Vic Hammer
Member
Ok. So what would you have him do? Sure it's high but that plant is stressed. He can lower it of course as the plant recovers. You have 1000w LED? What would you suggest?
Canna Coir problems - newbie
- Thread starter JeremyP99
- Start date
Ok. So what would you have him do? Sure it's high but that plant is stressed. He can lower it of course as the plant recovers. You have 1000w LED? What would you suggest?
D
dramamine
Water to a small amount of runoff. If you have lots of lime in your water, like you said, don't use it. Rainwater is great....once you get your meter, you may want to use a percentage of tap mixed with rainwater. If I could use all rainwater, I certainly would. As far as feeding strength, rather than trying to figure out whose advice to follow, maybe just start increasing it gradually and steadily. You will see results as you go. You can get away with waiting for the coco to dry, like someone above suggested, but you will maintain more constant, complete nutrients in the rootzone with daily waterings. In coco, it's not about giving water, per se, it's about replenishing the nutes.
The fact is that the more often you feed in coco, the more and faster growth you will see. Read about dripper systems that feed four or five times a day. They give amazing growth rates. Yes, you can wait for the coco to dry, like you would with soil. But you will never see the growth or health that you would with constant feeding. Remember that it's not like soil at all. You aren't accumulating nutes in the pot, you are replacing them. The feed is the flush.
The fact is that the more often you feed in coco, the more and faster growth you will see. Read about dripper systems that feed four or five times a day. They give amazing growth rates. Yes, you can wait for the coco to dry, like you would with soil. But you will never see the growth or health that you would with constant feeding. Remember that it's not like soil at all. You aren't accumulating nutes in the pot, you are replacing them. The feed is the flush.
T
TribalSeeds
Dang, I used cannazym at 1/4 strength and it ate the roots hanging out of the pot in 2 days. I didn't realize it was 10ml/g
Vic Hammer
Member
Agreed, once you have roots. He needs a root system first and he is not going to get that without drying the coco some. He has got to get some drying going to get the roots growing. If not he is going to continue to drown that little plant.
I do all my cloning in coco and the cups don't require water for close to 3 weeks. Even once the roots begin to show, I use clear cups, it takes days before they need to be fed. And once they are it takes days again. No media needs to be saturated constantly when there are no roots to feed from it.
D
dramamine
That plant is a month old. Why do you say there are no roots? There should certainly be sufficient roots to take up nutrients at this point....which would lead to even more roots. When you say "it takes days before they need to be fed", what is your criteria for knowing when to feed? Coco is hydro. Hydro means constantly supplying a steady amount of nutes. Coco always needs to be fed. Waiting for the pot to dry out is a holdover from soil growing. You can do it, but that doesn't mean you should. Try feeding a newly rooted clone daily, or several times a day.....you might be very surprised to see what happens. Coco holds more than enough air to allow this frequent watering. You don't have to believe me...just check out some of the many auto drip/coco grows.
I sure agree about leaving a clone alone until it roots, but once roots pop out...it's on. Holding back after that is just wasting time.
I don't understand your assumption that the problem is overwatering when it's been established that the plant wasn't being fed two out of three days, but was being flushed with plain water instead. It's very clear that this was/is robbing the plant of the steady nutrients it needs. Occam's Razor=the most obvious solution is usually the correct one.
Vic Hammer
Member
JeremyP99 - how did the root growth look?
Maybe I'm wrong to assume the root growth is minimal.
dramamine, even though the plant is one month old Jeremy just potted down, that is why I assume minimal roots. Not NO roots, minimal.
I am speaking from experience and my criteria for knowing when to feed is experience. Which I am trying to relay to Jeremy when I speak of weight of container and so forth. I don't need to read coco grows I use and have used it with great success.
