebang. How I feel doesn’t need to be a secret - and I don't mean it to disrespect anyone or for the sake of being a dick.
(Let's none of us get hurt feelings, by the way, if a guy on one end of the internet thinks a guy on the other end of the internet ain't tellin' the god's honest truth.)
There. I feel better.
Again, you are trying to argue the wrong the point. Like I said in my last post, it's not that organics can't produce 2+ per light. It's that chems will produce 2+ per light more times in a year period than organics due to the increased veg speed. For arguments sake, lets say you were growing with chems, and as a result your plants reach flowerable size 4 days sooner. Over the course of a year you could have another crop 16 days into flower where as your fourth organic crop would just be finishing. So lets assume for simplicity sake you get 2lbs per light with an 8 week flower period. Growing organic you'd net 80lbs by years end, while the same garden growing chem will have produced 100lbs. Not exactly a small difference in the long run
.
Originally Posted by Mister_D
Alright while all you guys have fun ripping my boy fred a new asshole I'm going to correct ya'll on some things. First off, as usual fred is right (any of ya wanna try and argue with my results? I don't just say the man has been teaching me things for nearly 20 years to hear myself talk. I don't know fred in real life. Never met the guy, but you know what, he has had a HUGE influence on my ability to produce like I do) that synthetic nutes produce more than chem (assume both gardens are completely dialed here), but his explanation, as usual, leaves a bit to be desired.
he's influenced my growing a lot too... and then when I disagreed he took to trolling me. At first it was just him telling me what's best for me, right? Now he goes around to other people's threads dropping mine and Veg's names for no apparent reason other than to be a troll. That's how his post got deleted from your thread. Because he was trolling.
I made clear long ago how I felt about you two bickering. It's childish to say the very least, and to be perfectly honest I've lost a bit of respect for both of you over it.........
It's true that organics are capable of producing the preverbal 2lbs+ per light just like chems (I do it with both regularly), the catch in that is that it takes longer to VEG them to get that yield. That is where chems pull ahead in the yield department (crops per year So before you guys continue to run your mouths and put the man down, maybe you should get the proper experience under your belt first.
you know better than this D. Numbers dictate yield!
Numbers do dictate yield, but you guys constantly miss why that is. Less veg time means more crops per year, which all else equal means greater yield. Fred is nothing short of terrible at "completely" explaining most concepts, so ya it's easy to say the man is contradicting himself, lying, or just plain wrong. I honestly can't remember reading anything freds has been wrong about in 20 years. There have been many times, especially early in my grow career, where I felt he was full of shit. However knowing what I know now, I see he just didn't share everything needed to be successful with a certain technique. Difficult to do in a single post anyway, but also very typical of people coming from his time period. Not saying he does or doesn't do it on purpose, but I have yet to see him be completely wrong about something. That's not to say that it hasn't happened, but I haven't seen it. If I did I'd be on his ass just like I'm on anyone else I see posting incorrect information.
Bobble you know you're my boy, and I love ya bro, but you are arguing with people that were doing this shit on a commercial scale when you were still getting your ass wiped for you. That, and you are trying to make your argument with second hand information, not your own experience, makes your argument null and void in my eyes.
with all due respect I have an organic garden with 3 crops under my belt. Freds grew with maxi bloom and gh 3 part as the story goes... so where's his first hand experience? I doubt all of his experience due to his claims to be an authority on all things cannabis related... When in fact he's not, nobody has ever met him, and he has no pictures! Just claims that are backed up with other people's threads! I really felt like a fool when I realized who I had been taking advice from, and I understand the urge to defend him. A lot of his tips were good, but a lot are terrible, like running your room in the high 80's low 90's to get the plants to cannibalize themselves. Bad info.
First off, I think you misunderstand my reasons behind defending him. It's not because he's my bro, you and me disagree all the time, and we're friends too. I don't pull punches with anybody, if I think your right or wrong I'll explain why. The who in the situation is irrelevant. The best growers I know have never taken a picture of their crops. I believe this is in large part due to them coming from a time where growing meant long prison sentences, medical/legal was a pipe dream for most of these guys (fred included). Trying being in that state of mind for 30 years and then tell me how many pictures you toss up (oh and move to the deep south where they toss you in prison for years over a single joint). As for the room being in the high 80's, low 90's being bad advice, just take a closer look at jackmayoffer's grow and then try to make that argument
All that said if you find organics to be an easier route to getting your desired yield (no real surprise considering your difficulties managing nute strength and ph within the media), then far be it from me to stop you. Just don't think for a second that I won't hop in as usual to correct you when you are putting up incorrect informationNo hard feelings on my end, just facts.......
