Sleepy Hollow Canyon-2011
- Thread starter CanniDo Cowboy
- Start date
Hey Mani...On your first: Well yea, but I dont suppose that would be the worst thing to happen would it?... on your second- It's a first year garden, I'll let you know in sept/oct...lol CC
Yo Ham...Dude, after this shit, I'm feelin so old I dont remember if I ever was young! lol As any farmer will tell ya, the first year is always the toughest...lol It's all good my friend! Thanks!CC
LOL bud...Yea, I figure if I pace myself, I'll have 6 footers in 3 years...lol CC
An Interesting Development-Triumph, Tragedy Or Time For Plan B?
Ah, the best laid plans of mice, men and growers...'Ol CC finds himself on the horns of an enema or dilemma or maybe I just need a dilemma enema! Ive made no bones about or tried to conceal the fact that the Sleepy Hollow project is a first year attempt at the outdoor scene. Ive grown outdoors in the past, but it was just a place for overflo from my indoor op. I grew some in whiskey barrels and plugged quite a few in my vegetable garden. Some reached 6 ft and had pretty decent yield.
That said, I'm no pilgrim when it comes to growing outdoors. However, this year, Ive devoted ALL my efforts to outdoors and the Sleepy Hollow thread bears that out. But now, I find myself at a growers crossroads...Shit, shit, shit...
I'll explain as quickly as I can: I purchased my clones in Feb - Cheaper prices, better selection, avoid the spring rush and possible clone shortage and the always increase in price. Fact- I paid $10.00 apiece in Feb, same clone now is $20.00 (dispensary prices) and I wouldnt be surprised to see $25.00 in June. Anyway, applying my indoor skills, the majority of the clones, which started out around 4" in height, are now between 3 and 4 ft tall. A few even taller. Let's just say everything is bigger than I expected or desired. That's the first "shit!".
Try as I might by using only minimal flouro lighting to "pace" the growth, the girls have still gotten out of hand. The tramps! I figured they would have to veg indoors from Feb to maybe late April at which time I would kick em outdoors. Big mistake. I underestimated my skills, the growth rate or maybe both. They outgrew their indoor veg room by April which was fine, but in the meantime, I also learned in order to prevent pre-flower, the earliest they should go in the ground around here would be June 1st (it's my first year in the area). What to do, what to do? Build a halfway house with supplemental lighting! No problem, get er done!! Didnt see that coming but when yer in for a penny, a pound is never far behind.
So, with the half way house built and lights a-twinkling, the problem was solved. Or so I thought. There was a moment of bliss because the plants were happy, I was happy and my grow world was at peace. I say a fleeting moment because between days of 80+ temps, full sun and supplemental lighting, the plants have reached the "f-n enormous" stage. And I still have 2 weeks to go...Second "shit!"
Meanwhile, back at the grow ranch, the holes are finished. But in digging the holes, a major problem was discovered that would put the already large plant problem in even more jeopardy. The grow area was massively "rocked up" and after spending 3 hours on just one 3 ft diameter x 3ft deep hole, I realized this discovery was also "focked up". It was quickly realized that making larger holes to adjust for the larger plants wasnt going to be an option. Not a "shit!", but i remember sayin: "OK, this can't be good..."
Now, a few contributors to the Sleepy Hollow thread have said: "Dang CC, thems is some pretty big plants...!" And some have asked: "Cowboy-dude, are you sure those piddly holes are gonna support them big girls...?" And some of just plain said, "Hey bro, ya better find Houston's number 'cause you may have a problem..." As I gaze at the plants, and look at the holes, a fear that they maybe right is beginning to creep over me like a giant Blue Dream cola blocking out the sun...
The third "shit!"? Oh yea, just a small issue. I suspected it several weeks ago and have now confirmed: More than half of the girls...wait for it...are flowering! Is that f'n hysterical or what?? I have to go throw up now but I will continue the "Sleepy Hollow Triumph or Tradgedy in a bit...Stay tuned...I think I'm gonna have to pocket my grower pride and ask for advice...CC
Oh Wait, first, a newer developing story! Man, when it rains it pours...Literally! Remember the lovely Navajo Rain I mentioned a ways back? Gentle? Nourishing? Yea well, it's been mostly raining for 4 days and last nite it decided to get a little rowdy. It's turned into what the Navajo call a Comanche Rain which is a Navajo Rain with a bad attitude...lol
The creek is back to babbling...actually it's got me to babblin...
The holes are on high ground so we dodged a bullet there...Hey, it could be Mississippi!
Reminds me of the Johnny Cash tune: "How high's the water mama? It's 2ft high n risin..."
