A question for breeding experts.

[HempKat]

No, you ruined it when you first called me a condescending asshole.
And don't try again...not with me anyway.

You gave us a nice short answer here about feminized seeds, yet that is not the way you handled it in your little help thread. And that little tussle about fem seeds is what has your drawers in a wad.
Don't play off as if I was attacking anyone that didn't attack me.
You went on the attack when I said they were far more than gimmicks. It seemed like you could poopoo any scenario anyone could come up with to show their worth.
I know you tried to post up your proof of me being the only one on the attack, but what you provided was simply you misinterpreting things. I simply put it off to a lack of comprehension on your part.
(kinda like here)
Besides, I know what the score is...you don't even want to see the scoreboard.

303hydro...when was the last time you got high from flavor and aroma?
You know, DJ is a fine guy and a respected breeder, but he has some whacky ideas. I mean, the guy keeps his lighting schedule a trade secret.
And I don't really think there is much to back up his theory about what passes on what.
It comes from a respected person in the industry, so it has to be given consideration, but it has hardly been shown a valid breeding scheme.
Besides...take a good look at what he wrote

The females decide what the smell is, and the males decide how much of that smell there is? I'm sorry, but DJ must have been tripping on that one.
na whum sayin yo

You are a condescending asshole though, every post you've made in this thread has been with the attitude that you are better then most people here. Hell just your presence here in this thread is condescending because you've yet to establish yourself as an expert on anything but being ignorant.

As for the feminized discussion hell I don't need to debate it with you I'll just post the proof from the thread

This was the start where the question was asked, the ball breaking he refers to turned out to be you in another thread. This was post #3497 on page 234 of the Wanna Ask thread and it was posted on 9-7-2010

I hate to bring up a touchy subject but would like to know what you Hempkat(and Billy) think about feminized? Over 10yrs ago I worked at a cannabis club in SF'S(Denis Perons) when feminized first started becoming available. Almost all the growers trying them had herm probs and it was rare to see any experienced growers buying them. Now many years later, as more and more breeders are starting to offer them, has anything changed?

But if the topic has already been covered in the thread, Sorry. It just seems that any1 posting neg experiences (dont like them) gets a serious "ball breaking" from many! I dont hate fem's but dont suggest 'em either. Have good breeders figured out the problem w/intersex trait appearing due to stressfull environment?

I grow a seedcrop every winter that is then grown outdoors during summer. Use clones too, but I dont have the time to keep an eye for nanners, males are easy enough to spot in time to pull but like I said cant spend the time needed for finding hidden herms.

This was my reply to his question, post #3499 also on page 234 and made on 9-8-2010

Well I do know alot of people dislike feminized and I heard the stories about all the hermie issues when they first hit the market. I think things have improved greatly but there's a bottomline. To make feminized seed you got to introduce the hermie gene whether by stressing the plant naturally or thru the use of gibberellic acid to stress the plant artificially you're still introducing that hermie potential into the gene pool. So there will always be that potential for nanners, you can't escape it.

That being said as I understand it they're doing a better job of selecting stress resistent candidates for the breeding which means that unless you run a very stressful grow you shouldn't see the nanners. I myself have only grown one feminized strain, C-99 Feminized from www.femaleseeds.nl. It grew out fine, no problems although I did see some hermie growth starting to develope but not until the plants were well beyond harvest. There was alot of small lower growth so when I harvested the big buds that were ready I let the lower halves go a few more weeks to fatten those buds up. It was in that lower growth were I saw the hermie growth start to form. Of course that was after the stress of hacking off the top half of the plant and then letting the plant go 3 weeks longer then normal. Fortunately I harvested the rest long before any seeds resulted.

It's an odd thing about feminized they seem like a good solution for a beginner but you really need to be an experienced grower to avoid the pitfalls. If you're an experienced grower though then you really don't need the help feminized seed gives you. If you run a stress free grow and know what conditions promote females from normal seeds you can have a very high female to male ratio. Most experienced growers though don't work from seed for flowering. They grow the strain until it sexes, select a few choice candidates for mothers and then work from clones. That way you still have the assurance of all females in your crop but with a much lower risk of hermies.

Now here is your first post on the topic, post #3550 on page 237 made 11 days later on 9-19-2010. This is the same post I've quoted before. Not to prove you were the only one on the attack but rather to prove you came in starting the attack. Of course others are going to be on the attack after you come in and insult them straight off the bat.

I would like to enter in my two cents here if it's OK.
Many of the arguments I see laid out here against the use of feminized seeds seem to be hinged on the preferences and habits of the person arguing against them, as well as their pre-conceived notions. Not much is actually being discussed about what fem seeds really are.

Arguments have been made that perhaps a person is just lazy and doesn't want to wait until preflowers show. Well, what about the person who grows a whole box or tent full of plants 12/12 from seed? Would fem seeds not be a good thing for them to use?

And what about the field grower? Fem seeds allows a grower to place his plants out in the field, and then come back in the fall to all female plants. He didn't have to make a second (most likely two or three more trips) to get males culled out of his patch.
Oh sure, many may argue he should be using a clone tree or some other method. But that is going back to YOUR preference.

There are lots of good reasons to use fem seeds. And unless someone could show that they were inferior to regular bred seeds then the above arguments are similar to arguing what the best colored containers are.

And many will pop right up and state they can show them inferior. But I would challenge them to prove it. Seems many think that just their thoughts on the matter is proof enough. Heck, some people have had huge rocks thrown at them in this thread for simply stating their opinion and a few facts. Rocks thrown by those who really have no real clues as to what they are talking about. More akin to a kids group, than a group of adults offering sage advise.

Instead of relying on opinion central for all your info, try actually studying the issue for a change. Those who have actually studied the horticulture and genetics of breeding tend to understand these things, and those who haven't make it painfully obvious by their words in these threads.

I won't go deep into it here, but I can tell you for certainty that fem seeds have a great worth in the breeding world, besides the worth they present to the growers.
Fem seeds is a great tool for the professional breeders. Breeders who actually understand the science behind feminized seeds and know it's worth. The breeders also know why you folks fight and argue about the issue too. They know exactly why. But to try and convince some of you is like hitting a brick wall. Even worse in many instances, as many a good person has been trampled by the mean words of the blatantly ignorant.

Just like blazeoneup seeing a great consistency in his plants from fem seeds. There is a good reason for that. And if you folks would actually put on your study caps, instead of continuing to pass on bad info and basic hearsay, then you too would know why he experienced the consistency in the plants that were grown from fem seeds.

