Weird 3 point leaves

[johnnyrotten]

Man Johnny, that #1 is really chunking up.

Yeah, #1 is looking a little faster than #2... They didn't stretch much either, they are the shortest plants I have...I'd think they are more indica than anything else judging by height but they arent the flowering very fast...which also could be because they had too much nitrogen when they started flower...the leaves are now starting to turn yellow...

I know, it's crazy isn't it...I never knew that there was such thing as a ducksfoot until I started this thread!

 

[johnnyrotten]

perfect johnny...

the male i had reverted...so it coulda been my ways or the line..but he won't be used at all..and the line Im trying at 1 point involved selfed progeny and I won't be breeding with them..Im just trying them and was hoping for solid plants..so unless the next 2 express stable and make it all the way thru I wont have much to offer either...
I do know that Ducksfoot, StrawberryWebs, HWebbedIndica's and/or HawIndicas have been worked for a while and rel'd in many forms...just gata dig around...
Maybe this thread will provoke a old timer to soak those webbed feet and bring it back for the masses...their still out there...
I have a breeder pk Wally foots but Im not goin there for a while myself..just wanted to explore the lines and gata say..we learned allot more than I ever thought we would...but its what it is..and where its at...
2.200 views?...someone's watchin this for a reason...
FOE20

How did you revert a male? I'll have to look up the strawberry too...its possible these are an unrelated genetic mutation...

 

[FOE20]

the line Im trying johnny had used a selfed line prior at one point..But it could of been a number of reasons..non-acclimated, stressed, etc...point is if a plant reverts to early it has a early trigger to me..What its from could be all sorts of things but its still early..
If it would of been after wk 7 or so it may be a diff story but I can't use a male thats that touchy..stable is stable...cause I don't wana make offspring that could trigger early as well...
On these types what I was saying is their all prob related...if not then their a short distance from teh orig lines..like StrawWebs may be a hybrid of HWindica or Ducksfoot x StrawHaze...or its just a Webbed that smells or has strawberry type traits...IMO its teh foliage...Webbed foliage early looks almost spot on for strawberry foliage...
In Sams case I thonk he just bred with a large pool of genetics and what came out of them he was still learning about to...Thats why he doesn't have much to say cause even tho he bred these their still a mixed lot..meaning its usually test runs of seed lots looking for stand outs..But I'd say what you have is one of the orig releases of the Webs..
and back then there were only 2 types that were talked on..HawWebbed Indica's and Wallys Ducksfoot..I'd almost bet the StrawberryWebs are just a off shoot of a Haw variation of the same lines..
Im still flowering mine but the #3 short 1 is also a male...Im not gana finish flowering it tho so Im holding the clones til I see what the last 1 has to say...hows your doin brah?..
you should be all P-K now and bout 3-4wks away...keep rollin
FOE20

 

[johnnyrotten]

Duck 2 - more brown pistils than any other I have right now, showing a few amber trichs as well

View attachment 194551

Duck 1
View attachment 194552

 

[FOE20]

they look great man but I'd say only half way there...if you have amber resins its still to early to give it attention as your also watching those pistils and caylx's fill in..but that plant has a ways to go so don't push her..keep flushin cause its also quite dark still and I'd def go the next wk or 2 with a low P-K /carb diet...this will unlock any excess N and in combo with the P-K blow up and frost them buds for the next 2wks+...but they should yield well for ya to if you keep them goin...
btw you sure the pistils are brown and not Pink?...you may want to look closer in proper lighting..plus hows the resins smell?....
FOE20

 

[johnnyrotten]

They smell very citrus like an orange and I'm pretty sure that they aren't pink... They leaves are starting to yellow, those plants look darker in photos than they really are but I was also thinking they should take longer as well, so I was surprised to see amber trichs... This plant definitely has indica traits...

 

[medicalmj]

Nice cola, but I agree w FOE20, and say she's got 3 weeks left. I grew a GDP that had deep blood red to purple trichs. So maybe the color you are seeing is natural early on. In this case I'd go by the pistil test...harvest when 3/4 have receded into calyx.

 

[johnnyrotten]

Sounds good to me!

