First grow, want to grow in coco.

[papaduc]

I'm not here to debate you

The point of my posts isn't to debate with you, but to correct misinformation. Whether you in particular take on board what I say doesn't matter much to me.

That people coming to ICMag for info have a counter balance to some of the misconceptions you are putting out here, is what's important. I've said my piece on pretty much every one of those, so that's it from me. Take care.

I have been watching this because its the closest/cheapest to my location i can find.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-S-EC-Co...K_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item56375ff945
Looks cheap ass but im guessing its good enough, I havent placed an order yet though so up for opinions

That Ph pen's ok. It's a manual one so you have to put it into calibration fluid and turn the little screwdriver til it reads the same as the fluid. Build quality isn't great, so just be careful not to drop it on the floor or into water.

Here's one with temperature compensation for £20 which is important when measuring EC. Water measures differently at varying temperatures, so it's worth paying the extra fiver for one with that function.

Personally I'd get This + This + delivery for £25

 

[stoned40yrs]

I have been watching this because its the closest/cheapest to my location i can find.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-S-EC-Co...K_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item56375ff945
Looks cheap ass but im guessing its good enough, I havent placed an order yet though so up for opinions

I never tried the cheepos so it's impossible for me to say if they are worth it. As far as ph, use your drops to confirm the meter isn't way off, goodluck!

 

[Jnugg]

I use my cheapo TDS pen,works great and hasn't needed a recalibration yet.It's an HM handheld TDS meter I got for $36 and reads at a .5 conversion.

 

[DrBagseed]

I've been really busy the last days so haven't gotten around to order the fucking meters yet and I have to buy a pre-paid visa before I can order them so I cant do it before tomorrow.. Anyways I think im going for the two cheap ones papa linked.

Update on the ''plants'' : Somehow only 2 out of 7 planted seeds have started to crawl through the coco plugs, the rest is still ''underground''. Is it normal that it takes two days? Im getting paranoid and i'm thinking about trying to open a plug to see whats going on, but i'd rather not. I've put them in the bathroom now besides a UV aquarium, so crossing fingers that the rest pops out the ground soon....

 

[FlaDankster]

Patience............


And of course crossed fingers never hurt any thing much either.

 

[RetroGrow]

I have been watching this because its the closest/cheapest to my location i can find.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-S-EC-Co...K_Swimming_Pools_Hot_Tubs&hash=item56375ff945
Looks cheap ass but im guessing its good enough, I havent placed an order yet though so up for opinions

The one I would get is the one I linked. It's waterproof, and shockproof. Has been dropped many times without problems. It is rugged. Has lasted for years. I would not skimp on a cheap pen, since the pen is so important. You will be using it every day and it will last for years. That's the one thing I would not skimp on. Worth the extra dollars for reliability and peace of mind. Cheap ass pen=not waterproof, shockproof. Will be broken in short time. Just my opinion. Sometimes, you get what you pay for.

 

[stoned40yrs]

The one I would get is the one I linked. It's waterproof, and shockproof. Has been dropped many times without problems. It is rugged. Has lasted for years. I would not skimp on a cheap pen, since the pen is so important. You will be using it every day and it will last for years. That's the one thing I would not skimp on. Worth the extra dollars for reliability and peace of mind. Cheap ass pen=not waterproof, shockproof. Will be broken in short time. Just my opinion. Sometimes, you get what you pay for.

He lives in England or some where over there. Might not be as easy to get that brand.

 

[RetroGrow]

He lives in England or some where over there. Might not be as easy to get that brand.

That's entirely possible. Oakton is a "name" brand though. I would think you could find it on Ebay. Know it's on Amazon, but don't know a thing about ordering stuff from U.K.

 

[Jnugg]

Patience young grasshoppa

 

[papaduc]

Don't open the plugs whatever you do. You risk breaking the tap root and if you do that, seedling gone. Whatever will come up will come up in it's own time. Some might take days longer than others. Be patient.

With regards to the Pens, if you're in the UK they're just as easy to get hold of, and don't worry about the cheap pens breaking etc, I've actually got that cheap ass yellow Ph pen myself and even though I only bought it as a quick backup when my eutech died, it's still going strong now nearly a year later. It calibrates properly and holds it. For £7.50 it's been a steal.

For my EC I use a bluelab.

Get quality when you can afford it. If you're going to pay for something, pay for the best. The oakton ph-1&2 are low-mid range and in terms of reliability won't be much better than the cheap ones.

If you want a good one look for double junction rather than single junction electrodes, and replaceable electrodes. The former means better reliability, the latter means that when it does go, you only have to replace the electrode and not the expensive pen.

In the meantime, those cheap ones will do you fine.

Oh and by the way, if you're in the UK those links are now This Ph pen and This EC pen

 

[DrBagseed]

I searched for oakton meters but none came up from the UK so I'm going with the same ones papa linked, but from another seller since he wouldn't ship out off uk Thanks for the help guys.

Update: Most of the seeds have now penetrated the coco, but none of them have left the seed, seems like they are struggling to break fully out of the seed. Almost as if they need a helping hand. Would you guys just let them continue the struggle or try to break them free from the seed?

 

[papaduc]

The new links in the post above are both from the UK. I'm in the UK myself. When you come to buy a good Ph pen you want to look at Eutech double junction replaceable probe pens. This is one.

