Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link?

[LumpStatus]

Really glad to hear it works for you greyskull. It really is very effective. And my suggestion to anyone who is still having problems after using this method, try dosing it daily instead of every 3 days it doesn't seem to do any harm to the plants at all.

May I also suggest an alternative to Rockwool for cloning... Jiffy root shooters works fantastic. They are sold under many different brand names but they are all made by Jiffy. Anyways, they are pre moistened with just the right amount of water and if using a humidity dome, they typically do not need to be re moistened until the clones are fully rooted. They also claims no rooting hormone is needed, but I use Clonex anyways.

You know what clone I have the MOST TROUBLE rooting? The damn sour dub! They usually seem to root but they take 3 * longer than anything else and are usually pretty yellow by the time they root.

 

[Greyskull]

ah man really lump?
that shit, when i she was firing for me... 4-5 days in the ez and out in 7-10. one of the first ones to show...

funny we all have our fucking issues we gotta work on/resolve wtf

hey i want to second lump about the adding daily not doing anything negative to my cuttings. not yet that i can tell. and not that foresee either.

even if you arent being slimed i highlly suggest spendng $4 and going to walmart and taking the small extra step of preventative care. especially ESPECIALLY for clone production. the heart and soul of a rocking flower room is not the girls going wild in it but the babies building up next in line for their turn to bloom

 

[LumpStatus]

I think with the dub it has everything to do with my mother....she wasn't the healthiest the few times I've cloned her....but I've yet to run her (successfully) in flower....so I'm really looking forward to it as I hear it is fantastic. Thanks to you for accidentally letting it out! From what I hear that was apes accident actually BUT I am quite happy to have gotten it from him....I'll post up some shots when I get her proper.

 

[Sativa Dragon]

I love threads like this cause I have had middle of the road success

I find that I tend to use the walmart peat pucks and roots solution.
I clean everything with 10% bleach in water including the perilite bedding I put under the pucks and let it offgas for 24 hrs then I adjust the PH of the water I put the peat pucks in and add a few drops of super thrive I never did the super thrive thing, not sure if it makes a diff. Then I put the dome on with the heating pad under it 2 weeks and its done. I find if you mess with it your asking for troub, everytime you lift the dome you are welcoming mold spores in so clean it clone it and 2 weeks collect it.

Peace

 

[Greyskull]

about the dubb...

accidents happen i had my panties in a bunch for a bit but wtf hahahaha
i was catching shit from the guy i got it from and felt like my word to him was broken.
honor is very important to some guys. kinda how entitlement is important to others hahahaha

ape didnt do anything 'wrong'. i must be clear. the guy who hooked up ape, whos still my friend, thought he was doing a greater good. i appreciate my friends intentions but the road to hell is paved with the best of them... i wish he would have kept his word but thats okay the world is still spinning no body lost their house you know. as far as i know well all cool and the gang. if not someone needs to tell me that shit hahahaha
anyways i learned the hard way it was out so then i gave it to ogorganic too and it started making the rounds as po power.....

i hope you are able to coax the 10/10 sourdubb and not get the 5/10 sourdudds

in veg fat wide evenly spaced fan leaves with the bluish tint usually transplates to 10/10

if the fingers are not completely free from each other like kinda overlapped a bit where they start from thats not a sign i like so far it means 5/10 sourdudds are coming...
fyi maybe you see something different idk.

i heard its from being to wet as a clone. i heard its because of a nute overdose. And ph imbalance.

if its the 10 itll blow it all away
if its the 5 itll just blow....

hopefully you get a 10/10 and understand where i am coming from regarding opinions of good pot and shitty weed

 

[Grizz]

I think with the dub it has everything to do with my mother....she wasn't the healthiest the few times I've cloned her....but I've yet to run her (successfully) in flower....so I'm really looking forward to it as I hear it is fantastic. Thanks to you for accidentally letting it out! From what I hear that was apes accident actually BUT I am quite happy to have gotten it from him....I'll post up some shots when I get her proper.

