beliefs and assumptions that are...

[GMT]

the awareness that is aware of experience is what I'm claiming to be primary, and a good analogy is the movie screen.

what appears on the screen changes, but the screen doesn't change.

the movie appearing on the screen is secondary, and would not appear without the screen.

is that more clear?

when what experiences is altered by the physical, it must itself be physical.

The movie screen in nonsense. I watch them on my laptop. Without the movie there would be no screen, what other purpose does it serve? Without the screen, we can watch any movie on anything. Your argument means nothing.

You said that we must not make assumptions. But the whole thread is based upon you assuming that you are something other than your brain. You aren't. You are your brain, that is all you are. When the brain stops working, your existence is over.

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

 

[southflorida]

when what experiences is altered by the physical, it must itself be physical.

The movie screen in nonsense. I watch them on my laptop. Without the movie there would be no screen, what other purpose does it serve? Without the screen, we can watch any movie on anything. Your argument means nothing.

You said that we must not make assumptions. But the whole thread is based upon you assuming that you are something other than your brain. You aren't. You are your brain, that is all you are. When the brain stops working, your existence is over.

okay, well, since you have it all figured out, why are you posting in this thread? and why waste your time commenting on delusional content, when you know exactly how this life works?

just interested in the intent behind your post

 

[southflorida]

the chicken is just a way for the egg to make another egg

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

the chicken is just a way for the egg to make another egg

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[GMT]

The same reason I and many others give our time to dispel the creationists, the ghost hunters, the aliens visit us threads. We care about truth, we hate those who seek to pervert other people's ability to perceive reality. To help someone to avoid spending years going down the wrong path, or to help to maintain the image that not all stoners are just whacked out kids who can't think straight because of that evil weed.

 

[southflorida]

The same reason I and many others give our time to dispel the creationists, the ghost hunters, the aliens visit us threads. We care about truth, we hate those who seek to pervert other people's ability to perceive reality. To help someone to avoid spending years going down the wrong path, or to help to maintain the image that not all stoners are just whacked out kids who can't think straight because of that evil weed.

so your motivation for writhing your own personal beliefs and assumptions is to spead the (truth?) and protect the folks whose perceptions could be perverted by this thread?

...i think it's time for you to put down the weed and turn yourself over to a mental hospital today...lol

 

[dank.frank]

Just like the screen...life is a movie that could not be experience with out the body - ie the ability to process sensory alterations in the world around us...

Now what we make of such experiences, is up to the individual - but it doesn't change the reality just because you think differently of it or because you choose to process it a different way.

Now, it may change how you feel about something or how you react to something...but it does NOT change the actual reality...

Like you said...if the screen does not change...then how does the consciousness simply because different images are flashing upon it????

Your screen example falls apart because the screen does not, can not chose to up and walk away leaving the movie to continue playing on what...well, not nothing...The movie still continues playing - it just isn't viewed as clearly via what ever distorted background it is now being projected upon.

The screen is not a necessity for the movie to be played. However - our bodies - which provide the fundamental medium through which we experience the world around us - ARE NECESSARY for us to continue having experiences...

To say otherwise...is pure conjecture. How much of your previous existences are you aware of? How many eons has your consciousness been reiterated? How many physical forms has your consciousness "possessed" or allowed itself to be realized / manifest through?

If you can not answer those questions - your awareness is no greater than ANY other person on this plant - you just look at life through given filter, which again, allows you to interpret information in a manner that makes you FEEL enlightened.

By your own assertions, you are still stuck in having a world which fits into your conceived notions...rather than accepting reality - to you fact is some whimsical notion of your own minds creation, in the moment...which may change later...so therefore it is not fact...but merely perceptive reflection.



dank.Frank

 

[southflorida]

Just like the screen...life is a movie that could not be experience with out the body - ie the ability to process sensory alterations in the world around us...

Now what we make of such experiences, is up to the individual - but it doesn't change the reality just because you think differently of it or because you choose to process it a different way.

Now, it may change how you feel about something or how you react to something...but it does NOT change the actual reality...

Like you said...if the screen does not change...then how does the consciousness simply because different images are flashing upon it????