"Mamas dont let yer babies grow up to be growers..."
Before the storm, 4 days ago...
This morning's surprise...
The good news is, "the kids are alright" but um....do they make med-plant floaties, just in case...?
Alrighty then, back to the crossroads/dilemma:
So I have extra large clones which may or may not produce xtra large plants and the 3ft x 3ft holes may or may not support the possible extra large clones in terms of healthy plants at harvest, which if true, could spell a wasted season. Enlarging the holes isnt an option. And the larger Sativas (6) are showing signs of pre-flower. (If I plant the pre-flowers, I have to gamble they will re-veg or I'll have to pick back the flowers which could retard their growth). Could be a losing scenario either way...
Let me throw this in: When I put the girls outside in the halfway house, I took clones from all of them as back-up and 'just in case". When I discovered the pre-flower, I switched the smaller clone lighting from a T5 bank of HO's to an HD with a 250 watt daylite bulb to quicken the growth. The reason being is that if at the time of planting the extra large clones are going to be too large for the holes, I have created the option of having the smaller clones (apprx 6-8inches) ready to go. But it would force me to blackbox the extra large ones. IMO, that is good and bad. Good because I would get an early crop - bad because I now have 2 different grows to deal with and the flowering plants would need covering on a 12/12 schedule (2 separate grows = a lot more work).
So, do I go for it and risk the season by planting the big plants in the 3x3's and hope for the best, knowing they might be too large for the holes and also knowing the associated risks with the pre-flower ie; the unknowns of the re-veg or do I err on the side of caution and plant the smaller clones and black box the big clones? Alright fellas, gimme some feedback...Thanks CC
Afterthought: It has always been my experience that clones dont grow as large as seed plants. Perhaps I'm over-thinking this whole process and have nothing to worry about. In other words, plant the big twits in the existing holes and get on with the program...lol
Ah, the best laid plans of mice, men and growers...'Ol CC finds himself on the horns of an enema or dilemma or maybe I just need a dilemma enema! Ive made no bones about or tried to conceal the fact that the Sleepy Hollow project is a first year attempt at the outdoor scene. Ive grown outdoors in the past, but it was just a place for overflo from my indoor op. I grew some in whiskey barrels and plugged quite a few in my vegetable garden. Some reached 6 ft and had pretty decent yield.
That said, I'm no pilgrim when it comes to growing outdoors. However, this year, Ive devoted ALL my efforts to outdoors and the Sleepy Hollow thread bears that out. But now, I find myself at a growers crossroads...Shit, shit, shit...
I'll explain as quickly as I can: I purchased my clones in Feb - Cheaper prices, better selection, avoid the spring rush and possible clone shortage and the always increase in price. Fact- I paid $10.00 apiece in Feb, same clone now is $20.00 (dispensary prices) and I wouldnt be surprised to see $25.00 in June. Anyway, applying my indoor skills, the majority of the clones, which started out around 4" in height, are now between 3 and 4 ft tall. A few even taller. Let's just say everything is bigger than I expected or desired. That's the first "shit!".
Try as I might by using only minimal flouro lighting to "pace" the growth, the girls have still gotten out of hand. The tramps! I figured they would have to veg indoors from Feb to maybe late April at which time I would kick em outdoors. Big mistake. I underestimated my skills, the growth rate or maybe both. They outgrew their indoor veg room by April which was fine, but in the meantime, I also learned in order to prevent pre-flower, the earliest they should go in the ground around here would be June 1st (it's my first year in the area). What to do, what to do? Build a halfway house with supplemental lighting! No problem, get er done!! Didnt see that coming but when yer in for a penny, a pound is never far behind.
So, with the half way house built and lights a-twinkling, the problem was solved. Or so I thought. There was a moment of bliss because the plants were happy, I was happy and my grow world was at peace. I say a fleeting moment because between days of 80+ temps, full sun and supplemental lighting, the plants have reached the "f-n enormous" stage. And I still have 2 weeks to go...Second "shit!"
Meanwhile, back at the grow ranch, the holes are finished. But in digging the holes, a major problem was discovered that would put the already large plant problem in even more jeopardy. The grow area was massively "rocked up" and after spending 3 hours on just one 3 ft diameter x 3ft deep hole, I realized this discovery was also "focked up". It was quickly realized that making larger holes to adjust for the larger plants wasnt going to be an option. Not a "shit!", but i remember sayin: "OK, this can't be good..."