Please feel free to chime in and share your view of the truth at any time. You've always been respectful toward me, and me toward you. I will continue to take peer reviewed research over bro science all day.
It's not a view of the truth, or bro science as you two are so fond of saying. Everything I have said is based in MY real world experience/experiments with cannabis. Not freds posts, or some studies done by some else in god knows where, on some other species of plant. Not to say that white papers aren't a useful resource, they are, but it's very foolish of you to dismiss information from people that have been working with cannabis for many years, yet blindly accept anything written on a white paper by someone who's probably never grown a single cannabis plant in their life. Explain to me how that makes any sense at all?
surfguitar
Member
How do you know synthetics increase veg speed? My veg speed is pretty remarkable especially since I've added a fogger. Don't really see it getting any faster, wondering how you even determine that? Have you done many side by sides?
Mr D , micro life makes plant nutrients available?
While there are species of bacteria that fix nitrogen solubilize phosphorus and potassium, a plant that is grown organically with the correct method, not hippie tear TLO crap makes its own nutrients available by exuding organic acids and complex carbohydrates and photo compounds in to the soil.
Ańother thing that dictates the availability of organic nutrients is particle size. Under 100microns and you had best believe that it is going to be plant available..meaning it will able to be absorbed through the root hairs
Have you heard of foliar spraying? This is the preferred method of nutrient delivery in cutting edge organic farms. Studies show results in the plant in as little as 30 minutes.
My experience shows that veg speed is determined by environment , not weather or not the nutrients are conventional or organic.
Chemical nutrients are often nitrate based, when a plant has too much nitrates it isn't able to create the proteins and enzymes it needs to in order to be healthy. Mn, Co, and B can help to turn these excess nitrates to proteins however when chelated via DPTA, EDTA etc, they are less than preferred to,the plant. There are better sources like manganese sulfate, cobalt sulfate and boric acid...
I do agree healthy plants grow faster and produce better crops. I just disagree that chemical nutrients will get you there.
I also think that any study done on C3 fruiting plants is applicable to marijuana as their life system is generally the same. I agree that specific amounts may not transfer over but you have a place to start that has field tested results on similar crops and if you're an astute grower that takes notes and can do math you'll be able,to find the effective concentration for your environment.
You missed my point, that is after 10 days of propagation and 7 days of veg under T5 4 days of veg in the flower beds I was able to flower a crop that will yield 2+ and I used organic nutrients to veg and flower.
I have a propagation area vegetative area and a blooming area. This means 20 days before harvest it's time to make clones and pre veg plants. If I flower for 60 days and veg in my flower room for 4 days that means I'll be able to pull in 5 crops per calendar year.
FWIW, jack ain't running his room in the 90s, homie has 20 tons of ac for 50k
Bobbles info wasn't always peer reviewed,I will give you that...but those examples you can pull are when he was drinking the DHF Kool Aid.
While there are species of bacteria that fix nitrogen solubilize phosphorus and potassium, a plant that is grown organically with the correct method, not hippie tear TLO crap makes its own nutrients available by exuding organic acids and complex carbohydrates and photo compounds in to the soil.
Ańother thing that dictates the availability of organic nutrients is particle size. Under 100microns and you had best believe that it is going to be plant available..meaning it will able to be absorbed through the root hairs
Have you heard of foliar spraying? This is the preferred method of nutrient delivery in cutting edge organic farms. Studies show results in the plant in as little as 30 minutes.
My experience shows that veg speed is determined by environment , not weather or not the nutrients are conventional or organic.
Chemical nutrients are often nitrate based, when a plant has too much nitrates it isn't able to create the proteins and enzymes it needs to in order to be healthy. Mn, Co, and B can help to turn these excess nitrates to proteins however when chelated via DPTA, EDTA etc, they are less than preferred to,the plant. There are better sources like manganese sulfate, cobalt sulfate and boric acid...
I do agree healthy plants grow faster and produce better crops. I just disagree that chemical nutrients will get you there.
