The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[Aeroguerilla]

Trying to figure out what the fuck is going on with some of my large gals. im seeing spotting yellowing with black dots on leaves. only on 1 or 2 arms of the plants while the rest are healthy as can be... not sure whats going on... far enough along where i dont believe it will be an issue but id still like to fix the problem or at least be able to identify it.

Its been getting real cold at night def got a frost last night already and these babies are sitting in bog water so im wondering if it could be from the temp of the water thats causing the problem. its only happening on 2 plants... they have all got the same feeding any help would be great. thanks

 

[CanniDo Cowboy]

I am specifically worried about the root rot that killed a plant overnight with only the slightest signs of having slowed behind the flowering of other like plants in the immediate area... one day it seemed to be thriving... enough so not to draw the eye... drinking water normally... the next day it was completely dead. We are taking down the corpse today and I will have a look at the roots to be sure of the cause of death. If we lose one a week will the end of the season, it won;t wipe us out, but it will hurt. We do a small garden of big plants over here and the margins for failure are small. So mainly, I am anxious about colder conditions, sodden pots and conditions that might encourage the main enemy, soil borne pathogens.

There are also couple of plants that have been increasingly unhealthy have parts that are healhty and parts that are not but nothing is outright dead yet... The parts that are unhealthy looking (50+%) have smaller buds that seem to be more ripe than the bigger buds on the healthy looking branches... Its a race to see if the rest of that strain will succumb before they finish in 2.5-3.5 weeks.

Again, I'm only talking about a handful of plants at the moment but next year, the county will limit me to 18 plants. I'm not doing much more than that right now, but this year's losses would be compounded harshly in an 18 plant paradigm... the idea would have to be bigger plants in bigger pots with bigger chance of disaster. More eggs in each basket.

In no way am I trying to diminish growing in CO, but it seems like the plants in Cali are bigger... we have a longer, softer season and the plants get big and lazy . They take a lot more life support than smaller heartier plants I see more the norm outside in CO. Please correct me if I am just missing out on the 15x15' plants in CO. The biggest plants I have seen are in greenhouses. Again, this is just what i am seeing and I am not out there looking at CO plants all day.

In a perfect world I'd be growing 10x the plants i am now in much smaller pots, planted much later in the season. .

Hey Nom...Great insight. The only thing Ive seen that can kill a plant immediately as in overnite is a mole or gopher, excluding any lethal or toxic tainted mix of course. I had a plant half way thru flower, beautiful when I watered in the evening, deader than hell the next mornin. Couldnt believe it. The only reason I didnt suspect it was anything I had done was that I had watered the other plants too. I pulled up the plant and found the tunnel leading right to the tap which was chewed thru. I believe it was a gopher.

[I]"There are also couple of plants that have been increasingly unhealthy have parts that are healhty and parts that are not but nothing is outright dead yet..."[/I]

I have one OG doing the same thing. It started showing serious signs of sickness just after flowering began but the rest of my plants, getting the same feeding and care were fine. Rapid and massive yellowing and dying of all the shade leaves. The flowers didnt seem to be affected so I let it go on. I suppose I could have gone all scientific on it and try to figure out the problem but with all the other plants healthy, I just assumed the plant had personal issues and decided to let her do her thing, good or bad.

The plant reached 5ft or so and it's now a few weeks from harvest with pretty respectable colas but there isnt hardly a single leaf left on the plant. Like you, it's been a race to see which was gonna happen first: The plant would finish or die instead. Ugly as sin. I later suspected the dreaded Fusarium that everyone is talking about and it might be but why would the plant still throw the buds? Who knows. Funny, I was too embarrassed to post a pic and like I said, figured if I lose her, I lose her.

But youre right. Losing anyone of your plants can have an impact down the line. I'm not sure why it happens, it shouldnt happen but sometimes it does. Like you, I want to know why so it wont happen again if it's something I did or could have prevented. Press on bro, youre one of the best at what you do...CC

 

[guest8905]

lots of rot, lots of wilt, lots of fusarium, lots of nasty this year lol

lots of people are dealing with losses, some acceptable, some not

 

[Midnight]

Trying to figure out what the fuck is going on with some of my large gals. im seeing spotting yellowing with black dots on leaves.