Now, a few contributors to the Sleepy Hollow thread have said: "Dang CC, thems is some pretty big plants...!" And some have asked: "Cowboy-dude, are you sure those piddly holes are gonna support them big girls...?" And some of just plain said, "Hey bro, ya better find Houston's number 'cause you may have a problem..." As I gaze at the plants, and look at the holes, a fear that they maybe right is beginning to creep over me like a giant Blue Dream cola blocking out the sun...
The third "shit!"? Oh yea, just a small issue. I suspected it several weeks ago and have now confirmed: More than half of the girls...wait for it...are flowering! Is that f'n hysterical or what?? I have to go throw up now but I will continue the "Sleepy Hollow Triumph or Tradgedy in a bit...Stay tuned...I think I'm gonna have to pocket my grower pride and ask for advice...CC
Oh Wait, first, a newer developing story! Man, when it rains it pours...Literally! Remember the lovely Navajo Rain I mentioned a ways back? Gentle? Nourishing? Yea well, it's been mostly raining for 4 days and last nite it decided to get a little rowdy. It's turned into what the Navajo call a Comanche Rain which is a Navajo Rain with a bad attitude...lol
The creek is back to babbling...actually it's got me to babblin...
The holes are on high ground so we dodged a bullet there...Hey, it could be Mississippi!
Reminds me of the Johnny Cash tune: "How high's the water mama? It's 2ft high n risin..."
"Mamas dont let yer babies grow up to be growers..."
Before the storm, 4 days ago...
This morning's surprise...
The good news is, "the kids are alright" but um....do they make med-plant floaties, just in case...?
Alrighty then, back to the crossroads/dilemma:
So I have extra large clones which may or may not produce xtra large plants and the 3ft x 3ft holes may or may not support the possible extra large clones in terms of healthy plants at harvest, which if true, could spell a wasted season. Enlarging the holes isnt an option. And the larger Sativas (6) are showing signs of pre-flower. (If I plant the pre-flowers, I have to gamble they will re-veg or I'll have to pick back the flowers which could retard their growth). Could be a losing scenario either way...
Let me throw this in: When I put the girls outside in the halfway house, I took clones from all of them as back-up and 'just in case". When I discovered the pre-flower, I switched the smaller clone lighting from a T5 bank of HO's to an HD with a 250 watt daylite bulb to quicken the growth. The reason being is that if at the time of planting the extra large clones are going to be too large for the holes, I have created the option of having the smaller clones (apprx 6-8inches) ready to go. But it would force me to blackbox the extra large ones. IMO, that is good and bad. Good because I would get an early crop - bad because I now have 2 different grows to deal with and the flowering plants would need covering on a 12/12 schedule (2 separate grows = a lot more work).
So, do I go for it and risk the season by planting the big plants in the 3x3's and hope for the best, knowing they might be too large for the holes and also knowing the associated risks with the pre-flower ie; the unknowns of the re-veg or do I err on the side of caution and plant the smaller clones and black box the big clones? Alright fellas, gimme some feedback...Thanks CC
Afterthought: It has always been my experience that clones dont grow as large as seed plants. Perhaps I'm over-thinking this whole process and have nothing to worry about. In other words, plant the big twits in the existing holes and get on with the program...lol
Slangheat
Member
Shoot man! Sorry to hear about early flowering... what hours were you runnin that supp light?
I took my clones in April, by the first week of this month (may) I was in 3's and ready to move outside under supp lights. My F'up, I believe, was going straight from 24/0 inside to 20/0 outside, with drastic temp changes. One of my BlueSat's looks like she's "in the mode" or at least beginning to trigger, while the rest of my varieties are fine. I think my little supplemental CFL's fail to light up the plants enough in really thick cloudy whether... next year I will definitely be using some sort of reflectors LOL.
Got any pics of your flowering girls by chance?
Hey Slang...yea, it's a drag (maybe) or just time to "cowboy up"...lol Like you, I have suspicions as to my predicament. I went from 18/6 indoor to a 19/6 outdoors and leave the lights on during cloudy days so I dont believe insufficient supp lighting is the culprit although I cant rule it out completely.
To err on the side of caution, I set my flouros to the following schedule: I began by using daylite from 7.00 am to 5:00 pm(10hrs). My lights (3-4ft 2-bulb flouros) come on at 5pm a couple hours before dark but I wait till almost dark to cover(blackbox) which is 2 xtra hours of daylite= 12 hours of daylite). The lites go off at 1:00am, come back on at 7:00 am. I leave em on until the sun hits the plants (an additional 1-2 hrs) So the lites are actually on from 6pm til 1am, off the same 6 hours as were inside and then back on for 2 hrs in the AM. I figured between the standard 6 hour sleep period plus the 12 hours of daylite and the 7+ hours of supp lighting, 19/6 -20/6 should keep me out of trouble. And as I said, on cloudy days I left the lights on all day just to insure no pre-flower. I havent started squeezing the supp lighting down yet either. Hey, you asked! LOL Now, if all that makes sense, you would make a good rocket scientist! LOL
The plants showin pre-flower sign are all Sativas. Specifically the Blue Dreams. The purples (GDP) and the Kushes are fine, so far - If I had to guess, I would say my lighting is sufficient, but the sativas are trigger happy? It did get quite cold a while back (47-49 degrees) and perhaps the sativas are susceptable to cold? That would be my second guess.
