blackstrap mollasses

[RonSmooth]

i've some cured bud i used mo on...they taste alot like rum cured.
fact i use mo consistently, wouldn't think about stopping.
my pots smell like gods green earth.
but sure as shit wouldn't be using it if i were using salt based nutes.

And you believe that the molasses caused the rum taste that you may have noticed in your finished product?

Because rum is distilled from molasses?

What does the smell of your pots have to do with molasses?

What if you found out that molasses did nothing for your plant at all. Like, they did a scientific study, published and everything.

Would you still use it?

 

[al70]

Hi Ron, i know of a lot of people who grow in coco, with chem. nutes. they all flush their plants for two weeks before harvest, why, to get rid of the shity taste of the chems. so i figure if a plant is flushed with mollasses for the last two weeks surely their gonna have a little hint of sweetness to them, if ye can taste the chems i'd say ye can taste the mollasses, but if a scientific study reveals that it does nothing whatsoever for a plant then i'll stop useing it but not untill then, goodluck.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Hi Ron, i know of a lot of people who grow in coco, with chem. nutes. they all flush their plants for two weeks before harvest, why, to get rid of the shity taste of the chems. so i figure if a plant is flushed with mollasses for the last two weeks surely their gonna have a little hint of sweetness to them, if ye can taste the chems i'd say ye can taste the mollasses, but if a scientific study reveals that it does nothing whatsoever for a plant then i'll stop useing it but not untill then, goodluck.

Maybe these 3 points might clear up some confusion--

1. Studies have shown that adding MO to crops will increase the plants' brix numbers.
2. Plants are not able "uptake" the sugar/carbs found in MO...but can uptake some of the nutes in MO like calcium and potassium.
3. Feeding the microherd during the last few weeks with MO will do many things--including the production of natural NPK (from increased bacterial activity).

Hope this helps. Cheers!

 

[Gelado`]

http://www.harc-hspa.com/publications/VEG3.pdf

The reason plants may yellow when hit with molasses is the additional C drops the N ratio in the soil; if you overfertilize, molasses can be used to reduce the available N and prevent burn. You want your plants to yellow out at the end of flowering!

Regardless of the mechanisms involve, molasses should indeed increase yields. I feed sugar every week, in one form or another. I use brown sugar and palm sugar now, but I will be using molasses too. I believe my plants enjoy the varied diet they get.

 

[Jellyfish]

got it sat, when i typed in blackstrap mollasses nothing came up, so i just tried mollasses and i got my answer.

You will probably get even MORE/BETTER search results when you spell 'molasses' correctly!

 

[EclipseFour20]

http://www.harc-hspa.com/publications/VEG3.pdf

The reason plants may yellow when hit with molasses is the additional C drops the N ratio in the soil; if you overfertilize, molasses can be used to reduce the available N and prevent burn. You want your plants to yellow out at the end of flowering!

Regardless of the mechanisms involve, molasses should indeed increase yields. I feed sugar every week, in one form or another. I use brown sugar and palm sugar now, but I will be using molasses too. I believe my plants enjoy the varied diet they get.

Hmmmm, think you might rethink your conclusion--"molasses can be used to reduce the available N and prevent burn."

Good study and as most MO studies, you gotta go to Hawaii! But from what I gleaned is in the conclusion portion: "There may be a change in nutritional balance of the soil, in soil structure and in the soil microbial populations. Molasses provides a carbon source which alters the C/N ratio in soil and this affects the soil microbiota which in turn effects the available nutrients."

I am unable to see where they concluded MO reduces available nitrogen...rather that Carbon/Nitrogen ratio is changed due to increase in Carbon from MO (numerator increase--no change to denominator).

It would be a great "silver bullet" if MO indeed reduced N, but sorry, can not connect the same dots you did. Am I missing something?

Thanks!

 

[Moonjuice5050]

Interesting thread I may be using too much molasses using it every other day although all my plants seem to be healthy as hell, I think IM going to try cutting it back to once a week and see if the taste gets better, does anyone add molasses during the two week flush?

 

[Gelado`]

lol my bad, the nitrogen conclusion didn't come from the study. It's a pretty widely known fact about molasses in agricultural use. I'm now baked, so I can't be bothered to Google anymore, but here's a link:

http://www.thesoilguy.com/SG/Molasses

"Addition of foods that cause rapid bacterial growth can tie-up nitrate nitrogen so fast, and so effectively that plant growth can be harmed, and even stopped. Bacteria win in competition with plants for N in soil, and thus plants can be killed as the result of lack of N. Of course, the solution to this problem is NOT to kill the bacteria, but rather to establish normal nutrient cycling processes once again. How? Get the protozoa and bacterial-feeding nematodes back to work!"

