A Demonic Deluge

[FlowerFarmer]

I've got some questions back at the res side of things.


I had in my head that I'd use my 27 gal strong box as my pulse res fed by a larger 100/Gal rubbermaid stationed above it. After thinking about it a bit I realized that it likely will not be large enough to accommodate for the full pulse.. thus the reason you have those two side reservoirs as pictured? Is there a certain volume I'm looking so that the juice are sucking n' pulling and all that magic. I'll be doing 7 trees (same 7 gal top/3gal bottom module as yours). Drains will be 1/2" (ran independently back to res) and I've got a 1000GPH pump I think I could use. I'm limited on space for my pulse res so don't have the width to do something like you've pictured. Thinking I may be able to connect a few totes together under the basement steps if that is what I've got to do. I now realize one big pulse res doesnt work as it can still only hold a minimal amount of solution to maintain proper level in the ppk module. This means you have to do something like you've pictured with those two side reservoirs correct?

Also, Your pulse lines are independently ran to each plant and are 1/4" correct? I'm trying to figure best way for tubing management considering I'll be doing 7 trees in a diamond pattern. Yours are nicely tucked up in that trough. Can my pulse lines just be a big loop of 1/2" with the two 1/4" feed lines barbed off of it to each PPK.



I'm sure I'll get it figured once I've got it all setup, but just trying to make sure I don't overlook something and give myself an oh shit moment after having bought/drilled an assortment of containers.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

I really hope that day never comes. Cause that means there is no more experimentation or opinion or argueing or thinking or anything that makes life worth living.

 

[delta9nxs]

"So higher rootzone temps are more conducive to explosive rootmass and foliage/budsite growth ?......"

"plants grow best when their roots are sitting in a warm, nutrient rich, fog." approx quote from lucas.

in hydro culture sometimes we see air temps of 86f and root temps of 65f if they are using both co2 and a chiller.

that's an extreme spread and i feel that it causes a down regulation of growth.

looking at soil temperature gradient data we see that the top 2 ft of soil is usually very close to the air temperature. this is the area where most of the roots active o2 uptake occurs.

heat makes everything move faster and temperature is the second most powerful regulator of growth after light.

 

[high life 45]

i would not use the 8822 with any cutter at all. it doesn't need it and you are in danger of water stress at all times with an air porosity greater than about 35%.

there is a real danger that the medium could dry down faster than either the wick or the pulse can supply. especially in hot, dry rooms. rh 40-50% or less.

i have never used 8822 but with coco i poured an ec 4 solution through it one time and cured the initial display from the ion tie up.

this is in a container that has just been rinsed heavily and has just stopped dripping. going into an already wet medium the ec 4 seems to be about right for the plant after draining and diluting with the existing water in the medium.

I had major clogage in the one run that I didnt add rice hulls and I truly regretted it. I personally would not grow in a ppk with diatomite and no rice hulls. I highly respect your opinion and you are THE go2 guy for me when it comes anything ppk related. I just have to chime in and say that based on my experience I would recommend that one mix rice hulls with the 8822. The air porosity certainly hasn't affect my 7' plants, but I am not using a saturation pulse either, because at the moment I dont have the time to dial it in and I dont trust my partners to do it. I wish turface was readily available where I am at.

 

[delta9nxs]

I've got some questions back at the res side of things.


I had in my head that I'd use my 27 gal strong box as my pulse res fed by a larger 100/Gal rubbermaid stationed above it. After thinking about it a bit I realized that it likely will not be large enough to accommodate for the full pulse.. thus the reason you have those two side reservoirs as pictured? Is there a certain volume I'm looking so that the juice are sucking n' pulling and all that magic. I'll be doing 7 trees (same 7 gal top/3gal bottom module as yours). Drains will be 1/2" (ran independently back to res) and I've got a 1000GPH pump I think I could use. I'm limited on space for my pulse res so don't have the width to do something like you've pictured. Thinking I may be able to connect a few totes together under the basement steps if that is what I've got to do. I now realize one big pulse res doesnt work as it can still only hold a minimal amount of solution to maintain proper level in the ppk module. This means you have to do something like you've pictured with those two side reservoirs correct?

Also, Your pulse lines are independently ran to each plant and are 1/4" correct? I'm trying to figure best way for tubing management considering I'll be doing 7 trees in a diamond pattern. Yours are nicely tucked up in that trough. Can my pulse lines just be a big loop of 1/2" with the two 1/4" feed lines barbed off of it to each PPK.



