Electric? Digital? are they the same?!

[gingerale]

^ I haven't measured (only have one magnetic which is a backup) but I am quite certain there is a decrease. I'm running 2400 watts (two 1K Lumateks on "super lumens" mode) on a single 120V 20 amp circuit if that tells you anything.

 

[rives]

By selecting a quality brand in the first place, that worry is eliminated. A good digital can be expected to last as long as or longer than a magnetic, with NO replacing capacitors, etc.

Magnetic ballasts hum, they're slow to start, they can't be dimmed, they use more power, and they screw up the power factor. The slightly increased initial cost for a quality digital over a magnetic is totally worth it, because it's a fixed cost that will recoup itself in no time, vs the magnetic which will cost more (higher power usage) throughout its life. When you do the math, it's a no-brainer: get a digital unless you are on a shoestring budget and absolutely can't afford it. For larger grows, digital all the way.

Almost everything that you've stated is true to a degree, but some of it is substantially overstated. I don't agree that a "good" digital can be expected to last as long as magnetics - I've worked in an industrial plant where the lighting was 30+ year old 400w HPS, with literally hundreds of fixtures, and the failure rate was almost non-existent. I have serious doubts that digital ballasts could approach that level of reliability. Yes, they use more power - about the equivalent of a couple of night lights worth. The impact on the power factor is a non-issue - most commercial and all residential metering isn't equipped to measure the impact. The biggest downfall that I see to the digitals is that they aren't compatible with a lot of lamps because of the high frequency.

I think that either can be a good choice, it's all in what you want. Pay your money and take your choice.

 

[cody2white]

You can get a new 1k mag ballast 120/240v off ebay for 120$ to your door.

 

[yerboyblue]

^ I haven't measured (only have one magnetic which is a backup) but I am quite certain there is a decrease. I'm running 2400 watts (two 1K Lumateks on "super lumens" mode) on a single 120V 20 amp circuit if that tells you anything.

Thanks for the reply, I was just wondering if you noticed a decrease in your power bill, but with that few of lights, It would be hard to say.

 

[TheNewGuy2012]

IMO... Everyone has their brands they like... i prefer the phantom ballasts myself, 2 years and it hasn't skipped a beat yet. I know 4 other people who've bought them or used them in their personal grow room or at work in a dispensary; and they have all been happy so far as well. Really though... with ANYTHING mass produced.... you will get your occasional defective item, but that is less likely when you Quality Control is in check like the bigger brand names.

just get something with a warranty. like previously stated, bigger name brands are better built and will last longer than an ebay cheap-O. plus, if it does break, think about how quickly you can get a replacement in there after all warranty business is said and done. i personally wouldn't buy anything outside of quantum, lumatek, galaxy, nexgen, or phantom... but again, that's all preference.

 

[Easygrowing]

i'm sorry but i still don't get it...so basically electric and digital are the same but digitals have a programmed chip that controls the features (meaning soft starts and sensing old bulbs and junk, variable wattages), and the electronic ballasts use electric components to achieve some limited features(like a basic soft start and the ability to change from hps to mh)? is that about right? the power coming from them is achieved through the same means, but the ability to replace almost all of the electronic components with a single chip that can do infinitely more gives you more space to work with and more room to program fancy high end features?

but say i didn't want any fancy features, i just wanted something that a plug goes in, and a plug goes out, it runs both main bulbs and has a soft start...basically bare bones right...in theory if you found a cheep digital that only have those two features...and a cheep electronic with those two features...the power that they produce and consume is the same between the two right? the only difference is one has a few features controlled by big physical electric components and the newer digital has a few features controlled by a small chip, that in theory has all those little components of the electronic, just shrunk down as a chip?

i guess what i am trying to ask is, as far as the light is concerned they are the same, the only differences is in how the special features are run? the basic meat of both of them are the same right? and the waves they create are those square shaped ones and not the wavy ones? ug i'm so confused and i'm certain they do that on purpose...