I also think that any study done on C3 fruiting plants is applicable to marijuana as their life system is generally the same. I agree that specific amounts may not transfer over but you have a place to start that has field tested results on similar crops and if you're an astute grower that takes notes and can do math you'll be able,to find the effective concentration for your environment.
You missed my point, that is after 10 days of propagation and 7 days of veg under T5 4 days of veg in the flower beds I was able to flower a crop that will yield 2+ and I used organic nutrients to veg and flower.
I have a propagation area vegetative area and a blooming area. This means 20 days before harvest it's time to make clones and pre veg plants. If I flower for 60 days and veg in my flower room for 4 days that means I'll be able to pull in 5 crops per calendar year.
FWIW, jack ain't running his room in the 90s, homie has 20 tons of ac for 50k
Bobbles info wasn't always peer reviewed,I will give you that...but those examples you can pull are when he was drinking the DHF Kool Aid.
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By doing side by sides in my own rooms of course
. I've compared soil (both organic and chem), coco, and RDWC to each other. Those experiments aside I've grown thousands of cannabis plants in all kinds of growing systems, and been around professional cannabis gardens for the last 20 years. If that isn't enough for you, show me just one organic dirt grow that is beating dialed RDWC in veg speed. You can even use veg's organic garden for that side of the argument, it seems dialed enough. Do some searching, i'll wait.......Mr D , micro life makes plant nutrients available?
Yes, as I'm sure you well should know, bacteria consume the raw materials digesting them into a plant useable form available once the bacteria die off in the natural cycle of the food web.
While there are species of bacteria that fix nitrogen solubilize phosphorus and potassium, a plant that is grown organically with the correct method, not hippie tear TLO crap makes its own nutrients available by exuding organic acids and complex carbohydrates and photo compounds in to the soil.
This is true also, but not the only way plants assimilate organic nutes. Thank you for admitting that organics are not immediately available to the roots though
Ańother thing that dictates the availability of organic nutrients is particle size. Under 100microns and you had best believe that it is going to be plant available..in that it will able to be absorbed through the root hairs
And how many of the typically used organic nutes come screened to less than 100 microns? Not many........
Have you heard of foliar spraying? This is the preferred method of nutrient delivery in cutting edge organic farms. Studies show results in the plant in as little as 30 minutes.
Of course I have, but nobody is feeding crops on a commercial scale solely with foliar feeds. It's not cost effective, and doesn't really add to your argument because the same effects are witness by foliar feeding in a chem garden
My experience shows that veg speed is determined by environment , not weather or not the nutrients are conventional or organic.
So you don't have experience testing chem vs organic both in the same dialed environment? If the answer is no, then you don't have a foot to stand on in this argument. I agree having a proper environment will increase veg speed. It is irrelevant to the what we are arguing here however. I clearly stated earlier that chems out yield organics all other factors being equal (i.e both tests done in a dialed environment).
Chemical nutrients are often nitrate based, when a plant has too much nitrates it isn't able to create the proteins and enzymes it needs to in order to be healthy. Mn, Co, and B can help to turn these excess nitrates to proteins however when chelated via DPTA, EDTA etc, they are less than preferred to,the plant. There are better sources like manganese sulfate, cobalt sulfate and boric acid...
If your plant has too much nitrate in it, your nutes are not dialed, period. You are correct about the rest of that, but again none of that is relevant if using your nutes properly (i.e your dialed)
I do agree healthy plants grow faster and produce better crops. I just disagree that chemical nutrients will get you there.
I also think that any study done on C3 fruiting plants is applicable to marijuana as their life system is generally the same. I agree that specific amounts may not transfer over but you have a place to start that has field tested results on similar crops and if you're an astute grower that takes notes and can do math you'll be able,to find the effective concentration for your environment.
Again I never said white papers contained no valid information (just the opposite in fact), but again you are agreeing with me that the information often has to be adjusted for herb specifically. So would you rather take information from people that have been working with herb and already know this shit, or take the information off a paper that's not cannabis specific and assume it's correct until you find out otherwise? Personally I use a healthy amount of both, leaning more towards experienced advice of course.
You missed my point, in that after 10 days of propagation and 7 days of veg under T5 4 days of veg in the flower beds I was able to flower a crop that will yield 2+ and I used organic nutrients to veg and flower.