It is hydro, but it is a hydro media. It saturates, reaches what in rockwool is called 'field capacity'. Therefore rules of establishing roots in media must be followed. That includes some drying. With a small plant, continually saturated media is not conducive to maximum root growth. For example, I use Bcuzz coco. Straight it holds 70% water and 30% is then air. I believe that is too wet for young plants without well established root systems. And by well established I mean filling their first container. Jeremy's plant does not meet this criteria, yet. And it surely will and can. He just needs to get this container filling with roots.
Anyway, not here to argue, just trying to help Jeremy get going. My advice stands. And it is good.
Roots, roots, and more roots. Feedings and media moisture levels building with the rootzone and then the plant will follow with the roots established to feed it.
Good luck and happy growing.
Maybe I'm wrong to assume the root growth is minimal.
dramamine, even though the plant is one month old Jeremy just potted down, that is why I assume minimal roots. Not NO roots, minimal.
I am speaking from experience and my criteria for knowing when to feed is experience. Which I am trying to relay to Jeremy when I speak of weight of container and so forth. I don't need to read coco grows I use and have used it with great success.
It is hydro, but it is a hydro media. It saturates, reaches what in rockwool is called 'field capacity'. Therefore rules of establishing roots in media must be followed. That includes some drying. With a small plant, continually saturated media is not conducive to maximum root growth. For example, I use Bcuzz coco. Straight it holds 70% water and 30% is then air. I believe that is too wet for young plants without well established root systems. And by well established I mean filling their first container. Jeremy's plant does not meet this criteria, yet. And it surely will and can. He just needs to get this container filling with roots.
Anyway, not here to argue, just trying to help Jeremy get going. My advice stands. And it is good.
Roots, roots, and more roots. Feedings and media moisture levels building with the rootzone and then the plant will follow with the roots established to feed it.
Good luck and happy growing.
hey man
i know you are getting all kinds of info from all kinds of sources some of it contradictory hahaha typical
but i wanted to chime in a bit and see if anything i can add helps....
are you letting the pot dry out a bit before hitting it with food again?
reason i ask is plants in coco do better in veg when the medium gets a chance to dry out some.ime
ive grown in coco fro a few years now done ebb n flow top feed who cares its all the same.
how "full"is the container of roots? i see youve bumped the container down (good move! you can get away with small pots in coco and get bigger results if that makes sense)
if you can poke your finger into the coco and it goes deep, youre not getting the good root growth yet. when you cannot get the finger into the coco thats because your roots are exploding and you are getting it close to rootbound.
personally, i like to push my plant to the point of almost rootbound to get the best growth out of coco. ime. feed them @ 30/50% label strength til you get some runoff and leave them until the top of the coco gets dry. then do it again. and so on and so forth.
another thing to think about in regards to your slow growth is... the genetics and the fact that your growing seedlings right now. not all seedlings are gonna be fast growers - some are slow.
seedlings arent as "tough" as established plants so you may be feeding them way way way too much too. something to keep in mind.
ph 6.0 is golden. you got a meter, get the gh testd rops too... it only takes $5 for the bottle and 20sec for double checking but better to measure twice than have to figure out where you fucked up....
anyways, i hope i dont contribute to yo killing anything... i hate when that happens....
good luck
aloha
i know you are getting all kinds of info from all kinds of sources some of it contradictory hahaha typical
but i wanted to chime in a bit and see if anything i can add helps....
are you letting the pot dry out a bit before hitting it with food again?
reason i ask is plants in coco do better in veg when the medium gets a chance to dry out some.ime
ive grown in coco fro a few years now done ebb n flow top feed who cares its all the same.
how "full"is the container of roots? i see youve bumped the container down (good move! you can get away with small pots in coco and get bigger results if that makes sense)
if you can poke your finger into the coco and it goes deep, youre not getting the good root growth yet. when you cannot get the finger into the coco thats because your roots are exploding and you are getting it close to rootbound.
personally, i like to push my plant to the point of almost rootbound to get the best growth out of coco. ime. feed them @ 30/50% label strength til you get some runoff and leave them until the top of the coco gets dry. then do it again. and so on and so forth.