Some of you smart old folks try it for yourself if the physical and holdable is all you can really handle. Grow out the regular stock of a reputable breeder and along side of that grow their feminized offering of the same strain. I can almost guarantee you that you will see more consistency in the fem plants, and for good reason too. It is just that you folks don't seem to have info concerning the why's and why not's. It seems everything is based on your opinions and speculation.

To simply state that evolution is the reason we shouldn't use fem seeds is a ridiculous statement to make. It shows me that this person really is just typing and not putting forth much effort to actually type something of worth. Thing is, they are correct in that evolution is key, but they seem to not have any knowledge past that. People that actually know about the genetics of cannabis breeding can show you exactly why and how evolution comes into play. You people throwing these baseless charges out can't even explain what you really mean, let alone the real truth of the issue.
And not knowing what you are talking about hardly gives your the right to throw bad words and baseless charges at others who actually have taken the time to study the subject.

I have seen lots of good info coming out of this thread, and if Hempkat can't answer most likely another older member can.
But when it comes to this issue, it seems to have taken the shape of the other threads that either get shut down, or they fade away into the dust because folks are tired of wasting their good thoughts on the blatantly ignorant. It is especially disheartening to see the dumbass charge get thrown out by dumbasses.
Of any place on this board I would like to see wise up, it would be this one. I have respect for us old guys and the experience we can offer up to young and new growers. But when the knowledge turns into the typical ignorant bullshit, it is a big disappointing bummer.

I do however have every faith that if the truth is ever to be put out there, it would come from an old cats thread. Please help my optimism to be fruitful. Don't let me down and continue on an ignorant path that any kids could take.

FWIW I am a grower that is past 50 years in age, and have been smoking pot since 1972 and growing it nearly as long.

Then here's Billy's post, post #3551 on page 237. Apparently Stagger Lee was not the only one you attacked in pm's before you even entered the discussion.

lol guys been sending me neasty PM's and now he finally posts the great white hope for the fem seed maybe my "scientific data's" wrong but that never trumps personal expierence and if you run your life based off this kinda madness i can only imagine over 50 tons of cats maybe a trailer iole lady left many moons ago only pussy you can keep around so can't fight with that so you insist on arguing with people in PM until they shoo you away
ahhhhhh!!!! classic now all ya need i a yohoo stain on your shirt and spaghettios for chow

preaching to the choir here i call them lazy and i gave you a solid fail proof way to keep your security in tact and not have to roll the dice with these beans weather they're going to preform like they claim and if you just chuck seeds out there and end up with males in a reg seed pack well i'd say thats your own stupidity anyone i know that grows outdoor starts everything indoors have a nice day

Then there is post 3576 where you continue your vitriolic attack on Billy Borroughs.

Your take on things is very naive and simple. Yes, we can manipulate nature to some extent. I suggest searching the term "selective breeding". Breeders aren't just throwing two plants together, rubbing a juju bag, and calling it good. No, there is a very specific process that involves choosing parent plants that display the desired characteristics. Characteristics such as the expression of the interesex gene.
I would ask you to expand on what you mean by true females is bull? I get the impression that you really don't grasp the whole concept to begin with here.

For an example, you have mentioned on several occasions that you refuse to grow a plant that has been stressed. Well, I can already tell you that you DO grow plants that are being stressed by YOU.
You simply growing the plant in a different medium than another is a stress. Your nutes can be a stresser. As can your water and humidity levels. So, yes you grow things that are being stressed.
And when it comes to the "stressing" of a female, it would help if you actually knew what it took to cause a female to show male stamen. When a female plant is treated, there are different ways to go about it. One is to introduce gerbbilic(sp) acid. This is something that the plant already produces. We are simply adding more. The plant would have produced enough of it on it's own had the genetic map held the intersex gene in dominance.

Another method is to introduce silver ions. And all this does is physically block pathways that funnel ethylene through the plant. Ethylene is another substance that the plant produces naturally, and it is essential to the production of female flowers. The silver that we introduce blocks the ethylene pathways therefore allowing the otherwise recessive intersex gene to express itself and produce male stamen.

I would submit that simply letting a plant get low on water, to where it is at the droop stage, is far more stress than that of manipulating the hormone and auxin pathways.
If you have never had a plant in soil get low on water, then perhaps you haven't grown enough pot? (thought I'd play that game too, others seem to like it)


You have not been getting any more messages from me private or otherwise. Don't even go there, pal. You can no longer ride the sympathy train on that, which is what you are fishing for.

See, you're hardly the innocent misunderstood victim you want people to think you are.

 

[HempKat]

sup hempkat - F*$k da haters - na um saying?


thought you might like this paragraph taken from a DJ short article called " the art of selection and breeding fine cannabis ".....

I have never met a bad ass grower/ p chucker who didn't have the utmost respect for DJ Short. He has written tons and tons on breeding , its 3 days worth of google time.


"
I usually begin with a Sativa female and an Indica male. It has been my observation that the females primarily contribute the type of flavor and aroma and the males contribute the amount of flavor and odor. The "Sativa/Indica" aspects of this formula are mainly apparent in the P1 or very early filial crosses (to about f3). Beyond the f3 generation the apparent "Sativa/Indica" ratio in a given individual is less important than the odor/flavor and trichome development aspects it exhibits. Therefore, one of the main aspects to consider when selecting a male is the depth of its aroma and flavor. (If you are seeking to develop a low-odor indoor strain you might wish to begin with a low-odor Sativa male and an Indica female.) "

.....and btw tom hill is the man. that deep chunk is really really something special......

I appreciate that but it's already been referenced and the concensus here seems to be that there is no merit to what DJ Short is suggesting. I don't know if that's true or not, I've never met the man. I did grow out a cross I was told came from him and it did yield a crop loaded with hermies though. The bud was good but the hermies ruined things with the seeds it caused. I'm not sure I can attribute that to him though as it was just hearsay that the cross came from him.

 

[Classic Seeds]

male or female pick those that have the traits you most desire a good male is parimount to good hybrids look at flower size ,density of flowers ,smell ,any trics internode lenghts ,leaf formations any deformaties and try spreading some of the pollen from several males on different limbs of same female plant or plants and label them keep a log of what was what and it primary charactoristics you will learn a lot more that way from this exsperience in breeding

 

[Baba Ku]

If a breeder is making a cross from a Mexican Sativa and a Afghani Kush what influences the breeder to decide to make the Mexican Sativa the female and make the Afghani Kush the Male?

Do you see how that is completely different from asking what traits the female brings to the cross and which traits the male brings?