Which is not a valid argument for the point I made. I never said organics can't produce 2+ per light, or that organics veg "slow". I said that chems will produce 2+ per light more times per year, thus increasing the amount you harvest, all else being equal. Using my example, 4 days shorter veg time per crop is a difficult thing to witness if you don't have extensive notes and experience with the clone being tested.
FWIW, jack ain't running his room in the 90s, homie has 20 tons of ac for 50k
Dude if I really need to i'll go dig up the post where he talks about keeping his room in the mid to high 80's on purpose. This is done with good reason, but like I said before there are other factors besides temp that make that work so well for him. It's not that hot because he can't cool it further if desired, it's that hot because in combination with other environmental factors being adjusted for the higher temps it increases his yield.
Bobbles info wasn't always peer reviewed,I will give you that...but those examples you can pull are when he was drinking the DHF Kool Aid.
Thanks again for agreeing with me.... again
. Funny thing about DHF's Kool-Aid, I've been drinking it for 20 years and guess what, I smash most peoples live in garden yields, in a garden I spend at most 3 hours once a week at. That is not to say that he is the sole reason for my success (far from it), but the man taught me some of the most important information I have in my stash. I get that you and bobble have had issue with him, but that doesn't mean the man is wrong. My own garden, and probably thousands like it have benefited from what he's shared over the years. Hard to argue with those kinds of results
I'm going to point out this specifically as it relates to the rest of your argument. It's true that reading enough can make you sound smart to the average joe, but when you start trying to teach people like myself, it's pretty obvious who knows their shit and who doesn't
. Especially when you consider I've been interacting with the man for 20 years and he still occasionally teaches me something new. There are certain things about growing that can only be learned by doing, DHF is the real article .
Mister D
Attempting to converse with you is like beating a dead horse. I need to pull my hat from the ring.
Attempting to converse with you is like beating a dead horse. I need to pull my hat from the ring.
K well anyway back to our regularly scheduled program. I've wasted enough server space.
After I sprayed my plants with that concoction of like 20 different things... I hit them with CaCl2 and triacontanol. I haven't bought Ca25 yet, but in the future it would be easier. I bought the powder w/ poly20 and a bag of rock salt to test it out before buying it in bulk. Anyway, I went heavier on the CaCl2 than I normally would, used 4g per gallon. CaCl2 is the carrier for the triacontanol, and the triacontanol really is just a fraction of a percent of the Ca25 package. Anyway, BAM! There was some very noticeable growth immediately. The plants are growing like I've never seen before honestly. The internode spacing is much tighter. The leaves are a very healthy dark green. The day after I sprayed with Ca and tria I checked the brix about an hour after the lights came on. It was 12, with a super fuzzy line, and a good blue color. No too dark but not too light imo. I'm pretty happy with all that 1 week in.
I rebuilt my fogger. Item #1- don't fog tap water. The mineral deposits end everywhere, including your plants. I had a white dander all over everything once I was completely sealed. It washed off the plants and they look fine now but its just something to keep in mind. I've put a sediment filter on the line and I have a RO unit on the way. I'm sure everything will improve with some RO. I also put everything into a smaller box. I was using a trash can, and that ended up leaking water from the lid... So I got something with a smaller lid, easier to seal, easier to exchange the air in the box and push the fog out. Idk why I didn't think of it sooner.
Finally got some yucca and cytoplus. Got some other goodies en route... I put down some landscape fabric on the beds. Picked up some drip tube too. At some point I anticipate not being able to get around the beds so easy.
After I sprayed my plants with that concoction of like 20 different things... I hit them with CaCl2 and triacontanol. I haven't bought Ca25 yet, but in the future it would be easier. I bought the powder w/ poly20 and a bag of rock salt to test it out before buying it in bulk. Anyway, I went heavier on the CaCl2 than I normally would, used 4g per gallon. CaCl2 is the carrier for the triacontanol, and the triacontanol really is just a fraction of a percent of the Ca25 package. Anyway, BAM! There was some very noticeable growth immediately. The plants are growing like I've never seen before honestly. The internode spacing is much tighter. The leaves are a very healthy dark green. The day after I sprayed with Ca and tria I checked the brix about an hour after the lights came on. It was 12, with a super fuzzy line, and a good blue color. No too dark but not too light imo. I'm pretty happy with all that 1 week in.