I'm sure I'll get it figured once I've got it all setup, but just trying to make sure I don't overlook something and give myself an oh shit moment after having bought/drilled an assortment of containers.

well, you need enough water to flood all your containers plus keep whatever pump you are using from starving and sucking air. i find that's about a minimum of about 3 inches with aquarium type pumps. a sump or bilge pump might be able to operate with less depth.


you need sufficient volume above that level and that volume, if you are using the same containers and medium i do, will be a maximum of about 2 gals per container so for you with 7 sites that's 14 gals per pulse.

in any medium to get an exact pulse volume for planning purposes load your container with medium with the tailpieces blocked then flood it to the surface and drain it into a bucket for measuring.

taking a common 50 gal drum as a test subject because they are 24" in diameter we see that the drum at 3" holds 5.87 gals. you need 14 more bringing it to 19.87 gals total volume or 20 gals.

we know that we need 7-8" of operating depth with the 3.5 gal 11" high buckets. being conservative to err on the safe side let's say 8" necessitating 5" of water above the pumps requirement of 3".

the math shows us that, at 24" diameter, 5" of water is 9.792 gals or not enough.

one container is better if you can find one the right size. i did the extension chambers temporarily to get through this grow. and i'm still deciding plant numbers and stuff.

i think a flat 50 gal tub would do it for you with 7 sites.

Rubbermaid 54 Gallon Roughneck Hi-Top Tote

Model # FG3A05H2MICBL

Store SKU # 801975

this is from home depot and will hold at least 17.5 gals available for pulse.

cheap too!

and about the pulse lines. i don't think the drip tubing tech is sufficient for saturation pulsing.

you need something that will take a little pressure.

 

[delta9nxs]

I had major clogage in the one run that I didnt add rice hulls and I truly regretted it. I personally would not grow in a ppk with diatomite and no rice hulls. I highly respect your opinion and you are THE go2 guy for me when it comes anything ppk related. I just have to chime in and say that based on my experience I would recommend that one mix rice hulls with the 8822. The air porosity certainly hasn't affect my 7' plants, but I am not using a saturation pulse either, because at the moment I dont have the time to dial it in and I dont trust my partners to do it. I wish turface was readily available where I am at.

well, you have grown in it and i haven't so i defer but be careful with that shit because there is something in it causing it to cake. may just be a lot of fine particle.

other than the clogs my worry with it is that it, mixed with rice hulls at 3/1 could allow the medium to dry down if there is a pulse failure.

go to turface.com they have a dealer locator there that shows 6 vendors in your state.

 

[high life 45]

LOL I was just looking at that same page earlier today. I know I tried to source it originally. I will try harder this time. Last time I think I found it to be 8x as expensive as 8822.

 

[delta9nxs]

http://www.lathamexcavation.com/pumice.html

these people show "horticultural grade" 1/8"-3/8" size and are located in central oregon. i'm pretty sure i have seen this stuff in planters maintained by pro ornamental plant people at the hospital. i would like to try it.

 

[Grow4Flow]

Delta9,
Let just start by sating "Wow!". I have read a good deal of your pulse thread, but not all as i felt my brain starting to rupture. I won't lie, it was so much to read that i had to start skimming in an attempt to find the main info that i so easily missed.

-What nutes do you use?

-This Jacks formula, is it replacing the need for Calmag?

-What happens to the solution in each site after the plant has already used it, is it always sitting in the lower bucket of each site or does it cycle back to the main rez?

-no bubblers in each site, doesn't it become anaerobic and harmful to the plants?

I am sorry if i missed all this but it is a ton to ready. Having already bought another Greentrees multiflow system, i feel like i could have built one of the and got rid of the chiller, air pumps et.c that add to the overall power consumption.

Thanks in advance

 

[catman]

I am sorry if i missed all this but it is a ton to ready. Having already bought another Greentrees multiflow system, i feel like i could have built one of the and got rid of the chiller, air pumps et.c that add to the overall power consumption.

Ditch the air pumps. With multiflow, you should have plenty of DO if your pump is big enough and you got your plumbing configured right. Otherwise, use a 12V bubble maker aka bait fish well for boats. You're on the right track, don't fix what ain't broke because someone can still otherwise grow some big plants and pluck off all the dead foliage..