You simply don't realize how stupid that is, do you?

It is obvious that you really have no fucking idea...not the first fucking clue what people have been telling you. You just don't get the concept.
We select for traits...or maybe you know something we select for in a plant besides the traits the plant expresses? A magic aura??? Wait..would that be a trait?
Perhaps we select for...aaaa.,..hmmm....please tell us somthing besides trats that we could possibly selec for. einie meenie minie mo? (good grief)

And you dredging up old shit in an attempt to justify your shit is childish.
Accept the fact that you have no fucking idea, and really don't want to learn anything, and move the fuck on. You took waht was said out of context anyway.. sometimes thinkin it was you being typed to, yet it was one of your degenerate friends. (you have a bad habit of thinking you are the only one in your thread being addressed, even when someone else has fully answered the questions(s). And even when the parties involved are not even considering you at all...and into another discussion. Really it should have been "Want to ask one old fart questions?" Instead of old farts in the plural. Hell, clear answers will have been given, when you pop in and say exactly the same thing as if it weren't already stated exactly that way.
Rude if nothing else, because I am sure you read every word of every post prior to replying.)

I'd be willing to wager lots that many have taken away some real good info from this thread, and even more of a wager that you have learned nothing at all...nor will you.
Nor do you want to learn anything.
What you wanted to know is as silly and newbie as it gets...why don't you listen to the way things are and then work from there? I'll tell you why...because you have no fucking intentions of putting in any work.

And how the fuck would someone like you know who was an expert and who wasn't?

lol,,,,get a grip, rawhide.


WAIT...I just thought of it...we could select for NAMES! Yeah that's it...names!
We could use a very mexicalli name for one and a very ariabic name for the other...then mix em up. Should I use both a female mexican sativa and a male mexican sativa if I want to name the line "Jose Quervo"?

I'm not asking about traits..I am asking about how to choose parent plants.
(good fuckin grief)

 

[Vinyl Junkie]

Somone must have mentioned this by now but i dont have the time to read 10 pages so...i could well be wrong but doesnt the mother pass on the bulk of the genes to a x?So which ever plant has the most positive traits would be up for selection as a mum??

For example a pal of mine used a haze male that turned out not to be dominant in most traits so was a good candidate to use on a clone with traits he wanted to preserve.

Really depneds on the strains you would like to x at the end of the day i think,anyway,all the best with it and hope you get what your after.

 

[HempKat]

It has been my observation that in a successful cross, the (usually female) sativa contributes the type of aroma and flavour, while the (usually male) indica contributes the amount of aroma and flavour to the prodigy. So far this observation has proven fruitful."

I appreciate the full paragraph as that explained more then just the one line that has been focused on here. However I would point something out. Is DJ Short really saying these qualities are attributable to the male and female or is he saying it's more attributable to sativas and indicas? The sex is refered to as "usually" which I take to mean most of the time but not exclusively. Therefore it would be whether it was sativa or indica that was the constant not whether it was female or male. At least that's what I get from how it's worded.

 

[HempKat]

You simply don't realize how stupid that is, do you?

It is obvious that you really have no fucking idea...not the first fucking clue what people have been telling you. You just don't get the concept.
We select for traits...or maybe you know something we select for in a plant besides the traits the plant expresses? A magic aura??? Wait..would that be a trait?
Perhaps we select for...aaaa.,..hmmm....please tell us somthing besides trats that we could possibly selec for. einie meenie minie mo? (good grief)

And you dredging up old shit in an attempt to justify your shit is childish.
Accept the fact that you have no fucking idea, and really don't want to learn anything, and move the fuck on. You took waht was said out of context anyway.. sometimes thinkin it was you being typed to, yet it was one of your degenerate friends. (you have a bad habit of thinking you are the only one in your thread being addressed, even when someone else has fully answered the questions(s). And even when the parties involved are not even considering you at all...and into another discussion. Really it should have been "Want to ask one old fart questions?" Instead of old farts in the plural. Hell, clear answers will have been given, when you pop in and say exactly the same thing as if it weren't already stated exactly that way.
Rude if nothing else, because I am sure you read every word of every post prior to replying.)

I'd be willing to wager lots that many have taken away some real good info from this thread, and even more of a wager that you have learned nothing at all...nor will you.
Nor do you want to learn anything.
What you wanted to know is as silly and newbie as it gets...why don't you listen to the way things are and then work from there? I'll tell you why...because you have no fucking intentions of putting in any work.

And how the fuck would someone like you know who was an expert and who wasn't?

lol,,,,get a grip, rawhide.


WAIT...I just thought of it...we could select for NAMES! Yeah that's it...names!
We could use a very mexicalli name for one and a very ariabic name for the other...then mix em up. Should I use both a female mexican sativa and a male mexican sativa if I want to name the line "Jose Quervo"?

I'm not asking about traits..I am asking about how to choose parent plants.
(good fuckin grief)

First of all you gibbering dipshit, you move the fuck on, this is my thread you pompous ass you don't like what's here then get the fuck out, it's clear you have no interest in helping.

As for how stupid that example was, ask Tom, it was his example. I figure since you seem okay with him you might grasp the question if I used his example. Apparently though, you're so fucking stupid you have to concentrate just to breath and so these more complicated things of words strung together seem to be difficult for you. So it was foolish of me to think that you might grasp the concept of once you've gotten paste the point of picking for your traits and have determine what strains P1 and P2 will be what makes you choose one strain over the other for female and the other to be male.

I mean even people coming in and not reading the whole thread get the question and try to answer it, but no you just can't wrap your head around anything other then the selection of traits. What a fucking one dimensional dimwit you are. Perhaps if I asked how do I get the flavor of one strain to blend with the flavor of another strain and yet keep it's plant structure but inherit the other strain's flowering time? Then maybe all your talk of growing out all these different plants and carefully selecting them might have some bearing. You're such a fucking goober though that you can't see that I'm asking either before that point or after that point depending on how you look at it. Once they've determined the strains what makes a breeder decide which one will be the male and which one will be the female. You shouldn't even be answering though, you're not a breeder, you're not even an expert, at best you're no better then any average grower here, and that's giving you the benefit of doubt just because of how long you claim to have been growing.

 

[HempKat]

Somone must have mentioned this by now but i dont have the time to read 10 pages so...i could well be wrong but doesnt the mother pass on the bulk of the genes to a x?So which ever plant has the most positive traits would be up for selection as a mum??

For example a pal of mine used a haze male that turned out not to be dominant in most traits so was a good candidate to use on a clone with traits he wanted to preserve.