you are correct lump, like GS said when you have a healthy mom she roots real quick, watch for them dudds, also for cloning i found sea weed extract works better than any cloning gel or dip out there, im even getting the king louie og and legend to root in 7 to 10 days, unfuckingbelibable

 

[LumpStatus]

about the dubb...

accidents happen i had my panties in a bunch for a bit but wtf hahahaha
i was catching shit from the guy i got it from and felt like my word to him was broken.
honor is very important to some guys. kinda how entitlement is important to others hahahaha

ape didnt do anything 'wrong'. i must be clear. the guy who hooked up ape, whos still my friend, thought he was doing a greater good. i appreciate my friends intentions but the road to hell is paved with the best of them... i wish he would have kept his word but thats okay the world is still spinning no body lost their house you know. as far as i know well all cool and the gang. if not someone needs to tell me that shit hahahaha
anyways i learned the hard way it was out so then i gave it to ogorganic too and it started making the rounds as po power.....

i hope you are able to coax the 10/10 sourdubb and not get the 5/10 sourdudds

in veg fat wide evenly spaced fan leaves with the bluish tint usually transplates to 10/10

if the fingers are not completely free from each other like kinda overlapped a bit where they start from thats not a sign i like so far it means 5/10 sourdudds are coming...
fyi maybe you see something different idk.

i heard its from being to wet as a clone. i heard its because of a nute overdose. And ph imbalance.

if its the 10 itll blow it all away
if its the 5 itll just blow....

hopefully you get a 10/10 and understand where i am coming from regarding opinions of good pot and shitty weed

I completely understand what you mean. And thanks for the background info on the dubb. I really want to see that 10/10!

I consider ape a good friend of mine and he's only ever had good things to say about you and for pretty much all of the good people down there.

I will update you as my dubb gets bigger so you can give me your opinion on how I do with her! I also got a free pack of sour grapes (bog) that I hope will have something special inside...

Really happy to hear so many folks having success cloning with the pool shock!

 

[LumpStatus]

you are correct lump, like GS said when you have a healthy mom she roots real quick, watch for them dudds, also for cloning i found sea weed extract works better than any cloning gel or dip out there, im even getting the king louie og and legend to root in 7 to 10 days, unfuckingbelibable

Thanks for the tips! I definitely know about duds....every once in a while you get a clone or two that just doesn't look quite right and it turns out to be garbage compared to the others.

 

[Greyskull]

Apes a solid guy
Ballsy
Much respect just for being the vet in the game he is... But hes good peeps to talk to about regular life stuff too hes a quality cat.

 

[Herborizer]

ALRIGHTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

5 days and roots are starting form like a motherfucker.
even where the collar wraps around the cut.... big fat nubs forming.
and no slime. with water temps 79-82!!!!!!!!
i missed successful ez cloning.
THANK YOU FOR THE POOL SHOCK TIP

ive been adding 1oz of shock-mix daily as a preventative and along with the kln & silica blast i should be a clone making machine once again.

I am going to try the shock-mix in my oxyclone 20 also and see if the slime is banished there, too. I hope so..... then i'd have 50 sites of clonation on automatic

hopefully giving me time to learn how to clone in rockwool too hahahahahaha
more clones the better right hahahahaha

I have been away from icmag for the last 7 months. Wow this thread really took off. . I am really glad it's working for you. Chlorine has been a life saver for me. It even works on roses I bring home for the wife. Keeps them longer. .

Another option for people with really bad water is to buy REAL spring water from the store, in the sealed containers. Use this water instead, after 3 days start with the chlorine adding. Roots usually in 3-5 days.

 

[noworries]

do any of you use an ORP meter?

 

[Hammerhead]

I have never seen anyone use ORP probes for growing. These are mainly used in a Reef aquarium setup.

 

[Laughing Jim]

ME TOO!

ME TOO!

If you think cloning is easy and doesn't take any effort at all, and you can't understand why anyone would have any problems. Congratulations, I envy you. This thread is not for you. Please move on.

