This Is How You Kill Powder Mildew Forever!!!!!

[oldbootz]

if it has not been said - you can use activated liquid ascorbic acid during any stage in flowering. this kills PM.

 

[dakine1]

yes nothing will work with a filthy room but if the ph of your plant sap drops below a certain level your basically asking for PM... thats how nature works right

 

[Burning Tree]

Give it a shot, find out for yourself. In the mean time why would you bring an infected clone into your grow area...quarantine everything until you have cloned the clone.

Well I wouldn't. I was alluding to more of an experiment that proves that plant sap pH of 6.4 alone is enough to prevent infection. If there is no exposure to a vector then can you actually say it will work as a preventative?

Im not saying that plant health does not go along way to aid prevention but its part of a multi tiered approach when dealing with active pressure from a pathogen.

 

[c-ray]

my plants sap are consistently reading pH 6.2-6.4, I use no sprays that would be used to kill pm, I live in a forest full of pm infected plants, yet my plants have zero pm

simply put when the plant sap is at pH 6.4 the conditions are not right for a pm spore to germinate and/or grow

if pm infects a plant then that was not a healthy plant, while it may appear healthy looks can be deceiving.. it is actually a plant not fit for human consumption, but it's great fungi food..

my plants used to have pm all the time but I got fed up with it and surfed the net a long time before finding the ultimate solution, and as a bonus I got to learn how about soil balancing, high brix gardening and ultimately how to grow the highest quality plants possible

 

[Burning Tree]

my plants sap are consistently reading pH 6.2-6.4, I use no sprays that would be used to kill pm, I live in a forest full of pm infected plants, yet my plants have zero pm

simply put when the plant sap is at pH 6.4 the conditions are not right for a pm spore to germinate and/or grow

if pm infects a plant then that was not a healthy plant, while it may appear healthy looks can be deceiving.. it is actually a plant not fit for human consumption, but it's great fungi food..

my plants used to have pm all the time but I got fed up with it and surfed the net a long time before finding the ultimate solution, and as a bonus I got to learn how about soil balancing, high brix gardening and ultimately how to grow the highest quality plants possible

Do you live in a hemp forest? There are only 2 species of PM in which cannabis is a host plant.

You act like you have the cure and haven't even been exposed to the proper pathogen.

I guarantee sap pH of 6.4 will not stop an active infestation. It may possibly provide some preventive properties as overall good plant health generally does but its not a cure.

How bout some pics of this cutting edge high brix garden of yours?

 

[c-ray]

oh believe you me I am very familiar with pm since it was a common occurrence in our gardens for over a decade, but no more.. I use a microscope to check the leaves and they are clean, our plants laugh at pm now.. sure I can post pics but will that prove anything? if you are sincere about learning how to grow poison free medicine you will prove it to yourself bottom line, I am not going to be holding anyone's hand, I can only point to the door and say I've gone through and joined the folks already here and brought others through into the light.. if you want to join us the door is always open, otherwise I suggest you get out of the way because there are many folks willing to learn what it takes to grow the highest quality medicine possible and this is only possible without the use of poisons...

 

[Burning Tree]

oh believe you me I am very familiar with pm since it was a common occurrence in our gardens for over a decade, but no more.. I use a microscope to check the leaves and they are clean, our plants laugh at pm now.. sure I can post pics but will that prove anything? if you are sincere about learning how to grow poison free medicine you will prove it to yourself bottom line, I am not going to be holding anyone's hand, I can only point to the door and say I've gone through and joined the folks already here and brought others through into the light.. if you want to join us the door is always open, otherwise I suggest you get out of the way because there are many folks willing to learn what it takes to grow the highest quality medicine possible and this is only possible without the use of poisons...

Yes I grow poison because I use ionic salts for nutes and have used E20 properly to eliminate an active infestation in my room.

You know if you didn't come off like a preachy charlatan and actually had a bit of evidence to SHOW for what you repost from all over the web maybe I'd be a bit more intrigued.

Pics of pH pens displaying 6.4 and tales of super human plants immune to all pathogenic vectors is not going to cut it, not for me at least.

If a plant displaying 6.4 pH is treated with Myclobutanil will the pH drift from the optimum range? Are you familiar with the half life of Myclobutanil in leaf tissue?

If interested please read the attachment.

 

[Burning Tree]

Are you suggesting that my environment is filthy, or that those who consistently experience problems have a filthy environment? Either way, I agree with the statement in a general sense. I would not agree that mine is a filthy environment (my indoor area).

In the meantime, how 'filthy' is it outside? How would one address the 'problem' outdoors? What would *you* do if you observed PM in 30% RH and in full sun?

I hit it with JMS Stylet oil and give a foliar tea of some sort, look toward improving total plant health.

