Aliens, yay or nay?

[Anti]

So perhaps crop circles are communication from our people to them. These types of people who make them are into sacred geometry?

I've made a lot of art and spent a period in my youth obsessed with the "occult". I can draw many sacred geometry patterns from memory, right now.

Does that mean I'm people like you?

So they are people like me and not debunkers?

I see...

There are many levels to understanding reality. Symbols can be meaningful on more than one level of significance. And they can also be beautiful on their own.

I'm only pointing out flaws in reasoning. I have no agenda other than the truth.

Strange that not a SINGLE person said ANYTHING when I discussed my own "UFO" experience.

 

[Galactic]

Re: Aliens, yay or nay?

What wrong with respecting someone's subjective experience?

 

[igrowone]

since i don't it mentioned in the thread from the search function, the best documented UFO sighting has to be the Apollo 11 one
radar contact i believe, very well peer reviewed since you had the mainstream scientific community trying to explain it away
the ones that knew that is, they kept it secret at the time, it was shown on the moon mission movie they made a year or 2 ago

 

[mrcreosote]

The Belgians scrambled for a sighting and got one on radar. I saw it on a UFO doc that had the famous English airbase recording of guys watching one on the ground.

Apparently the Belgians aren't too worried about people knowing there's some weird shit flying around.
Then again they don't have nukes either.

 

[BushyOldGrower]

They haven't conditioned our response adequately yet. We may be seeing the non interference aspect of our space brothers. They may have wished to let our military know we couldn't touch them and they may want us to find out gradually.

I can see your points about why not just make outright contact and I wish they would.

Of course I just meant dreamers and such when I said people like me. Working in medicine and a psych ward taught me about what we consider rational thinking. Many delusions like magical thinking exist and it is really nothing real at all.

As I have said god doesn't pull rabbits from hats is just my sort of reasoning. I mean why would god if there was a god need to change the game to intervene in anything. Dreaming on is preferable to not dreaming and it only gets crazy when you spend too much time on it.

So my dream is that they are out there and that they are far more enlightened and kind than we are. It is also that they will make contact sometime soon. If not I will still dream on. OK? My experiences aren't really proof even to me but I believe.

 

[BugJar]

Then why do we have chimpanzee DNA?

we also share half our of dna with bananas... no joke

http://ec.europa.eu/euraxess/links/china/docs/leaflet_dnabananas.pdf

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Perhaps anti doesn't see the flaws in his own reasoning...

I can see mine and of course this is a very loose discussion of many subjects where we are just throwing a few thoughts around.

 

[HempKat]

Could you please provide the source for all the things you have quoted in your post so that I can look into it further?

Thanks!


(DISCLAIMER FOR IDIOTS: A request for more information about something presented in the thread is not belittling someone, beating them up, or demanding anything.)


[EDIT] Nevermind. I found it myself with google.

Your source appears to be from this link: http://www.cropcirclesecrets.org/education.html

In your opinion, we should expect the research being done by "crop circle secrets" to be 100% unbiased?

Here's a quote from the same page:



[SIZE=-1]See how they set this up? A hoax is a forgery... there[SIZE=-1]fore there must be a "g[SIZE=-1]enuine" to copy from. [SIZE=-1]So [SIZE=-1]since someone decided to [SIZE=-1]make [SIZE=-1]some crop c[SIZE=-1]ircles and people decided it was aliens... those crop c[SIZE=-1]irc[SIZE=-1]les are FORGERI[SIZE=-1]ES of real crop circles?

[SIZE=-1]Doesn't t[SIZE=-1]hat seem kinda.... dumb.... to you?

[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Using the same logic, [SIZE=-1]I could say that Harry Potter is fiction and fiction is forgery. Therefore, there must be a "ge[SIZE=-1]nuine" H[SIZE=-1]ogwarts out t[SIZE=-1]her[SIZE=-1]e!
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
I notice at the bottom of the page there are advertisements for four books they're selling on the subject.

I wonder if that affects the bias of the website they created in order to market those books?

Wrong kind of fiction. A hoax or a forgery could be argued to be fiction since they are not real but they are based on something real. Fiction in writing is also not real but it's based on imagination. Better stick with Invisible, intangible, Unicorns and equating math problems with fruit.