Sounds like leaf spot fungus. You may find this article helpful.

http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/pdf_pubs/648.pdf

 

[Yes4Prop215]

hey aero i found the same shit on some of my cherry pies man...but it doesnt look like leaf spot fungus like what midnight posted...il try to get a better pic later, but its basically a yellowed leaf that looks like it got peppered...the spots are very small, they look like black spider mites...

im almost sure its insects because my plants are not in any bogs or dealing with any frost......

 

[Midnight]

hey aero i found the same shit on some of my cherry pies man...but it doesnt look like leaf spot fungus like what midnight posted...il try to get a better pic later, but its basically a yellowed leaf that looks like it got peppered...the spots are very small, they look like black spider mites...

im almost sure its insects because my plants are not in any bogs or dealing with any frost......

You're description sounds like shot hole fungus.

 

[bombadil.360]

black spot on leaves is always fungus ime.

cut the leaves and check within the adjacent buds, check in as in open the buds with your hands carefully and inspect the stem, if you see little black dots, this is due to humidity and lack of air circulation, and of course due to spores that found their way into there. there is really no cure at this stage of flowering, only thing to do is chop all affected areas to slow down the spreading and to give time to the rest to finish.

good luck!

awesome trees everyone, very good job

peace!

 

[YosemiteSam]

Of all things

Of all things

Freakin CO grasshoppers damn near ate completely through one of my branches. It is going yellow and will probably die. Rest of the plant is fine. Here I thought they were just annoying...but I was wrong. Cannot figure out why but there is very little bird activity...guess they have more than they can eat this year.

 

[Peppermint]

lots of rot, lots of wilt, lots of fusarium, lots of nasty this year lol

lots of people are dealing with losses, some acceptable, some not

Maybe the late, wet, cold Spring may have set things up for a more difficult Fall season this year.

Far as rot is concerned I guess most people are referring to pythium and not botrytis. Maybe the late harvest grape growers in the Napa/Sonoma area are looking forward to a good botrytis year?

i realize the the goal is to deal with the soil borne pathogen, but does anyone know how hydrogen peroxide affects beneficials?

H2O2 falls from the sky during thunderstorms so Mother Nature must know what she's doing. Granted the amount in a thunderstorm is minimal but still there.

Your microlife is constantly dieing off. Bacteria can reproduce about every 20 minutes. When they die off a nice release of plant ready nutes. The population will rebound quickly if conditions are right. So you whack a bunch, they release a bunch of nutes and since the ORP value is high readily available. Fungi reproduce more slowly but guessing they're more resilient too. Root hairs are sensitive but you'd probably have to over do it to damage them and well beyond what you need to use.

I talked to Solvay Chemical years back, one of the largest producers of peroxides, and they recommend a 50% H2O2 solution in addition to heat to sterilize fruit juice boxes. No way can you sterilize your soil with a little H2O2.

Best way I would think to figure out the proper ORP value for a particular setup would be to monitor the plant's sap and chart daily. I'm guessing you'd want to see minimal fluctuation in the values you're looking at day-to-day regardless if you just watered or if a few days ago. If anything after watering with ORP adjusted nute solution/water you'd probably want to see increased nute uptake opposed to a stall of some sort or at the least stable uptake.

Anyway...just my hypothesis.

 

[THE TROOPER]

Trying to figure out what the fuck is going on with some of my large gals. im seeing spotting yellowing with black dots on leaves. only on 1 or 2 arms of the plants while the rest are healthy as can be... not sure whats going on... far enough along where i dont believe it will be an issue but id still like to fix the problem or at least be able to identify it.

Its been getting real cold at night def got a frost last night already and these babies are sitting in bog water so im wondering if it could be from the temp of the water thats causing the problem. its only happening on 2 plants... they have all got the same feeding any help would be great. thanks

few clicks south and west of your pinetree state and
having the exact same issues as you on my big girls! couple branches got it and most of the rest don't!
i have a huge c99 that is not going to be ready for at least 3 more weeks that i sprayed with green cure that seams to have put it in check for now......and can only hope the cool dry weather sets in!

worst for spider mites i can remember also!

TT

 

[mapinguari]

few clicks south and west of your pinetree state and
having the exact same issues as you on my big girls! couple branches got it and most of the rest don't!
i have a huge c99 that is not going to be ready for at least 3 more weeks that i sprayed with green cure that seams to have put it in check for now......and can only hope the cool dry weather sets in!

worst for spider mites i can remember also!

