Everybody a breeder ?

[GreenintheThumb]

sorry you are have deluded yourself into believing science applied in your back yard will make you GW pharma

I guess it kind of depends on what my "backyard" is, doesn't it?

now I showed what I can do without science why not show me what you can do with it and how much better it is because of it

at least Tom can talk shit because he can throw fucking down

Yeah, I don't throw down anything in my two facilities under 300+ lamps and 30,000 sq ft. Why don't you show a picture of your whole tent and let me know how to really throw down.

have you even tried dusting a pistil? or is all of your argument based on what you read on the web?

No, I spend hundreds of dollars on breeding texts just so I can argue with ignorant slime like you.

there is a reason you buy fucking seed son cause i know I dont

I don't buy seed either. Most of my seed is gifted to me, usually by the type of people who are teaching you a thing or two in this very thread.

 

[Tom Hill]

Weird, what is your point, beyond the given of 50 pages back? Of course environment has effect on phenotype. Does art help you get through environmental variations to some advantage over proven scientific methods? What's your point you broken record?

 

[indoor/outdoor]

I would like to put my 2 cents in and say that all the strains of medicine that were and will be created,I have not found a bad plant yet and that all cannabis is good

 

[Weird]

I guess it kind of depends on what my "backyard" is, doesn't it?

that went over my head

View Image View Image

nice job, those tissue cultures? you bred that strain and propagate it by tissue culture? if so im impressed

Yeah, I don't throw down anything in my two facilities under 300+ lamps and 30,000 sq ft. Why don't you show a picture of your whole tent and let me know how to really throw down.

sorry bro here on the wrong coast we dont have the same luxuries

sorry to say the biggest show ive had is 12 lights at 2 locos

if that makes my grow dick tiny ohh well i can always go somewhere the girls are smaller

No, I spend hundreds of dollars on breeding texts just so I can argue with ignorant slime like you.

shame they aren't giving you that coup de grace on showing me environment has no bearing on norm or reaction

should kept the money if thats how well its serving you

and if you think im slime lol bro your fucking easy

I don't buy seed either. Most of my seed is gifted to me, usually by the type of people who are teaching you a thing or two in this very thread.

ohh im sure ill be taught

ironic this is this learning disabled fuck never read anything about genetics till the last few days to try to put some "science" to my anecdotal evidences and within a short time im grasping it well enough to put together a clear and concise argument for which no one who has being using science can counter with any scientific response

and to quote

No, I spend hundreds of dollars on breeding texts just so I can argue with ignorant slime like you.

whose the dumb one?

and for the record i never argued against the use of science just how its being used to justify the size of a breeders dick

 

[Weird]

Weird, what is your point, beyond the given of 50 pages back? Of course environment has effect on phenotype. Does art help you get through environmental variations to some advantage over proven scientific methods? What's your point you broken record?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5699454&postcount=1027

 

[Weird]

im going to smoke some hack weed and enjoy a nights sleep

congratulations on the baby

I wish the best for you naccy and the baby to be the best of luck

 

[Tom Hill]

within a short time im grasping it well enough to put together a clear and concise argument for which no one who has being using science can counter with any scientific response

oh, yeah, "you" put that together, lol, nobody is countering it because it's a fucking GIVEN, like I said the first 50 times you said it lol.

 

[indoor/outdoor]

some times you gotta RE-EVALUATE AND DO SOME SOUL SEARCHING, ASK YOURSELF WHAT DO I WANT TO ACCOMPLISH FROM THIS ENDEVOUR?

 

[CHillTowneGenes]

weird, you know... if you can counter it cool, but do you not see what he's saying at all, or are you just being a douche for the sake of being a douche? all he's saying is 'this short cut I was guided to panned out for me, whether you want to use it or not. who cares, but you'd be a fool to not try it once!' honestly from your fervor and passion on this thread, I get the impression you feel the same way about your ideas, but I could be wrong...