Your screen example falls apart because the screen does not, can not chose to up and walk away leaving the movie to continue playing on what...well, not nothing...The movie still continues playing - it just isn't viewed as clearly via what ever distorted background it is now being projected upon.

The screen is not a necessity for the movie to be played. However - our bodies - which provide the fundamental medium through which we experience the world around us - ARE NECESSARY for us to continue having experiences...

To say otherwise...is pure conjecture. How much of your previous existences are you aware of? How many eons has your consciousness been reiterated? How many physical forms has your consciousness "possessed" or allowed itself to be realized / manifest through?

If you can not answer those questions - your awareness is no greater than ANY other person on this plant - you just look at life through given filter, which again, allows you to interpret information in a manner that makes you FEEL enlightened.

By your own assertions, you are still stuck in having a world which fits into your conceived notions...rather than accepting reality - to you fact is some whimsical notion of your own minds creation, in the moment...which may change later...so therefore it is not fact...but merely perceptive reflection.

first, I have never said that I'm enlightened or anything about enlightenment, I really don't know where you got the idea that I feel enlightened.

as far as the screen, it is an analogy.

so if we have a screen in a movie theater, what always changes is the movies being projected onto the screen. The screen itself doesn't change, it is always itself.

Our consciousness that is aware is like the screen.

The experience that is perceived and that consciousness is aware of changes, but the consciousness, and the ever-present awareness is always the same.

If you focus on the awareness that is aware of the experience that you're currently having - you will notice this "awareness" is always the same.

your thoughts, emotions, and perceptions might change, but the awareness that is aware of these thoughts, emotions, and perceptions will always be the same.

don't take my word for it

actually try it out in your own experience

 

[HUGE]

when what experiences is altered by the physical, it must itself be physical.

The movie screen in nonsense. I watch them on my laptop. Without the movie there would be no screen, what other purpose does it serve? Without the screen, we can watch any movie on anything. Your argument means nothing.

You said that we must not make assumptions. But the whole thread is based upon you assuming that you are something other than your brain. You aren't. You are your brain, that is all you are. When the brain stops working, your existence is over.

The reason you and florida can't come togeather is you are talking about 2 different things. You seem to define conciousness as the brain generated ego while florida seems to contest it is the universal force that fave rise to the brain encapsulated ego.yes the ego lives in the brain. Yes the ego dies with the brain. No a little version of gmt doest float away from your body and cary on . However the force whatever you want to call it that gave rise to gmt does remain. Think of it as energy can not be created nor destroyed.

 

[offthehook]

Stil, energy can either exist or disapear from existence. > Different meaning.^^

By going out of existence and returning back to it at some point... It never was beeing destroyed or created in the first place.
Anything materialised are just 'pulses'. Pulses sometimes exist and sometimes don't.

@ Dank frank, that's where I noticed you must have misunderstood me in your private attachement btw.

 

[dank.frank]

I keep telling you - there is no lack of depth in how I perceive the world. I am a very deep person and I tend to over analyze most everything...or think things out to the n'th degree.

I've told you many times I'm sure we'd have LONG talks over a campfire on these topics - I just don't think I will ever agree with your notion that our consciousness is separate from our bodies...

Via my own experiences, I would say the primary necessity of any consciousness, is a medium through which to interpret the data around us. Our consciousness without that ability to actually interact with the world around us - is really abject nothingness.

How good is a video game without a controller by which to play it?



dank.Frank

 

[dank.frank]

offthehook - I'm saying IF matter cannot be created or destroyed - only converted from one form to another...

Then our bodies - being matter - are subject to such. Our bodies, are EVER PRESENT. Just in different molecular states...

Our consciousness, on the other hand, is quite dependent on the vessel in which it resides, no?

If the vessel is changed - then how we are able to interact with the universe is also changed. And therefore, our interpretation of reality will also be changed, based on a varied ability to interact with it.

However, I do not think that REALITY is actually changed.

An example - if our consciousness was contained in a human body - when see a kitten we say, oh how cute. If our consciousness was contained in that of say a dog - then our perception of that kitten, is oh a meal. It however, DOES NOT CHANGE THE KITTEN AT ALL. The desire to have a pet vs to have a meal - does not change the reality of what the kitten is...it is still a kitten, REGARDLESS of the vessel our consciousness manifests itself through...

