micro-scale organics: how to maintain living soil in small volumes -- open discussion

[heady blunts]

i'm considering transforming my micro cab into a more versatile perpetual SOG system.

this, of course, necessitates having many containers of a small volume (< 1L).

I'd like to ask the community for any advice, personal experience, even pure speculation.

will it work? tips and tricks? any major drawbacks? etc.

~~~~~~~~

for those who want more info on my specific situation:

i have a small apartment and the only room i had to grow is in a storage space above my bedroom closet. it's 22.5" x 22.5" x 8ft.

i engineered a 400w vert hps situation with four carefully trained plants each in a #3 smart pot. last run (in the heat of summer) got me over a half pound of meds.

the issue i'm facing now is that i am itching to expand my genetics and to eventually experiment with breeding. not to mention i'm starting to wish i had a few different flavors in my giant head stash

i have a plan b design for my cab that is basically a dr. bud style perpetual sog (i got a lot of inspiration from bali_man's cab). i'll replace the hps with two 4' six tube T5 arrays (total of 660 watts!). then i can do some mother selecting and keep my stash a little more exciting.

most of the grows i see on here doin this kinda thing use synthetic nutrients, but i'm a die hard living soil nut, so if the consensus is it aint gonna work, i'll probably just fire up my old system for another go.

 

[trichrider]

perpetual sog? i'm down for watching this pan out.

 

[xmobotx]

long been curious whether results like the dr bud system could be achieved in a single wide flat bed instead of multiple small containers

messes w the perpetual sog concept since one cant really rotate new in and old out by container

ftmp tho; its less efficient to run living soil in small containers ~ maybe if you had a nice mature diverse mix you could do dr bud to a "t" w/ living soil in cut off 20 ltr soda bottles prob help to have a mid flower boost or some such in that small of a container?

or maybe a little top dress?

 

[VerdantGreen]

hmm, i think the t5's are the best lighting solution for your space for sure - but given your lack of height and wish to grow varied genetics in organic soil, i think using a modular scrog system would be better for you - with shallow containers about 10" square and 5-6" deep they would be 5-6 litres and you could fit 2 deep and 4 along, 8 plants, under a 4' light fixture. bigger pots will be easier in organics and you will be able to use the scrog method to keep the height down. trying to micro sog plants from seed isnt easy at all as they stretch a lot.
but then i'm bound to recommend scrog i guess

VG

 

[schwagg]

i think you could easily pull it off HB. if it were me, id keep a larger source of soil with something else growing in it and just keep taking and adding to it. with no veg time and small, numerous plants i think you'd be just fine.

 

[Scrappy4]

Heady, in a small space the limiting factor will be space not numbers. In a 9 sq ft cabinet I max out root size and have enough plants to make sure one failure won't kill the grow (4). I use the most light that i can cool and without burning the plants, (600W) but plant numbers matter little.....scrappy

 

[xmobotx]

scrap, hes wantin to pull off a dr bud style perp sog otherwise i would say the same thing (already did; another poaster put up some ???s about doing dr bud organic)

what about using window boxes [or the like, a long rectangular pot] maybe have 4 of them starting/harvesting 1 pot @ a time?

 

[bonsai]

Wasn't your last harvest ... umm ... kinda berserk?
If it ain't broke...

 

[dank.frank]

Heady, the only thing is even rooted clone to flower in a 1/2g and you better run true 8 wk'ers, or else they get hungry fast. So then I like the bed idea, been tinkering there myself, but that limits variety. A tea achedule would be needed...


dank.Frank

 

[supermanlives]

i use shallow trays with great success

 

[supermanlives]

example 1

 

[heady blunts]

wow! awesome responses!

this community is the best

perpetual sog? i'm down for watching this pan out.

well it's still in the maybe/maybe not stage for now...but glad to have you in!

long been curious whether results like the dr bud system could be achieved in a single wide flat bed instead of multiple small containers

messes w the perpetual sog concept since one cant really rotate new in and old out by container

ftmp tho; its less efficient to run living soil in small containers ~ maybe if you had a nice mature diverse mix you could do dr bud to a "t" w/ living soil in cut off 20 ltr soda bottles prob help to have a mid flower boost or some such in that small of a container?

or maybe a little top dress?

what about using window boxes [or the like, a long rectangular pot] maybe have 4 of them starting/harvesting 1 pot @ a time?

i've been wondering about a bed too. i am nervous about seepage. if i were to get any leaks i'd be kinda fucked since my closet is right under it.

also the t5's would be stationary so i'd like to be able to raise the younger plants up to be closer to the bulbs. this would be impossible with a bed.

the window box idea is great.

hmm, i think the t5's are the best lighting solution for your space for sure - but given your lack of height and wish to grow varied genetics in organic soil, i think using a modular scrog system would be better for you - with shallow containers about 10" square and 5-6" deep they would be 5-6 litres and you could fit 2 deep and 4 along, 8 plants, under a 4' light fixture. bigger pots will be easier in organics and you will be able to use the scrog method to keep the height down. trying to micro sog plants from seed isnt easy at all as they stretch a lot.
but then i'm bound to recommend scrog i guess

VG

vg i love that idea. so 22.5" height - 3" lights - 6" container - 3" to screen = 10.5 inches for the canopy, 9.5" really since they plant can't actually touch the bulbs.