 

[Tom Hill]

It kinda sucks when guys like GitT and I try to tell guys like Weird how it is regarding continuously varying traits and target environments etc only to be told he couldn't disagree more to which we reply go pick up a book, then he comes running back and posting things from books detailing exactly what we've been telling him all along and then somehow he's putting together a clear and concise arguments which no one who has being using science can counter etc, and WE are swinging our dicks around? Jeeze no matter what we are trying to accomplish here its sure giving me a headache, I'm off to bed too. And thanks for the well wishes Weird, sincerely. -Tom

 

[bombadil.360]

Weird, what is your point, beyond the given of 50 pages back? Of course environment has effect on phenotype. Does art help you get through environmental variations to some advantage over proven scientific methods? What's your point you broken record?

the point Weird and Pip are making, although not worded clear enough, is that since we do not know scientifically speaking the function of the whole cannabis genomes, that making selections with highly sophisticated methods, will yield results that are comparable to more amateurish methods of selections.

highly sophisticated methods are good and all, but without knowing what exactly each variable within the genome does, it's still all pretty much a game of trial and error, to put it simply.

this does not translate to thinking that highly sophisticated methods are useless, not at all, they're pretty cool imo, however, dismissing less sophisticated methods because of some sort of 'mystical' belief in high-tech, is quite an error.

maybe when we know 100% what each variable within the genome does, and how we can safely select through such knowledge, then sure, high-tech will have a great advantage to old-school techniques, but until then, the playing field is leveled.

peace.

 

[mexcurandero420]

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=39432&pictureid=1010661&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=31338&pictureid=716251&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

No, I spend hundreds of dollars on breeding texts just so I can argue with ignorant slime like you.

You could spend a couple of hunderds of dollars for the right light & a few bucks for the right fertilizer.

If you think that tissue culture is the future for modern breeding, well keep on dreaming

Keep on growing

 

[peterpan]

Ahh since im just a old man and dont understand anything in this thread, was just wondering when I'm going to see some great seeds from all this. PP

 

[Weird]

the point Weird and Pip are making, although not worded clear enough, is that since we do not know scientifically speaking the function of the whole cannabis genomes, that making selections with highly sophisticated methods, will yield results that are comparable to more amateurish methods of selections.

highly sophisticated methods are good and all, but without knowing what exactly each variable within the genome does, it's still all pretty much a game of trial and error, to put it simply.

this does not translate to thinking that highly sophisticated methods are useless, not at all, they're pretty cool imo, however, dismissing less sophisticated methods because of some sort of 'mystical' belief in high-tech, is quite an error.

maybe when we know 100% what each variable within the genome does, and how we can safely select through such knowledge, then sure, high-tech will have a great advantage to old-school techniques, but until then, the playing field is leveled.

peace.

thank you very much for your statement.

this is one facet of what i am saying but not that the old school and scientific techniqes offer comparable results in an apples to apples situation but in relative ones

I think scientific technique offers a bit more benefit than that comparable results regardless

but another part of what im saying is this, that if you control the environment it changes the ratio of "best of" phenotypes expressed which scales the size of the selection pool necessary to find the right candidates for a breeding project

in an environment that encourages the phenotype that you desire you will encounter that phenotype in greater frequency and conversely in a environment that doesn't encourage phenotype expression they will not

an ez experiment would be to self the chem d clone and sow the seeds and clone each plant you sow

run one population in the known best environment and then run the identical population in an environment known to suppress some of the traits of chem d like ph (environmental cue) and see how long it takes you to find progeny like the parent

the same method used in determining the genotype through phenotypes can be used to prove this point

so the 1000 plant 5% ratio a breeder uses outside to breed a pure sativa may not be the same one necessary to achieve similar results if other scientific techniques are used to guarantee expression of phenotype

this is how GW pharma does it (although they also read genetic markers to help them choose if they are hitting their target phenotype)

ty so very much for helping make it digestible

I think if we are going to discuss how to rate a breeders value we need to know how to evaluate their breeding practices against data that is accurate in all scenarios not just one

 

[Weird]

here is how I see the things that factor into the equation in regards to breeder value from a consumer perspective


value of breeding project in regards to what im looking for

+

value of breeding methodology in regards to ensuring the promised results

+

genetic pedigree involved

+

breeder reputation

then there are some other facets that are as equally important and but no one has mention their role in marketing but maybe we should since it is the real underlying reason for the resentment

breeder integrity

and I don't mean integrity to make a promise and deliver but the integrity regards to securing genetics and respecting where they came from