I still can't figure out why I see PM on summer squashes only in late summer, usually August, irrespective of RH or rain. Two years ago we had no rain, yet the yellow crookneck showed PM. Last year I grew only winter squashes--no PM.

Not all PM requires high humidity for spore germination. In fact some adapt to xerophytic conditions. Leveillula taurica's conidia , for a cannabis specific example, are able to germinate at 0% RH.

 

[c-ray]

I paid 40 bucks for a refractometer and pH 5.5-8.0 papers..
anyone who is sincere will acquire both, take some readings and do a little bit of reading - in order to understand what it is they are saying..
that is step 1
it is only 40 bucks, not really a big hurdle more of a mental hurdle
worst case scenario one learns the plant sap pH and brix of the plants in their garden
best case scenario one learns that there is whole lot more to learn about growing vital plants, and in the learning is created enthusiasm anew for the life of one's garden, much like when one first started growing,.. and ultimately this enthusiasm spills over into one's social life and we all live happily ever after the end

 

[EclipseFour20]

You guys are both right....lol. High humidity favors spore formation while low humidity favors spore dispersal. Some spores are inhibited by free moisture on leaves while others are favored by wetness on leaf surfaces. Remember, PM spores are EVERYWHERE--said differently, they do not limit their congregation to just dirty grow environments and skip clean environments. The rule of nature prevails: strong & healthy plants survive at the expense of feeble & weak plants.

Then we have the rule breaker....specific plants that have PM issues irregardless of the plant's health (like zucchini)...you know the plants that disregard and ignore the normal PM rules. These are probably less than 20% of the problems (80/20 rule) and I happen to have one of these fussy pussies that if I DO NOT spray with Eagle at the rate of 1ml per gallon of water--PM is all but guaranteed!

In my world, 32 oz of Eagle solution can easily spray 10 to 20 plants (equiv to 40 to 80 plants per gallon)...and based on my calculations, I do not consider this minute dosage (1ml per gallon rate) to be "unhealthy" or "irresponsible" to cover 40 to 80 plants.

If you disagree....fine! But do the math before hyperventilating! How much "poison" is on a harvested bud (60 day flower let's say) if the plant was sprayed in veg at the rate of 1ml per gal @ 40 to 80 plants? Since I yield about 100 grams per plant....then I guess we could divide 1ml of Eagle into 4000 to 8000 grams....hmmmm. How many zeros after the decimal point? Then factor in the half-life/residual, oh there are too many zeros to count....lol! At this point, an accounting term comes to mind, "materiality", is it "material"? Nah.....not in the grand scheme of things.

Cheers!

 

[c-ray]

I grow mad pm free zucchini all day every day, love me zucchini..

 

[EclipseFour20]

Ahhh the 80/20 rule....finding a single exception does not invalidate the 80/20 conclusion, rather it actually validates it (by allowing for certain exceptions).

That said, my yellow crooked neck zuchs have zero PM, but not so with the Italian variety. What does that prove? Nothing and everything. The seeds for the crooked neck I got from "Seedsavers" and the Italian seeds were from Home Depot...hmmm, what can that mean?....lol.


Cheers!

 

[YosemiteSam]

Well I wouldn't. I was alluding to more of an experiment that proves that plant sap pH of 6.4 alone is enough to prevent infection. If there is no exposure to a vector then can you actually say it will work as a preventative?

Im not saying that plant health does not go along way to aid prevention but its part of a multi tiered approach when dealing with active pressure from a pathogen.

You know...you are probably more right than I am. For some reason I have been really bitchy the last couple of weeks. I apologize for that shitty answer I gave.

You have to have the proper balance of minerals to achieve that pH of 6.4...for example you could replace Ca cations in the cell with K and still get a 6.4 sap pH. In that case your brix would drop seriously and you could, in fact, get PM.

On the other hand with decent balance Nutri Tech has monitored thousands of samples and has yet to see PM on a plant with proper brix and sap pH.

It could still happen. But mineral balance is a powerful tool and is a much better solution than chemicals.

edit...also once a plant has PM sap pH gets fucked up. So you probably cannot stop an infection in a particular plant. On the other end...high sap pH calls in the insects...you can get insects to leave a plant by adjusting plant sap pH with foliars...seen that one with me own peepers.

 

[Burning Tree]

You guys are both right....lol.

High humidity favors spore formation while low humidity favors spore dispersal.

Some spores are inhibited by free moisture on leaves while others are favored by wetness on leaf surfaces. Remember, PM spores are EVERYWHERE--said differently, they do not limit their congregation to just dirty grow environments and skip clean environments. The rule of nature prevails: strong & healthy plants survive at the expense of feeble & weak plants.

