MH vs HPS for yield?

[Drek]

Your assumption is without foundation. You are using it as a basis for making conclusions and giving advice. Maybe your condescension is obscuring your view?

Really? Is my assumption without any reasonable foundation?

More irony still. Even if what you think is implied by evolution were going on, the outcome you are claiming still wouldn't follow.

What else did happen then, and what is happening now in terms of what source of light plants prefer, over the light source they've evolved with since the dawn of the earth? Just wondering!

What color is the sun?

It has no color, per say. It's color temperature (on a clear summer day) is approximately 6-6500k...in terms of our measurement units.

If it is the perfect light for photosynthesis, photosynthesis must like color and intensity that change with time of day and day of year. What bulb would that be?

The bulb that overall best represents the intensity, radioactive quality and overall spectrum of natural daylight on a clear day.

Sun works great in no way implies sun works best.

Sun is the only thing they've evolved with for billions of years. Therefore, the natural conclusion would be that their genetic encoding (influenced entirely by their natural habitat) would respond best with what they've evolved with. Their immunity, defense mechanisms, energy intake, circadian rhythm, etc...is a result of their interaction with the sun on earth!

Unless you want to spend another 1000 years re-acclimatizing them to something other than what they've evolved with thus far? Why fight it?

You're two steps removed from a reasonable conclusion. No offense

No offense taken. I like intelligent debate and conversation. And even more I like objectivity enhanced with common sense.
To be honest, I find it hard to believe that it's even debatable. Next let's debate whether water is good for the human body!
...or how our bodies didn't evolve to generate an adequate vitamin D uptake from sunlight...let's go on and on about how inefficient sunlight is for organisms on earth.

Let me guess...you're an HPS user!

Besides, we're getting off topic. This thread is supposed to be about what...oh yeah...this vs this for yield.

 

[Big D]

No offense taken. I like intelligent debate and conversation. And even more I like objectivity enhanced with common sense.
To be honest, I find it hard to believe that it's even debatable. Next let's debate whether water is good for the human body!
...or how our bodies didn't evolve to generate an adequate vitamin D uptake from sunlight...let's go on and on about how inefficient sunlight is for organisms on earth.[/QUOTE]

Really. I learned on these forums that alot of people over think it.

Gnome, maybe its a combination of that bulb and your 20 year growing experience and fine skills.

 

[Drek]

Really. I learned on these forums that alot of people over think it.

Which is exactly what I'm saying. It shouldn't be hard to deduce...it should be obvious enough.

Gnome, maybe its a combination of that bulb and your 20 year growing experience and fine skills.

+1 to that

 

[the gnome]

Your assumption is without foundation.. Maybe your condescension is obscuring your view?
More irony still. Even if what you think is implied by evolution were going on, the outcome you are claiming still wouldn't follow.
What color is the sun? If it is the perfect light for photosynthesis, photosynthesis must like color and intensity that change with time of day and day of year. What bulb would that be?

Sun works great in no way implies sun works best.
Looks like sun in no way implies works like sun.

You're two steps removed from a reasonable conclusion. No offense

so?? exactly what color does the sun vary to at certain times of day or year??

btw
just so were on the same page RB,
I have to say I'm with other folks here with the common sense thing on the sun is the best thing going for plants
and for the rest of us too for that matter,

and your debating it??

 

[the gnome]

filed for future reference...

So You disagree scientists working with plants in a Controlled environment working with various different electromagnetic spectrums appropriate for photosynthesis have not come to the conclusion which spectrum actually stimulates growth response better????? then others in different phases am sorry your Wrong there
IMO grow light companies have done a fine job Tailoring to the needs of plants pretty hard to get a light close to the sun when there are many variables like angle of the sun weather and earths tilt giving us our seasonal values right and different stages around the world of plant phases Seasons
THe Sun has not Changes in millions of millions of years its the same thermonuclear fusion sun from the day it started and will last for millions of millions of years before it dies out
but what has changed is plants surroundings C02 levels , toxic levels of of certain minerals etc Some caused naturally and lots caused by MAN

btw
seems like RB would be on DF's ass for the bulb manf. making bulbs as close to the sun as they can and him thinking its good

 

[HunterJ]

G'day Gnome.

Some great threads on this forum.

It's winter down under and I've been looking at doing a indoor grow and finding too much info. But that's the process, look, absorb and discard. What's left is the way to go.

Right now, after (others) this and the https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215 thread I am inclined towards a all MH lighting rig, I am also of the mind the sun (wide spectrum) is our go-to light source, and I have a question if you will.

I see you refer to using the 1000x/4000k bulb for blooming, did I see (somewhere in there) you also refer to using a 5200k bulb for veg? Or ...?

 

[the gnome]

i may have mentioned a 5200K bulb and veg in conversation,
personally i haven't run that particular bulb for over 3yrs and found 6400Ks more to my liking.
the 1000w 4000k Mh I use now seems to do just whats needed in veg and bloom.
Ive also been running an ultrasun 1000w MH 7200Kin veg for a few years now and its also
performing very well in veg.
since i still have several cases left i am still using them and doing a 1/2-n-1/2 in veg with the 4000k and the 7200K to see if i prefer one over the other.
the 4000k is $21 and 7200K is $43ish
if everything is equal in veg between the 2, I'll be using the $21bulb
pic on the previous page with the parablolics,
plants were veg'd and bloomed under the 4000K

 

[Pinball Wizard]

I bought a 5200K Ushio conversion bulb for my HPS ballast.