 

[headband 707]

Yeah I love using Molasses
Blackstrap molasses is high in calcium, magnesium, iron and potassium. It also contains sulfur and a host of micronutrients. Using molasses as fertilizer provides plants with a quick source of energy and encourages the growth of beneficial microorganisms.
Types of Molasses Fertilizer
Unsulphered blackstrap molasses is commonly added to organic fertilizers to give plants the necessary carbohydrates and trace minerals that they need to be healthy. Molasses can be added to organic liquid fertilizers, compost tea, alfalfa meal tea and kelp, to name a few.
When molasses is added to organic fertilizers, it provides food for the healthy microbes in the soil. The greater amount of microbial activity in the soil, the healthier plants will be. Add molasses at a rate of 1 to 3 tablespoons to 1 gallon of fertilizer for best results.
Molasses can also be added to water and sprayed on plant leaves or poured on the soil. When the molasses is sprayed directly on plant leaves, the nutrients and sugar are absorbed quickly, and nutrients are immediately available.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Geldo...now for a little "complication" that got me thinking a little differently. Here is something I picked up during my Raw Milk investigation--

1. Soil will have between 3-4,000# of bacteria per acre (this can vary depending on sprays, soil type, temps etc...)

2. Bacteria are 90% protein

3. One can calculate/estimate the amount of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous by knowing the bacteria counts. Typically speaking bacteria counts will result in 10-14% nitrogen, 1% potassium and 3% phosphorous.

4. The bacteria that are most influential in growth live in in the top 6" of the oil.

5. Many thousands of different bacteria live in the soil

6. Bacteria need a balanced nutrition for good growth. Raw Milk is the perfect food.

7. Some of the bacteria will double the counts/weight every 15 minutes with the proper nutrition and temps (55 degrees F or better)

8. it does not take much for the bacteria to naturally put out 140 lb's of nitrogen per acre..and other nutrients.

So...my rationale is--if we feed the microherd, if bacteria double every 15 minutes, if bacteria are capable of producing 140 lbs of N per acre (NPK of 14-1-3), then total soil Nitrogen should actually increase--or at the very least remain the same without any Nitrogen loss. But hey, the alphabet soup behind my name has nothing to do with growing...and I could be 100% backassward.

Ahhh....it seems that in my world, "complications" have a way of generating new understandings of old things!

Cheers!

BTW...I "weigh" my MO (1 ml = 1.4 grams); 1000% easier than measuring with a spoon.

 

[Gelado`]

The nitrogen the bacteria would release would come from the milk, which contains a lot of protein, but some of the nitrogen would be used for reproduction by the bacteria themselves!

The bacteria themselves are a source of nitrogen, but only if they die!

Basically, bacteria can feed off the sugar in molasses and increase in numbers. Some of these bacterium species can make nitrogen available from food sources in phytoavailable forms, but they need to be fed nitrogen to convert it, and in doing so, they need nitrogen of their own for reproduction and cellular processes.

 

[EclipseFour20]

The nitrogen the bacteria would release would come from the milk, which contains a lot of protein, but some of the nitrogen would be used for reproduction by the bacteria themselves!

The bacteria themselves are a source of nitrogen, but only if they die!

Basically, bacteria can feed off the sugar in molasses and increase in numbers. Some of these bacterium species can make nitrogen available from food sources in phytoavailable forms, but they need to be fed nitrogen to convert it, and in doing so, they need nitrogen of their own for reproduction and cellular processes.

Hmmm....I may be wrong, but I thought bacteria played a huge role in nitrification process--other than contributing their dead carcass. I do know there is a group called "nitrifying bacteria"...defined as, "Any of various soil bacteria that change ammonia or ammonium into nitrite or change nitrite into nitrate as part of the nitrogen cycle. Bacteria of the genus Nitrosomonas are the primary converters of ammonium into nitrite (which is actually toxic to plants), and bacteria of the genus Nitrobacter oxidize the nitrite to form nitrate ions (which are readily absorbed and usable by plants). Most of the nitrogen contained in fertilizer is made available to plants by these bacteria."

And then we have the hundreds of "microbial inoculents" used in the agricultural industry...for what? Dead carcasses....nah, the inoculents increase the microherd, which in turn contribute to the production NPK, at least that is what I understand.

BTW, that 8 point discussion was about bacteria's role in the soil in general--any NPK contribution from Raw Milk would be negligible...the application rates for Raw Milk are 2-5 gallons/acre (and remember milk is 85% water). The notion that an increased microherd in the soil will contribute positively to one's outcome is something I know we both agree on. But what does bacteria do, how it does it, and why, these questions I leave to the experts with pocket protectors and white lab coats. They are much smarter than I am on this topic and can calculate exactly how much NPK is produced by which bacteria group--and on which food.

