First grow, want to grow in coco.

[RetroGrow]

Hey man, thats some nice trees
The canna nutrients+canna coco are on there way, so no more having to decide about that, feels good.
Wow, I never realized I could make my own hempy buckets, wish I knew that yesterday, I spent like 60$ on some expencive smart pots. Thanks for the tip though, I might still make some.

I might look into silica but I think it might be to late for this grow, or is it a liquid?

You saying you haven't really ran into any problems growing in coco is also very comforting, I'm not sure if I will veg my plants as long as you, but your picture makes me want to do it hehe, nice yield also.

Have a good day people!

Silica is liquid, and is very cheap. Would not grow without it. I got rid of my smart pots after trying Hempys. The yield from Hempys is at least double that from "smart" pots. Those trees were grown in 2 gallon buckets from Home Depot. In the picture, you can see they were just transplanted to 5 gallon buckets, only because they were tipping over due to being top heavy. You need high ceilings to grow trees. Also they were done with vertical lighting (bare bulbs). No reason to waste money on hoods, when bare bulbs give you 40% more light, and much greater yields. Nothing wrong with Canna nutes, but you seem to be on a budget where you didn't have enough for a PH pen, so other, much cheaper nutrients are available which are just as good or better, and the money you saved could have been used on other things.
Read this thread by Hempy on how to do coco in Hempy buckets. Coco is a hydro medium, and Hempy buckets are a passive hydro system that give huge yields:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=147954
Your yields in smart pots will be about half of what you would get in Hempys. Do the math.

 

[RetroGrow]

Fuck it...after a half week and no turn for the better,I'm taking cuttings from the mom and going back to FFOF.

All this pH needing to be spot on ontop of other bullshit is just that,bullshit.

Anyone that says coco is easier and more forgiving than soil is full of shit...FULL OF IT!

At this point if I don't go back to soil,I don't get any meds this year.

Soil FTMFW!

Coco is as easy as it gets. So simple, even a caveman could do it. I guess that excludes you. You must have crap coco. If you're satisfied with puny yields, stick with dirt, but don't try to scare others away from coco just because your skills are lacking, especially in the coco forum.

 

[Jnugg]

So .8x gpw from a 400w light with random various bagseed in soil is a puny yeild?

You're hillarious!

 

[DHF]

Ok Retro.....Nuff is enuff....Rubbin salt in the wound ain`t the proper way to treat folks no matter if you shit golden colas out of coco ......

Jnugg had /has issues and ONLY came in this thread to warn DB about the potential hazards of coco , and no fuckin matter how much success YOU`VE had with the shit , I`ve witnessed 100 times the failure rates over the yrs....even runnin canna coco.....that said.....

Stop shoving shit down folks throats and postin absolutes when nothing could be further from the truth......EVERY new setup has learning curves and is to be experienced and learned from.... sure.....

With a good working knowledge of growin dope that I KNOW you have , makes dialin coco a whole lot easier , ESPECIALLY usin the most expensive brand on the market , but .......

Everyone can`t afford Canna OR has access to it where they live , and THAT`S where I`ve always tried ta HELP folks figure out and dial coco`s properties and absolute potential issues with the brands they were able to use , and thus......

All my rules on making sure all I`s are dotted and T`s are crossed when dealing with the "inferior" shit that constitutes 90% of the market guaranteed , so again......

Please chill the hell out and help folks like I know you can and have in the past....Jnugg`s good folks and not to be treated like a chump newbie , and preachin coco so hard really isn`t necessary to all that enter this sub forum cuz they wouldn`t be here if they weren`t already lookin at takin the plunge.....anyways...

Lil help Retro.....Let`s tone it down and help folks Bro , regardless of how easy coco`s been for you , and it`s appreciated...

Peace....DHF.........

 

[papaduc]

Stop shoving shit down folks throats and postin absolutes when nothing could be further from the truth......EVERY new setup has learning curves and is to be experienced and learned from.... sure.....

Well said.

I actually think Jnugg got some bad coco, and for that reason should get some good stuff before judging it... But... some of the claims being made are very misleading to a new grower. There's no magic formula to getting huge yields other than experience and skill.

Hempy buckets, like coco, will only double your yield if you weren't using the comparison pots/soil properly. A skilled dedicated grower will get more from a soil grow than a poor one will in any hydro setup, every time.