Really depneds on the strains you would like to x at the end of the day i think,anyway,all the best with it and hope you get what your after.

No nobody has really said that, not in the way you stated anyway. Tom suggested something that sounded very much like that but when I tried to recap it to see if I understood he said that wasn't what he was saying. Most of the other comments have been more along the lines of it not mattering which strain in a cross is male and which female. In fact Baba Ku here seems to believe that is the most foolish and newb like question anyone could ask.

I wasn't after anything in particular other then which strain to make the mother in a cross and which to make the father. If you are correct in what you're saying though then I got what I wanted, an answer to my question. That answer being the one showing the most favorable traits should be the mother. See how simple that was Baba Ku?

 

[The iD]

i think i understand. you are asking what motivates the grower/breeder to choose particular varieties as P1, like why choose to produce a Haze/Affy instead of a bb/NL, or vice versa, and whether one particular variety being a male or female would produce better progeny, such as haze x affy instead of affy x haze. is this correct?

if so, i would say that much of it comes down to resources, followed by personal preference. you cant grow a plant/variety if it is unavailable to you, so this would be the first limiting factor. commercial breeders typically have slightly different goals than personal breeders, as they must also produce a product that is marketable and has demand, while a personal breeder only has themselves to please. one should grow/breed what one deems most suitable to achieve their goals, imo.

"improvement" is the name of the game in a hybrid breeding scheme, imo. trying to produce progeny w/ a combination of (favorable) traits unlike those in any of the P1 N populations. you cant get out what you didnt put in.

i use (among others) a hybrid scheme w/ single known P1 for progeny testing. so information/data motivates me frequently.

money is a hell of a motivator. not hard for some people to profit off chucking Some Name x Some Kush impo.

as to whether if one variety or cultivar being chosen male/female is more advantageous than it's countersex, it basically matters none, but could technically matter much, since a particular P1, or group of P1 if not 1:1, be it male or female, that reliably and consistantly provides positive traits to it's offspring COULD be more advantageous than a selection from the same variety of the opposite sex. w/o a clear plan and goal it is difficult at best to explain as to how to proceed.

i typically look for exceptional plants, and they just happen to be either male or female. i let the plants decide, i guess. what i use for each changes often, as my goals change &/or are modified.

if my hand was to be forced and i had to make a 1:1 hyb w/ unknown P1 (no progeny testing) w/ the goal of producing the "best" F1s as possible, i would most likely use reversal on an exceptional female "clone-only" cultivar and dust another female clone. but i would also dust a clone of the reversed to record traits in S1 progeny. i like multitasking hell, hit up all my keepers and let the progeny battle it out under the spotlights.

if reversal was not an option, i would use the most stable IBL, such as SK1 or NL5, that displayed the traits that i desire for a male P1, and would hit an exceptional female cultivar. if i could, i would hit multiple female cultivars w/ the same P1 male and record traits. bring to f2, record. and always Bx'ing (BC'ing) and recording.

if not confined to a 1:1 scheme, but given the ability to perform a 1:x scheme, i would choose as many males as possible that meet my criteria. generally, my criteria is removing/replacing negative traits, as opposed to identifying and passing on positive traits, so any plants displaying negative traits are culled, instead of only keeping plants w/ positive traits. i find this increases my Ne pop, and since ~half of the genome is masked, and that 1/2 is unknown, be it negative or positive, i SHOULD statistically be passing on more positive traits, while minimizing the amount of negative traits passed on in progeny. this is more important in male selection imo, as the bulk of female traits are masked.

if not confined to any limits in either of the P1, i would use as many as possible of each variety, unless the data suggested otherwise. one variety being male or female matters little if specifics arent known.

so, w/ cultivar A x cultivar B, it would matter little to none which is male or female, A/B is the same as B/A, generally. if we are going to be so vague we shouldnt be able to split hairs ~autosomal traits, cytoplasmic inheritance, etc.

but if cultivar A was my A13, and cultivar B was my Lavender F4L1, i would certainly want the Lav to be the father(s) since their N pop are more set in favorable traits, and i am generally more familiar w/ how they are passed on in their progeny, which should increase the likelyhood of those traits being passed on. but if cultivar B was a random pack of some poly, then it prolly matters little, or the data might lead me to the reverse; that a/some male A13 would be more appropriate to use and knock up the poly ladies.

could make this answer really easy and just say use both sexes from both varieties, wide as possible, preferably controlled imo. :lol: hey, i just said it. and that way you can SEE that it matters little, unless of course you misconstrue the data or your population size skews it in any way. data is only as good as the method it is analyzed. thats why so many blame a process instead of the selection.

and go to F2, thats where the fun really starts and the bulk of selection begins imo. gl and stay frosty,

-iD

edit: here, i can make it easy. many folks keep cuts of "keepers" that they deem worthy to run again. you might as well. there ya go, just made some female P1 selection. you gave the example that you wanted to try godbud but only got a male. there ya go, you made a male P1 selection and you got some motivation and goal. lets try to smoke some godbud

i would knock up all my female cuts w/ cuts of godbud. if i was limited in the number of females i could pollinate i would try to pick the female(s) that i believe will throw the most recessive traits from my notes and experience w/ them. i want godbud dominant progeny. take notes of both females and male. pics are good too. then grow out a good number of the most likely F1s. 128 is my minimum. start where you believe you will attain the most success. initial cull can happen soon, based on structure, leaf shape, smell, etc. work away from the female. cull males if you intend to go no further. bloom females most unlike P1 female, more the better. smoke. hope this helps.

 

[Baba Ku]

See, one needs to have at least a little bit of it on the ball to even be able to asses who might be, or might not be, an expert on any given topic. It is painfully obvious you have no way of assessing this.

ex·pert (kspûrt)
n.
1. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
2. a. The highest grade that can be achieved in marksmanship.
b. A person who has achieved this grade.
adj. (kspûrt, k-spûrt)
Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training. See Synonyms at proficient.

See, I totally and completely fit both noun descriptions. I've even worn a medal recognizing one for years.
And I can demonstrate my skill, and prove my experience.

You can do what....?

Oh..and let me clue you in on something else you seem to be missing....
This is NOT your thread, it is part of this community. So what you started it, many a thread has been started by clueless folks before, only to run a course of great knowledge for young and impressionable growers who are actually concerned with the facts of the game.
Your help thread is in fact not yours either. But like I said before, you need to change that name to help from one old fart. It still won't be yours to tell who to shove off.

Perhaps you disagree?