With the seeds, let them break from the shell. You can help them along, but it's a delicate process. They should break the shell themselves in two days.

If they don't and some get stuck, rest your hand on a surface to keep it still and pinch the seed between two fingers with that hand to keep it still. With your other hand use something small and pointy like a toothpick to just delicately wedge the shell open.

Usually it's the membrane which keeps the cotyledons stuck together once you've got the shell off. They'll break out of that as they grow. You can remove this too by squeezing a certain way, but this is hard to explain and tbh, I would only do either of these things at all if they can't break from the seed themselves. Give them a couple more days mate.

 

[DrBagseed]

I just got the ph meter you linked for a few gbp more from another seller, the one you linked went out of stock today, and I got the cheapo ec meter I had linked earlier, wasnt able to buy the one you linked because there was some complications with shipping rates or whatever, I got both for 35£ including shipping so I'll be happy if they last me for one grow.

Damn, that does indeed sound like a delicate process, im better of giving it some more time before I most likely screw them up by trying to get the seed of myself. I've watered the coco plugs with like 1/4th strength of rhizotonic wich seems to have done some good.

 

[RetroGrow]

I searched for oakton meters but none came up from the UK so I'm going with the same ones papa linked, but from another seller since he wouldn't ship out off uk Thanks for the help guys.

Update: Most of the seeds have now penetrated the coco, but none of them have left the seed, seems like they are struggling to break fully out of the seed. Almost as if they need a helping hand. Would you guys just let them continue the struggle or try to break them free from the seed?

This is a common occurrence. Personally I get them out of their shells when stuck, as they will die if left in there too long. They may have used up all their energy pushing up from the plugs, hence the recommendation to germ in paper towels first, then transplant to medium. Getting them out of their shells, and the membrane that is beneath the shells is a delicate operation. I do it using a dental pick, and while wearing these magnifying glasses:
http://www.amazon.com/Donegan-OptiV...392844709&sr=1-1&keywords=Headband+magnifiers
You steady the seed with one finger, while picking gently at the crack in it with the pick. It will open. Then, if the membrane is also stuck (probably will be), you very gently pick at it, just scratching it's surface, and it will eventually open. Again, this is a delicate operation, and I would not try it without some kind of magnification. It works for me every time, but I have done it many times. You have to be patient & gentle.
Again, germing in paper towels and then transplanting to your starter mix/coco is a far better method, as seedlings sometimes use up all their energy trying to push up from plugs, etc. Of course, papadoc is going to contradict whatever I say, because that's who he is.
But, especially for a newbie, paper towels rock, and seeds germ in less than 24 hours, then you put them in their medium, while they still have all their energy. If you have a magnifier of some type, try the dental pick technique on one of them. Once you've done it one time, it becomes simple. Just don't dig into it and pierce the seedling. But don't just let them sit there stuck in their shells, as they have no energy left, and will die. Also, mist them with water continuously, as that will help them open.
Good luck......

 

[Jnugg]

Just let them do their thing.

Next time,germ in a moist paper towel kept in a baggie.When taproots are 1/4" to 1/2" long,transplant to your medium,taproot down.

I like transplanting them to rapid rooter plugs then once a good root system is in place I transplant to the growing medium.

 

[papaduc]

Of course, papadoc is going to correct whatever I say that is wrong, which is quite a lot of work for him I must admit

Free of charge as well.

Nothing wrong with germinating in paper towels, just like there's nothing wrong with germinating straight into coco. But to say one method is better than the other, or that seedlings use all their energy to push up through the coco is, unless they've been buried far too deep, not true.

I use paper towels to germinate my cannabis seeds. I don't use this method with any other seeds. I think the price of them makes me impatient to see which have germinated... There's no scientific reasoning behind it whatsoever In fact, when you understand how a seedling works, you can see that maybe starting them in paper towels isn't the most efficient start to life

When the seedling first breaks the shell with it's tap root, what it does initially is use gravity to direct which way the tap root will grow. This is called Geotropism.

At first it will grow up, then back down. Then it will begin pushing up towards the surface. The reason for this is to create a little hook by which to gain leverage which will pull or help pull the shell of it's head as it exits the soil.

It's why when you start your seeds in paper towels you see the taproot doesn't always just shoot out in one long direction, it sometimes contorts one way then another. In it's natural state, this would have created a nice little hook in the coco then pushed it's way up. In the paper towel it can't do that. So it's initial energy is actually wasted by growing it's root along a paper towel.

But... what we can do to compensate is, when the tap root has formed, we place the little seedling so the head is just popping out of the soil, and in doing so we fast forward the part where it has to push itself up.

That's all we're doing. Compensating for what it would have done anyway. Not saving it energy in any way.

That's not contradicting btw. It's just sharing some stuff. Hope it helps.

 

[Jnugg]

Never had a problem germinating in a moist paper towel.That's why you transplant to growing medium of choice or rooting plugs when the taproot is 1/4" to 1/2" long.

 

[papaduc]

Never had a problem either. Like I say, which way you do it is up to you. For a beginner, personally I'd recommend the most fuss-free approach and just plant it 5mm deep in the coco the water it. Other people might advise different.

Wherever it is should be warm though, whether it's in a towel or coco.

 

[Jnugg]

For a beginner I would believe the paper towel method best,as beginners tend to either overwater or underwater...but almost always overwater.

 

[papaduc]

Whichever way feels comfortable I suppose.