Then we have the rule breaker....specific plants that have PM issues irregardless of the plant's health (like zucchini)...you know the plants that disregard and ignore the normal PM rules. These are probably less than 20% of the problems (80/20 rule) and I happen to have one of these fussy pussies that if I DO NOT spray with Eagle at the rate of 1ml per gallon of water--PM is all but guaranteed!

In my world, 32 oz of Eagle solution can easily spray 10 to 20 plants (equiv to 40 to 80 plants per gallon)...and based on my calculations, I do not consider this minute dosage (1ml per gallon rate) to be "unhealthy" or "irresponsible" to cover 40 to 80 plants.

If you disagree....fine! But do the math before hyperventilating! How much "poison" is on a harvested bud (60 day flower let's say) if the plant was sprayed in veg at the rate of 1ml per gal @ 40 to 80 plants? Since I yield about 100 grams per plant....then I guess we could divide 1ml of Eagle into 4000 to 8000 grams....hmmmm. How many zeros after the decimal point? Then factor in the half-life/residual, oh there are too many zeros to count....lol! At this point, an accounting term comes to mind, "materiality", is it "material"? Nah.....not in the grand scheme of things.

Cheers!

Disinfecting a grow room once a week goes along way in an overall IPM strategy and reduces foreign spore load substantially.

PM spores are everywhere outside when they are in season. However in a totally sealed environmentally controlled indoor grow environment YOU are the only vector and source of infection entering your room from the outside world.

I will agree with you on the usage of E20. However looking at your math in the 1 mL per gallon of e20 only 20% of that mL is myclobutanil. The rest are the solvents used to help penetrate the cuticle. So the residual will be even less than you are calculating.

 

[Burning Tree]

You know...you are probably more right than I am. For some reason I have been really bitchy the last couple of weeks. I apologize for that shitty answer I gave.

You have to have the proper balance of minerals to achieve that pH of 6.4...for example you could replace Ca cations in the cell with K and still get a 6.4 sap pH. In that case your brix would drop seriously and you could, in fact, get PM.

On the other hand with decent balance Nutri Tech has monitored thousands of samples and has yet to see PM on a plant with proper brix and sap pH.

It could still happen. But mineral balance is a powerful tool and is a much better solution than chemicals.

edit...also once a plant has PM sap pH gets fucked up. So you probably cannot stop an infection in a particular plant. On the other end...high sap pH calls in the insects...you can get insects to leave a plant by adjusting plant sap pH with foliars...seen that one with me own peepers.

YS. No apology necessary. I feel I was in a similar mood when I addressed you! You are a gentleman and a scholar!

I know in the past I have seen you say it is hard to achieve these brix levels with off the shelf nutes. I've been using Jacks Professional Hydro with Calcinit for about 3 months now. Seeing you have dabbled with these nutes in the past were you able to achieve optimum brix levels with them?

I would also expect to see the pH change after a plant is infected as you said. PM use specialized cells called haustoria to remove nutrition from inside the leaves. As the PM removes ions from the cytoplasm then the pH would drift which ever way accordingly.

When I first encountered sap pH I thought of using it in the above regard, as a diagnostic tool to detect problems early. Its a measure of some particular element of health of the plant that will change with nutrition and presence of pathogens. It seems people such as C-ray are using it to achieve this mythical number of 6.4 as a preventative to all things pathogenic.

 

[shabad]

When in flower I use...

When in flower I use...

~Warm joyful wishes~

1st part of keeping a healthy environment is always cleanliness!

2 is quarantine any plants brought in from others and treat accordingly with Eagle 20.

If I get pm in flower I use Oxidate. It works really well. Washes away the mold and mildew. You just have to dry quickly so that it does not come back! Oxidate is hydrogen peroxide with an extra molecule. It breaks down to being just water.

Sat Nam
(truth is the Name)

 

[YosemiteSam]

I could not get high brix with Jack's. The problem is all the K they use and the fact that they use KNO3 to achieve it at the expense of CaNO3. This is the common hydro paradigm though.

If you get all of your NO3 from CaNO3 you can achieve a 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio with decent Mg levels...and then by limiting your K to basically equal levels as NO3 you do not lock out Mg with it.

This formula works very well in hydro or coco...

CaNO3...2.44 grams per gallon
epsom...1.6
mkp....1.33

Plus the usual micro suspects. If memory serves it is
100-80-100-117-40-53 N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S.

In hydro you gotta keep the nutes in the 6-6.2 pH range...but once in the plant you will get close to 6.4 and at least over 10 on brix. Your plants will be far healthier than the normal hydro paradigm formulas.

I have used it in coco and a friend uses it in dwc...so it isn't speculation, it is experience.

 

[Kcar]

How much STEM or MOST would you use with that formula?

 

[YosemiteSam]

I use 0.1 STEM and about 0.05 grams Fe dpta with that.

Slightly more simple than your avg bottled nute

 

[Kcar]

The 7.5% Fe in the STEM is not enough?