It finally dawned on me last night what was going on

there was one huge common denominator among those contesting my logic and there was a reason, a causation to the support of it

the common denominator is bigger than Tom and hindsight being 20/20 i get all the resentment and concern

the bottom line is the common denominator is my antagonists are California growers/'breeders and their resentment against "east coast closet hacks" and "dutch hacks" is well founded

a large and very important part of the gene pools we all take part in were originally brought to the world by California heads (an interestingly enough a huge overlap between them and greatful dead fans)

and it didnt come cheap or easy, not at all

and much of the genetics that were shared were shared with the intention that they were going to help get people medicines they needed not someone elses life work to exploit

so one of the biggest variables you might want to consider when buying seed is the pedigree represented by the person who original founded it? or people they shared it with along with their blessings ?

because it matters, getting Tom's pedigree seed is more powerful if you have the person who created it helping you bridging the learning curve so someone wanting to buy his genes should really make sure they are coming from him or someone he delegated that pedigree too or the buyer will be paying for someone else/s learning curve if nothing else

and it also brings up the point if s breeder is willing to steal a persons work isn't that a tell to their integrity

none of this is contestable all of this matters

and i care deeply care about many people I know who live in California dedicated themselves to the cause back when it wasn't so fashionable who are suffering because legalization has changed the market dynamics and the threat is only growing (people bridging the experience gap with big money and/or no integrity)

i can see how all that had work can basically equate to nothing in a few years time and i myself never considered any of this because I know what California has done for the world and for me and all those Californian strains any breeding projects were personal

I did do something with those chem d seeds and the guava crosses and the other "eiltes" i got from other people though (dont worry i didnt give out anyone's "else genes" selfed they were all crossed)

I gifted them all to people i met on furthur tour, people whose lives i thought may benefit form the same thing I benefited from

one "gathering" i gave some kids beans, later someone stole them and then the kids started balling, flat out balling

that is how much that sentiment meant to them, not saying they were even any good im not thumping my chest im just saying that maybe you should stop attacking my logic because im not against the actualization of any value perceived or otherwise i just want to create methodology by which people can make seed purchase choices and get the best results because of it

those that can be scientifically and more importantly those that cannot

and other than voice my opinion in this thread no one can claim i ever did harm to this community in any way shape or form either as ureapwhatusow, rndzl or weird my current incarnation so please i you want to make it stirckly about personal attacks lets ditch the genetics talk and take it off the boards

i spent years encouraging people to find the best of themselves I don't need to be treated like shit because I posses an opinion that people dont agree with

I know why everyone is so uptight and it wasn't me who created the all of this insanity it was prohabition so please kids

dont hate the player hate the game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFjMtKBF-RI

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

it all comes down to combining ability amoungst the parents, if they dont combine well, dosent matter if you use art or science, your cross will suck.

 

[stickshift]

Stickshift (it took me a while to know who you were lol) is every bit as versed on these subjects as I am, he is a friend to cannabis, and you'll never see him riding dick that's for sure, he's got huge nuts. He is right (re the worthlessness of a "growoff"), and you are wrong Larry, it's as simple as that. Likewise, anybody who thought that was an idea to gain insight to the topic, including weird, doesn't understand the subject at all.

Thanks for the kind words, though I must be slipping for you to not know from the off! there's very few who I actually take the time to read on the boards, you sir are one of them! (although I might of stated otherwise previously )

 

[Weird]

marketing based on geographic location was a game changer for the California raisins

 

[Weird]

and on a side note

the "art" of selection will still matter hers why

you can use genetics to map cannibinoid profiles can you do the same to flavanoid and the genes that contribute to taste, i dont think they have been mapped yet

in this case it would be JUST like beer, the process is dictated by scientific results but the quantification of those results requires the beer to be tasted as well as measured for alcohol

thats where the value of craft brewing lie

same thing with people who grow prize ornamental flowers, the art of selection matters

 

[Tonygreen]

Is human breeding an art?