Not only that - our consciousness, ultimately is no more complex than one word - survival. That is the pursuit of EVERY creature. Our reality is really that simple. One great big massive attempt to survive - and all and every action in some form or another is an expression of that intrinsic, natural desire.



dank.Frank

 

[offthehook]

I think we tap from the same logic Dank Frank. And yes, survival and entertainment of the consciense is imho where it's all about.

Thing is, I have tried to see and live through the eyes from South Florida too once, but had to interrupt the experience seeing things his way.
Basicly, all I experienced in that shape felt realy true, and could be an alternative way of going through life as well.
Thing is that ppl involved with my direct surroundment started to notice differences in my behaviour all of a sudden that did not stroke with their perception of how one is supposed to behave. Therefore I had to call off my experiment in order not to become a burden to others.

I feel both ways are valid in their own right, though Dank Frank's is more compatible living in the 'real' world.

Nowadays I see mostly trough the eyes of Dank Frank, though I got living memories of times when I saw through South Florida's eyes too.

Apparently it's not all that black & white, true or untrue.

 

[HUGE]

Frank I don't dissagree with anything you said. But try and see the distinction between consciousness being ego, and conciousness being the energy from which the ego arose

I really tjink its a lack of a standard definition of "I" "me" "consciousness" that causes all the confusion in these discussions.

 

[offthehook]

you may be spot on Huge ... And there we got the chicken and the egg again as well

Looks like we got to settle this once and for all in order to proceed guys, flmao

 

[dank.frank]

Okay...let's ask THIS question...

HOW are we alive?

As in - all molecules that exist in the human body are present in life - and immediately after death, before decomposition begins...

So then, what is "life", in the sense that, "something" is present in us that causes the body to function.

What is that something? And does it have anything at all to do with who we perceive ourselves to be? Is that something a collective force - or is it something independent to each and every person?

IF all matter is still present on a molecular level - then what has left the body that has caused a ceasing of life?

I think this is what is being referenced as our consciousness, in these conversations.

I however think, our consciousness is ended when our bodies end...there is no continuation of being. We live. We die. That much is FACT. The rest is pure conjecture - and I fail to see what purpose is served by trying to place more meaning on it than that. We live. We die. The rock keeps on going in circles around the big yellow star.

Again with out any astute awareness of having experiences outside of our current reality, how is it that we are able to say, for fact - that these notions are in any way relevant to having ever been more or less than what we currently are??



dank.Frank

 

[GMT]

yeah lets settle it. ego is a mythical construct invented by an old pervert. It is not real.
the only life energy is electro chemical, and comes from eating and breathing. stop either one of those 2 and the energy ceases to be created. there is no reason to create some mythical life force beyond that. Why pretend that there are things beyond what there is evidence for? It's just childish, grow up!
Truth is black and white. You cannot choose to believe what you want. There is only one truth. learn it or be labelled as a nutter for your whole life. You will be ridiculed in every serious environment out there. And the worst part is, you never get to see what is going on for yourself.
I'm done, talk about your love of unicorns and fairies, go ahead, show yourselves up.

 

[HUGE]

Hammer on nail. End thred dank nailed it. Stay thirsty my friends.

Okay...let's ask THIS question...

HOW are we alive?

As in - all molecules that exist in the human body are present in life - and immediately after death, before decomposition begins...

So then, what is "life", in the sense that, "something" is present in us that causes the body to function.

What is that something? And does it have anything at all to do with who we perceive ourselves to be? Is that something a collective force - or is it something independent to each and every person?

IF all matter is still present on a molecular level - then what has left the body that has caused a ceasing of life?

I think this is what is being referenced as our consciousness, in these conversations.

I however think, our consciousness is ended when our bodies end...there is no continuation of being. We live. We die. That much is FACT. The rest is pure conjecture - and I fail to see what purpose is served by trying to place more meaning on it than that. We live. We die. The rock keeps on going in circles around the big yellow star.

Again with out any astute awareness of having experiences outside of our current reality, how is it that we are able to say, for fact - that these notions are in any way relevant to having ever been more or less than what we currently are??



dank.Frank

 

[ezak420]

sometimes its difficult to fathom the enigmatic nature of existence and the laws that govern the universe, time and consciousness.