I rebuilt my fogger. Item #1- don't fog tap water. The mineral deposits end everywhere, including your plants. I had a white dander all over everything once I was completely sealed. It washed off the plants and they look fine now but its just something to keep in mind. I've put a sediment filter on the line and I have a RO unit on the way. I'm sure everything will improve with some RO. I also put everything into a smaller box. I was using a trash can, and that ended up leaking water from the lid... So I got something with a smaller lid, easier to seal, easier to exchange the air in the box and push the fog out. Idk why I didn't think of it sooner.
Finally got some yucca and cytoplus. Got some other goodies en route... I put down some landscape fabric on the beds. Picked up some drip tube too. At some point I anticipate not being able to get around the beds so easy.
So you admit that you have no valid argument then?
Thanks, now if you have nothing further to add, back to our regularly scheduled programing . for putting up a civil debate though.How them plants looking bobble?
I have plenty to add mister D what you don't understand is the level I'm contributing from.
It's tiresome to continually point out how you and DHF really have no idea what you're talking about , then to have you just come through with some more bro drivel.
Go read the label of GHMicro , it's main ingredients are ammonium nitrate, calcium nitrate , and potassium nitrate. GHGrow has magnesium nitrate in it. Please let me know how you can dial in these nutrients in to a plant to not have excess nitrate levels and do you do the sap testing to know? Ca , K , and Mg are extremely important cations in the plant, when attached to a NO 3 to make it available the plant takes up the NO 3 as well ... Don't even get me started on what NH4NH3 does to a plant!
Foliar feeding not happening in big Ag? Dude, comments like this are what make it so I can't continue with you! It shows how little you know! Farmers use foliar spraying to cover big acreage with less water and less nutrient input! Yes you can have good results adding a solid foliar program to a conventional program. Adding foliar Mn, B , and Co will help convert excess NO 3 to protein.
Let's do a little math, cuts are taken 20 days prior to harvest.
10 days propagation
7 days pre veg
4 days acclimation in raised beds in flower room
60 days flowering
Separate propagation area , pre veg , and flower area , 64 days time in the flower room. 5 crops per year.
Let me know how you could squeeze more in. There's 365 days per year and if you're on a 9 week cycle I'm not sure how using chemical nutrients is going to get you more crops per year? Does it add more days to the calendar?
My dog in this race is that DHF isn't giving advice based on his own experience if you read his posts for long enough you'd know he's contradicted himself as he's gone from DEDHEADFRED to DHF and the few names in between to now...DUNHAVINFUN and continuously perpetuates bullshit...in the advice he gives and stories he tells, and the guy continuously mentions me in his posts in a trolling manner ... It's just comedy to me at this point.
Looking at your gallery it's obvious how little time you spend in and on your garden.
I've got to put you on ignore now.
It's tiresome to continually point out how you and DHF really have no idea what you're talking about , then to have you just come through with some more bro drivel.
Go read the label of GHMicro , it's main ingredients are ammonium nitrate, calcium nitrate , and potassium nitrate. GHGrow has magnesium nitrate in it. Please let me know how you can dial in these nutrients in to a plant to not have excess nitrate levels and do you do the sap testing to know? Ca , K , and Mg are extremely important cations in the plant, when attached to a NO 3 to make it available the plant takes up the NO 3 as well ... Don't even get me started on what NH4NH3 does to a plant!
Foliar feeding not happening in big Ag? Dude, comments like this are what make it so I can't continue with you! It shows how little you know! Farmers use foliar spraying to cover big acreage with less water and less nutrient input! Yes you can have good results adding a solid foliar program to a conventional program. Adding foliar Mn, B , and Co will help convert excess NO 3 to protein.
Let's do a little math, cuts are taken 20 days prior to harvest.
10 days propagation
7 days pre veg
4 days acclimation in raised beds in flower room
60 days flowering
Separate propagation area , pre veg , and flower area , 64 days time in the flower room. 5 crops per year.
Let me know how you could squeeze more in. There's 365 days per year and if you're on a 9 week cycle I'm not sure how using chemical nutrients is going to get you more crops per year? Does it add more days to the calendar?
My dog in this race is that DHF isn't giving advice based on his own experience if you read his posts for long enough you'd know he's contradicted himself as he's gone from DEDHEADFRED to DHF and the few names in between to now...DUNHAVINFUN and continuously perpetuates bullshit...in the advice he gives and stories he tells, and the guy continuously mentions me in his posts in a trolling manner ... It's just comedy to me at this point.