 

[HempKat]

i think i understand. you are asking what motivates the grower/breeder to choose particular varieties as P1, like why choose to produce a Haze/Affy instead of a bb/NL, or vice versa, and whether one particular variety being a male or female would produce better progeny, such as haze x affy instead of affy x haze. is this correct?

That's mostly correct the only difference being that I'm not asking why the breeder choose to do a Haze/Affy vs a BB/NL. That difference I figure boils down to what the breeder is trying to accomplish.

as to whether if one variety or cultivar being chosen male/female is more advantageous than it's countersex, it basically matters none, but could technically matter much, since a particular P1, or group of P1 if not 1:1, be it male or female, that reliably and consistantly provides positive traits to it's offspring COULD be more advantageous than a selection from the same variety of the opposite sex.

This essentially answers my question and it seems to be pretty much what Tom was saying although he seemed to focus more on the advantage a very stable known strain can provide.

Much of what you suggested isn't workable for me, mainly due to space and resource limitations. For growing out plants where I can give them a fair evaluation of their traits, my plant number is limited to 10 or 20 plants at the most and that's if I'm not running any crops at the time to keep my stash going. So my question wasn't so much of a "this is what I plan on doing" kind of thing but rather was more of "I wonder why they do this?" sort of question.

See I had the Godbud male and then I do have a couple of strains I'm keeping around although they're not so much "keepers" as they're just decent enough for now. I thought about crossing the GodBud with those but the problem is I had no idea of what to expect since I've never smoked or grown GodBud before. That then got me thinking about breeding and it made me wonder why so many crosses have used Skunk #1 or Northern Lights #5 as the male. I figured there had to be some reason and that's all I was really trying to find out. Now that I've been given the answer that for the most part AxB is the same as BxA then I know not to worry about it in any future crosses I make but rather do like you suggest and let the plants decide. This seems especially logical when one can only grow out a few plants.

 

[HempKat]

See, one needs to have at least a little bit of it on the ball to even be able to asses who might be, or might not be, an expert on any given topic. It is painfully obvious you have no way of assessing this.

ex·pert (kspûrt)
n.
1. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
2. a. The highest grade that can be achieved in marksmanship.
b. A person who has achieved this grade.
adj. (kspûrt, k-spûrt)
Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training. See Synonyms at proficient.

See, I totally and completely fit both noun descriptions. I've even worn a medal recognizing one for years.
And I can demonstrate my skill, and prove my experience.

You can do what....?

Oh..and let me clue you in on something else you seem to be missing....
This is NOT your thread, it is part of this community. So what you started it, many a thread has been started by clueless folks before, only to run a course of great knowledge for young and impressionable growers who are actually concerned with the facts of the game.
Your help thread is in fact not yours either. But like I said before, you need to change that name to help from one old fart. It still won't be yours to tell who to shove off.

Perhaps you disagree?

I hope you don't dislocate your arm patting yourself on the back. Sorry self declarations of greatness don't count for shit. I could make all sorts of vague unvarifiable claims that suggest I'm this, that or the other and yet not be this, that or the other.

As for the Wanna Ask thread, well I knew you never really read it, that was clear from the assinine conclusions you draw about the thread. When I say it's my thread, or this is my thread, I don't mean I own it and can dictate who can be in it. Clearly though, as the thread starter of this thread, whose question created the topic and since the topic is still what's being discussed, I have more right/reason to be here then some pompous ass who doesn't even understand the question that makes the topic of the thread.

Also had you ever bothered to actually read everything I say in that thread you would have seen me say countless times that it is not "MY" thread but rather that the thread belongs to new users seeking basic help in a clear easy to understand manner. You would also know that I am not the only Old Fart there dispensing help. At times I have been but that's just my dedication to the thread and it's goal. I'd probably have more help there though if it weren't for assholes like you who have come in there disrespecting peoples opinions and advice. I can't blame them when they leave either. Why should someone stick with something that provides no reward other then the satisfaction of helping others, especially when you got self absorbed ego maniacs like yourself coming in there and pissing all over everyone?

 

[Baba Ku]

First of all you gibbering dipshit, you move the fuck on, this is my thread you pompous ass you don't like what's here then get the fuck out, it's clear you have no interest in helping.

I tell you what...you come out in front of my house and talk to me like that. You think that would work out well for you?
And don't talk to me like a dog then try to justify it saying that you really don't look at things like that, and how helpful you are. Bullshit.

Apparently though, you're so fucking stupid you have to concentrate just to breath and so these more complicated things of words strung together seem to be difficult for you.

Wow, not only do you continue to violate the TOU, you seem to think you are smart enough to assess the wits and worth of others. It's painfully obvious that you have enough trouble following along simple instructions, let alone know who is smart and who isn't.
It is clear to me that you are way too thick for that sort of work. Perhaps work on your word choices? Breath deep, smart man. (sheesh)

So it was foolish of me to think that you might grasp the concept of once you've gotten paste the point of picking for your traits and have determine what strains P1 and P2 will be what makes you choose one strain over the other for female and the other to be male.

I totally and completely understood from the beginning what you were asking. And since it was a simpleton newbie questions I took you a bit further...because what you were asking was really quite novice. And you still don't understand what has been told to you. You simply don't comprehend that the F1 generation does not reflect individual traits. And that you need to go further to get something you want...unless it is the first mix of the hybrid that you desire...and in that instance a kid could figure out take a male of each and a female of each and make two crossings. But that is a bit deep for you I realize. What you also seem to not understand is that selection traits are specific to phenotype and if you have selected for traits, then you already have the sex of the plant displaying the chosen traits. We can't assess the traits displayed by one, and then decide if I want to pick another to pass them on...surely you don't grasp much of this thing called selective breeding?
Who knows, maybe you do think it is all that simple, hence the simpleton responses?
What I should have recognized was that you could give a shit about all this anyway.

I mean even people coming in and not reading the whole thread get the question and try to answer it, but no you just can't wrap your head around anything other then the selection of traits. What a fucking one dimensional dimwit you are.

Again, I like how you call me names all the time....I would gladly show you my appreciation for your nasty tongue if only we could be face to face. I'm sure you talk to people like that in person...especially the dimwits that you don't like. Yes?

Perhaps if I asked how do I get the flavor of one strain to blend with the flavor of another strain and yet keep it's plant structure but inherit the other strain's flowering time? Then maybe all your talk of growing out all these different plants and carefully selecting them might have some bearing. You're such a fucking goober though that you can't see that I'm asking either before that point or after that point depending on how you look at it. Once they've determined the strains what makes a breeder decide which one will be the male and which one will be the female. You shouldn't even be answering though, you're not a breeder, you're not even an expert, at best you're no better then any average grower here, and that's giving you the benefit of doubt just because of how long you claim to have been growing.