TT

Yeah, the grasshoppers and fungus both seem to love C99. I have two of 'em, one is hating it and the other one is doing pretty well. The hating it one is dropping several leaves a day, just like described. I'm going to double compost tea frequency to 2x/ week and lactic acid bacteria foliar once a week.

 

[guest8905]

havent seen much if any boystris (grey mold) yet but im def seeing some pm here and there on some under branches, hate that shit

still surprises and make me sad when i see pm buds on the market, cmon folks....just toss that stuff in the trash please, not in a pack

 

[nomaad]

I love the sense of solidarity in this thread. Welcome to the newer participants.

Been thinking about adding some H2O2 into the mix... found this on another canna forum (user highpsi)-:

Before I make this statement, I will preface it by saying that I'm not refutting the possible benefits of using H2O2 (I use it myself) but I thought RIU readers might like to check out this article: http://www.crophouse.co.nz/files/CG_...oxide-view.pdf

It's a pretty interesting article but the very first paragraph pretty much sums it up:

Hydrogen Peroxide is not suitible for root disease control in nutrient solutions of soilless cultures. This was the outcome of a research project funded by the VegFed Fresh Vegetable Sector reported in the Grower of october 2000. Pathogen control in water requires at least 100ppm of H2O2. Levels of 85-100ppm nearly killed young lettuce seedlings, while 8-12ppm reduced growth of hydroponic lettuce plants. H2O2 can be used, though, for disinfection of isolated batches of water or for making and keeping the irrigation system clean.
From another website: http://www.greenhousecanada.com/content/view/1115/38/

Disinfection with Chemical Treatment H2O2 (Hydrogen peroxide)

First the Pros:

• Relatively inexpensive water disinfectant.

• No long-term or accumulative residues.

• Ideal environmental fate – breaks down into water and oxygen.

And the Cons:

• Relatively poor biocide.

• Sensitive to physical impurities.

• Heavy metals instantly catalyze H2O2 – cannot come in contact with metal parts, chelated micronutrients, etc.

• Interferes with micronutrients.

• Phytotoxicity issues at higher doses.

Two major cons which make me think twice about using H2O2:

Relatively poor biocide: In other words, you have to use extreme doses to kill pathogens, which in turn is a phytotoxic dose.
Interferes with micronutrients: This doesn't bode well at all.

So it seems, according to these studies at least, that in order for H2O2 to be truly effective at killing pathogens in your reservoir, it also has to be at a dose which is, at least somewhat, phytotoxic. Not only that, but it probably interferes with chelated micro nutrients as well. Are there any experienced growers here who have done a side by side comparison of H2O2 treated vs. non-treated nutrient solution and got any kind of meaningfull results?

I'm just curious, because while H2O2 treatment of nutrient solution is the conventional wisdom, I'm wondering if it's founded on a scientific/experiential basis or is it done just because everybody else does it?

 

[Meds215]

meds215 checking in already been having to harvest thick colas early too Botrytis

Blue Dream, Power Plant, Gods Gift, unknown bagseed hybrid super sticky and diesel smelling

 

[nomaad]

We have seen no botrytis or PM yet. We took the precaution of eradicating all the sweet pea inside out fenceline this year and will be hitting those areas hard with Kaligreen in the next couple of days.... Hoping that will keep the Pm down... also,... I am not running big Pineapple Cough plants this year. It was the lowers on those plants that had some PM on them last year. Along with the two shitty Bubba S1s that were just riddled with it. I probably would not have had any Pm with the PC's if I had culled those Bubba's earlier.

I am running a *different* Bubba S1 in some small pots in the headstash garden. I hope she doesn't have the same predilection for powder or she will just have to go.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

You're description sounds like shot hole fungus.

hey i looked up pictures of that and its not the same..the holes are too big on the shot hole fungus pictures i found here..

our plants literally look like someone took black pepper, and sprinkled it on the fan leaves after they yellow. its only happening to the cherry pies....which after their low yield and low vigor i will not be running outdoors anymore...

 

[Trinity Gold]

Review of 24/0 Light out doors...Soil borne pathogens..and cooler weather..

Review of 24/0 Light out doors...Soil borne pathogens..and cooler weather..

Definitely extended the season on the Old Betsy that got to have lighting. The D.O.G did not get its veg cycle stretched out... On the garden with no lights I'm about 10-14 days ahead of the others. I would use the lights if you have an early finishing strain and are getting a late start...Next year I am going to gradually reduce the amount of lights until Solstice and let them do their thing.