 

[FOE20]

hey johnny if it is yellowing to fast, like eating itself from the bottom up like we spoke on then make sure you do have a slight bit of N in the formula for this wk..a 1-4-5 or 1-5-6...the 1-4-5 would even be better used last wk and this wk..
You see these formulas...they seem very similar...but its the % of N vs the P-K that matters...the first is a basic Botanicare SoilBloom@1-4-5 but its a bit more rich and may work best for this wk if your yellowing to fast..The other formula is from AN's Sensi line(non-pH perfect) and it has a 1-5-6 formula which is only slightly lower N with a bit higher % of P-K..Since your feel is that the plant is more Indica..I'd say go with that feel but even then were shooting for a min of 3wks..So this wk a lil more food...next wk less N more P-K and carbs...last wk round down P-K, boost carbs for last time and then flush for another wk..The lower feeding right before flush is actually a pre-flush and will help the plant use up anything thats left..
smells like oranges huh....didn;t expect that...heh....not a bad thing but citrus is one of the widest effect profiles in the canna world...so guess the resins arn't gana tell us much yet...also may be a bit early and can really change by late bloom..I have a HKush that smells sickeningly sweet at 5-6wks by wks 7-8 its super repulsive acrid ....great notes and work johnny...keep rollin
FOE20

 

[johnnyrotten]

Yep, I'm still learning... When to harvest is getting a little confusing... I hope you don't mind if I put a couple photos of my other plants up...

This plant is supposed to be a Romulan and has been under 12/12 for 10 days longer than the ducks...she was on day 57 when these photos were taken 3 days ago... She's still showing mostly clear trichs, the cola looks swollen but I'm unsure when to start my two week flush... I'm thinking I might want to start the two week on Sunday, what do you think?

View attachment 195002

 

[medicalmj]

Yep, I'm still learning... When to harvest is getting a little confusing... I hope you don't mind if I put a couple photos of my other plants up...

This plant is supposed to be a Romulan and has been under 12/12 for 10 days longer than the ducks...she was on day 57 when these photos were taken 3 days ago... She's still showing mostly clear trichs, the cola looks swollen but I'm unsure when to start my two week flush... I'm thinking I might want to start the two week on Sunday, what do you think?

View attachment 195002

She's got some nute problems with the dead leaves that far up. Could be a lock out, salt build up, etc. Bottom line is that she's still not all the there, but growth is gonna be slow from here on out.

When that happens and the buds are thick like that I look at the size of the calyxes toward the inside of the bud and check the trichs on that part. Then I determine the point of diminishing returns comparing the inside vs. outside of bud. IMHO you might be looking at chopping soon. See if you can get the calyxes on outer part to swell a lil more. I hit em hard w liquid kool bloom and whatever bloom stimulator (all contain same type of seaweed - Laminaria Digitata)

 

[FOE20]

what I see there is what I call a blown out cola...its what happens to some hybrid varieties that don;t need much N after bloom starts..plus Rom is a perty fast finisher so thats why it looks past its due date as well..
(some times it is the cola being to close to lights and heat stress will also keep colas fluffy and trying to breath more..so that must be considered)
Looks to be started off a bit dark to start...right there will cause probs thru bloom if the balance of P-K don;t match that amount of stored N...so what happens is we feed a deep green plant our P-K formulas but also in turn it unlocks stored N and the way I put it is...It grows calyx's instead of swells athen and also resin prod slows or halts..
Basically cause the amount of N is still a bit to high overall...The dead leaves are cause its been eating itself trying to find more food or dry/wet cycles or who knows...
But yea you can tell first off teh calyx's have been swellin enough cause the Leaf2calyx ratio would be better...
If you have the Rom still just do the same but cut food in half first wk watching the N content..2nd wk you;ll know if it needed more but also you start o mix in the P-K as its a strain that blooms faster so you want a lil earlier P-K taste cause it has a earlier trigger point..the diff between the Webs and a Rom is webs would eat a lil less and flower longer..Roms will eat more but a similar amount of N at onset but a good consistent amount of P-K from wk 2 thru 6 cause Rom will finish by 8-10ks tops...
But when I see cattails in colas it mean to much N and P-K...when its not showing allot of calyx's but theres plenty of foliage and its still deep green it says not enough P-K and to much N even at the levels that may work for other types..
You gata dial each variety by its own needs first..then premeditate how it would need to be fed thru bloom to reach its full maturation...Meaning some Indos like to be lime green(low N) and then you give them mild amounts of P-K and they end up proper..
But a ind dom still would eat similar but in that case it may want more N and more P-K overall meaning deeper green most the way thru bloom with almost equal amounts of P-K to..Or some which start off mid green and like mild amounts of N thru mid bloom but massive amounts of P-K...or hardly any at tall....All these variations will also express differently just by slight variations in the timing of the use of the formulas..
So goal is...Use early budset to get a Feel of how long a type will take to bloom..
In veg you will feel out its pH and low and heavy feed ranges and use that to keep it healthy thru bloom....Same thought in bloom but soon as that budset is nice, thick and full...its P-K time...and when its Flower time(also can be called fruit on female plants) we need Carbs to...but if the P-K is pushed to fast or to hard and not balanced well with N ya can get all types of expressions....anyway sorry for the over explanation...keep it rollin
FOE20