The reason I talk about getting a one part veg feed and running it at 1.0ec, and understanding the signs of hunger and excess, is because these are not a set plan.. they're the basics of growing and can be applied anywhere afterwards.

It's not about it being better than maxibloom, it's about giving you a good base line from which you can learn to fine tune your plants, to raise or lower your feed strength.. to control the plants. Once you know that, you can grow in any medium using any nutes.

 

[RetroGrow]

Ok Retro.....Nuff is enuff....Rubbin salt in the wound ain`t the proper way to treat folks no matter if you shit golden colas out of coco ......

Jnugg had /has issues and ONLY came in this thread to warn DB about the potential hazards of coco , and no fuckin matter how much success YOU`VE had with the shit , I`ve witnessed 100 times the failure rates over the yrs....even runnin canna coco.....that said.....

Stop shoving shit down folks throats and postin absolutes when nothing could be further from the truth......EVERY new setup has learning curves and is to be experienced and learned from.... sure.....

With a good working knowledge of growin dope that I KNOW you have , makes dialin coco a whole lot easier , ESPECIALLY usin the most expensive brand on the market , but .......

Everyone can`t afford Canna OR has access to it where they live , and THAT`S where I`ve always tried ta HELP folks figure out and dial coco`s properties and absolute potential issues with the brands they were able to use , and thus......

All my rules on making sure all I`s are dotted and T`s are crossed when dealing with the "inferior" shit that constitutes 90% of the market guaranteed , so again......

Please chill the hell out and help folks like I know you can and have in the past....Jnugg`s good folks and not to be treated like a chump newbie , and preachin coco so hard really isn`t necessary to all that enter this sub forum cuz they wouldn`t be here if they weren`t already lookin at takin the plunge.....anyways...

Lil help Retro.....Let`s tone it down and help folks Bro , regardless of how easy coco`s been for you , and it`s appreciated...

Peace....DHF.........

First of all, I have, and am here trying to help people. Jnugg is in the coco forum talkin' shit about coco, trying to scare people off. To me, coco is as simple as it gets, including the first time I tried it. Loved it right off the bat, and have never had any issues with it. If he's having issues, it's probably because of bad coco, which was already pointed out by several people. All I said, after reading multiple negative posts about coco from him, is that he's probably using an inferior brand. If he was using Canna, or similar premium bagged coco, there shouldn't be any problem. So, to the OP, I was pointing out that he shouldn't be stressing or listening to the naysayers. That's who I was posting for, not Jnuggs, who has been rude and foul mouthed as far as I'm concerned, telling people that they are all full of shit just because he is having some unknown issue. That doesn't mean everyone else is full of shit. Coco rocks as far as I am concerned, and it is simple. Most people who try it love it, hence it's popularity. Sorry if my method of communicating doesn't meet your standard of political correctness, but we're all different, and that's what makes the world go round. As far as using the most expensive brands, that only applies to coco in my case. I do not use the most expensive brands of nutrients, after having tried them all. I use the very cheap Maxibloom, K.I.S.S. method, and that's what I would recommend to any newbie, along with Hempy buckets, as per Hempy's thread, which I posted a link to. That coco needs some special kind of nutrients is a myth, IMO, and I have never needed to use cal/mag with tap water. To me, it doesn't get any simpler than that. And, basically foolproof. I've been here for 6 years under this handle, a couple more under another handle, trying MY best to help folks. Not trying to rain on your parade in any way, but I did take exception to Jnuggs remarks. But that's just me.......not shoving anything down anyone's throats, anymore than you are with your recommendations. Just making MY recommendations, in good faith, just as you are.
It's a WEED site. Kind of surprising that political correctness is so important here, and that people can be so thin skinned.
Peace.

 

[papaduc]

Retro, despite our recent disagreements, I don't see you an enemy. So I'd appreciate it if you'd hear me out and take this as it's meant.

Political correctness means nothing to me. What matters more on a message board is open mindedness. It's also give and take...

What you're asking here is that J takes a step back and acknowledges what you and other people like myself have found through their experiences. That he applies logic and realises that his problems weren't to do with coco, but a bad batch of it or the wrong approach.

But... this is essentially exactly what me and you bumped heads over just recently in another thread, which makes reading through this feel a little bit ironic, even a bit surreal.

You were talking about foxfarms starter mix blowing coco out of the water.
I gave you the same advice you're giving J now. I've even posted pictures to show the results you get in coco from seed stage if you do it right. But you refused to take on board what I was saying.