Anyway, all is not lost and no need for grower despair. It may be this cowboy's first outdoor rodeo along these lines, but I'm far from bein whupped! CC
Will get a pic up soon but yea, they be ho-in out on me...lol
growbig789
Member
More of a question than suggestion... what if you top some of the ones that have started flowering? would cutting the tops induce the plant to think more about going back into veg stage along with maybe an hour or two increase in the supplemental lighting?
I've had my plants out during the day and in at ngt with supplemental lighting on about a 15/9 schedule for the last couple months but I finally put them out at their location in the ground yesterday and I'm hoping I didn't do it a bit too early.
Maybe rootbound in the pots have also made them think more about flowering? I'm in 530 too and right now with twilight included we're sitting at about 15.5 hrs light and 8.5 dark I believe. Maybe you just put them out right now and let'em go?
I've had my plants out during the day and in at ngt with supplemental lighting on about a 15/9 schedule for the last couple months but I finally put them out at their location in the ground yesterday and I'm hoping I didn't do it a bit too early.
Maybe rootbound in the pots have also made them think more about flowering? I'm in 530 too and right now with twilight included we're sitting at about 15.5 hrs light and 8.5 dark I believe. Maybe you just put them out right now and let'em go?
Slangheat
Member
Can't remember where right now, but I do remember reading (I think, Tom Hill) talking about early finishing sativas being trigger happy.
My GDP is fine and vegging right along as well, she didn't trigger on me last year either while the Green Crack went all sexy on me this time of year...
Best thing I can thing of is to feed heavy amounts of N, try to bring em back out...
Good stuff Grow...good stuff. The root bound could be another cause. Ive got the girls in 3 gal Geos and they are becoming more unhappy by the day. The Geo's have actually saved my ass so far but the larger Sativas may have taken exception. I'll be discussin my situation and exploring some options when I get back to my Triumph Or Tragedy post but right now, I'm trying to find my kayak so I can get down in the Hollow! LOL Thanks for the input man! CC
hey Slang yea, the GDP is bullet proof for sure. I know smaller plants arent a problem re-veggin. I'm just not sure on 4ft +ers. My experience tells me at that size, you aint stoppin em unless you cut em down! LOL and that obviously aint an option...lol Funny, most folks would wet their pants for 4 footers but they got me scramblin...go figure CC
Manitoid
Member
my question now is... without trying to sound like a dead horse beater...
will those holes support the end result of the plants as they exist (huge already)?
By the way. I have never seen such resolve as you with your rock hounding!
I thought i had it bad pick axing in hard pan. I had to dig 3-5 inches, fill with water and come back to that hole tomorrow for 10 days.
But I had no rocks.
Did you find any cool ones?
will those holes support the end result of the plants as they exist (huge already)?
By the way. I have never seen such resolve as you with your rock hounding!
I thought i had it bad pick axing in hard pan. I had to dig 3-5 inches, fill with water and come back to that hole tomorrow for 10 days.
But I had no rocks.
Did you find any cool ones?
B
Butte_Creek
CC- yeah, preflowering sucks. truth is, if your worried about plants getting too big, ime preflowering will help very much in preventing rapid vegetative growth and slow those sativas down while hormones revert to veg.
i've had experience with pre flowering. but in my case, trying to get the largest plants possible, preflowering = culling and starting with fresh vegetative stock. i had a few GCs that preflowered that i reverted back to veg(which was a slow process), and some GC that never preflowered. the preflowered GC were 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the non preflowered plants.
preflowering will slow your plants down for a couple months at most while they revert back to veg.
heavy nitrogen will encourage them to flip back to veg. i would also extend those hours of light.
this could be a blessing in disguise! if your worried about overall size that is.
i've had experience with pre flowering. but in my case, trying to get the largest plants possible, preflowering = culling and starting with fresh vegetative stock. i had a few GCs that preflowered that i reverted back to veg(which was a slow process), and some GC that never preflowered. the preflowered GC were 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the non preflowered plants.
preflowering will slow your plants down for a couple months at most while they revert back to veg.
heavy nitrogen will encourage them to flip back to veg. i would also extend those hours of light.
this could be a blessing in disguise! if your worried about overall size that is.