Here you are calling more names and violating the TOU before you can draw in another raspy breath. And then proceed to downgrade me.
I am far more than you will even know...or be, old man.
See, a person like you throws stones at another..telling them how stupid they are and that they are no expert at all, or even qualified to respond. And then when they defend themselves, you try to ridicule that.

No, you got a fucking problem old man. And it aint me.
And you for SURE don't have even half enough on the ball to know who is and who isn't in the canna community.
You can't even comprehend the most simple of breeding concepts, how do you figure you can assess others?
And just who the fuck left you in charge do be assessing?
You don't like my answers....then put me on ignore you ignorant git. Have you not figured out how to use that function?

I'd like to buy a dozen of you for what you are worth, and sell them for what you think they are worth. I'd be rich. Of course that would be until they realized that all they had was a stinkin, nasty tempered old hide that really isn't worth much, and they decide they want their money back.

I'll probably get chastised for defending myself here. It always happens...but I would suggest folks go back and see just where all the name calling and violations are. They are numerous and often.
Just in the last post alone is far more than many have been booted out for already. Some seem to get past those rules...
lol...and they lay it on thicker and heavier since they see they aren't gong to get booted.
Perhaps these folks think they can just talk to anyone any way they please?
Shit don't go down like that where I come from...even with people you can't stand. But of course you know this..and it doesn't go down like that where you are either. You are simply taking advantage of hiding behind your chicken shit computer screen and hollering out asshole. Good on ya, mate. Such a manly individual.

 

[numberguy]

There is no one definitive answer to the question, as each will have his own criteria gained from experience. But the one thing no one has said yet is timing. The plants timing must produce seeds or all is naught. If the male drops his pollen when there is no female flowers to pollinate all is for nothing, if he delays till the female is too far along the chances for success diminish. Barring all else a potent male gets the top spot.

 

[inquest]

Hemp, if I had only males of a strain I'd like to try I would do four things:

Determine my favorite traits from the description of Godbud, Satori, etc.
Select females that most closely match this.
Mate and grow out.
Select females that display what I'm after, and enjoy!

You could even repeat this once or twice and hopefully tease more traits into the individuals. Or if ya find a keeper first try, clone the hell out of it!!
But definitely select, based on the strain description.

 

[HempKat]

I tell you what...you come out in front of my house and talk to me like that. You think that would work out well for you?
And don't talk to me like a dog then try to justify it saying that you really don't look at things like that, and how helpful you are. Bullshit.

Yo Braniac, here's an idea for you, how about if you don't want people calling you a pompous ass you don't go around calling them fucking idiots. If you look over your history with me in an objective manner you'll find that you were the first to start with the name calling and making insulting assumptions. What goes around comes around and I give as good as I get. As for you veiled threat, well not only does it show just how pathetic you are (willing to resort to violence just because someone calls you a pompous ass) it's also based on your likely wrong assumption of who I am. What are you some big bad ass biker? So? That wouldn't intimidate me.

Wow, not only do you continue to violate the TOU, you seem to think you are smart enough to assess the wits and worth of others. It's painfully obvious that you have enough trouble following along simple instructions, let alone know who is smart and who isn't.
It is clear to me that you are way too thick for that sort of work. Perhaps work on your word choices? Breath deep, smart man. (sheesh)

Said the person making veiled threats of violence. First of all pinhead, if someone tells you they think you're a clueless idiot it's not a violation of the TOU to tell them you think they are a pompus ass. Threats are however a violation of TOU although I'd probably have to pursue it with the mods which I'm not inclined to do over a weak threat from someone I'll likely never meet. Before you go around accusing people of being thick and not able to comprehend things you should make sure you're not the one failing to comprehend things?

I totally and completely understood from the beginning what you were asking. And since it was a simpleton newbie questions I took you a bit further...because what you were asking was really quite novice.

So what that it's a novice question? I never claimed to be an expert on breeding. I asked a novice question on breeding because when it comes to breeding I do consider myself a novice. I mean hell any moron with a couple of braincells to rub together could have figured that out from my intial post before I reworded it where I said I'm not a breeder nor am I looking to become one. Hell just the title alone suggests I'm a novice by asking for breeding experts to answer. Apparently though you're just too thick to draw simple obvious conclusions like that? The fact that you felt it too novice to just answer straight up without alot of additional detail that was irrelevent to what I was asking, is also further evidence of your pompous arrogant nature.

And you still don't understand what has been told to you. You simply don't comprehend that the F1 generation does not reflect individual traits. And that you need to go further to get something you want...unless it is the first mix of the hybrid that you desire...and in that instance a kid could figure out take a male of each and a female of each and make two crossings. But that is a bit deep for you I realize. What you also seem to not understand is that selection traits are specific to phenotype and if you have selected for traits, then you already have the sex of the plant displaying the chosen traits. We can't assess the traits displayed by one, and then decide if I want to pick another to pass them on...surely you don't grasp much of this thing called selective breeding?

Another example of your pompous arrogant nature is your assumption I don't understand all that other stuff you added into your answer. I do understand all that but again, I'm never going to be going to that stage. So what's they point in talking about aspects that don't really relate to the question. I never asked how do you get to a final, stable cross when you make a cross. I asked what factors if any influnce the breeders choice in which one is the female and which one the male. This whole discussion you want to keep going on about is mainly because of someone's answer to my question, where they mentioned what DJ Short believes. I never said anything like how do I increase smell or flavor or obtain a particular smell or flavor. Had I done so then perhaps all your discussion of selecting traits and what not would have bearing. Again though you are too thick to see it though, rather you sit here and keep insisting there are no factors that influence the choice of which is male and which is female, even though several, who actually are breeding experts, have clearly stated that there are circumstances where it does matter.

Who knows, maybe you do think it is all that simple, hence the simpleton responses?
What I should have recognized was that you could give a shit about all this anyway.

Yes, you should have recognized that by my saying in my intial unedited post, "I'm not planning on breeding or trying to get to a particular stabilzed cross to pass on to others", that discussion of how to do just that would not be something I was interested in.

Again, I like how you call me names all the time....I would gladly show you my appreciation for your nasty tongue if only we could be face to face. I'm sure you talk to people like that in person...especially the dimwits that you don't like. Yes?

Well no, actually in person people aren't as rude to me as you have been here so I seldom have a need to be rude back to them like I have been to you. You don't want me calling you names then the simple solution is to stop calling me names, also stopping with the veiled threats wouldn't hurt.