I know exactly how you feel. Cloning can be one of the most aggravating parts of gardening. For so many people they have such an easy time with cloning. I have read stories over and over about how some people just take a pair of rusty scissors, make a cut, and just stick a cutting in some random medium. Then have roots in a few days. While I am so happy for them, it drives me crazy!

If you are like me and have researched just about every forum, forum thread, article, etc to learn the secret combination that could solve my cloning problem, you will notice some very interesting patterns.

One of those in particular is that there are many people who have been cloning successfully for years and years, and then they move to a new location and can't clone for the life of them.

I have heard many people attribute this to some "mystery of cloning", dumb luck, bad luck, etc. This has never sat well with me because in theory, if all elements are the same, the result should be the same. Which lead me to the belief that there must be a missing link in cloning that is not obvious, and is causing SOME people to fail miserably, and or just take a very long time to get clones to root.

Not by a discovery of my own, but some random thread I found recently, I believe (for some of us, this is not inclusive) that link may have been found. WATER

I know the idea of quality water is not new to cloning. Just about every manual, article, forum post, etc talks about it. Though there is a particular aspect that I have not seen discussed until recently. CHLORINE levels in the WATER. Or calcium hypochlorite/soduim hypochlorite.

Interesting enough, this really isn't a new discovery. Cities, Agricultural Industries, and other businesses have been using CHLORINE for over 200 years as a safe way to sterilize water. So in fact, the very water that you have coming out of your faucet, may contain a low level of CHLORINE. At low levels it is considered safe and used on a very large scale. Even biologists and the agricultural industry believe that plants actually require chlorine (low levels) as a key element and helps them thrive.

So, getting to the point finally, we all live in different places. Each one with different water sources. Some on city water (with varying water treatment techniques) and others with well water. I would safely bet that the mass majority of us are using city water and that city water contains chlorine. Personally, I have well water and not city water.

So recently I experimented with adding calcium hypochlorite (shock chlorine) to my well water for my clones. I also ran clones without any chlorine added. Everything else being the same. Guess what. I got roots in 6 days with the chlorinated clones. It was an ah ha! moment!

So the thread that I read that lead me to this point was written by this person who tried a relatively new product on the market made by EZ-Clone called "Clear-Res". Clear-RES is used by adding 5ml (of clear-res) per gallon of water and re-added every 3 days in the same amount. This product is relatively new, but if you search around you will find that the people who use it have pure success. So anyway, this person checked out the ingredients of Clear-Res and discovered that it was simply Chlorine water in a bottle. 16oz of chlorine water for $20. Two and two together, an experiment was done to discover how much pool chlorine would be needed to reproduce the same strength found in Clear-Res. Using a non-ph buffered pool shock (or pure calcium-hypoclorite) that you can commonly find at most hardware stores and walmart, the formula was discovered.

Here it is:

• Basically, this pool shock comes in powered form.
• 1 gram of this powdered chlorine should be mixed into 1 gallon of water, to make what is almost an exact replacement for a bottle of Clear-Res.
• Then, once you have this bottle of chlorine water, you would use 1 liquid oz per 5 gallons of water. Repeat every 3 days.

So for roughly $4 you can buy this pool shock that will make you roughly 454 gallons of Clear-Res!

$4 for 454 gallons, using this.

View Image

Or $20 for 16oz, using this

View Image


So if you are one of those people like me who has struggled with cloning and has tried everything, I suggest trying this. If you think about it, it makes so much sense. Could it be that many of those lucky bastards out there who never have an issue cloning, also have CHLORINE in their water? I think so.

If you are a Aerocloner guy, this water treatment has other benefits too. If you just use tap water with the chlorine added and nothing else, your Aerocloner will stay sparkling clean forever. Really should be nothing to clean between rounds (though I recommend to always clean thoroughly anyways, but the job will be so easy now). Also, with adding chlorine, you can now ditch that water chiller and all the other things you probably do to reduce temperatures of your aerocloner. In fact, when using chlorine, I bet that the higher the temperature the faster you will get roots. With no risk of getting slime/bacteria.