Dear Senorsloth ! : ) those also had keeped me awaked in nights-are it the same or ? and-yes it,s is-wikipedia says it it and also why-but please,dont try for understanding-just translate it to UK and see explanation-about sense-curves-and there is still analog in it-so easy to understand,for normal ppl..2 pics at right site-tells more. try see
http://translate.googleusercontent....ronics&usg=ALkJrhi8Vs9XVgMyRfj1cVEupSEqY0vaZw
And mine says yes and no,if fail on timer,or bulp-and no had wroted Digi on it-but without and micro ,it cant-so-it,s is the same,,have also readed another place-if you doing many ballasts on same timer,you can have more switch on,at same time,,only using 2.1-2.5 AMP for start up and constantly running-Mag-dubbelt--can prove it-if you dont belive..just read on specifations..just keep an mag in the other hand,as back up.
Think you will be happy for it-
Sorry . )

 

[señorsloth]

i dunno i guess just because most vhs players worked doesn't mean i'm still in my bedroom watching season two of alf or something...i mean just because a newer better technology is out doesn't mean you HAVE to change, but they usually try to make it worth your while...i guess frankly i see myself as the guy that likes to have nicer things, i mean i don't need a huge 5000 dollar tv and blue ray and junk...but your definitely not going to see me watching vhs off an old tv with the huge back part...like 20 years after they became out of date...i mean i guess there is a reason we aren't amish...sure nowadays most things are designed to fail and made cheep ash shit compared to a couple decades ago even but we can't stop that...frankly i guess i would rather be the guy watching dvd's...he knows he can get blueray for a lot more but doesn't think the price increase is worth it, and he knows he can get vhs for dirt cheep but he isn't going to live in the dark ages to save a few bucks, even if vhs can still be watchable...i guess i see generic electric ballasts as dvd's in this scenario...sure i could step up to a high end one with a thousand features and a remote with a good warranty to boot...but i can still get a 2 year warranty on generic electrics and they cost almost nothing compared to what they produce, and cost about the same as the old mags...ya even though the mags may work i'm not willing to live in the 90's when theres newer, slightly more efficient technology out there for the same price with an actual warranty...

i mean seriously...if your growing 5k or more, are you really going to want to waste your time "rebuilding" a 100$ mag ballast? i mean if you are bringing in more than a pound a week, i can't imagine you wanting to waste your valuable time replacing things...all to save an amount of money you probably make in 20 minutes growing at a large scale...personally i think i would just rather return it for a new one, even at my small scale, but if your running a hundred lights i don't think skimping every last penny is a great business model...i thought they would be worth it until i realized mine was not magnetic...if my super cheep generic electric can run this well for this many years, and at this cheep...well thats all that could ask for...i mean it's cheep, generic, and has a 2 year warranty, and it uses some of the most recent technology...what more could you want?

 

[junior_grower]

the botany lab has 100 + mag ballasts all still in use and guess what we just ordered 100 new ones to replace the old. The new mags run 3.5% higher power usage than a digital. Do the math 153 Kw a year @ .14 cents/KW 21 bucks more to run. Over the 10 year lifespan it would be 210$ more to run than a digital. The next thin is the fact digis last ~5years mags run 10+, so considering that the cost to own and operate mags is cheaper.



Rebuilding means checking components and changing an igniter or capacitor, if necessary. caps have a lifespan ~10 YEARS, AND igniters ~5-10.

 

[Easygrowing]

How can they spend 3.5 % Higher,then-they newer cames just near by 4 AMP -max is 2.5
somethings dosent keeps 2gether..will find docu about those-lol..it,s an 400 w im talking about..Mag spends 4 AMP for ignition and constantly,then running-Digi-2.1-2.5 AMP...they newer loosing theirs engery-Mags does-through the year.the coil getting airions-because it,s made of copper..will find those "docu"--can see-differents speci,than on my ballast,but not from same brand..My mag also have differents specifications-than they says..Here what some says-hm-TEST
Alle test blev udført ved hjælp af en Philiphs son-T 600 W (HPS) lampe og et digitalt lys målings enhed distanceret 1m fra lampen

Digital Ballast 400W lumatek NXE:
Start ampere 1.2
Kørsel ampere 1.75
Kørsel Effekt 418w
Lumen Output 2600 lumen på 1m fra lampen