Here you are calling more names and violating the TOU before you can draw in another raspy breath. And then proceed to downgrade me.
I am far more than you will even know...or be, old man.
See, a person like you throws stones at another..telling them how stupid they are and that they are no expert at all, or even qualified to respond. And then when they defend themselves, you try to ridicule that.

Again moron when someone calls you names and treats you rudely it is not a violation of the TOU to return the favor. I tell you you aren't qualified and are not an expert because in everything you've said here and in other threads, I've yet to see you show any serious, expert level of understanding of anything. Just saying you're an expert and that you have medals to prove it is meaningless. You're not saying what medals you have, how they were awarded and what they were awarded for. For all I know it's nothing more then a token medal from some contest so that everyone walks away feeling like a winner. If you want to site things like that then you need to provide enough information where these things can be varified independently rather then people just having to take your word on what an expert you are. As for all that other stuff about how much greater you are then I'll ever be. Like I told you before, you don't know me, you've never met me and given how much of an ass you are that's never going to change. Especially now I know you're so immature as to want to pursue violence because someone called you a name back when you called them names. Yeah you're real great there Baba Ku, a great, big, immature, moronic, baby.

No, you got a fucking problem old man. And it aint me.
And you for SURE don't have even half enough on the ball to know who is and who isn't in the canna community.
You can't even comprehend the most simple of breeding concepts, how do you figure you can assess others?

The only problem I got is when I'm trying to get a simple straight forward answer to a simple strait forward question there's always some jerk like you that has to try and cloud and complicate the answers with irrelevent info. Presumably only having the goal of trying to impress others with how much he thinks he knows. Afterall it is completely fitting with your arrogant pompous nature that you would attmpt to answer a question for breeding experts when clearly you aren't one. See thinking you're one and being one are two different things. It's a shame really that your inflated self worth prevents you from recognizing that. You probably wouldn't be a half bad person to know if you had a little humility.

And just who the fuck left you in charge do be assessing?
You don't like my answers....then put me on ignore you ignorant git. Have you not figured out how to use that function?

I'm the person asking the question fool and since I directed the question to breeding experts, I get to decide who I will and won't recognize as an expert. Real breeding experts are fairly easy to recognize, you didn't see me challenging Tom's credentials did you? AS for how I repond to you, nope sorry I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. I typically don't resort to ignore until a person has proven so pathetic they'll keep going on and on and on about the same thing for a few months and it's become clear nothing will change. See I'm still holding out the hope for you that one day you might wake up and actually get a clue.

I'd like to buy a dozen of you for what you are worth, and sell them for what you think they are worth. I'd be rich. Of course that would be until they realized that all they had was a stinkin, nasty tempered old hide that really isn't worth much, and they decide they want their money back.

Hey I'm not the one going around claiming to be some expert when I'm not or bragging about medals and shit. I'm not the one telling people he has no clue about that I'm better then they'll ever be. If you had understanding and clue one about me you would know that I'm a very modest person and am always downplaying compliments. Hell my title says it all "Just a simple dirt farmer"

I'll probably get chastised for defending myself here. It always happens...but I would suggest folks go back and see just where all the name calling and violations are. They are numerous and often.
Just in the last post alone is far more than many have been booted out for already. Some seem to get past those rules...
lol...and they lay it on thicker and heavier since they see they aren't gong to get booted.
Perhaps these folks think they can just talk to anyone any way they please?
Shit don't go down like that where I come from...even with people you can't stand. But of course you know this..and it doesn't go down like that where you are either. You are simply taking advantage of hiding behind your chicken shit computer screen and hollering out asshole. Good on ya, mate. Such a manly individual.

If you get chastised (slap on the wrist) it'll be because you were the one treading dangerously close to violating TOU. You seem to think I have some special deal here where I can do things others can't. That's simply not true. What is true is you don't understand the TOU and you fail to see where you were the one to start the rude insulting behavior. I guess you think it's okay to call somone an idiot but wrong to say they are an asshole because ass is a "dirty" word?

 

[HempKat]

Hemp, if I had only males of a strain I'd like to try I would do four things:

Determine my favorite traits from the description of Godbud, Satori, etc.
Select females that most closely match this.
Mate and grow out.
Select females that display what I'm after, and enjoy!

You could even repeat this once or twice and hopefully tease more traits into the individuals. Or if ya find a keeper first try, clone the hell out of it!!
But definitely select, based on the strain description.

Well that would be easier if I had found more good information on GodBud at the time I had that male around still. All I had to go on was that it was a decent strain with a citris like smell that grew in a way well suited for SOG. Which actually came from a different breeder's description of his version of GodBud. What I had was from someone who Gypsy got them from thru Seed Bay and I couldn't find anyone reporting on that specifc breeder's strain.

Again though that was just an example and I mentioned it more to describe how I got to wondering about what influences a breeder to choose one strain to be the female and one to be the male (after he's already carefully selceted for traits in the two strains he's planning to cross). It was really just an attempt to understand why for example so often strains are cross with Skunk #1. I figure there is a particular reason for that choice and choice similar such as Northern Lights #5 which also ends up on the male side in alot of crosses. If it matters not then why do breeders keep going with the same ones in different crosses?

 

[Baba Ku]

Hempkat you are delusional, plain and simple.

I went back through your help thread and read every word leading up to you starting the name calling. I believe it was "shit for brains".

I invite all to search out my posts in Hempkats old crusty help forum. I think folks need to see just what bol weevil ate the cabbage.
You will also see where blazeoneup was also accosted by the degenerate assholes trolling that thread. Assholes that Hempkat was chastising me for being rude to.

And for your information, the "expert" medal I wore was for being highly proficient with the M16 rifle. I am an expert marksman. I am also an expert pot grower...and don't you forget it, crusty.

 

[inquest]

I think, atleast partially, why we see NL5, SK1, etc. on the male side of the cross is that they are clones that have been proven for passing desirable traits, years ago. Then begged, borrowed, or stolen. If I was selling seeds I'd be lookin for some hot genes, ready to use, not hidden in 5-10 packs of seeds. Even with a 100 beans you still might not find anything with less worked stock.

Well.... my 2 cents, anyway.

 

[HempKat]

Hempkat you are delusional, plain and simple.

I went back through your help thread and read every word leading up to you starting the name calling. I believe it was "shit for brains".

I invite all to search out my posts in Hempkats old crusty help forum. I think folks need to see just what bol weevil ate the cabbage.
You will also see where blazeoneup was also accosted by the degenerate assholes trolling that thread. Assholes that Hempkat was chastising me for being rude to.

