Is this really Mg deficiency?

[newbbeginning]

@Hashman; I feed with Natures Own Guano Super Grow and Super Bloom. In veg i fed twice approx 1 month apart with a 1/2 dose of feed. Then 2-3days into 12/12 I fed a 1/2 dose of bloom feed to both plants (approx 1-1.25L per plant in a 13L pot, reccomends 5-10ml/L, i mixed 5ml/2.4L). Have also added epsom salts to both (1/4tsp : 1.5L in each pot) approx 1 week into 12/12.

@OB; how much dolomite lime and what feed strength should I give them with what amount of water? They have just had a good water today because of the runoff testing (approx 3.9L per pot) so it wont hurt/overwater them to do it again tomorrow with lime and bloom nutes?

@granger; I have done a basic root inspection, page one has a couple photos of both plants roots out of the pot. I have no magnifying glass nor am I able to afford/get one at this stage. (all went on pH pen) They looked healthy roots based on what ive read (white, hairy etc) but obviously could not identify any aphids.

Will read about nute lockout, but it would be great if we could suss out whether this is a pH related lockout and I need a full flush or if its a basic deficiency that I need to fix, I'm a little stressed out Im going to screw my harvest up over something simple.

Cheers again!!

 

[newbbeginning]

One more general question, was reading about pH and it said that if you water with a certain pH (say 6.5) and then there is a difference in your run off pH (say 7.2) then that difference is around half of what your soil/root pH is. Does that mean my pH is actually up around 7.9-8.0?
Also could not find instructions on decreasing soil/runoff pH.....other than dolomite lime at 1tbspn/gallon? I have a pH down product and a dripper, should I use this to decrease the pH of the water I'm watering with to reduce soil pH?

I feel like all my issues currently are due to the high pH im assuming I have in my soil?

 

[foomar]

but i would still add some lime and guano and just water it in and wait a few days.

With a run off now of over 7 i dont think you want to be adding any form of additional lime , a sat solution of dolomitic limestone has a pH of over 12.

Noticed the compositon of the compost is coir and perlite , these have a low nutrient holding capacity compared to peat and soil based.

If they were mine , i would flush through with pH 5 water till i get a runoff below 6 , then carry on with full strength flower nutes adjusted to 6.

Would suspect the compost at this point , but you should be able to salvage some of the yield despite the premature defoliation.


Those roots look fine from here , doubt its an insect problem as the roots would be browned and stinking of mouldy cabbages by now , but was definately worth a look , so many symptoms overlap its difficult , even with your good pictures to go on.


A decent quality glass lensed 10x loupe would be a usefull tool to aquire for spotting bugs and admireing trichs , and last a lifetime.

 

[kiwi_growa]

So I got my pH pen finally today. I tested my spring water multiple times through different buckets, some fresh today and others sitting in my room for a few days. Sturdy at a pH of 6.5. Then poured spring water through till runoff and it came out for both plants with 3 trials in each's runoff averaging 7.2pH.


Will post pics from yesterday re the progression of death.
Thanks again for the help

Obviously I need to drop the runoff pH? Yep
Do I flush the plants out with straight 6.5pH water or do I put flowering feed nutes in along with superthrive and flush out with that? Flush with straight 6.5ph water. No nutes.
Then also how much should I be watering? and given that my symptoms are progressing at an insane rate in both plants what should I fix? This may help answer your problem, similar issue except this guys PH was on the other end of the scale http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-51021.html
Will the flush fix my issues because of lockout or do I have another deficiency? It's hard to be sure, because it could be a number of things. But your PH is something that needs to change regardless of whether or not it is the root cause of your problems your plants are exhibiting.

 

[Hash Man]

Bro. If you have only fed half strength nutes 4 times for the life of the plant you have a major nute deficiency. Your runoff ph is telling you this as well. You should get a tds meter and it would most likely read your runoff as very low tds. This means your plant does not have Enough food to grow. Ph and ppm play off each other, generally...ie...

If your soil runoff is reading a low ph, I would bet your ppm is pretty high and would not recommend feeding. If your ph is really high, I would bet your ppm is too low and recommend feeding. This applies as long as you haven't been adding a bunch of rAndom stuff to your soil, and it sounds like your plants haven't got much of anything to eat.

Be gentle, but give them what they are asking for. Some fish and frass, or may e some guano , kelp, and humic.

Good luck. Others please chime in here. I don't see how this could be overdose or aphids if the plant has not ever gotten a full meal. Hash

 

[foomar]

If the compost is mainly coir and perlite with a handfull of worm castings , then it may need to be treated more like an inert media run to waste hydro than soil.

If this is the case then plenty of people are going to have similar issues in early flower.

Was there any info on the packageing as to its use and future feeding ?

 

[newbbeginning]

Cool, so today I'm going to flush each pot out with 25-30L of water which I will pH adjust to 6.0 (halfway between the reccomends ) then will wait a day or two and feed with a full strength dose of flowering nutes.

