Canna Coir problems - newbie
- Thread starter JeremyP99
- Start date
Theres alot of salt in coco & it retains salts & nutes easily so if you let it sit in the runoff nutrients it will build up in the coco to an undesirable level .
as far as meters go ... i have an EC meter but you don't really need one unless you have problems & need to check things in your coco . but a PH meter or at least a liquid PH test kit is neccesary .
to check the coco as far as PH & EC ... you can't just check the runoff ... it won't give you an accurite reading . you have to do a slurry test ... which is scooping out a cupfull of coco & mixing it with RO water (0 ppm = 0 EC ) mixing it good & letting that sit for an hour then testing the runoff from that cup to get an accurite reading of whats going on in the coco .
as far as meters go ... i have an EC meter but you don't really need one unless you have problems & need to check things in your coco . but a PH meter or at least a liquid PH test kit is neccesary .
to check the coco as far as PH & EC ... you can't just check the runoff ... it won't give you an accurite reading . you have to do a slurry test ... which is scooping out a cupfull of coco & mixing it with RO water (0 ppm = 0 EC ) mixing it good & letting that sit for an hour then testing the runoff from that cup to get an accurite reading of whats going on in the coco .
The canna line of nutrients are good but i wouldn't use @ full strength . i'd use it @ 75% strength ... about 3/4 of what they recommend . you could run nothing but A & B & maybe some calmag depending on your water source & have a great harvest . the one thing in their line i really love is the rhizo ... that shit makes roots like nothing i've ever seen 
i use it no matter what nutes i'm using .
I'll give you a good read about coco & the canna line , this guy helped me tremendously when i got into coco . you don't need to follow his formula or his way of doing things ... but he explains in detail about the cations & what coco needs to be a great medium for growing MJ .
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=218226
i use it no matter what nutes i'm using .I'll give you a good read about coco & the canna line , this guy helped me tremendously when i got into coco . you don't need to follow his formula or his way of doing things ... but he explains in detail about the cations & what coco needs to be a great medium for growing MJ .
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=218226
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Folks - many thanks, many really useful posts. I've ordered a Hanna PH & EC meter as it was cheaper than two separate devices. I want to get this right, even if it takes a while. Current house means we can only grow a plant at a time, so it's just for us, but we have thoughts to move to Ireland (you would NOT believe how cheap property is in the South - this is what we really want if we can raise the cash - http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=532972 - and we could, so to speak, grow our pension there. Polytunnel already in place!
Again - many thanks, so many useful answers from so many of you. I'll keep you posted, and feel free to add any further suggestions/MOs.
JP
(Frome, Somerset)
Again - many thanks, so many useful answers from so many of you. I'll keep you posted, and feel free to add any further suggestions/MOs.
JP
(Frome, Somerset)
D
dramamine
My advice to you would be to start feeding your plant every day. You will see it green up and your growth rates will increase exponentially. Ph is very important, but the leaf symptoms and lagging growth are almost surely due to lack of nutrients, rather than too much.... Using plain water is a big no-no with coco, unless the plant is finishing up.
That Canna schedule is based on daily feedings, as are all coco feeding schedules. I find that a lot of peeps fear of salt buildup can cause them to underfeed their plants....I've fallen into it myself before. Yet, with runoff every day or every other day, it's pretty difficult to get salt buildups as long as you don't use too rich a mix...... As it stands, you are starving your plant 2 out of 3 days. Hydro means nutrients must be constantly supplied, as the medium (in this case, coco) supplies no nutrition. If you insist on the water flushes, you should really follow them immediately with a feeding to replenish the nutes.
That Canna schedule is based on daily feedings, as are all coco feeding schedules. I find that a lot of peeps fear of salt buildup can cause them to underfeed their plants....I've fallen into it myself before. Yet, with runoff every day or every other day, it's pretty difficult to get salt buildups as long as you don't use too rich a mix...... As it stands, you are starving your plant 2 out of 3 days. Hydro means nutrients must be constantly supplied, as the medium (in this case, coco) supplies no nutrition. If you insist on the water flushes, you should really follow them immediately with a feeding to replenish the nutes.
Vic Hammer
Member
What size is the pot? You mentioned well sized. I am wondering because . . .
you mentioned water 1.5L every 3 days, correct. And flushed with 4L? Way too much water. Your plant is tiny and just developing. Minimal roots and foliage. Therefore it doesn't need much water. Picture the foliage of the plant all balled up. How big would that be? The plant doesn't need much more water than this, volume wise, at a time. Also, even though it's coco be sure to let it dry a little to help promote root growth. That is what the young plant really needs, roots.
Mild EC in as close to daily waterings as you can get. Volume and strength increasing with the plants size.
Good luck.
you mentioned water 1.5L every 3 days, correct. And flushed with 4L? Way too much water. Your plant is tiny and just developing. Minimal roots and foliage. Therefore it doesn't need much water. Picture the foliage of the plant all balled up. How big would that be? The plant doesn't need much more water than this, volume wise, at a time. Also, even though it's coco be sure to let it dry a little to help promote root growth. That is what the young plant really needs, roots.