And for your information, the "expert" medal I wore was for being highly proficient with the M16 rifle. I am an expert marksman. I am also an expert pot grower...and don't you forget it, crusty.

You're the one that is delussional, your very first post in the thread has you calling people stupid and acting like children. See what a stupid pipshit asshole like you doesn't understand is if you avod using cuss words it doesn't mean you're not still being rude and insulting. You call me stupid, I call you shit for brains, po - tay -toe, po - tah - toe.

The fact of the matter is you were having an argument with someone, in a different thread, or chat, or pm about feminized seed. A person named Stagger Lee. Stagger Lee came to the wanna ask thread and asked for my opinion. Being an opinion it's not right or wrong, it's just what I believe. Then you come along and more or less call everyone stupid and childish but you probably thought you were being nice because you end your post more or less saying "come on, don't let me down, I know you can see it my way."
I know for a fact you were having the arguement you were having because after you came in the thread and started pissing all over everyone who didn't share your opinion and everyone in the thread told you to more or less fuck off, he apologized and told me what was going on.

Of course now that I know you want to inflict violence on people just because they call you a name and you believe people would only do so annonymously behind a computer, it all makes sense. You're probably some big guy who intimidates people just by your appearence and so you've grown up being used to people not talking back to you and telling you what you want to hear. Now you're out here in the real world and you're finding that little trick of you being scary doesn't work and you don't like it. So you want to lash out violently like some two year old having a temper tantrum.

Grow the fuck up!

Oh and so fucking what you're good with a gun, I'm proficient with one too as well as a number of other weapons, what the fuck does that have to do with Breeding or being a "Breeding" Expert?

Hopefully when/if people look, they'll also see I chastised anyone being rude, not just you. In fact I didn't start in on you until I chastised Billy Borroughs first and you kept goading the situation on with unnecessary sarcastic remarks. I even asked you nicely to stop, when you didn't then I went after you. As for Blazeoneup, that was a conversation that ended before you even showed up and while Billy was somewhat rude to him he was able to handle himself just fine and without being insulting like you were. The bottomline is your very first post in the thread, where you offer your 2 cents, you started the rudeness and name calling. People can go back and see it for themselves or they can see where I quoted it earlier in this thread. Being that it was your very first post it was before anyone said a damn word to you personally, so you can just stop trying to pass things off as you being some poor innocent victim. Here I thought you were trying to prove how manly you were with the vailed threats and yet in reality you're behaving like a punk ass bitch.

Oh an what the hell, why make people go look for it? Here's your first post in the Wanna Ask thread, made before anyone there spoke to you (Not counting the person you were arguing with elsewhere)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3871176&postcount=3550

I would like to enter in my two cents here if it's OK.
Many of the arguments I see laid out here against the use of feminized seeds seem to be hinged on the preferences and habits of the person arguing against them, as well as their pre-conceived notions. Not much is actually being discussed about what fem seeds really are.

Arguments have been made that perhaps a person is just lazy and doesn't want to wait until preflowers show. Well, what about the person who grows a whole box or tent full of plants 12/12 from seed? Would fem seeds not be a good thing for them to use?

And what about the field grower? Fem seeds allows a grower to place his plants out in the field, and then come back in the fall to all female plants. He didn't have to make a second (most likely two or three more trips) to get males culled out of his patch.
Oh sure, many may argue he should be using a clone tree or some other method. But that is going back to YOUR preference.

There are lots of good reasons to use fem seeds. And unless someone could show that they were inferior to regular bred seeds then the above arguments are similar to arguing what the best colored containers are.

And many will pop right up and state they can show them inferior. But I would challenge them to prove it. Seems many think that just their thoughts on the matter is proof enough. Heck, some people have had huge rocks thrown at them in this thread for simply stating their opinion and a few facts. Rocks thrown by those who really have no real clues as to what they are talking about. More akin to a kids group, than a group of adults offering sage advise.

Instead of relying on opinion central for all your info, try actually studying the issue for a change. Those who have actually studied the horticulture and genetics of breeding tend to understand these things, and those who haven't make it painfully obvious by their words in these threads.

I won't go deep into it here, but I can tell you for certainty that fem seeds have a great worth in the breeding world, besides the worth they present to the growers.
Fem seeds is a great tool for the professional breeders. Breeders who actually understand the science behind feminized seeds and know it's worth. The breeders also know why you folks fight and argue about the issue too. They know exactly why. But to try and convince some of you is like hitting a brick wall. Even worse in many instances, as many a good person has been trampled by the mean words of the blatantly ignorant.
Just like blazeoneup seeing a great consistency in his plants from fem seeds. There is a good reason for that. And if you folks would actually put on your study caps, instead of continuing to pass on bad info and basic hearsay, then you too would know why he experienced the consistency in the plants that were grown from fem seeds.

Some of you smart old folks try it for yourself if the physical and holdable is all you can really handle. Grow out the regular stock of a reputable breeder and along side of that grow their feminized offering of the same strain. I can almost guarantee you that you will see more consistency in the fem plants, and for good reason too. It is just that you folks don't seem to have info concerning the why's and why not's. It seems everything is based on your opinions and speculation.

To simply state that evolution is the reason we shouldn't use fem seeds is a ridiculous statement to make. It shows me that this person really is just typing and not putting forth much effort to actually type something of worth. Thing is, they are correct in that evolution is key, but they seem to not have any knowledge past that. People that actually know about the genetics of cannabis breeding can show you exactly why and how evolution comes into play. You people throwing these baseless charges out can't even explain what you really mean, let alone the real truth of the issue.
And not knowing what you are talking about hardly gives your the right to throw bad words and baseless charges at others who actually have taken the time to study the subject.

I have seen lots of good info coming out of this thread, and if Hempkat can't answer most likely another older member can.
But when it comes to this issue, it seems to have taken the shape of the other threads that either get shut down, or they fade away into the dust because folks are tired of wasting their good thoughts on the blatantly ignorant. It is especially disheartening to see the dumbass charge get thrown out by dumbasses.Of any place on this board I would like to see wise up, it would be this one. I have respect for us old guys and the experience we can offer up to young and new growers. But when the knowledge turns into the typical ignorant bullshit, it is a big disappointing bummer.I do however have every faith that if the truth is ever to be put out there, it would come from an old cats thread. Please help my optimism to be fruitful. Don't let me down and continue on an ignorant path that any kids could take.FWIW I am a grower that is past 50 years in age, and have been smoking pot since 1972 and growing it nearly as long.