Normal Core og Coil 400 W Ballast:
Start ampere 2.5
Kørsel ampere 1.95
Kørsel Effekt 430w
Lumen Output 1400 lumen på 1m fra lampen

Digital Ballast 600W lumatek NXE:
Start ampere 1.8
Kørsel ampere 2,75
Kørsel Effekt 620 - 630w
Lumen Output 2900 lumen på 1m fra lampen

Normal Core og Coil 600 W Ballast:
Start ampere 4.9
Kørsel ampere 3.3
Kørsel Effekt 708 - 750w
Lumen Output 2600 lumen på 1m fra lampen

Alle tal kan variere en smule afhængig af spændingen (Volt) denne test blev udført med en spænding på ca 230V
It,s on Danish,but dosent matter-the nubmers speak,s for them self..But best would be-set in between plugs,an woltagemeter and see by own eyes..also knows,they wanna selling us their produts.If i have a greenhouse,i would also buy home Mag,because it,s cheaper,for buy home and repair-agree--some gives up to 3 years warrent-but yes-if company is still opened..some even up to 5 ..it,s a bit like "war" between-Nikon/Canon mabye.But if you dont try new things,you newer finding out,are they better or ?
Just buyed it,for have an extra and the Mag was so hot,i was afraid for use it,could not touch it at all and lots of bruuummm.The elec dosent make heat at all,same temp at cower,like then it,s off..and it,s full of dust,soil-has to open it,for see-how much or little,are there in those ..mabye there is not so much,for save...hmm..sorry bad gramma-did the best i could and only interest into,are they better and are they saving money or what.An electronic powermeter,is the answer..

 

[rives]

Easygrowing - your 400w example shows a gross wattage for the digital at 418 watts, and for the magnetic it is 430 watts. This is less than a 3% difference. Starting current is of little importance since it only occurs for a few moments, typically once a day. It is very interesting that in the case of the 400w lamp, the digital supposedly puts out nearly double the lumens, yet the 600w lamps only have an 11% difference. I think that your data is flawed.

 

[gingerale]

Rives, do you think you could successfully run two 1kW plus a 400 watt magnetic ballast all on the same 20 amp, 120V circuit? That's how many watts I am putting out with my two Lumatek ballasts at 1200W each (Super Lumens mode) both running on the same circuit.

 

[junior_grower]

Rives, do you think you could successfully run two 1kW plus a 400 watt magnetic ballast all on the same 20 amp, 120V circuit? That's how many watts I am putting out with my two Lumatek ballasts at 1200W each (Super Lumens mode) both running on the same circuit.

if those ballasts are in fact running at 1200W each (2400/120=20 amps) very dangerous to run at 100% duty. I would guess there not putting out 1200w each.

 

[rives]

Rives, do you think you could successfully run two 1kW plus a 400 watt magnetic ballast all on the same 20 amp, 120V circuit? That's how many watts I am putting out with my two Lumatek ballasts at 1200W each (Super Lumens mode) both running on the same circuit.

if those ballasts are in fact running at 1200W each (2400/120=20 amps) very dangerous to run at 100% duty. I would guess there not putting out 1200w each.

As JG said, that would put you at 100% of the breaker rating without the 400w added and no allowance for any ballast losses. By code, you shouldn't exceed 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads, which are defined as anything in excess of 3 hours. You may not be getting the advertised wattage out of the ballasts, your breaker may be out of spec, or both. It can take a long, long time for a breaker to trip on a marginal overload - the problem is that the circuit may trip when you least want it to.

*edit* In case you don't know it, Amps x volts = watts, so watts/volts = amps. This formula can help you jump back and forth between equipment wattage and the circuit amperage.

 

[Easygrowing]

hm rives ! : ) i read JG;S information wrong-He actually wrotes-Mag spending 3.5 % more-i read it wrong-SORRY ! The information,is from an homesite and i know,they get their information,from the factory..so dont trust them blindly..will look after an woltagemeter for test self..But out from those numbers-digi still should spend w lesser for every hour..
it,s the numbers-418 and 430-but only 12 w saved then..for each hour..thats not much.if true..
Thanks anyways...