Mild EC in as close to daily waterings as you can get. Volume and strength increasing with the plants size.
Good luck.
Vic Hammer
Member
I'm going to say that pot is way too big. Personally I'd have that seedling in a 1L pot or so. You need to get some drying going. You need to get some roots cranking.
How's you room temps Day/Night. Night temps should stay close to day temps for maximum root growth. Is that coco cold? How's the humidity. That little one would like around 70%RH.
Good luck.
Right - smaller pot next time, but do you then need at some point to transplant to a larger pot? Temps - warm, I would say, as the cupboard is next to the airing cupboard. LED puts out far less heat than the metal halide bulbs I was using, and have a built in fan. Will get back to you on that, and as for humidity, I have no idea! How to test, and how to maintain?
Keep 'em coming - this is great. A lot to take in but that's fine.
Cheers to all
JP
Keep 'em coming - this is great. A lot to take in but that's fine.
Cheers to all
JP
Vic Hammer
Member
Yes indeed, transplanting is a process of steps to the final pot size. Think of it like clothing a person. Baby cloths, toddlers, youth, teens, adults. From seed a progression could look like this:
50/100mm -> 100/150mm -> 5L -> 10L -> ?
That's not written in stone, just an example of a pot progression.
Head over to the hardware store, or wherever, and grab a thermometer with a humidity gauge also. Stick that in your cab and monitor night/day temps and humidity. Rapid plant growth needs proper environment.
Up until flower/end of stretch your main goal should be a massive root system under a plant with healthy foliage. The root system is the key. Grow it and your plant will also.
With watering one of the most helpful things I ever learned was to know the mass of your pot both dry and wet. Fill a pot dry and pick it up then saturate that same pot and pick it up. Now you can use the feel of the pot to help determine watering schedule. Cause it will increase.
How's the little plant doing? Any better?
Cheers
Great - many thanks for that, and will do that. Given I am starting from scratch with Coir, I'm prepared to have early failure/low yield as a part of the learning process. There's no big hurry, and with you guys on hand it is a lot easier. Many thanks!
Plant growing slowly, but looking less stressed...
Plant growing slowly, but looking less stressed...
G
Guest 263194
looking better bro. but this is what would i do if i were you. follow the canna nutes time line ( use less then what it says) and I would be them to smaller pot. what size pot are you using btw. coco holds lot of water and if your using big pot for small plant , ofc they grow slowly and even if you water them right, it's gonna start drooping because the root can reach the water inside of coco I had same problem and know i am getting it shot me a pm if you need more suggestions good lucK and canna nutes are meant to be use it with tap water. let your water set for 48hr just in case man stop with ran water
and canna nutes are meant to be use it with tap water. let your water set for 48hr just in case man stop with ran waterVic Hammer
Member
Looking better.
Once you start getting that coco drying a bit on the regular and then get a little wet/dry cycle going her vigor will increase. Now you don't need to let the coco get bone dry but let it dry some so the plant will work.
Keep it up.
Once you start getting that coco drying a bit on the regular and then get a little wet/dry cycle going her vigor will increase. Now you don't need to let the coco get bone dry but let it dry some so the plant will work.
Keep it up.
5 litre pot - so will transplant it at some point today, into a smaller pot. Thanks for that. Tap water eh? What's the reason for that? We have pretty hard water here, it's a limestone area like much of Southern England (lots of good caves for the spelunkers!).
Lots of handy tips from folks - I think I will try to collate them into a idiot's/newbie's (both, for me!) and post it here when done for the panel of exports to check!
Later
Lots of handy tips from folks - I think I will try to collate them into a idiot's/newbie's (both, for me!) and post it here when done for the panel of exports to check!
Later
OK. Transplanted into a much smaller pot. 6" across the top 4" high and across the bottom. Should have measured the capacity but neglected to before the transplant, but I would think it holds a litre or thereabouts. Sadly, my days of being able to work out the volume of a truncated cone are long gone! 40 years gone, I'd guess!
Popped a layer of gravel on the bottom. The plant still looks a tad frail it seems to me (very slight yellowing of the leaves), but is not droopy or curling.
So - who could give me a simple routine for feeding and watering this, to get it so it is thriving, which as yet, I don't think I can say it is.
As noted, I have to hand the full range of Canna Coir nutes, also some CalMag & SuperThrive.
I have on order a Hanna PH & EC meter, and also a Humidity meter.
There is a minmax thermometer in the cupboard, indicating 28c max (with the LED on) and 24c min (off).
So - how much water, how often?
Tap or rainwater?
Let it stand for how long (both? tap only? rainwater?)
Nutrients - I posted the Canna guide, and folks say I should use it but either at 50% or 75% of what the guide suggests. The plant has now been in the Canna for three weeks, but I don't think it has three weeks growth, if you see what I mean, on account of my ignorance (sorry, little plant!).
Lighting. This is the light I am using - http://www.growlightsled.co.uk/90w-ufo-led-grow-light-five-spectrum-p-42.html - how far from the plant should it be?