 

[johnnyrotten]

Damn, that was a long post! I'm gonna have to read it a couple times again but I think that the information is starting to sink in...

I upped her on pk on Sunday, glad I did something right! Think I'm just gonna flush her for a week starting this Sunday. then start her clone and try to get it right... Hopefully, it's not schwag...

 

[johnnyrotten]

Please corect me if I'm wrong but I think that the Romulan would have been better off if I hadn't of pruned the bottom branches off (it has two colas and three other branches)... I also removed many of the fan leaves from the front of the plant... The backside of the colas doesn't show the same deficiencies as those facing the light... I'm I thinking correctly?

 

[FOE20]

But yea you can tell first off teh calyx's have been swellin enough cause the Leaf2calyx ratio would be better

yea sorry johnny it was allot to explain tho and maybe this post wont be as long..heh...and this quote I said above needed correction...its the "Calyx's haven't been swelling" enough...
This gives the look of a growing cola?...and not a swelling/resinating maturing cola..
first 2-4wks we are growing a Cola(s)...(budset and early bloom form)
When we impose that P-K and use the left over N were only at that point aprox 3-4wks in of Feeding the new partly dev flowers at the start of their cycle...Some people actually look at wk 2 as the first time to impose Bloom nutes in general on most ind dom strains..
Rom being Ind dom but a hybrid makes a slight adjustment needed to make it reach that full maturation..
If you have grown a Urkel?...it grows similar to that but a bit less N over all...Or really feed Rom like a Bubba if you push bloom times or flower cycles and more P-K to..no biggie but yea it will be hard as you will not get a true expression at all at this point..
Heres a more simple way to deal with this type of thing..


let me give you 3 options, or ask you 3 questions and you tell me how you are handling it from there...and this is no matter how the plant looks and Im gana try to tell you how they will react..
1 - If there is Any deeper reserve of N...if you flush what do you think happens?...(not enough P-K and you get blown out and low resin prod, it can;t flower right cause its still using that dom amount of N to grow)
2 - A good amount of P-K till N starts to fade..usually will give you swelling calyx's and resin prod will increase all thru the flower stage..It starts to fade mid way(pure flowering wks after budset) about 5-6wks in and caly's swell and pistils have stopped prod and started to wilt as well...this would be a standard growth patten..

3 - to much P-K would force a even faster flowering where the calyx's don't quite swell enough but you get lil frosted popcorn buds...in turn it does use the residual N but can cause cattails and funky lookin cola form..even tho the form is more relative to classic Haze or fluffy types of grow patterns..

I see it like...a Flower is a Flower...Cannabis makes Colas which are its flowers...If those flowers do not fill in, swell, resinate, and dense up and pale out and die off..It never made it thru the entire cycle...So what you can do is look back at these examples and get a feel for what would of made impact to start...and then go by feel to get it right watching the reactions of the plant..
Remember the Web convo about delaying flower time a lil?...
On Rom you would not do that...It grows more like a mixed Ind dom AfghanKush...would finish much faster and need the extre P-K to really help her pack it on..As said Rom is a good eater but mild to mod amounts of N and them a nice P-K blast thru bloom..