 

[ezak420]

You know how the Aliens can fly so high? Because, they used weed.. both industrial and medicinal to get out of debt and fund a great space program.

The really advanced Aliens sleep with an intravenous drip of pure THC.. They use perfectly tuned LED grow lights..

 

[HempKat]

though i've had a sighting of my own, i remain on the sceptical side
and that is the mainstream scientific thought, if they're here it doesn't make much sense in leaving strange cryptic signs
still, strange things seem to happen, and not all seem to be easily explained away

Well the original crop circles that were popping up when people first started hearing of such things weren't as complex and cryptic as what most people think of when they think of crop circles. They were just pretty basic circles and those believing they were caused by aliens thought it was an impression left by alien space craft landing.

Also an interesting note is that while the current enthusiasm over crop circles began in the 1970's there are similar reports that began surfacing when people started to investigate crop circles that date back as far as during Sir Issac Newton's time (25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727). Back then they were attributed to freak wind vortexes even though they couldn't explain how they were so perfectly circular since wind vortexes and tornados typically rip things out of the ground rather then flatten them. Also back then there weren't too many people flying so it's not likely they were made by pranksters since Newton's time slightly pre-dates balloon flight. I can't see people going to all the effort and trouble for something that would be dismissed as a freak wind vortex and would be seen by few people beyond the farmer own the crop. Nor do I see people being so wasteful of food during a time when food was more scarce then now.

 

[Anti]

Perhaps anti doesn't see the flaws in his own reasoning...

Feel free to show me the flaws in my reasoning that you see.

While doing so, be prepared for the possibility that what you percieve as a flaw in my reasoning is actually a flaw in your understanding of my reasoning. If you find an actual flaw, I will thank you for pointing it out to me.

I am interested in the truth.

 

[Anti]

Wrong kind of fiction. A hoax or a forgery could be argued to be fiction since they are not real but they are based on something real. Fiction in writing is also not real but it's based on imagination. Better stick with Invisible, intangible, Unicorns and equating math problems with fruit.

You missed my point.

I'm not surprised.


The author defined his terms in such a way as to fit his preconceived answer.

I did the same. I defined fiction as a hoax. I then used the same logic that the author did... Since it's a forgery, there must be an original being copied.... therefore anything we read has an "original". I.e. hogwarts exists in the story, therefore it must be based on an "original".

I am exposing the flaw in the author's line of reasoning. You don't have to tell me that there's a flaw... because that's MY point.

If I say unicorns exist and you say "prove it" and I say "there's a unicorn in the bible, so therefore, even if the bible is a hoax, there must've been an original REAL unicorn that the biblical forgery unicorn is based on" then you would have to wonder whether I was fucking stupid or whether I thought YOU were stupid.

Because the choice in REALITY isn't HOAX=FORGERY. In reality HOAX could also =FICTION. I could invent something completely new out of my imagination and then trick people into believing in it.

For instance, just because Joseph Smith claims that an Angel appeared to him and gave him golden tablets that he translated into the Book of Mormon, this COULD JUST BE A LIE. It doesn't necessarily mean that a real Angel actually exists or that Joseph really had some golden tablets. It could all be fiction and still be a hoax.

In the exact same way... the existence of hoax crop circle IN NO WAY points to "real" crop circles. They could also be fiction. The author's original statement is wrong.

 

[Feyd]

it's not likely that there is a humanoid alien civilization, or an intelligent life form that isn't worried about day to day survival and reproduction.

i imagine that exploring space expecting to find little green men is kind of like playing scratch off tickets assuming you're guaranteed to hit the jackpot.

i for one hope there isn't a planet out there with life on it. so many variables... what if they are sophisticated and intelligent but aren't compassionate and fearful like humans? they find us and kill us with biological weapons, like applying pesticides to a field, and then use our planet for large scale agriculture and strip mining. or they destroy us and fuck our bodies and eat us. like rapist cannibal viking aliens.

oh shit, just imagine that. viking aliens.

fuck science, let's turn out the lights and pretend we aren't home

 

[legalizeDK]

new vid from hessdalen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pt9kaouINRY

 

[Anti]

new vid from hessdalen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Pt9kaouINRY

Can you point out the UFOs in the vid please?