@Foomar; no the feeds have almost no information on them and there is no info on the websites who stock the product about ongoing feedings or ratios or anything. Nor on the growing medium im using, I cannot find an actual producers website for either of them.

 

[Hash Man]

You don't need to flush. Feeding a full strength dose should do the trick, just ph it like u were saying.

 

[foomar]

Not much about this online in six years since its introduction , the few users seem to add random stuff to it as a base.

Their nute line is imported here , but no supplier brings in the media due to shipping costs.

Folk in the Australia/New Zealand forum might be able to offer some knowledge as to its worth , looks like the main market.


This is the most detailed info i could find , and it aint much.

Max Yield growing medium has been developed using the finest available products with the grower and their plants in mind. Max Yield is a growing medium which combines simplicity of use, with the flexibility to choose suitable watering/feeding schedules.

Each component part of Max Yield has been carefully sourced from the best available products the world has to offer, each is then analytically tested in New Zealand to ensure superior performance.

Max Yield is the perfect blend of the highest quality products found locally and around the world.First we take the finest available neem impregnated coconut fibre/Coir sourced from the Indian sub continent, (Double washed to ensure optimal pH and CF values), we then add high grade Australian super coarse Perlite, these quality components are expertly combined with the best locally produced worm castings (which add a valuable source of organic proteins) to produce a unique growing medium.

The Max Yield mix ratio offers the perfect balance of water holding capacity and plant root zone aeration to stimulate maximum nutrient uptake and plant growth

No other medium combines all of the components that give Max Yield the advantage, making Max Yield a unique, user friendly, plant friendly, environmentally friendly product.

No pests, no problems, big healthy plants you cant beat Max Yield.



This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 10 April, 2007.

I could take

with the flexibility to choose suitable watering/feeding schedules

to mean there are no nutes in the mix and i need to feed from day one.

Which , if true , could explain the symptoms , which mirror an underfed coir or perlite grow to some extent , and easily fixed.

 

[newbbeginning]

Mint!! Thanks for all the help guys/girls.

(Un?) Fortunately I have already flushed them out with the water, the run off was a yellow colour initially.
Anyways as a plan of attack I will feed them in a day or two with a fullstrength feed. Should I continue at full strength once per week or come down to a half strength once per week for the next few waterings?

 

[medicalmj]

Mint!! Thanks for all the help guys/girls.

(Un?) Fortunately I have already flushed them out with the water, the run off was a yellow colour initially.
Anyways as a plan of attack I will feed them in a day or two with a fullstrength feed. Should I continue at full strength once per week or come down to a half strength once per week for the next few waterings?

The problem with basing nute strength off what the bottle says is full strength is that you don't know the actual strength is without an EC/ppm tester.

MY 2 cents is to use a complete hydroponic fertilizer until issue is resolved. This way you will give the plant all macro and micro nutes it needs in the correct ratio. Not sure what they offer your way but something like GH floranova (they make a grow and a bloom)is a simple one part with everything your plants need. Got a buddy that likes the KISS approach and uses nothing but that and his stuff is as good as anyones. No defs, no issues and super simple. A quart will run you $25USD.

 

[newbbeginning]

Hey medmj, i dont have a EC/ppm tester, however I use an organic based nute called Natures Own Guano Super grow, the best info I can find is this: " Nature's Own Guano contains all trace elements needed to promote healthy plant growth, i.e. Manganese, Magnesium, Iron, Molybdenum, Cobalt, Sodium, Zinc and Calcium.
Nature's Own Guano is 100% natural organic product and contains no heavy metals or man-made contaminants."
There was also another thread here (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=142962) where the mix strengths were given as
Liquid Concentrate:
5 ml/1 liter - 300 PPM
10 ml/ 1 liter - 600 PPM

Where would these ppm's leave me for my nute needs given the issues? I think I will mix at 5ml/L and feed this to them adjusting it to a 6-6.5pH after adding nutes.

 

[newbbeginning]

Sorry, Super Grow is veg nute, Super Bloom is flower nute

 

[eastbayray]

I have some experience with max yield. I find there's enough food in the mix for about 4-6 weeks. Strain dependent. It'll burn young nute sensitive sativas. It's pH balanced. If anything it's a little low. My tap water is pH neutral and and my runoff can get as low as 5.5. I've heard some folks add a little lime prior to potting up but I don't usually bother. I add about 15-20% pumice to get a bit more oxygen to the root zone.

Nature's Own guano bloom is 1-10-1 npk (iirc) so you'll also need a potassium supplement if that's all you're feeding. Something along the lines of earthjuice meta-k would do the trick.

 

[Dkgrower]

In general i think that you was to light on the fertilizer

They are large plants in a medium size pot in littel grow space give em a proper feed - maby u need to give less water and more often.

Plants that size will explode if you up the water interval and give less- unless u have a fucked up medium..