Looking at your gallery it's obvious how little time you spend in and on your garden.
I've got to put you on ignore now.
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the level you're contributing from. This coming from the guy that was just giving synpe shit about "delusions of grandeur". I tore apart everything you just tried to use as an argument against me (with facts and experience I might add), and then further I explained why it wasn't relevant to the argument you were trying to make to begin with. So what part exactly was "bro drivel"? If you'd like to share a valid argument (from whatever "level" you think you're on) for why I'm wrong, I'm all ears and happy to admit that I'm wrong. Shouldn't be hard at all for someone on your "level" . I'm waiting.........Oh and just so we are clear, and don't waste any more sever space, the debate is about chems vegging plants slightly faster than organics (all else being equal), thus increasing harvested herb on a per year basis. Not that organics can also produce 2lbs per light as you seem to continue to try and argue.
That's a cute lil edit, I go ahead and respond to that too as you're way off base on a lot of that too.
Go read the label of GHMicro , it's main ingredients are ammonium nitrate, calcium nitrate , and potassium nitrate. GHGrow has magnesium nitrate in it. Please let me know how you can dial in these nutrients in to a plant to not have excess nitrate levels and do you do the sap testing to know? Ca , K , and Mg are extremely important cations in the plant, when attached to a NO 3 to make it available the plant takes up the NO 3 as well ... Don't even get me started on what NH4NH3 does to a plant!
You right, and since your soooo smart you should also know how the information was originally acquired, trial/error and testing. So you saying that because I don't own a meter I don't know shit is pretty laughable. It's very cute how you like to add a bunch a irrelevant information that makes you sound smart to the average joe, but adds nothing to your argument.
Foliar feeding not happening in big Ag? Dude, comments like this are what make it so I can't continue with you! It shows how little you know! Farmers use foliar spraying to cover big acreage with less water and less nutrient input! Yes you can have good results adding a solid foliar program to a conventional program. Adding foliar Mn, B , and Co will help convert excess NO 3 to protein.
Let's do a little math, cuts are taken 20 days prior to harvest.
10 days propagation
7 days pre veg
4 days acclimation in raised beds in flower room
60 days flowering
Separate propagation area , pre veg , and flower area , 64 days time in the flower room. 5 crops per year.
Let me know how you could squeeze more in. There's 365 days per year and if you're on a 9 week cycle I'm not sure how using chemical nutrients is going to get you more crops per year? Does it add more days to the calendar?
Finally you make a valid point concerning the debate at hand, with one issue. Every time you move your grow you've lost at least 20lbs the first year there. From then on in your case yield would be even, but still that's ~40-100K lost depending on your market. Not insignificant by any means. So again chems win the yield per year debate as you won't make up that extra 20 lbs anytime in the future.
My dog in this race is that DHF isn't giving advice based on his own experience if you read his posts for long enough you'd know he's contradicted himself as he's gone from DEDHEADFRED to DHF and the few names in between to now...DUNHAVINFUN and continuously perpetuates bullshit...in the advice he gives and stories he tells, and the guy continuously mentions me in his posts in a trolling manner ... It's just comedy to me at this point.
Dude I'm starting to feel like you don't read 95% of my posts before replying. I've been talking to fred for damn near 20 years now, don't you think maybe sometime in that period I might have picked up that the dude doesn't know what he's talking about? You know, if that were actually the case. You guys put way to much emphasis on the story behind the information he is sharing, rather than the information itself. Ever consider maybe he alters the story a bit to protect himself? Like I said his mind state is much different than ours coming from a medical/legal situation vs. a highly illegal one.
Looking at your gallery it's obvious how little time you spend in and on your garden.
I've got to put you on ignore now.
Ya 3 hours tops a week, and constant experimentation doesn't exactly produce stellar results, but that's not my main garden either
Please take the time to read my above posts to understand the level that I am speaking to you from.
My ipad battery died mid post.
Bro drivel is telling me you can dial in Gh3 part and not have excess no3 in your plants...but you don't own a sap nitrate meter
My ipad battery died mid post.
Bro drivel is telling me you can dial in Gh3 part and not have excess no3 in your plants...but you don't own a sap nitrate meter