I asked you not to warn people off starting seeds in coco based on your bad experience because this is the coco forum and people are here to learn about growing in coco through all stages.

What you're getting mad at Jnugg for is the same thing you were doing the other day.

You're right; whenever someone shares experience and can back it up, it's the obligation of any logical person to take it on board. That applies to everyone equally.

Growing in coco is a piece of piss, I agree.

 

[FlaDankster]

No,it's not dankster.

Oh come on Nugg.........i be pokin at yas bro.



I have used Canna and the bontaincare cocogro.

Never rinsed.............then i got a HOT ASS bag of the cocogro.My blue kushes weren't to happy about it.I did what i could and finished the grow and reused the same stuff and things were back to normal.

I stick to the Canna bags.

Maybe yas could rock a single pot like Snow Crash mentioned?

 

[DHF]

Ok...Freak fuckin snowstorm knocked my internet out and plopped 6" of snow down in my cowpasture last night or I would`ve responded sooner Retro......now....

As I said earlier , your experience with coco is your experience , and I assure you that ALL tapwater ain`t comprised of calcium and magnesium deposits as to where no cal/mag supplements are needed , PLUS using expensive ass bagged Canna coco that`s been pre-charged with calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate AND buffered is MORE likely the reason why you`ve not experienced any deficiencies or imbalances and ph lockout , but I digress....

I try to SHOW folks what CAN happen if coco`s not monitored and pre-charged properly before ever even planting , but your way is only argumentative with blinders on and tunnel vision , so that`s where we stand Retro....

I didn`t come here to dawg you out yesterday , I came hereto ask you to back off and tone down your constantly fuckin with folks that don`t deserve it , and yeah....

This is a weedsite , and I`ve got the thickest skin there EVER was from back during the Krusty war days , but respect and open-mindedness will go a loooong way in keeping you here for another 6-8 yrs , cuz keeping up your know-it-all attitude and talkin down to folks will guaranteed head you straight out the door with the ban hammer .....bet on it....

I respect your knowledge and experience , and don`t worry bout steppin on my toes cuz any and ALL help is greatly appreciated with helpin new folks , but your way ain`t the way folks take to easily by havin things rammed down their throat as the only way to do things , so please try to refrain from dawgin folks out in the future , and lastly......

Remember what it was like when YOU first started murderin plants left and right cuz I KNOW you did in the beginning , cuz we ALL did till we got some runs under our belts to figure out how we were fuckin up and fixed shit.....

Peace....DHF.........

 

[RetroGrow]

Knowing that Canna coco is problem free, why would I use anything else? I don't use it because of price, I use it because it works. Now I no longer use Canna nutes because of the ridiculous price, when I get better results with Maxibloom or Floranova Bloom at a fraction of the price. Since we are dealing with a coco newbie who didn't have the funds for a PH pen, I thought it prudent to recommend saving money on nutes and spending that $ on a PH pen. I recommend the K.I.S.S. method to everyone, as it is as simple as it gets, and cheap. I didn't invent the K.I.S.S. method, but once I tried it, I would never go back to expensive Canna nutes, which I used for years, until I found something "better". I also recommend Hempy buckets because they are truly foolproof, especially important for newbies, and provide much greater yield than any other kind of container. That's why I posted the links to those two threads, especially valuable to newbies to eliminate any potential problems. And, if you've never tried the KISS method, perhaps you should. I have tried every method/nute line, and I have found the KISS method to be outstanding, at a MUCH lower price, with no mixing involved, no charts or calculations, just a spoon that's included which measures out the proper amount-foolproof. As far as my "dawging" out of Jnugg, I didn't see it that way. I was responding to him calling everyone "full of shit" because he had an issue, an issue probably related to "bad" coco, of which there is plenty.
I do think however, that you are way out of line threatening me with the "ban hammer". You didn't like the "not helpful" button, well I don't like the "report" button. I am not a snitch. I have never reported anybody and have no one on my "ignore" list. I believe in free speech. The founder of this site sits in prison right now, where I have been myself, because of people "reporting", which is a euphemism for snitching in my book. I don't "report", and I don't "ignore", even if I disagree with the person or don't like him/her. I still respect their right to voice their opinion, even if I disagree with it. I find it ironic that there is a "report" button on Gypsy's site. I think they should get rid of that. That's MY opinion. You may disagree. That's you're right.
Peace, out......

