Everybody a breeder ?

[Weird]

Is human breeding an art?

idk but beer is considered a mix of art and science

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=is+beer+brewing+an+art%3F&oq=is+beer+brewing+an+art%3F&gs_l=hp.3...23248.24488.2.24632.5.5.0.0.0.0.64.291.5.5.0.ernk_rr..0.0...1.1.8.psy-ab.wyVQUbhfAFk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44770516,d.dmg&fp=849a5b668cddd045&biw=1280&bih=697

here is a blurb on ornamental flowers from a horticultural course


Field of Study: Ornamental Horticulture


Introduction Programs in ornamental horticulture teach people how to breed and grow decorative plants. Students learn methods of using plants in artistic and pleasing ways. They study the growth and development of specific types of decorative plants. They also learn the basic principles of plant science.


http://www.iseek.org/education/fieldOfStudy?id=110804

 

[Weird]

another example would be the science of what tastes good

how does science determine what tomato tastes best

or does aroma and flavor not matter in weed breeding at all?










the answer to how they measure taste in tomatoes is they quantify opinion based on taste tests thats the science,.a matter of personal opinion

 

[Weird]

see for me and this is me your opinion might vary but for me some dude with the same tastes in flavor,aroma and type of hype (art) growing pedigree genes (genetics) in the same environment (environment or norm of reaction for geneticists) is more important than me than the pool of numbers (science) the person uses in their selection

art of selection + genetics + environment + selection methods are parts of breeding method

their importance is relative to the breeding project and the desire of the consumer

it is how i describe the reality of my decision making process you dont have to agree but if you do i would love to hear reasoning behind it


beat-dead

 

[Weird]

science and scientists doesn't count out the influence of art in real life equations why do it here

 

[Paco]

Weird just stfu already. This shit is old and played out. And like you did with spelling just quit, give up. Not sure how many people can take you seriously if you can't write.

 

[Weird]

Weird just stfu already. This shit is old and played out. And like you did with spelling just quit, give up. Not sure how many people can take you seriously if you can't write.

attacking my person

score one for paco !

 

[Weird]

i admit im severely dyslexic and i cant write in conventional manners or i get lost in the thought im trying to convey as the words blend

none of you have the power to hurt me with your personal attacks

but your personal attacks on me do highlight your integrity as individuals and as cowards because you use the internet to do so

put that on your pack of beans and market it

 

[astartes]

Weird, I understand you're passionate about your viewpoint, but it is becoming a bit tedious. Look over the last few pages of this thread. Half of the posts are yours and basically variations of the same theme.

a.

 

[stickshift]

i admit im severely dyslexic and i cant write in conventional manners or i get lost in the thought im trying to convey as the words blend

none of you have the power to hurt me with your personal attacks

but your personal attacks on me do highlight your integrity as individuals and as cowards because you use the internet to do so

put that on your pack of beans and market it

I too am severely dyslexic (Phono and surface.. all dependent on theories), I write my shit down and re read it a few times, I also often have to go back hours or days later to edit as i then tend to notice that I haven't made much sense!! that said I will not use it as an excuse.. though do get a few odd looks when I say a sentence and some words come out it the wrong order yet have made perfect sense in my head..

I will try to convey how I feel about this art stuff...

What I feel you fail to grasp is that the science is the art of selection. Things have changed you so that you no longer just rely on your eye. Go tell a rice breeder to just use art and forgo using the markers. Whilst phenotypic selection has been a useful tool in eras while we could not utilise other methods, well now some can use markers etc.. they will select parents via genotypes, that is not something I can do with my eye alone in the tents!!! but i'll be sure thankful for it when I pack those tents out with better genotypes as a result. Elite genotypes have and will always rule the day. So what do you suggest? that we do not use the tools we are now able to?

 

[purple_man]

high fambz!

weird dude really, ... have also lost the sense of comprehending what you read and repost here??? all this "art" talk... for example look at your description for the "ornamental horticulture course" which stated to teach their students about using artistic approaches etc... you know what ORNAMENTALS are right? ok, now you ever heard about FLORISTIC as a subbranch of plantproduction... HENCE those guys speak about art, in a sense where you will be using different ornamental plants, on behalf of their leaf/flower/... colours, shapes, forms etc. -> for someone to create a nice visually appealing bouqet of flowers (cut ones mostly), one combines all the different shapes/forms/colours hence it said in an artistic way. and the preface that they teach you how to cultivate and breed ornamentals ain't any semantic connection to the latter part of combining those in an artistic way...

so basicly, stop tooling around and get a life... stop reiterating the same nonsense all the time hence, no matter how often you repost the same bullshit just paraphrased in the search of lesser knowladgable guys to like you... your posts read more and more like a bad case of attention whoring syndrom ...

blessss
ps.: this ain't meant as a diss, it's just an "artistic" opinion

 

[Weird]

yeah bro because when i ask any of those California cats spitting science saying science makes all the difference and i ask how much they go off about the value of science but never give a value THEN attack my person

i might have neurological disorders but im not fucking dumb

there isn't one part of the equation they want to address because it might (in their eyes) take away their exclusivity its painfully obvious at this point

tom bombadil said it in a nutshell but the quality of trait selection cant be ignored i never suggested it and said that like a broken record

if THEY are the professionals what excuse is there to for them to act anything like professionals

ive never been in any of their forums or any other breeder discussion this was my first thread its not like im trolling them .... or avoiding any logical answer or accusation even if it is about my physical being

im not tying to make it a game

 

[Paco]

I'm attacking the fact you are very prolix, while saying nothing at all. Dyslexic has nothing to do with simple misspellings. If you are using a computer you have spell check. So if there is going to be an attack on you, its, use fucking spell check...