 

[SecondAttempt]

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-horsepower-clear-water-pump-with-float-switch-68486.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-horsepower-clear-water-pump-with-float-switch-69296.html

Anybody have experience with either of these pumps... the second one only needs 3/4 inch of water.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

http://www.harborfreight.com/13-horsepower-clear-water-pump-with-float-switch-69296.html

Anybody have experience with either of these pumps... the second one only needs 3/4 inch of water.

That does seem pretty sexy. Does it have a ball float to turn it off before it runs dry too...

 

[SecondAttempt]

of course they have float switches... the best China has to offer. A few posts earlier it was being discussed about res level and such. I know with the PPK you only use a small portion of a large tote. I suppose you could elevate the PPK sites above the res a little to gain a little more res depth too but for those of us with limited headroom... These ideas keep me awake at night.

 

[delta9nxs]

Thanks for this excellent discussion. Very timely for me as I'm about to germinate my first PPK seeds.

Have a nice day. bg

it's about time, dude!

 

[delta9nxs]

“Delta9,
Let just start by sating "Wow!". I have read a good deal of your pulse thread, but not all as i felt my brain starting to rupture. I won't lie, it was so much to read that i had to start skimming in an attempt to find the main info that i so easily missed.”

thank you!

“-What nutes do you use?”

jack's hydroponic special 5-12-26 from jrpeterslab.com mixed with calcium nitrate at a ratio of 1/.66

“-This Jacks formula, is it replacing the need for Calmag?”

Yes

-What happens to the solution in each site after the plant has already used it, is it always sitting in the lower bucket of each site or does it cycle back to the main rez?

It is a recirculating system.

“-no bubblers in each site, doesn't it become anaerobic and harmful to the plants?”

this device does not rely on water as a transporter of o2. For all practical purposes the water could be intentionally depleted of all free o2 molecules and the device will still grow a beautiful plant.

“I am sorry if i missed all this but it is a ton to ready. Having already bought another Greentrees multiflow system, i feel like i could have built one of the and got rid of the chiller, air pumps et.c that add to the overall power consumption.”

yep, and saved a shitpile of cash too!

“Thanks in advance”

you do be welcome!

 

[delta9nxs]

That does seem pretty sexy. Does it have a ball float to turn it off before it runs dry too...

i like 'em too dave! we know we got it bad when we get turned on by a water pump!

 

[delta9nxs]

of course they have float switches... the best China has to offer. A few posts earlier it was being discussed about res level and such. I know with the PPK you only use a small portion of a large tote. I suppose you could elevate the PPK sites above the res a little to gain a little more res depth too but for those of us with limited headroom... These ideas keep me awake at night.

i haven't slept in 14 years!

 

[SecondAttempt]

... and for that we thank you.

 

[Grow4Flow]

“Delta9,
Let just start by sating "Wow!". I have read a good deal of your pulse thread, but not all as i felt my brain starting to rupture. I won't lie, it was so much to read that i had to start skimming in an attempt to find the main info that i so easily missed.”

thank you!

“-What nutes do you use?”

jack's hydroponic special 5-12-26 from jrpeterslab.com mixed with calcium nitrate at a ratio of 1/.66

“-This Jacks formula, is it replacing the need for Calmag?”

Yes

-What happens to the solution in each site after the plant has already used it, is it always sitting in the lower bucket of each site or does it cycle back to the main rez?

It is a recirculating system.

“-no bubblers in each site, doesn't it become anaerobic and harmful to the plants?”

this device does not rely on water as a transporter of o2. For all practical purposes the water could be intentionally depleted of all free o2 molecules and the device will still grow a beautiful plant.

“I am sorry if i missed all this but it is a ton to ready. Having already bought another Greentrees multiflow system, i feel like i could have built one of the and got rid of the chiller, air pumps et.c that add to the overall power consumption.”

yep, and saved a shitpile of cash too!

“Thanks in advance”

you do be welcome!

Thank you sir! me thinks it is time for something new.....Subscribed (well, a long time ago)

Hope you don't mind too many questions, but how often does this system recirc the nutes? didn't notice a return pump unless delivery pump is doing both?

 

[delta9nxs]

Thank you sir! me thinks it is time for something new.....Subscribed (well, a long time ago)

Hope you don't mind too many questions, but how often does this system recirc the nutes? didn't notice a return pump unless delivery pump is doing both?

howdy, welcome aboard!

there is a single pump in the main reservoir. every time it fires solution is moved through the system.

you control frequency and volume with a timer.