 

[RetroGrow]

You were talking about foxfarms starter mix blowing coco out of the water.
I asked you not to warn people off starting seeds in coco based on your bad experience because this is the coco forum and people are here to learn about growing in coco through all stages.

See, there you go, twisting my words again. I am not warning people not to start seeds in coco. I have done it many times. Having said that, I also am open to trying new things, so I tried Foxfarms Seed Starter mix with michorrizae fungi, and found it FAR superior to starting in coco. It is NOT compost as you alleged. It's not available in your country, so I know you haven't tried it. It is a very light sphagnum peat moss, which has everything a seedling needs with no possibility of burning, and it transplants perfectly into coco. So, after trying it and seeing the result, ie., really fast growing and vigorous seedlings, I would not go back to starting in coco. It's simple and foolproof, perfect for newbies with no possibility of screwing up. Don't knock it until you've tried it. When my solo cup fills with roots, I transplant into straight Canna coco, and it's off to the races, feeding full strength. I've seen it give better results, or I would not post it, yet you want to argue about it when you have not tried it. And, yes, my seeds (fresh) germinate in less than 24 hours in a warm, dark environment in paper towels, then straight into the starter mix. Get a heat mat and you will see it.
Do a side by side with the mix I am referencing, which I have done, and you will see what I am talking about. I am not going to argue with you about it anymore. It's pointless. I know what works for me, and that's what I go with, after having done it both ways.

 

[DrBagseed]

Calm down guys, i appreciate the help but please dont be mean

News: I got my grow tent today, I should have done some measuring before I bought it because I had to place it somewhere you can see like 1/3 of the tent from outside the window.. I might have to move it down to the first floor but im scared that the people under will smell it and/or hear noise from it, i donno lol, happy to have it anyways but wish it was 10cm lower so I could fit it anywhere in the house.

Coco and nutes are most likely arriving tomorrow so I'm starting anytime now.

 

[DrBagseed]

See, there you go, twisting my words again. I am not warning people not to start seeds in coco. I have done it many times. Having said that, I also am open to trying new things, so I tried Foxfarms Seed Starter mix with michorrizae fungi, and found it FAR superior to starting in coco. It is NOT compost as you alleged. It's not available in your country, so I know you haven't tried it. It is a very light sphagnum peat moss, which has everything a seedling needs with no possibility of burning, and it transplants perfectly into coco. So, after trying it and seeing the result, ie., really fast growing and vigorous seedlings, I would not go back to starting in coco. It's simple and foolproof, perfect for newbies with no possibility of screwing up. Don't knock it until you've tried it. When my solo cup fills with roots, I transplant into straight Canna coco, and it's off to the races, feeding full strength. I've seen it give better results, or I would not post it, yet you want to argue about it when you have not tried it. And, yes, my seeds (fresh) germinate in less than 24 hours in a warm, dark environment in paper towels, then straight into the starter mix. Get a heat mat and you will see it.
Do a side by side with the mix I am referencing, which I have done, and you will see what I am talking about. I am not going to argue with you about it anymore. It's pointless. I know what works for me, and that's what I go with, after having done it both ways.

I read the thread you linked about hempy buckets, but somehow managed to still be unsure about how they are made/used.

Is it basicly filling the bucket with say 4-5 cm of perlite or perlite/vermiculite and have just one draining hole right above 4-5 cm?

 

[DHF]

Hempy buckets have a hole drilled in a plain 2-5 gal bucket 1-1/2-2" above the bottom and filled with medium......simple...babyshit......

Smaller containers need fed more often depending on said medium , larger containers need fed less as a rule....

Hope things work out DB....Holler if I can help , just take ALL advice with a grain of salt and do your homework......

Peace...DHF.........

 

[BlackBuds]

just take ALL advice with a grain of salt and do your homework......

Peace...DHF.........

So true except when it comes to DHF, take ALL of his advice.

Can I just say that between DHF, Papaduc and Retrogrow, despite some minor differences you have all helped me tremedously move from soil to coco. I am now on my 3rd grow and have the shit dialed thanks to you guys. You 3 have saved me hundreds if not thousands of dollars in failed grows or wasted products.
Regardless, you will most likely make some mistakes your first few attempts but you have the right people here to guide you through.
respect++

and good luck!