do you think that's enough space?

also, you're 100% right about seedlings. they will grow over 20 inches easily in my experience. i'd have to train them for sure. so another plus for mod scrog.

i think you could easily pull it off HB. if it were me, id keep a larger source of soil with something else growing in it and just keep taking and adding to it. with no veg time and small, numerous plants i think you'd be just fine.

that's a good idea! soil bank.

Heady, in a small space the limiting factor will be space not numbers. In a 9 sq ft cabinet I max out root size and have enough plants to make sure one failure won't kill the grow (4). I use the most light that i can cool and without burning the plants, (600W) but plant numbers matter little.....scrappy

that makes sense scrap, but my cab is such an odd shape, that i could dramatically change the size of the canopy by how i engineer the thing.

with the current design, i attempt to maximize canopy by doing a vertically oriented light in the center of the cab, and growing plants towards both sides of it. this way i get two canopies of roughly 4 square feet each = 8 sqft of canopy.

however, if i could grow short enough plants, and use a slender lighting system like a 4' T5, then i could have an even larger canopy area. roughly two canopies of 8square feet each = 16sqft canopy.

potentially doubling my output. also more plants is the goal, so that i can grow more varieties.

*vg* another reason for scrog- to keep diff strains with relatively even canopies.

Wasn't your last harvest ... umm ... kinda berserk?
If it ain't broke...

yea maybe i ought to get one more outta it while i work on all this... wouldn't be the worst idea.

Heady, the only thing is even rooted clone to flower in a 1/2g and you better run true 8 wk'ers, or else they get hungry fast. So then I like the bed idea, been tinkering there myself, but that limits variety. A tea achedule would be needed...


dank.Frank

yea i've been pretending that won't be an issue but your'e absolutely right.

i like sats and sat hybrids and i'd need room for them in my cab, but they may prove difficult in this dr. bud system.

i use shallow trays with great success

example 1

haha. SOLD!

how tall is the container? and the plants?

what's your soil situation?

they look veryyy happy

 

[Microbeman]

Heady; I can't totally visualize your situation but if you use the 'window box' or long bins with the lighting being central and vertically oriented you would have no need to 'raise' any plants to the light. If you built your own bins, I'd line them inside with landscape cloth, thereby creating smart pots and you could look for trays they might fit in to protect from drainage or line the outside with plastic or one large tray they will all fit in. (I don't know if hydroponic trays are that size). Take some tips from my post on soil surface area and depth in OFC.

 

[self]

wow heady, there are so many good responses here, you can pretty much pick and choose.
I saw somewhere in the vert forum where someone had custom square root brand window box bags. looks pretty tight.
can't wait to see what you set up!

 

[h.h.]

I'd use bottomless pots with a common bed. Cutting a peace sign in the bottoms with a coffee filter to hold the medium until planted @ which point the filter can be compromised. Planting high in the pot, with a quarter to a half inch of top dress over the top of the pots creating a common top zone.
I've been playing with oatmeal. A small pinch in my top dress gives me good fungal activity, very quickly. Plants are liking it. I killed 1 seedling with it, but I think that was from not giving it a little extra water. It's siblings were fine and it clumped the soil together making transplant easier. Long story short, I'd sprinkle a pinch between each pot.

 

[supermanlives]

i think the tray is 6 inches deep. i also fill the trays with 11, 1/2 gal growbags with the same end results. soil is a combination of 3 organic ferts. piece of mind, espoma and kellogg. earth juice is used to suppliment plants as needed. simple as hell to maintain . 1 gallon per tray.

 

[VerdantGreen]

example 1

are they all the same cut?
ive found that mixing strains at close quarters the same pot/tray will end up in one taking over the other or getting much taller at the expense of the others if there is any difference in vigor.

 

[VerdantGreen]

vg i love that idea. so 22.5" height - 3" lights - 6" container - 3" to screen = 10.5 inches for the canopy, 9.5" really since they plant can't actually touch the bulbs.

do you think that's enough space?

also, you're 100% right about seedlings. they will grow over 20 inches easily in my experience. i'd have to train them for sure. so another plus for mod scrog.
...

*vg* another reason for scrog- to keep diff strains with relatively even canopies.

i would go more like 4 or 5 inches to the screen - you need space to easily get your hand in there. also t5's dont have massive penetration so i would say that 6" canopy would be plenty.

as you point out modular scrog allows you to put the pots at different heights to even out the canopy - it also keeps each plant in it's allotted space too, and it means you can get each plant out and have a good look at it for nanners etc - important if you are trying new stuff from seed all the time.

here's an original haze - pretty much one of the stretchiest plants - from seed. done in a cab with about the same headroom as you have. scrog makes these things possible

VG

 

[supermanlives]

are they all the same cut?
ive found that mixing strains at close quarters the same pot/tray will end up in one taking over the other or getting much taller at the expense of the others if there is any difference in vigor.

good question LOL i cant remember right now as i been hitting the hash hard. i think it was same strain diff phenos 2 short and tall.