Notice that u roots are all in the bottom - i have feeder roots that stick out in the top of the soil surface and with that plant size u should have more white roots every where to feed such a large plant. Maby repot into something bigger and add some perlith or similar products

I am not familiar with ya nutrients but maby they are not the most balanced - to littel Nitrogen....check it out.

Another important issue check ya enviroment - temps and humidity - it could also be a factor that adds to the problem.

Also i notice that u have not trimmed ya plant that much - use some time to cut off excess brances and lower growth.

Most negative grow-bloom related issues are not due to 1 single factor..

 

[medicalmj]

Hey medmj, i dont have a EC/ppm tester, however I use an organic based nute called Natures Own Guano Super grow, the best info I can find is this: " Nature's Own Guano contains all trace elements needed to promote healthy plant growth, i.e. Manganese, Magnesium, Iron, Molybdenum, Cobalt, Sodium, Zinc and Calcium.
Nature's Own Guano is 100% natural organic product and contains no heavy metals or man-made contaminants."
There was also another thread here (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=142962) where the mix strengths were given as
Liquid Concentrate:
5 ml/1 liter - 300 PPM
10 ml/ 1 liter - 600 PPM

Where would these ppm's leave me for my nute needs given the issues? I think I will mix at 5ml/L and feed this to them adjusting it to a 6-6.5pH after adding nutes.

I think others alluded to and I agree 300 PPM is really low and 600 PPM is low but should provide enough. If I'm converting correctly I rock about 900 PPM, which is still on the low side of what GH (Nutes I use) suggests.

 

[Dkgrower]

I think others alluded to and I agree 300 PPM is really low and 600 PPM is low but should provide enough. If I'm converting correctly I rock about 900 PPM, which is still on the low side of what GH (Nutes I use) suggests.

I go with E.C 1.5-1.8 (Hanna milwaukee) equal to 900PPM and i got 1 stain that are sensitive to that level (minor nute burn) but the rest are loving it..

Medicalmj the conversion depends on what EC meter u have

http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/ec-to-ppm-conversion-chart.html

 

[newbbeginning]

Hey Guys,
So was gunna post again to say my problems slowed but have not stopped, so obviously the feed was too weak.
My soil has still not dried out from the flush/feeding. I wouldnt be able to overwater too much at this stage right? Should I do another strong feed ASAP?
@DKgrower; i think this watering strategy is a key one, hadnt noticed but when you pointed out I realised that when I was watering only a little every couple of days I got my best results. So will go back to that as soon my medium drys out a tad. I also have not trimmed at all, couldnt really make sense of the youtube and forum instructions i could find.

I have started taking all the fully dead leaves off now. If i pull the lower level branches with tiny bud off can they be used as clones? I believe I read that the lower ones (and any which dont have decent bud) should be removed so the plant can focus on the bigger buds?

@eastbay, cheers!! its been impossible to find the ratios in these feeds. I will look for earthjuice meta-k. Any guidance on how I should feed/mix that into my natures own when I feed?

Thanks for all the advice again

 

[Dkgrower]

watering only a little every couple of days I got my best results. So will go back to that as soon my medium drys out a tad.

There is some thing wrong - check ya humidity. Plants that size can be water 2 times pr day if the medium allow it and they will explode.

I would recommend to water every day (when the pot is "dryed" out) i am a firm beliver that the soil should newer dry out - keep it moist but not full of water.

If the plants are not drinking water - there is some thing wrong - what is the amount u give pr plant and what is the interval, cirkus.

I also have not trimmed at all, couldnt really make sense of the youtube and forum instructions i could find..

I have started taking all the fully dead leaves off now. If i pull the lower level branches with tiny bud off can they be used as clones? I believe I read that the lower ones (and any which dont have decent bud) should be removed so the plant can focus on the bigger buds?

Trimming it is a very important aspect in growing nice plants.

First look at the 2 plants u are growing they seam to favor chrismas tree style tops, if u had topped the plants u could have focus on 4 to 6 main colas.

In your picture of the 2 plants - notice that there are crown of buds with a main cola in the middel - those are the branches that u should keep, cut off the rest of the lowers branches.

Untrimmed plants dont preform that well and cannabis responds very well to trimming so dont be scared.

And yes u can use the lower branches to make cutting.

 

[newbbeginning]

Thanks for the DK, not sure of the humidity? my local humidty is around 45% currently though so I would assume my indoor humidity is pretty close to this, prehaps a little higher. I have been blowing an oscillating fan around the canopy/at the light for a few hours each day with the window open.

Up until the flush I was watering about every third day with 1.5L per pot, it kept the soil moist to my understanding. But never wet for very long, watering was based on as the top soil looked about 50% dry. I never had runoff when I was watering either.

Im going to trim my lower branches and take the big dea fan leaves off then give it a 10mL/L feeding of flowering nutes in 1.5L for each but will feed them maybe 200ml at a time over a day or two so that I dont keep the soil too wet. Will the plant be able to use the nutes like this?