 

[papaduc]

I tried Foxfarms Seed Starter mix with michorrizae fungi, and found it FAR superior to starting in coco.

There are a lot of good starter mixes in the UK, some coco based, some peat based. It's how I started in coco - start in seed mix, transplant to coco. There's nothing wrong with that way of doing things.

All I'm saying is next time you do a side by side, do it with a feed better suited to a seedling, like a 3-1-3 veg feed or a starter food, and use it at 1.0ec from the minute they open their leaves, and I guarantee you'll match the growth rates you're seeing in the sphagnum moss.

Whether you try it or not really doesn't matter, it's no big deal. I'm just saying you can match the growth rates in any medium right from seedling stage in coco as long as you feed it properly.

 

[RetroGrow]

I've already found what works best for me. But you use what works best for you. I don't use veg feed at all. I use Maxibloom full strength after the starter mix. No need to check EC for me. I like things simple. Saves me time. No need to worry about it. I am already dialed in. Just a suggestion for the newbies, for simplicity's sake. You know, the ones who don't have pens/meters......like the OP.

 

[RetroGrow]

I read the thread you linked about hempy buckets, but somehow managed to still be unsure about how they are made/used.

Is it basicly filling the bucket with say 4-5 cm of perlite or perlite/vermiculite and have just one draining hole right above 4-5 cm?

It can be any plastic container, of any size really, although they don't need to be large. It is a passive hydro system (no pumps or tubes needed), with a reservoir on the bottom which contains your nutrient solution. You put chunky perlite or something similar (no vermiculite) in the bottom 2 inches, and add coco on top. There is a single drain whole, and you water/feed to runoff. You have a saucer underneath to catch the runoff. Frequent watering/feeding (daily) gives better results than less frequent, because it replenishes the oxygen which stimulates root/plant growth. Plants get really huge in them, relative to any other type container. Hempy designed the system, and initially he used perlite/vermiculite, but switched to coco when it became available, and got better results. It's pictured in the thread I linked, but there is another, older thread, called The Hempy Bucket thread. You can look at that thread, last page, where Hush just posted pictures of many different kind of containers you can use. I prefer two gallon buckets, but anything will work. Even in a two gallon bucket, you can get trees.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98419&page=251
It's a long thread. You don't have to read the whole thing, but it helps. The basics are explained in the beginning, and you can start at the end and work your way backwards for pictures. Everyone who tries it loves it, and you won't go back to any other container after using it. Not uncommon to get 12-13 ounces from a single bucket, given enough veg time. Even with a one month veg, you will get big plants, in the 5-6 ounce range, strain dependent. It's also foolproof, as you can't over water it with coco.

 

[papaduc]

I've already found what works best for me. But you use what works best for you. I don't use veg feed at all. I use Maxibloom full strength after the starter mix. No need to check EC for me. I like things simple. Saves me time. No need to worry about it. I am already dialed in. Just a suggestion for the newbies, for simplicity's sake. You know, the ones who don't have pens/meters......like the OP.

I'm not trying to get you to change your methods though, that's the point.

If you apply the same logic to the conversation with Jnugg as you did to this with me, you'd say ok, do what works best for you. You wouldn't challenge him on it.

The point you made to J is that he couldn't blame the coco for what he did wrong. The same thing applies to you; If you didn't use the proper methods in coco with the seedlings, then you can't give a proper opinion on how good it is for them vs starter mix. Until you do, you can't say with any validity that foxfarms blows coco out of the water. Just like Jnugg can't say growing in soil is better than growing in coco.

If you don't want to try it, that's up to you. And if Jnugg doesn't want to try coco again, that's up to him.

But there is a way to get as good or better results than you do in soil/starter mix, if you're willing to use the right methods.

That's all I'm saying.

Not uncommon to get 12-13 ounces from a single bucket, given enough veg time. Even with a one month veg, you will get big plants, in the 5-6 ounce range, strain dependent. It's also foolproof, as you can't over water it with coco.

It's important to know that how much you yield is also dependent on a lot of other factors, and that you can get just as much from any container if you're following the right methods. Hempys are cool, but so are root pouches. I prefer root pouch to smart pot for ease of use and lack of mess. They both do the same thing - prevent root circling.

 

[RetroGrow]

You're beating a dead horse. I get it that you really like to argue, and will pick @ anything I post. Not playin'.