 

[GreenintheThumb]

We all would have starved by now using your breeding methods with food production. We couldn't feed the world without the science of selection methods. You have nothing to offer this thread, we have heard your point made about 1,000 times. Few agree with it but it was heard. Do you have anything else to say? If not why don't you get back to watching the Office or playing Starcraft or whatever it is that brings you joy.

 

[Weird]

I'm attacking the fact you are very prolix, while saying nothing at all. Dyslexic has nothing to do with simple misspellings. If you are using a computer you have spell check. So if there is going to be an attack on you, its, use fucking spell check...

in science it is not the format of the theory that counts but the logic presented within.

but seriously bro if you cant get past the format/spelling perhaps you should excersize the right to read it

im discussing logic on a pot board there is no grade on the presentation

you put that there for whatever reason you decide to

 

[bombadil.360]

What I feel you fail to grasp is that the science is the art of selection. Things have changed you so that you no longer just rely on your eye. Go tell a rice breeder to just use art and forgo using the markers. Whilst phenotypic selection has been a useful tool in eras while we could not utilise other methods, well now some can use markers etc.. they will select parents via genotypes, that is not something I can do with my eye alone in the tents!!! but i'll be sure thankful for it when I pack those tents out with better genotypes as a result. Elite genotypes have and will always rule the day. So what do you suggest that we do not use the tools we are now able to?

well, but regardless of having high-tech equipment that helps us explore the genome, at the end of the day, it's all about relying on the good old eye, and nose, to confirm with the senses afterall.

not only that, but even with high-tech tools, the whole process is the same old trial and error, as in the classic selective breeding before high tech.

not until there is some kind of definite genome dictionary, for lack of a better term, that dictates infallible results when it comes to selection, it's all trial and error.

I could pop 20 bag seeds, find a female I like and a male I like, cross them, and get some consistent offspring, with overall desirable traits all around. if I keep that same male and same female, old school style, I can pop-out quality seeds left and right, without the use of high tech.

does that mean that since said plants were found without high tech that they are suddenly not good at all?

 

[offthehook]

Q:Why don't I also jump on the band wagon and start dishing Weird and the things he has to say? (or Tom for that matter)
A:As an impartial 3e party I contrieve value from all of you guys.

I try thinking beyond all of your 'visions'.

Most of you have merit, but when 'name calling' begins you all lose it for that peticular moment.
To me we're all 'breeders', some more succesfull than others by each their own standards, and the whole of this planet our collective laboratory.

 

[canned abyss1]

We all would have starved by now using your breeding methods with food production. We couldn't feed the world without the science of selection methods.

He's right all of those farmers that have been breeding and feeding the world for thousands of years, they couldn't have done it without out science or reading the book. Scientists don't always agree with each other and try to out prove each other all the time, so just because the word science is used doesn't make your argument any more valid than anyone else's. Weird may be a little long winded but at least he is being tactful which is more than I can say for a bunch of the people that call themselves professionals. What does it matter what route someone takes to get to their destination, as long as they get there, its like saying your stupid for driving there when you can just fly. Science has proven that flying is faster and more direct but that doesn't mean that people that drive won't get to their destination. Nobody is saying that science isn't beneficial and won't improve your odds, they are saying that it is not the only way to reach ones goal.

 

[stickshift]

well, but regardless of having high-tech equipment that helps us explore the genome, at the end of the day, it's all about relying on the good old eye, and nose, to confirm with the senses afterall.

not only that, but even with high-tech tools, the whole process is the same old trial and error, as in the classic selective breeding before high tech.

not until there is some kind of definite genome dictionary, for lack of a better term, that dictates infallible results when it comes to selection, it's all trial and error.

I could pop 20 bag seeds, find a female I like and a male I like, cross them, and get some consistent offspring, with overall desirable traits all around. if I keep that same male and same female, old school style, I can pop-out quality seeds left and right, without the use of high tech.

does that mean that since said plants were found without high tech that they are suddenly not good at all?

Yeah because it's working well there's elites all over the show isn't there? btw how did you evaluate that male? but by all means go for it.. not sure quite how that would work though.. presume from the 20 bags you're just inbreeding so why you'd just use 1:1 there I don't know... I mean I could take a shit and hope that gold drops out, it's unlikely but there ya go! I'd just sooner pay for some gold that I know is gold than go searching and hoping..

does that mean that since said plants were found without high tech that they are suddenly not good at all?

not at all, like mofeta put it's not where you find the gold... that said being able to replicate that gold is something many of you fail to be grasping imo....

 

[zachrockbadenof]

with all the shit flyin, u would think that 'shit-throwers' (read breeders) would have come up with some ass-kickin weed by now...

 

[GMT]

Wonder if poppey growers get all this shit about how they're breeding the heroin flowers.