LOL Mani...Dead horse beating is OK as long as it isnt one of my horses LOL Your question: "will those holes support the end result of the plants as they exist (huge already)?" is one to which I dont have an answer simply because I dont know how big the plants will get, especially considering the pre-flower symptoms some of the plants now show.
Here's my experience: (Clones) Ive had and seen small sickly plants grow into giants and top pick starters fizzle into below average to nothing yielders. Anyone in the trade would probably say the same thing. Unless the strain or particular plant was previously grown by the individual, it can be a growers crap shoot...
Example: If you have clones from a Blue Dream you personally grew that happened to be a great yielder, IMO, the clones should mimick the Mother. But if some gives you a Blue Dream clone, it may not yield the same or even grow the same as yours or as well as it did for whomever you got it from. Different grow techniques ie; soil quality, feeding schedules, nutrient selection, water quality...SO MANY VARIABLES!
I do know 2 things. Clones generally dont grow as tall as seed plants and the Sativas will almost always be a larger plant than the Indicas. In my case, my Sativas, which are over 4 ft now, would be the only plants I would worry about. And at this point, my Indicas are not that large but again, one just never knows...Thanks for the input dude.. Greatly appreciated CC
No cool rocks found. Just your average, run of the mill, pain in the ass types...LOL
Hey BC...Good, this is the input I'm looking for. I agree, pre-flowereds shouldnt grow as large due to the plant having its normal growth cycle interrupted by having to re-veg. Unfortunately, that means the yield would also be reduced? So, ya end up with a smaller plant which may better fit the hole size but the yield drops. This sounds like one of those: "Six of one, half a dozen of the other..." lol
"culling and starting with fresh vegetative stock" I have the back up clones ready for just such a move, but it would mean blackboxing the bigger plants. As I said in my earlier post, yea, it would take away the pre-flowered/re-veg/low yield possibility, but it would also mean I now have a "black box" to deaL with for 3 to 4 months. I have a couple weeks to sort it out...I know one thing, I dont like the pre-flower back to veg scenario. It is sooo anti-productive all the way around...lol
Yea, Ive increased the lighting period but I think the damage is done. it's either deal with it's effects or call up the new clones...Thanks for your time bro! CC
Manitoid
Member
in my grow last year, I put clone sized plants out near end of may. Some did the single leaf reveg dance and some didnt.
from clone sized plants in may... indicas ended smallest. I did have some of the clones that revegged go to just about 3lbs...
I had clone sized plants that did not reveg grow out to almost 5 lbs
I would SERIOUSLY consider using the backups in the holes. They will still be large. and since you "didnt want to go too big" you will be very happy with the results.
My clone size when going out plants last year were 4-7 ft globes of fat colas.
Last year I saw a clone day out in 200g holes make almost 5 lbs...
this year i have 4 ft bushes to put out in 3-400 gallon holes... Id like a 5lb average.
Ya know it's funny Mani...I always get sort of annoyed and bored with the "over-thinker" threads. As I read over my last few posts I realize I'm beginning to sound like one myself. lol "What if I do this?" "What if I dont do that?"
It is my strong belief that reading too much stuff on this site can give you a case of growers vapor lock. In the end, ya just gotta go out and do it and not get all caught up worrying about the 'ifs". My grandpa used to have a saying: "Dont worry 'bout the mule, just load the wagon..." I reckon that's just what I'll do. Right now, all I know is come June first, by God, something is going in the ground.
Thanks for all your input bud. Personally, I think all my plants will do OK, just like yours did and if they dont, there's alway next season...Kinda like baseball...lol CC
True words.
Specially outdoors you just gotta do it...and learn. I´m still learning from Mother Nature
P
Hey P...hope all goes well in your world! True words my friend, true words. Me too, I'm still learning. When we stop learning, it's a sure sign of thinkin youre a know-it-all...lol
Ya know, I think we all want our hard work to be justified by healthy plants and glorious yields. So we look for edges and guarantees. But what it comes down to is neither really exists. Give it your best, do it in earnest and from the heart. The rest will take care of itself...Hell, farmers have been doin it for 1000's of years...Thanks for the visit and the good words! CC
Am i the only one who thinks the holes will do just fine? sorry to post a pic in your thread CC but i want people to understand that large outdoor plants can be in some surprisingly small containers.
this is not my grow but i followed the entire thing and can say he did a great yield from pots that may even be smaller than your holes.
this is not my grow but i followed the entire thing and can say he did a great yield from pots that may even be smaller than your holes.
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