Hence, the purpose of my earlier research of identifying the "perfect food" for the microherd--for the price, freshness, and variety of "components" (carbs, amino acids, protein, bacteria, etc) Raw Milk seemed to be the best choice for me...but let's not hijack this MO thread. MO feeds the microherd...a happy herd can produce natural NPK of around 14-1-3...resulting in a nutritious soil--and with good genetics + good farming skills, the results will usually be a bountiful harvest of great quality!

Cheers!

 

[Gelado`]

Molasses feed the herd; too much will impact bacterial growth and promote fungal growth, so you have to use some, but not too much for best results. The trace elements are less important; I supplement specifically for trace elements with a few different things (Azomite, sea minerals and soluble trace elements for agriculture, as well as supplemental CACO3 and MGSO4). Yes, some bacteria fix atmospheric nitrogen and convert it to usable forms, but they also need some of that N for their own purposes. The other nitrifying bacteria are using ammonia that is already present in the soil and making it available.

A healthy herd keeps the availability of nutrients up, but you have to provide the NPK so that they can assimilate and alter it for your plants' use. Using molasses without adding N WILL drop the amount of N in the soil since the N has to come from somewhere, and not all of the bacteria in the soil are fixing nitrogen from the atmosphere.

Basically, your herd makes your fertilizer break down and become usable, much like cows turn food into poop. In the process of pooping, they need to hold onto some of the nutrients for their own needs. Without food, they can't really do anything. Such is the circle of life...

I believe the 14-1-3 figure for soil is what the scientists find after assessing soil samples in the lab and hydrolyzing the bacteria; when the bacteria are broken down, you get around 14-1-3.

 

[EclipseFour20]

I understand you logic Gelado, sorry, I can not agree with your conclusion that adding MO will decrease N in the soil. If there are some studies that support the decrease in N...that would be great!

The studies I read, especially those concerning microbe inoculants indicate there are improvements in the nitrification process (increase in N) with combinations of specific bacteria and inoculants.

Not to worry...its cool!

 

[Gelado`]

Nitrificiation leads to a buildup of nitrites after conversion from ammonia; both are problematic in excessive amounts.

http://era.deedi.qld.gov.au/2072/2/15._Qld_Aqua_News_Issue_28,_page_6_&_7-sec.pdf

Check out this link; I can't copy and paste from it, but you'll see it basically says what I've been saying.

 

[Gelado`]

Bacteria by themselves only add nitrogen if they are the nitrogen fixing-kind...otherwise they only convert the nitrogen already in the medium from form to form. They don't add nitrogen at all; in fact they take away nitrogen for their own uses. A healthy aerobic herd will, however, increase the availability of soil nutrients, which is what we want. How do they do this? Enzymes!

 

[headband 707]

Nitrificiation leads to a buildup of nitrites after conversion from ammonia; both are problematic in excessive amounts.

http://era.deedi.qld.gov.au/2072/2/15._Qld_Aqua_News_Issue_28,_page_6_&_7-sec.pdf

Check out this link; I can't copy and paste from it, but you'll see it basically says what I've been saying.

A word to the wise here ,,,DO NOT used excessive amounts of anything lol stay frosty headband 707

 

[Gelado`]

^ about the best advice you can get for any aspect of life.

 

[BigSteve]

Some good info has been popping up in here.

Thanks.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Gelado---

Let me cut and paste from the attached study titled, INTERACTIONS OF BACTERIA, PROTOZOA AND PLANTS LEADING TO MINERALIZATION OF SOIL NITROGEN. Although it was published in 1985--the data and conclusions are pertinent today; besides it is easy reading for those of us versed in non-science disciplines...lol. It also includes a discussion regarding carbon interactions that you might find interesting.

The results indicate that, with energy supplied by plant roots or with external glucose additions, soil bacteria can mineralize N from the soil organic matter to support their own growth. Grazing of the bacteria is necessary to make bacterial biomass N available for plant uptake.

In the present experiment, all or part...of the N incorporated into the plant...originated from the soil organic matter. The mechanism of the release may be as follows: the carbon released from the roots serves as an energy source for the normally energy limited bacteria (Stotiky and Norman, 1963); temporarily released from their substrate shortage, the bacteria are able to mineralize N from the organic matter for their own growth; bacterial grazers, of which protozoa seem to be the most important, will consume the bacterial production; by excretion of surplus N as ammonium (Hardin, 1944; Fenchel and Harrison, 1976), the bacterial grazers make the N available for plant uptake.


Not too far from Elaine Ingham's Soilfoodweb concept. Yep, adding MO/glucose (at the right levels...at the right time) does make a difference! Now, regarding the topic of enzymes/vitamins--no doubt we both agree that is a different world all together (with many opposing camps...LOL)!

Cheers man! Great to learn new nuances of "old things".