Here is the steps for what I believe is a sure fire method:

• Clean environment. Keep your garden area VERY clean.
• Sterile tools. I always sterilize my tools and working surface for cloning with alcohol.
• Wash your hands and buy gloves. Always wash your hands thoroughly and buy a box of those gloves used by doctors etc. Cheap. I use them every single time I enter my garden, for any reason.
• Healthy mothers. If your mothers look like hell, cloning is probably not going to go well.
• Use tap water. Distilled and RO don't work as well in my experience and slow down or prevent roots.
• PH your water to 6.3 and keep it there. I still don't know if this step is required, but when you have had as many problems as I have, you don't mess around and do what is considered a standard.
• Use a brand new razor. I buy a 100 pack of razors at the hardware store for like $5. They are cheap. A nice and sharp razor helps prevent crushing the stem when making your cuts.
• As soon as you cut the clone off the mother, put it in a cup of water for at least 5 minutes.
• If you use rooting hormone, never dip the clone in the bottle. If you have done this in the past, throw away that bottle. This simply contaminates the whole bottle. Don't use too much hormone. Simply coat anywhere a cut was made (end and nodes).
• Use the chlorine water formula described above. If using a medium, your medium should be moist and not wet. Really, they don't need much water because you will keep the humidity very high the first 7 days. If using an aerocloner, simply put your tap water into your reservoir and add the chlorine solution in as described above. Re-add the chlorine solution every 3 days.
  
• If aerocloner, humidity shouldn't be a problem. If using a medium, humidity is critical. For the first 48 hours I would seal up your clones in a dome and never open it. You want over 90% RH. After the 2nd day, open the dome for 10 minutes each day. Each day after add 10 minutes (day 3=20 mins, day 4=30 mins, etc).
• Keep temperatures in the low 80's. You don't HAVE todo this, but it will speed up the cloning. In low temps it could take weeks, where if you were in the low 80's it could take days. Don't forget, the chlorine is going to keep the nastiness from growing.
• Take larger clones, but only leave 1-2 sets up top. I also don't cut the leaves in half. I have heard this slows things down, but I am not sure. Still need further testing.
• Don't spray anything on the plants. To keep humidity up, spray the dome. Also, I have been putting a little pool of water in the tray (with the chlorine added). This helps keep temps stable and keeps the humidity high.
• Use VERY low light. This is really important. The plants need to root and not grow sets. A single 27w (2 foot) T5 located about 16inches above your clones is perfect. If you must use stronger light, put a paper towel on top of your humidity dome. Really, they don't need much light.
• No nutes, no additives, no snake oil. Just water and chlorine that is PH'ed. If things work out right, you will have roots in 6-10 days. Does it need to go faster than that?
  

Once you see a decent amount of roots, move forward with whatever nutes and additives you desire. This thread is about getting to the point of roots and not beyond that. Once the roots show, additives can speed up the growing of those roots. Wait until you have roots, trust me!


Good luck and if you try this please post back to this thread. This is very much a work in progress and we can work together to refine it.

P.S. If you are using an aerocloner, make sure you clean your aerocloner very very well between uses. Never let your cloner get dirty. Never let water just sit in it. After cleaning it, and if its not going into immediate re-use, dry it completely. Inside the manifold and pump especially.

[bold]One of those in particular is that there are many people who have been cloning successfully for years and years, and then they move to a new location and can't clone for the life of them.[/bold]

I had the same problem. Moved from Michigan to Ohio 14 months ago and I have had NO cloning success until this month. To my cloner (a Turbo Kloner) I started adding 20 ml per gallon of Dynagrow KLN and Protekt, I recut my cutd underwater, then dipped the cuttings first in Dip N Grow and then in Rootech Cloning Gel. Might sound like overkill, but it's working and I'm a happy boy!

Herborizer, great t5hread...thank you!