another thing to think about in regards to your slow growth is... the genetics and the fact that your growing seedlings right now. not all seedlings are gonna be fast growers - some are slow.
seedlings arent as "tough" as established plants so you may be feeding them way way way too much too. something to keep in mind.
ph 6.0 is golden. you got a meter, get the gh testd rops too... it only takes $5 for the bottle and 20sec for double checking but better to measure twice than have to figure out where you fucked up....
anyways, i hope i dont contribute to yo killing anything... i hate when that happens....
good luck
aloha
No that's cool, it's all grist to the mill - and suggests that, while you clearly have got to pay a lot more attention using Coir to soil, there's still enough slack for success with differing approaches. Keep it simple is what I need to do until I have a routine that works, and then I can take it from there and sophisticate when appropriate. As I noted earlier, I'm not in a rush, so am treating this as a learning process with hopefully some spin-offs at the end
GH test drops as here?
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/catalog/jbl-test-set-p-3157.html
Cheers,
JP
couldnt get the picture in time im out the door
but heres a link to what i was specifically talking about
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-pH-Test...ultDomain_0&hash=item46002a983f#ht_2231wt_905
fill the little cup 1/2 way add 3-4 drops shake and look - yellow = golden = 6.0 = feed
good luck
you got the right idea
but heres a link to what i was specifically talking about
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-pH-Test...ultDomain_0&hash=item46002a983f#ht_2231wt_905
fill the little cup 1/2 way add 3-4 drops shake and look - yellow = golden = 6.0 = feed
good luck
you got the right idea
Gotcha. eBay UK has this - http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/catalog/jbl-test-set-p-3157.html - just ordered.
Tx
JP
Update.
The coir was quite moist when I transplanted the wee plant three days back. With that in mind, I left it to dry out. Today the plant is looking much better. Small, but then I haven't fed it. One thing at a time, I thought - or two, really - transplant it and let it settle and dry.
I've prepared a half dosage <3wks Canna feed. A + B, Rhizotonic & Cannazyne feed in half a litre of tap water that has stood for 48 hours.
Instructions say to let it stand for a few hours, so I plan to water the plant tomorrow morning. Mixed in a tiny amount of PH Down, and litmus says I'm around 6, maybe high 5. PH/EC meter dispatched from the Land of the Free yesterday. Should have that in a week or so, I guess
A question on feed. Can I mix up a big dose in advance - how long can it stand without any form of loss occurring?
I've got a digital thermometer and hygrometer. Temp sitting around 26.5; only put it in place today (previously I was using a cheap min/max). Humidity is clocking in at 39% - I recall Vic said it should be around 70%. How do I up that and maintain it? Regular atmospheric spraying? Or...
Think that's it for the mo.
The coir was quite moist when I transplanted the wee plant three days back. With that in mind, I left it to dry out. Today the plant is looking much better. Small, but then I haven't fed it. One thing at a time, I thought - or two, really - transplant it and let it settle and dry.
I've prepared a half dosage <3wks Canna feed. A + B, Rhizotonic & Cannazyne feed in half a litre of tap water that has stood for 48 hours.
Instructions say to let it stand for a few hours, so I plan to water the plant tomorrow morning. Mixed in a tiny amount of PH Down, and litmus says I'm around 6, maybe high 5. PH/EC meter dispatched from the Land of the Free
yesterday. Should have that in a week or so, I guessA question on feed. Can I mix up a big dose in advance - how long can it stand without any form of loss occurring?
I've got a digital thermometer and hygrometer. Temp sitting around 26.5; only put it in place today (previously I was using a cheap min/max). Humidity is clocking in at 39% - I recall Vic said it should be around 70%. How do I up that and maintain it? Regular atmospheric spraying? Or...
Think that's it for the mo.
G
Guest 263194
mix your water 50/50 tap RO
a little airpump with an airstone will keep things mixed up
how long do you think the batch of nutes your made is gonna last/how loong doyou need to keep it 'fresh'?