I haven't try it yet because it's not rated for an open fixture.
...and I have mixed emotions about that

Also I got a 7000k Ushio conversion that is rated for open fixtures.
I use it for vegging, but no real improvement over 4000k CMH.

 

[the gnome]

I bought a 5200K Ushio conversion bulb for my HPS ballast.

I haven't try it yet because it's not rated for an open fixture.
...and I have mixed emotions about that

Also I got a 7000k Ushio conversion that is rated for open fixtures.
I use it for vegging, but no real improvement over 4000k CMH.

not long ago i ran across a PLT MVR1000/U/TF lamp with a protected arc tube thats shatter proof,
same as my $21 Mh only $42.

 

[HunterJ]

Thanks. I really like the look of those fat vertical bulbs under the parabolics. A picture paints ...

Limited choice here, 4000k and 6500k 1000w MH only available from Ch. No 7200k so far. Local prices are $70+, cheaper to import and risks are the same, benefits increase with possibility of selling some on.

Do you have criteria for when to run the 7200k or only the 4000k? Is it strain dependent or Indica/Sativa mix related, have you noticed?

Just wondering here, late at night ... early morn now.

* Having trouble posting, hope this doesn't show up three times.

 

[the gnome]

the 4000K will run veg and bloom with no probs

 

[HunterJ]

Haven't finished your other thread - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243060 - where you convert to all MH but there are so many variables it is incumbent to test the premise. The work is much appreciated mate.

 

[the gnome]

I quit posting in that thread a year ago and shortly after Ive been all Mh.
when vapedg13 that posted in the 2nd page of that thread in 2012 with over 2 decades if indoor exp. and had been running a 4000Kmh for years,
I took his lead and by early 2013 things were worked out to my satisfaction
I went MH all the way with the 4000K in bloom and in veg with a 7200K off and on and haven't looked back.

good luck with your Mh expeirments hunter

 

[DrFever]

I just dont get it people watt per watt you are losing 15,000 lumen with a MH Bulb if you were going to do a actual MH vs HPS be like 600 watt MH Vs a 400 watt HPS hahaha Bottom line HPS wins in the Efficiency category because of its Higher lumen out put Period
But lets really talk about Efficiency HEAT hahaha the more heat produced by a bulb it becomes less efficient like a 600 watt HPs will produce less heat and more light then a 600 Watt Halogen bulb
I find it really funny .why does everyone want to try and debunk a proven method with thousands of documented grows?

I've used every bulb from the MH's...CMH....UV Bulbs...10k Bulbs...and etc....

T5's are the best for Veg ....and HPS is the true proven champ for flowering

if u guys wanna take ur knowledge to the next level...i recommend searching on the net for a dude named "gojo" his threads about lights..PAR...Lumens...and just about anything weed related etc..its mind boggling...

but yeah..HPS HPS HPS...any of u breeders disagree? dont all these stats in regards to ur strains...from taste..potency...yield...werent these all from the results of HPS

 

[rives]

It sounds like you need to spend a little more time getting a handle on the "mind boggling" stuff like PAR if you really want to understand - you know, kind of like what you were talking about back in post #212, only accurately applied. Lumens don't mean diddly to a plant. This is the same bullshit that you used to troll the LED threads with, Doc.

 

[DrFever]

i am just proving a point rives and you a re correct lumens means shit no need to be hostile towards me but being truth full here what i stated is true just like fluorescents are replacing metal halides due to their efficiency and economy. hmm i wonder if t5's veg better then MH Yup they are does HPS win over MH well pretty sure 99 percent of growers will agree YUP they do ,,, Will LED surpass HPS well the gape is closeing and trutfully i can see as prices are coming down that may be 5 - 10 years from now YUP LED will be the growers choice Enough said

 

[rives]

Sorry if it came of as hostile, Doc, that wasn't my intent. It's just that you are flogging the same old stuff that I've argued with you innumerable times - HPS works great, but is actually far less efficient than a number of options available and personally, I don't like looking at my plants under it. That's why I moved away from it about 30 years ago. For instance, why are your lights off in the above (nice) pictures? These below are under the CDM lamps, uncorrected color, days 46 and 73 -

 

[DrFever]

http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/SunmasterSpecSheets/41983.pdf check this out who needs to pay for a M set up when there giving them away for free

As some of you know I used to be an outside sales rep for Sunmaster Grow Lamps, I spoke to Jason (inside sales rep) with Sunmaster yesterday.

I told him about this blog and told me to post this to reach the growers and tell everyone here to call him for today only 5/21/14 between the hours of 8am to 5pm to receive this lamp for FREE! (must ship with in the borders of the United States)
time is up people lol could of had 10 - 20 1000 of these for free
More information on this lamp is in the link below; note this is a pulse start lamp and will be to be fired on electronic / digital ballasts only.

 

[Drek]

HPS works great, but is actually far less efficient than a number of options available and personally, I don't like looking at my plants under it.

Not to mention the staggering difference in PAR useable light at a given intensity, and the excessive heat/infrared given off.

@ Doc

The Sunmaster looks pretty killer, but I think I might prefer MH (CMH/CDM) at ~ 4k...for single bulb use, which is what I'm currently using now.


I love the look of those buds Rives. They seem to 'run' on and on in columns. Nice colors, high quality looking product. What strain is it?

Kinda reminds me of what my little grow is resembling, which is getting close to finishing up.

I'll post a quick shot when they're done.

 

[rives]

Thanks, Drek. It is Mosca's Tsi Fly. They are the densest plants that I've grown, by far.