Seeing Verticillium Albo-Atrum on 8 out of 60 plants at my 300 gallon smart pot garden on as little as 1% of the plant and up to 75% ...Next year I am going to start about 6 weeks later and change up the way I do my pre pot program to just reduce the risk of issues with the gross phenotype of the plant and root system as well.

I also will know what I'm doing and not decide to do it super late and jump in to a bunch of things. All the in the ground mounds are doing the best. Going to do a lot more in the ground next year.

 

[Peppermint]

Yeah, the grasshoppers and fungus both seem to love C99.

IMO C99 is a poor choice for outdoor growing especially in more humid/wet climates.

We took the precaution of eradicating all the sweet pea inside out fenceline this year

Hell yeah good call. That shit is a pest/PM magnet.

Relatively poor biocide: In other words, you have to use extreme doses to kill pathogens, which in turn is a phytotoxic dose.

Interferes with micronutrients: This doesn't bode well at all.

So it seems, according to these studies at least, that in order for H2O2 to be truly effective at killing pathogens in your reservoir, it also has to be at a dose which is, at least somewhat, phytotoxic. Not only that, but it probably interferes with chelated micro nutrients as well. Are there any experienced growers here who have done a side by side comparison of H2O2 treated vs. non-treated nutrient solution and got any kind of meaningfull results?

I'm just curious, because while H2O2 treatment of nutrient solution is the conventional wisdom, I'm wondering if it's founded on a scientific/experiential basis or is it done just because everybody else does it?

Personally I don't see H2O2 as a biocide but more to increase medium O2 values which things like pythium don't like. You don't kill it but create a less favorable enviro for it's growth. If I'm remembering correctly a study I came across a few years ago was on hydro lettuce grown outdoors in New Zealand. When the DO was above a certain PPM, which was actually pretty low, pythium could not take hold even when they inoculated the system with pythium. I see H2O2 more as a preventative supporting a more healthy aerobic enviro and also to help counteract the drowning of the medium after watering. If you're looking at a medium biocide you'd do some serious damage to the soil microflora and in that case you might as well run salt ferts in a more inert medium like coco and go for sterility and just use low levels of bleach.

The link you provided looks vaguely familiar. I could not find the study I mentioned but a few others for food for thought:
http://www.crophouse.co.nz/files/CG_W06-Pythium-view.pdf
Pythium only successful in stressed plants.

http://www.crophouse.co.nz/files/GR_W12-Ozonation_part3-view.pdf

http://www.ghvi.co.nz/NFT/Disease_in_Hydroponics.html

Fungicide treatments applied to nutrient solutions.
In many countries overseas fungicide treatments of nutrient solution used for food crops are illegal, and while not illegal in NZ, safety is somewhat questionable. The effectiveness of most fungicides is also very limited, particularly as primary pathogens and especially Pythium readily mutate and become resistant to repeated applications of the same fungicide. There is also considerable variation in susceptibility to specific fungicides between different species of Pythium, and the usual diagnoses do not identify Pythium species.

You can use stuff like granular calcium peroxide (CaO2) in your medium from Solvay but some drawbacks. The more acid the enviro the faster it will react out and using it you're adding Ca to the mix which for awhile acts as a strong buffer until it runs out then most likely a wicked pH shift low. The more acid the enviro the more H2O2 you get instead of O2 if I'm remembering correctly. Works great in short cycle indoor growing though if you can dial it in properly especially lower in the pots where O2 levels are lower. You'd have to come up with a more timed released formula for outdoor growing.

I looked into Oxidate more and advertised to control/eradicate pythium on contact. A broad spectrum antimicrobial. I guess if you use it maybe follow up with a good bacterial/fungal tea? My understanding is that bacterial/fungal teas are more important growing in pots opposed to in the ground.

If you go in and try to kill the pythium outright you'll kill everything else.

Anyway that's about all I can add and hopefully helpful. Healthy plants equals pest/disease resistant plants.

 

[Trinity Gold]

Old Betsy in a 300..Wonderful variety!

How is every one else coming along?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

lookin awesome TG! interesting notes about the supp lighting vs non lighting..real glad some of yall do side by sides so we can dial in what works. got any pics of that Verticillium Albo-Atrum and what it does to the plant...i checked on google most pics showed burnt fan leaves..