Think that it's for the mo - here's a pic of the plant as it is, just transplanted, and here's the guide again for ease of checking - this is presented slightly differently to the one I showed before, but is in effect the same, other than that it only recommends the LOW end of the range of mls of whatever to add.
Hope the pic of the plant posts ok - it seems just to be a link at the moment.
Plant - https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=154350&stc=1&d=1329755035
Popped a layer of gravel on the bottom. The plant still looks a tad frail it seems to me (very slight yellowing of the leaves), but is not droopy or curling.
So - who could give me a simple routine for feeding and watering this, to get it so it is thriving, which as yet, I don't think I can say it is.
As noted, I have to hand the full range of Canna Coir nutes, also some CalMag & SuperThrive.
I have on order a Hanna PH & EC meter, and also a Humidity meter.
There is a minmax thermometer in the cupboard, indicating 28c max (with the LED on) and 24c min (off).
So - how much water, how often?
Tap or rainwater?
Let it stand for how long (both? tap only? rainwater?)
Nutrients - I posted the Canna guide, and folks say I should use it but either at 50% or 75% of what the guide suggests. The plant has now been in the Canna for three weeks, but I don't think it has three weeks growth, if you see what I mean, on account of my ignorance (sorry, little plant!).
Lighting. This is the light I am using - http://www.growlightsled.co.uk/90w-ufo-led-grow-light-five-spectrum-p-42.html - how far from the plant should it be?
Think that it's for the mo - here's a pic of the plant as it is, just transplanted, and here's the guide again for ease of checking - this is presented slightly differently to the one I showed before, but is in effect the same, other than that it only recommends the LOW end of the range of mls of whatever to add.
Hope the pic of the plant posts ok - it seems just to be a link at the moment.
Plant - https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=154350&stc=1&d=1329755035
Attachments
D
dramamine
feed them every day...use the veg stage recommendation....no more problems
Cheers - any suggestions on the other questions? How much water? Which water? Let it stand? ...
JP
Vic Hammer
Member
She's growing. Good job, things should start to come along nicely now.
Lights on temp is a touch high. Right around 25,26C would be optimum. Notice I said optimum.
Once the rest of your equipment comes you'll be a good position to really know what's going on with your plant.
Now on to feeding. The feed chart is too high for that little seedling. I would probably go about half the recommended strength. Also, know that Cannas solution ppm are going to be base on water with 0 ppm. Whatever the ppm of your water is will add to that. I have no experience using rain water so I can't make suggestions on its use. Your ppm meter will be able to tell you exactly how hard your tap water is. Maybe run down to the store and grab a gallon or two of distilled or whatever purified water available and use it for now. Then I'd suggest around 3mL A/B and 1mL Cal-Mag per gallon. If you use one of your waters on hand I would skip the Cal-Mag. Shoot for pH of 5.9. That solution will be a little mild but should be adequate. Once you get your meters you can start upping the solution strength a bit as the plant grows. The chart will probably always be too high though. I rarely feed veg above 1.0 EC which depending on ppm meter is 500-750 ppm. And I use about 100 ppm tap. I feed Moms the same strength.
Water when the pot feels lightish. The coco will look a touch dry on top. Just a little. Then water in 50 mL increments or so till you get a touch of runoff. If you measure around 10% will be cool. For know that will maybe be around every 2-3 days. Just a guess.
How high above the plant is the light now? I don't know LED's but since they say equivalent to 200w of HID I would hang it around 20-24" above for now. That should give adequate light. Maybe someone with LED experience will chime in on that one.
Keep up the good work.
Lights on temp is a touch high. Right around 25,26C would be optimum. Notice I said optimum.
Once the rest of your equipment comes you'll be a good position to really know what's going on with your plant.
Now on to feeding. The feed chart is too high for that little seedling. I would probably go about half the recommended strength. Also, know that Cannas solution ppm are going to be base on water with 0 ppm. Whatever the ppm of your water is will add to that. I have no experience using rain water so I can't make suggestions on its use. Your ppm meter will be able to tell you exactly how hard your tap water is. Maybe run down to the store and grab a gallon or two of distilled or whatever purified water available and use it for now. Then I'd suggest around 3mL A/B and 1mL Cal-Mag per gallon. If you use one of your waters on hand I would skip the Cal-Mag. Shoot for pH of 5.9. That solution will be a little mild but should be adequate. Once you get your meters you can start upping the solution strength a bit as the plant grows. The chart will probably always be too high though. I rarely feed veg above 1.0 EC which depending on ppm meter is 500-750 ppm. And I use about 100 ppm tap. I feed Moms the same strength.
Water when the pot feels lightish. The coco will look a touch dry on top. Just a little. Then water in 50 mL increments or so till you get a touch of runoff. If you measure around 10% will be cool. For know that will maybe be around every 2-3 days. Just a guess.
How high above the plant is the light now? I don't know LED's but since they say equivalent to 200w of HID I would hang it around 20-24" above for now. That should give adequate light. Maybe someone with LED experience will chime in on that one.
Keep up the good work.
Man I wish I can get away with my lights so far. My 1000watt is 8 inches from the canopy and honestly it could be a little bit closer.