 

[Hammerhead]

I just bought a cloner. im giving it its first try with just 2 cuts in tap water. I did not use any gels or powders. I did not see the point cloners will wash that stuff off as soon as its put into the system. Gels/powders rooting hormones work well in rockwool,RR,Soil any medium that keeps the stuff on the cutting. I did a test. 1 put 2 cuttings in Rapid Rooters with gel then dipped into powder. I placed these into soaked RR with tap water. The other 2 cuts where put into my cloner with tap water according to the directions tap water is all thats needed.

 

[Iffy]

Fantastic thread Herborizer,
I am one of those who struggle with cloning. I take 25 - 30 cuttings with the hope of getting 14 to root & grow on with mixed results thus far.
I am definately going to try the chlorine & tap water.
I will know immediately if there is a improvement & I will post my results.
Once again thank you.
Stay safe

 

[noworries]

I got an orp meter because I was trying to get a repeatable process.... All the studies claim 780mv at 6ph (should be .5 ppm free chlorine) is all that's needed to not get pythium.

It obviously is true. Im confident I could have temps go as high as you want them and you'd never get soggy stems. Unfortunately non soggy stems without root bumps are useless to me.

Apparently the 780 mc reading is too strong for the little roots to form or continue growing. I took a clone that just started rooting in a cup of coco, has 2-5 mm roots, thick...white...gorgeous, and put it in the cloner with 780mv reading and all progress halted and the thick white roots started browning and what looked to be getting ate away...burned off etc.

The ppm of the water was 150, that's tap plus bleach to reach .5 ppm chlorone.

I decided to use physan 20 instead of keeping a 780mv orp reading. I emailed the producers of physan 20, told them how I was using it, they said 5ml per 15 gallons for use in a recirculating res. After 9 days no improvement.

Now im back to the orp Meter keeping it around 400-ish. This is roughly what I found when using the exact directions from the clear rez bottle. At 780 it smells STRONGLY of bleach when you open the rez, nose burning strong. At 400 you dont really smell it...

Im really starting to hate this machine. It worked so well the first 3 runs then took a dump. I built a new manifold and all new misters 3 days ago... Close to giving up

 

[the gnome]

i find a 50-50 mix of perlite and verm gives me the best success rate of anything.
and you can keep em in that medium with fertz/water for a few months till you need em.

 

[Iffy]

Hi folks,
Just read a fascinating post by SeaMaiden about aspirin:

Native Americans and early settlers used willow bark for toothaches and applied it to the source of other pains. But they also recognized that you can actually grow a whole new tree by taking a stem and sticking it in moist soil. The hormones in willows cause rapid rooting, and they discovered these same hormones could induce rooting in other plants, too. To harness this power, they made a tonic called “willow water” by collecting willow twigs, trimming the leaves, immersing the stems in a pail of water, and pouring the water on newly planted trees, shrubs, and bedding plants.
Commercial rooting preparations contain a synthetic form of indolebutyric acid (IBA) and growing tips of willows contain high concentrations of IBA, depending on the quantity used and length of time you soak them. Any willow (Salix) tree or shrub species will work.

To use commercial aspirin, a solution of 500mg to 1 gal is recommended.
Anyone use this for their cuttings?

Here's the link: http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/life_sciences/report-27302.html

 

[Trykhome]

Roots Excel H&G

Roots Excel H&G

this just happened to me and i fucked myself pretty hard.

key is back to basics....

if you have a e z cloner all you need to do is bleach it, run water through it, buy a water temp guage and keep between 78-82 degress, and add roots exculurator.... yourll go back to 100%

if you dont have one rock wool with e z clone gel and a dome and a heat pad always worked in a pinch....

sorry that was very long didnt read it all...


but tap water with chlorine helps... i noticed a HUGE change going from city water chlorinated to well water ro... deff not as good.

Not to be rude but if you add tap to Roots (H&G) you are killing it. No way around R/O & Calmag with it.

 

[Trykhome]

you are correct lump, like GS said when you have a healthy mom she roots real quick, watch for them dudds, also for cloning i found sea weed extract works better than any cloning gel or dip out there, im even getting the king louie og and legend to root in 7 to 10 days, unfuckingbelibable

Primordial solutions Sea green is pimpity pimp!