Now just for you johnny my man...guess what I happen to have to show this progression?...a Rom dom SQueen phenom...shown at every point of flower I just spoke on...(all pics are a progression)
First we have a pre-bloom pic to show the depth of N it liked pre-bloom..now look at the Budset pic..Plant actually lightens up budset kicks in cause its both growing and to "form flowers"..
Next pic its resin prod kicks in..pistil dev slows and calyx's start to slighty swell and this is to me true flower and now we gata adj formula to feed those flowers and not grow the plant..
Next pic pistils die off more and the resins are in full prod and now and since were imposing a P-K formula it will swell and keep frosting up...
Now you notice the plant closer to end of flower is deeper green?...this is cause the bloom nute I was using still had a slight amount of N when the plant didn't need much at all and thus causing ever slight cattailing by end of bloom..but you see I tried to manage it and the result..well it was not bad by far..
so hope that helps and let me know how it sits with ya..keep rollin
FOE20

 

[johnnyrotten]

Actually, you can see all of her pics in the grow in my sig... http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=246621

Here's the last pic I took before she went into flower...
View attachment 195333

She's Romulan 1... I don't want to post all of her pics but she seemed to be doing ok but I don't think she has enough N...

 

[johnnyrotten]

One more thing, her seeds came from a bag of decent weed that we were told were Romulan...it had two seeds in a quarter bag so who knows what it really is.... Those were the first time we'd ever gotten seeds in weed from this guy after two years...

 

[johnnyrotten]

I got a little depressed this morning over the rom...

Is there any way to save her or is it just too late? If its too late, I'll just flush her for a week and chop her... I think she's got enough N to make it, hopefully...

I think I fucked up by giving her big bud too early(starting in 3rd week) following the AN PH Perfect feeding schedule... It's my first grow and I really looked at it as an experiment... I thought it was going pretty good with her until a week ago... Oh well, live and learn...

 

[FOE20]

naa johnny...never get down about a plant...Im sure they dont care heh...They seem to be survivors more than anything else...But on a plant like that it does happen but you will want to mainly use the resins in the end..
Hash it bro...you can avoid the unpleasant profile that a blown out cola/deep residual N can show so best bet when I get those is resin prod and prep them for hash meaning just check resins(go for mostly cloudy/ambers) and push P-K /carb hard...when ya hit about 20%amber and the rest cloudy or clear..hash it...the hash will be just fine bro and prob quite strong as it will be a concentration of the resins avoiding the plant matter all together...
Look at it like this..if ya give in and flush and it just ends up as is but a lil leached...
or push it and use a lil more of the stored N or just max out its resin prod before you chop her by flushin with a heavy P-K load..prob bout a good 500ppms+ man...wont hurt her a bit I bet...
But either way you will get something from her and plus you will know next round how to adjust to get a diff expression is all..
plus really johnny I get about $100/hr to consult on this very type of thing so trust me your doin fine and its really nothing new...Ive seen 100s of gardens with shit that would make a grower laugh, cry and wonder wtf is that?...its all in the game..
Best part is the bit on flowering technique Ive been trying to get you to relate to..you can apply to any strain and bro you sorta already know it now cause its how I talk on it all...
So really you got it made..Just feel out the plants and then go with the feeling ya get from them...don;t follow charts and no#s...and for flowering if you want to under stand a flower time what would you look at then if you never grew it before?...
Its parent lines...When I grow a variety I gata know the parent lines and by doing that I can estimate how to go about workin the plant...
Now I didnt know what you had either but to me I knew it was least a midland-equatorial/subtropical meaning a lil longer/slower flower time...
I only like to get ppl thinkin like this cause in the end we will all grow some damn good herb..and thats what our goals are no matter variety...
well that should do for now and sorry again for the long posts..I do have a gift to gab and I smoke in the afternoon so I get extra gabby...keep it rollin man

btw your veg plant looked tits man...damn healthy and yea you prob went a bit to heavy on overall amount of N or just not enough P-K..If your P-K would of been doubled it may of rocjked the cola up nice for ya..hard to say till you run her thru again using the basic theory we been talkin on..
Far as what a Rom looks like...That dont matter either..A bud is what counts..You can have a Sk x HP and have a plant that grows like a Sk but puts out HP buds...and vice versa..So when most everything we grow is from hybrid lines what happens is expression...So long as you get a solid more standard expression to start than you can judge the quality of the phenom..Till then least ya know what she likes in veg...she really looked great man so I feel ya...I did that same thing to a Hindu not to long ago,,..just relax keep at it...
FOE20

 

[johnnyrotten]

You know what, the pictures that you posted did help, since this is my first time I really had no idea what to expect...your help is very much appreciated...