"how long do you think the batch of nutes your made is gonna last/how loong doyou need to keep it 'fresh'?"
You tell me! I've only mixed up half a litre, as the plant is in a small pot. It's no big deal for me to mix the feed on a daily basis - was just wondering whether it was OK to, say, mix up a week's supply of water + nutes, or if the mixture would degrade.
When you say - an airpump with an airstone, I'm not clear how that would work. I'm just mixing into a jug at the moment. Would that be for some sort of feed tank - I'm not in a position to go hydroponic, as we haven't the space or the cash needed. I have start simple, with everything pretty much stand-alone.
RO is I see, Reverse Osmosis. Struggling to find a portable system for sale in the UK - they all seem to have to be plumbed into the water supply, and cost a fair whack. Is RO a must have? Would distilled do - I could do that myself, I guess.
Cheers
JP
You tell me! I've only mixed up half a litre, as the plant is in a small pot. It's no big deal for me to mix the feed on a daily basis - was just wondering whether it was OK to, say, mix up a week's supply of water + nutes, or if the mixture would degrade.
When you say - an airpump with an airstone, I'm not clear how that would work. I'm just mixing into a jug at the moment. Would that be for some sort of feed tank - I'm not in a position to go hydroponic, as we haven't the space or the cash needed. I have start simple, with everything pretty much stand-alone.
RO is I see, Reverse Osmosis. Struggling to find a portable system for sale in the UK - they all seem to have to be plumbed into the water supply, and cost a fair whack. Is RO a must have? Would distilled do - I could do that myself, I guess.
Cheers
JP
Canna Coir problems - newbie
Haha
Ok
Ive mixed nute batches by the gallon in a pitcher and kept it over the course of a week. Without anything extra done. Just stirr really well before feeding. And check ph too haha
The airpump/airstone thing... The airstone sits in nutes. As the airpump is pumping in air the stone will bubble... Its oxygenating the nute solution. It will keep it 'fresher' longer so to speak by delivering fresh O2 constantly.
Some folks think standard pumps alone (no stones needed) are better as circulators keeping things mixed up as well as getting some O2 by the breaking of the surface from the circulation.
Amyways.. Glad things seem to be improving
Haha
Ok
Ive mixed nute batches by the gallon in a pitcher and kept it over the course of a week. Without anything extra done. Just stirr really well before feeding. And check ph too haha
The airpump/airstone thing... The airstone sits in nutes. As the airpump is pumping in air the stone will bubble... Its oxygenating the nute solution. It will keep it 'fresher' longer so to speak by delivering fresh O2 constantly.
Some folks think standard pumps alone (no stones needed) are better as circulators keeping things mixed up as well as getting some O2 by the breaking of the surface from the circulation.
Amyways.. Glad things seem to be improving
A week. That's cool. Makes life a little easier. Would an airpump + airstone(assume it would be a small standalone device that just has an outlet you pop in the bucket?) make that much difference - at the moment, anyway. I'm trying to establish a solid MO for growing in Coir first of all - with a nice bonus at the end!
Many thanks - am deffo getting there. Any thoughts on RO?
Many thanks - am deffo getting there. Any thoughts on RO?
Canna Coir problems - newbie
For such a small amount of nutes i think an air pump/stone/circ pump is really not needed. Could be nice sure...
When you start doing 2-3g batches that need to last 3,4,5 fays thens when youll need the pump action
Imo anyways
For such a small amount of nutes i think an air pump/stone/circ pump is really not needed. Could be nice sure...
When you start doing 2-3g batches that need to last 3,4,5 fays thens when youll need the pump action
Imo anyways
:Yes - keep it as simple as possible is my watchword for the mo. But this is all grist to the mill - lots of people with differing suggestions - but clearly, if they work, there is substance in them. I have to find what works for me. It's quite fun having a home chemistry kit again