The only thing that I can even BEGIN to call lights in the sky seem to be reflections/refractions of sunlight through a window. (The camera is inside a house. Sunlight is bouncing off of imperfections in the glass.) Look at the position of the sun relative to the "glowing objects" in the video.

Either that or I am completely missing the two UFOs in the above clip.

 

[DreamsofTesla]

Plus planks and ropes would leave visually damaged crops. What you quoted previously talked about how the undamaged but bent stalk was the sign of a true crop circle as opposed to a faked one.

Well, in a similar sort of vein, snow artist Simon Beck does some amazing graphics that can only be appreciated from an aerial shot by tramping down the snow.

I suspect that crops could be bent without damage dependent upon grow cycle and humidity/moisture.

 

[Suspect]

The swirls and woven patterns still raise some questions.

 

[mrcreosote]

Some other weirdness mentioned in the docs.

http://www.nicap.org/babylon/missile_incidents.htm

I'm gonna guess they don't scramble aircraft to investigate a Cessna or a hawk dropping a prairie dog.

 

[HempKat]

You missed my point.

I'm not surprised.


The author defined his terms in such a way as to fit his preconceived answer.

I did the same. I defined fiction as a hoax. I then used the same logic that the author did... Since it's a forgery, there must be an original being copied.... therefore anything we read has an "original". I.e. hogwarts exists in the story, therefore it must be based on an "original".

I am exposing the flaw in the author's line of reasoning. You don't have to tell me that there's a flaw... because that's MY point.

If I say unicorns exist and you say "prove it" and I say "there's a unicorn in the bible, so therefore, even if the bible is a hoax, there must've been an original REAL unicorn that the biblical forgery unicorn is based on" then you would have to wonder whether I was fucking stupid or whether I thought YOU were stupid.

Because the choice in REALITY isn't HOAX=FORGERY. In reality HOAX could also =FICTION. I could invent something completely new out of my imagination and then trick people into believing in it.

For instance, just because Joseph Smith claims that an Angel appeared to him and gave him golden tablets that he translated into the Book of Mormon, this COULD JUST BE A LIE. It doesn't necessarily mean that a real Angel actually exists or that Joseph really had some golden tablets. It could all be fiction and still be a hoax.

In the exact same way... the existence of hoax crop circle IN NO WAY points to "real" crop circles. They could also be fiction. The author's original statement is wrong.

You're reasoning doesn't work though, let's take your Joseph Smith example, now if he did in fact lie and convince people he saw angels and all the rest it could be called a hoax or forgery because the idea of God, Angels, etc. he draws on already exist in peoples minds, he's not convincing people of the existence of these beings just that they came to him and instructed him to do various things. If that belief of God and Angels didn't exist for him to copy off of he'd have a much harder time convincing people because he would be working from fiction and having to convince people that God and angels exist as well as that they spoke to him and instructed him to do things.

Another problem with your reasoning is you're saying there is a choice and things are being redefined, they are not, that's you reading into them. The author is talking about too specific people who admittedly perpetrated a hoax by faking crop circles and letting others believe they were from aliens or whatever. The author's point is that the forgers had to have something to go by. Which they did, because crop circles in that part of the world date back to the 17th century and there were 200 cases prior to when these guys claimed to have started their hoax in 1970. So nothing was redefined to fit any argument until you tried to twist what the author was saying to suit your argument. This was likely being connected to the claim that all crop circles originated from these two guys, which they did not. I guess you just zeroed in on the line you could twist to you use and ignored the context in the previous paragraph?

 

[HempKat]

Well, in a similar sort of vein, snow artist Simon Beck does some amazing graphics that can only be appreciated from an aerial shot by tramping down the snow.

View Image View Image


I suspect that crops could be bent without damage dependent upon grow cycle and humidity/moisture.

Yes but didn't he start doing that because he knew there would be people flying over or at least could be and therefore able to see it? I'm not saying you have to be able to fly or view from way up in the air to make them I'm just reasoning it's not likely anyone is going to hoax crop circles before people had the ability to see from that vantage point. Who would they be hoaxing? God? Real Aliens?